I was wondering why LL store doesn't sell 1000w MH light kits?I built my first Pj in oct '05.When my crappy OHP lamp burnt out after about 60 hours of use I retrieved my 1070w MH grow light from my closet(it was only collecting dust )I then removed the top deck off of my Dukane OHP and mounted it flat on an old coffee table.(had to cut a hole in the table....hope it wasn't genuine shaker)I then flipped the growlight(still in it's enormous 22" metal hood)upside down and slid it under the coffee table.I WAS AMAZED!I have used this setup for two months now without any problems whatsoever.LCD temp tops out at about 104F but most of the time is around 98F.I can see my projected image (116"diagonal 4:3)extremely clearly even in a brightly(very brightly)lit room.My 1000w has a color temp of 5200k and approx 119,000 mean lumens.So where are all the 1000w projector builders?And is the LL store planning on stocking 1000w lamp kits anytime soon?My Pj,although very bright and vivid,could use a more compact 1000w MH.My current bulb(M47 type)is the size of a football and the 22" hood...arghh don't even get me started.All in all,I am very pleased with my results and I will never go back to 400w as a source.Not knocking you guys who use the good 'ol 400watter.It's an excellent lamp for most,but I have ALOT of ambient light coming in from my picture windows(southern exposure)and a 400w just won't do for my needs.I know some of you 1000w junkies are out there so let's hear from you! Until then I'll be enjoying my 1000w MH nirvana.

I have often wondered if there is an upper limit to the scalalbility of DIY pj's. 119000 vs 30000 lumens = 4x the brightness, assuming all that extra light is transmitted. That would make the image 4x brighter on the same sized screen, or you could increase your screen size by 1.5x and keep the same brightness and you had with a 400w bulb.

Correct?

The reason you dont see people with 1000W lamps is because they are too large. The arc center is sooo big that you can get all the light to hit the triplet. so alot of the gained light is theoretically lost

Id still however be curious to see some images if you have any.

Sounds good to me.Looks like you've done your homework.I am not using a reflector at the moment so i'm still losing quite a bit of light.Still,though,the image produced is absolutely stunning.I'm working on a reflector design specifically for the large 1000w MH m47 type bulb I'm using.I think I would rather have my projection 4x brighter than bigger because of screen-door effect,but if your monitor's rez is high enough I would say go big as you can.

I don't have any pics at the moment.I've ordered a kodak easyshare 5.something megapixel digicam(because everyone I chat with wants to see the screen pics and I could use a good camera for ebay listings anyway).I'll post some pics as soon as it arrives.Check back in a day or two.I'm trying to designing an efficient reflector/condenser setup for the bulb also.The bulb is big,but for the massive difference in light output and image quality,I'm more than willing to have a slightly larger enclosure.You are correct though,someone needs to design a sleeker,smaller 1000w MH lamp.Something with an arc center way smaller than 6" or whatever this behemoth is.

here comes Rox again whit the same stupid question;

have you got a luxmeter? could you ask someone one? I would like to know how many lumens are you looking to

My dad's got a good luxmeter.He's an electrical engineer.I'll borrow it tomorrow and post the results.

"In the pursuit of knowledge,no question is an ignorant question"...E. A. Robards 1874

great,

how many lumens would you say you are looking to in your opinion?

(my bet is there are not more than 300)

I'm not quite sure but I cannot look at some scenes(the bright ones)in total darkness without squinting my eyes.It just plain hurts.I would say it's much more than 300 lumens.Maybe around 1500 in the very center of the screen.It is definately brighter than my 27"CRT TV.I'll get some side by side comparison shots when my camera comes in.

ok, i should have asked more about your setup befor beting any value...

sorry for that.

could you tell me the rough parts involved on your setup?... arc size... fresnells... lcd... triplet...

BTW, Philips makes a 2000W bad-boy! Better put your sunglasses on!

I don't know the exact arc size...somewhere around 5-6".I'm using a single rear fresnel that came with my Dukane 4000 OHP(don't know the focal length)-lcd is an old gateway FPD 1500 15"1024x768 .29dot pitch 200:1 contrast ratio(going to upgrade due to screen door and contrast ratio)my triplet is a 327mmx80mm Dukane OHP triplet.My lamp is approx 15" from my fresnel.The fresnel is 3/4"from my lcd and my lcd is 13" from my triplet.My screen is 116" diag@4:3 and is 12 feet away from my triplet(white painted(latex flat ceiling white)smooth drywall with black foam masking).I have a LL lens kit on the way as well as an R2D2 full scale replica that my brother built which I will be using as my enclosure.My lamp setup is just a typical 1070w MH growlight with the very heavy non-solid state ballast.Hope this info helps.

