Hello all,

First of all thanks for visiting my PLOG. The plan is to update this along every step of my adventure. Hopefuly all of you will keep visiting as I plan on posting questions/revelations/etc pertaining to my project as I go along.

Now, for a quick story on how I got interested in this project. I am a computer engineering student at Cal Poly. My lab partner for a class that I am taking this quarter has started a PJ of his own. I was over his apt. to work and got to see the thing at work. It is a little bit of a ghetto rigged OHP projector. Although it's quality was not fantastic due to bad light source (hes going to upgrade to MH soon), and old dingy lenses on the HCP, I was immediatley hooked. Long story short I now spend 4-5 hours a day in the LL forums and am starting to get a good idea of what I want.

Heres my goals:

- Use 17" with Pro lense kit
- 400 W MH light source
- Custom enclosure
- DIY screen (possibly support pyro with his daytime-watchable paint)

Heres what Im still deciding:

-LCD monitor or TV? (questions regarding this below)
- HTPC or scaler (or possibly just the lcd tv tuner)

I am going to order the pro kit tonight and while Im waiting for it, figure out everything else.

I want to say ahead of time thanks to any and all who help me throughout this process. Part of what is getting me so excited is the great attitudes, knowledge, and enthusiasm of the LL community.

HERE WE GO !!


Below are a few initial questions that I have. The sooner these can get ironed out the better as most relate to equipment that I need to purchase.

1. I know I want to go 17" for the resolution. What I am deciding is whether to get a monitor or tv. First, are there any compiled lists for compitble LCD TVs? I have been looking through the main list post and am not seeing any 17" lcd tvs listed. If anyone has made a pj with one or could point me to a post that would be great.

2. If i go the tv route, will the tuner be sufficient qulaity wise for cable/game/dvd playback?

3. If I go the HTPC route the pc will be in a different room. Is cable length (> 25 ft) going to affect image qulaity greatly?

4. With an HTPC how hard/expensive would it be to get HDTV going through it?

Thats all for now.

I am excited to get started on this. The payoff for all you that help me will be lots of screens along the way. I want you guys to feel involved, every step of the way. My roomates are sceptical that the thing will even work never the less look good. HELP ME PROVE THEM WRONG

Good Luck with your project. I am waiting to see how you built your before I start, thanks for the lead in.

OK, a bit of an update:

Items I have purchased

- Pro Lense Kit (still waiting patiently )
- Phillips 17" Widescreen LCD TV specs here

Items still to get

- Lighting Kit (most likely LL pulse kit)
- Electrics
- Box Supplies


Also,

Today I went to my campus surplus shed and was able to get a free broken LCD. I sripped it and am currently working on AG removal. This was great practice and will give me much more confidence gutting my $380 lcd tv. The following post has some pictures. I know they dont really show how I dissasembled but I figure it might help someone.

BTW, the monitor was a DELL 1710FP. I tried powering it and it just turns off and on repeatedly. If someone knows how to repair this problem please let me know. I could use it as a prelim PJ or even maybe return the lcd tv.

Pics of the stripping of a broken DELL 1710FP

continued ...










Slight FFC issue here as hightlighted. I assume an extension could take care of this?




What the Heck is this metallic clear paper (was behind the LCD between the backlight and lcd) Not a polarizer I hope...






Also One more question: Right now the LCD is prety black, hardly any light shines through. Is this because it is off or broken? Other pics I have seen show the lcd as much more translucent.

More updates to come with AG removal, and of course, when my real PJ stuf come in.

Ok heres some pics showing som AG removal stuff.

A few notes:

After a 4 hour soak the AG is coming off quite easy in most areas, only the very edges are acting up. They didnt have direct contact with the paper towel so I'm sure that is why. On my real display I think am am going to use more of a sponge type cloth that I can cut to fit and wont expand. Anyhow, on with the show.






You can see the edges here are getting caught.

Ok, after another 2 hours soaking time the other corner came off perfectly, one sheet. So the lesson here is if the corner doesnt pick right up, soak longer. Pics will come tommorow when I am less drunk and can hold the camera straight. Off to the bars. Last weekend of the 70th anniversary of a local pub ( $1 domestic, $2.50 jack and coke !!!!) See ya in two days .

Got home from class and guess what was on my table?

PRO LENSE KIT !!!!

Just been looking at them and messing with them a little (with gloves on). Which fresnel is which? Thicker = longer FL or the other way around?

Thanks for the help

Brian

Yo Brian. I've seen more than one post about how to tell the fresnels apart but after spending about 10 minutes of what I thought was intelligent searching I came up dry. :angry: Yet another argument for our tweaks topic?! When you find this we'll add it to our topic. Guess I should check the wiki thingie? Later . . .

Da wiki be where it were!!!

Cheers dude!