Look forward to seeing your pics.

ok here is my new bet:

i bet there are closer to 300 lumens than to 1500

tools will say anyway thanks for your work

Thanks pagercam.check back in a day or two

Thanks Rox,I'll try to get you some exact measurements on the lumens tomorrow.I love my Pj.DIY Kicks A$$

That sounds very interesting!I wear my sunglasses at night.I think I'm going to check in with philips.Do you know the price of the setup?

Are we going for pink slips?I have a '73 Charger in pristine condition.

No way will the lumen output only be 300. It would have to be the most ineffecient setup on the planet to go from 119,000 lumens to 300. Even our current projecters arnt that bad (ratio wise) and they are pretty bad to be honest.

I'd like to see pics.

GG at diyaudio meassured 52 ansi lumens once

his was 250W and a process lens projection lens... rare.

the arc on this lamp (1KW) is quite long as he says... after the magnification of fresnells and the 62mm triplet aperture.... this will result in a poor efficiency...

yes, my bet is very low, I recongtnize it... tomorrow well see.

supra said 450 yesterday

but supra's setup is unique.

(pro reflector, 100mm projection lens, 17", 27mm arc)

this one here is no reflector, stimated 80mm arc, 15" and 62mm lens
anyway, can´t we wait 1 day?

So a pro reflector and a 400 watt bulb, are 4x more lumen effecient then just a 1000w bulb alone.

Rox, come on

calm down.

I said initially 300 lumens with no idea what setup he had. Then I corrected my bet to closer to 300 than to 1500 lumens.

anyway it is just a personal bet, what the hell does it care?
well see what lumens are there soon, no more assumtions and guessing needed.

I don't know. The more I read the more skeptical I get. I'ld like to keep an open mind..and I'd love to think there were ways to improve our current setup, but some of the things I'm hearing just don't add up.

1) 1070w MH light with 5 to 6" arc giving more light to the lcd than a 400w MH with a 1" arc.

2) An lcd with only 1 polarizer

There is just something...."off"...about this.

Hopefully, I am wrong.

mmm, i must have jumped that info....

where did 5-6" inch arc come from? .... better question; what lamp is it?

Thats one mighty arc

The 5"-6" inch arc was just a guesstimate based on looking at my replacement bulb.the bulb type is a M47 Metal Halide and the light setup came from greentrees hydroponics,Vista California.sorry about the confusion.

Hey,Lucky me,Picks will be coming very shortly.My dad's coming over this evening with the luxmeter and his digital camera.I've ordered a camera but seeing as how everyone wants to see the pics I'll have to borrow my dad's.It's all good.

most 875 or 1000 watt lights are 80mm or so arc length..... would his different(OHP unsplit) fresnel help?(re longer FL rear fresnel affecting arc image size)

Theoretically, we have always exhausted using bigger lamps than the 400W flavor because of arc size. I understand why, but that theoretical decision is based on one assumption. What if that assumption is flawed. I will describe it now. Im NOT in anyway shape or form saying this is the case, just saying it might be a possibility.

Fresnel wants a point source of light, in which a 1000w bulb, nor our 400W bulb provide.

Now, the arc of the 1000W bulb is TOO big to fit inside the triplet (I believe he has an OHP, which I believe is a bigger lense, singlet lens perhaps) Anyway not the point.

Of this bigger arc, lets say its 100mm for easy guessing, comparied to 50mm for a 400W lamp. These arent real numbers, Im just using it for illustrative purposes.

The triplet is only ~60mm, so we can fit all of the 400W lamps arc into the triplet, its a tight squeeze but can be done.

With the 1000W lamp, we could only fit 60mm of the 100mm into the triplet. Now, here comes the assumption. Are we just assuming that the 60mm out of 100mm on the 1000W bulb to put out as much light as the 60mm of the 400W lamp.

That sentence was probably hard to understand, and its difficult to describe. I dont have time to doing a drawing right now or I would.

My point is, is that we only look at the LENGTH/WIDTH of the arc, to see if it fits inside the triplet. What about the thickness/depth of the arc. We may only get 60% of the 1000W's arc into the triplet, but what if that 60% is alot brighter than the 400W. We couldnt use a reflector, but honestly if we can get 70,000 or so of the 120,000 lumens, who cares about a reflector

Clearly we have always dispelled the use of these large lamps, but when that kitaruSapien(sp) guy was working with a 1500W lamp we all were curious, just as we are now.

I am gonna put out a hypothesis here, maybe one that's way off base.

We haven't seen the setup yet. I am wondering if elbeghast even employs a rear fresnal for collimating his light. If not then maybe that may explain both the longer arclength and the missing rear polarizer. If his bulb puts out polarized light (I dunno, just hypothesizing here) and the longer arclength sufficiently covers the lcd with collimated light then far more light would be reaching the lcd than our setups. Now, this would produce a very hot spot which elbeghast seemed to allude to in one of his posts, but it may be possible. Even if the collimated light is not parrallel, it may still be focused onto the triplet with the condensing fresnal simply by trial and error (move the condensing fresnal back and forth).

elbeghast,

Could you provide an sketch of your lense layout. This will give use more information to go on.

Thanks

Another thing to keep in mind is that those aquarium lights are not designed for maximum light output. I have seen some 400W aquarium bulbs that put out only 19,000 lumens. So a 1,000W aquarium bulb does not necessarily mean he's putting out 80,000+ lumens.

if its a normal OHP fresnel, its either 2 fresnels bonded together(the original meaning of "unplit" ) or possibly a dual focus fresnel.... either way, from the "super light engine thread" the rear fresnel can be a longer length to fit a larger arc into the triplet (I think...can't remember which numbers you make a ration of.... front/rear, rear/triplet...whatever) which is why arizonavideo is using like 550mm fresnels etc with the ellipsoidals

Actually,my triplet is 327mm focal length x80mm wide and is indeed a triplet(3 lenses).
If the arc length on most 1000w lamps is 80mm then that would explain the extreme light output from my projector.I still don't know the focal length of my fresnel but my guess is that the lamp is very closely aligned with my fresnel's focal length.I guess I could measure the distance between the two with my S.A.E. tape measure and then convert to mm to get my approximate focal length.....Yes,it worked!My fresnel is 330mm(I'm only .2mm off the focal length)exactly 13" between my lamp and fresnel.
Thanks Mikyd1954!....now if I can only figure out why that panel is still working without the rear polarizer...hmmm....

Sure let me get out the old pad and pencil.May take a little while.Oh and I am definately using a rear fresnel.It's the original fresnel that came with my OHP,although I've scrapped most of the original projector.Just using the important parts.

Thats relatively true except for the fact that the arc is WAY to big for the triplet, and so a lot of light will be lost. This is why Brain is getting new bulbs with smaller arcs. The best setup would be a bulb with a very very small arc and a large lumen output. I 'd guess about 600-800 lumens he is getting.

The overhead i used, had a 330mm rear focal, which although dimmer overall, provided a much more uniform lighting

ok...from the aforementioned thread("super light engine...)
"two 330mm fresnels would be a front to rear ratio of 1 to 1 or let you use a 62mm lamp" ...
sooo..... if you have a 330mm rear fresnel and the same front fresnel(though yours are unsplit) that should let you use 62mm of arc of your 80mm arc....giving you possibly twice as much or maybe 2.5x as much light(normal arc being 27mm?) too bad dazzlas asleep(I'm guessing) or he could check that...not sure if this applies , but it certainly would explain your brightness.... guess that would put it in the range of maybe 500-600 lumens ?

and you're right, those M47 bulbs are freakin huge..... the wife would never approve of this in the living room...sigh.... but it would make a nice space heater in the lab ;-)

Here is a very crude sketch of my Pj.It doen't look like much now but just wait till I put all the guts into my R2D2 replica.My current setup is a very simple design that packs a mighty wallup!Oh,another thing,I have absolutely no glass or any other barrier between my fresnel and my lamp.My fresnel is directly over my(gets too hot too stock in the LL store)1000w lamp(no offense Brainchild )and in two months of almost continuos operation,I have not had any problems whatsoever with heat.No melting fresnel,No burnt up lcd,absolutely no problems at all.And my lamp is a grow light not an aquarium light.I'm not sure if there is a difference since I have never had any experience with aquarium lighting.Just to let you know I bought this Light rig from a hydroponics supply company.Thanks Guys!! Hope this crappy sketch of an excellent projector helps out.Click to view attachment

Pictures of actual projector, Images and images in ambiant light?

Your pretty good at math.I'm one of those move it around till it looks good and then measure it kind of people(Much to the dismay of my electrical engineering father)Oh well.
Yeah what's up with all those sleeping aussies' they are missing all the good stuff!;)

in time joe


I own two dukane 4003's , those are nice projecters

As soon as my dad gets off work I'll post em.He has the camera and test equipment.

I really like the 80mm triplet too.Dukane is pretty good stuff.

I butchered mine in the exact same way as yours, but i put a 400 watt under it in a box.


This was before i moved on to the Haas construction.

I'm horribly jealous. I wanted to be the first to put my PJ into an R2-D2 enclosure. How dare you steal my idea! And have one already built to boot! :angry: ...Wow! What an emotional rollercoaster. Oh well...I can't have the geekiest projector on the forums after all. :sigh: I'm going to put on my wookee outfit and go sulk in my full scale mock-up of the millenium falcon.