Thanks for the link, Durachko. Never knew about the wiki. We should definitely link that bad boy to the Tweaks thread.

New update today:

Just purchased PS light kit from LL, should be shipping soon. The LCD TV is on it's way as we speak. Probably going to pick up an XBOX 360 today. This gonna hurt the credit card a bit, but I got a birthday (thnx grandma) and a paycheck coming up and I'm too excited to wait. I'm a college kid anyhow so I dont have family bills to worry about.

Updates coming as soon as equipment comes in. Gonna start lightbox as soon as the kit comes in.

I assume you're going with a horizontal design? I just reread this topic but either missed it or it's not explicitly stated.

Quick Update:

Picked up an Xbox 360 from coscto a few days ago. Also, my LCD TV came in. Had some problems a first because aparently on this TV, the component hook-ups do not support HD signals. This may be a problem form some people so if you are looking at an LCD TV for your projo, make sure that the connections you plan on using will do what you think they will. For my purposes this is not a big deal. I can use the HDMI for HD cable tv, and the vga connector for the xbox. Since this covers gaming, movies, and tv I'm good to go.

A quick review of the Philips 17PF4996 (i think thats the number, cheack earlier post). Fired up with the xbox connected and in 720p mode this thing looks really good. The text is crisp, the colors are great, there is absolutely no ghosting while playing DOA4 or PGR3. I was actually really surprised. I was able to go to the zero hour xbox realease event and they had about 500 LCD tvs with xbox's hooked up. I played all the games and both me and my roomate noticed that on their TVs, the games seemed to be missing something. I have seen xbox's in action on my roomates CRT HDTV and this LCD looks just as good imo. The dvd playback on the xbox looks ok. Not as good as on my parent plasma tv, but it is definitely not too bad. I still havent tweaked settings and whatnot, so this may improve. I will be renting nemo and 5th element to get an idea of color, sharpness, etc. before I rip the TV apart.

All that I am waiting for at this point is the Pulse bulb from LL. I doubt I will get any construction done this weekend with projects due and the super bowl. Hopefully by next weekend I will have some construction pics to post.


regards all,

Brian


P.S. Duracho, It is going to be a horizontal straight path design, with the box tailored to be the smallest form factor possible, and built out of alluminum for weight reduction. I will have some design pics up soon. i just didnt want to waste time designing until I new the measurements of everything going inside the thing.


P.P.S Sorry for any grammer or spelling errors, I have to run to a midterm so I did not review the post.

Hey when you get that screen taken apart can you provide some detailed measurements of the size. I have the same screen and I am still planing the build. Picture of the stripping process would be great too if you get the chance.

Thanks

Sure thing.

Also, there is a thread in the product reviews section detailing this TV. Several of us have bought one and you will most likely find what you need there. Either that or youll find someone who has already stripped.

The standard Component inputs do not support HD. However, the with right adapter, the vga input does.
edit: oops, you said that.

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Hey wooz, are you using that cable from monoprice? Does it work on your set? I just bought one from them and am anxious to try it.

Yes, It works fine if the set is designed to accept component video through the vga connection, but it wont work on most VGA monitors.

Ok, heres a quick rough draft I came up with as the starting block idea for my box. Keep in mind that it is in no way to scale. Its merly the base idea I will be starting with when I start to take measurements of the different components.

One thing to note that is a bit different from other boxes. The main idea is to make the lightbox seperate from the main box. Then the main box will slide over top of the light box. This will give me my bulb-fresnal adjustability. Please feel free to comment on things you think may work or things that I should not waste my time on. I appreciate any and all feedback.

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Thanks,
Brian

I like it!
You can never have too much adjustability.
I know it isnt drawn to scale,the only poss problem that I can see is that with the lamp in the vertical position,your box will be quite a bit taller than the lcd's height,it is not very space efficient,but should give you alot of room in there to play around with!
Nice work .

Its not very space efficient, but Simul8r showed you get better brightness uniformity with the bulb vertical to the panel.

If I end up going diagonal with the bulb for space this will give me two brighter corners and two dimmer ones?

Hi.cpsubrian
Mine is diagonal,no dim corners here,(apart from in the photos,of course! )
However for Ver2 I will be going vertical...Infinite choices I am afraid.
It is up to you,if you are not that worried about saving space,go vertical with a taller box!
For performance go vert,it is more important to be happy with the performance of your pj,than to have a nice looking box with a poor picture!

Thats my 50 cents worth,anyway!
Cheers P

Well, a better performance perhaps but with the addition of precondenser lens such as a 4.5", 6.5 FL from Surplus Shed for a 15" panel then you will see a better uniformity with the bulb PERPENDICULAR to the LCD panel especially to the sides and corners.

cspubrain, I like your design, quite unique. Theres only 2 things that I might advise you on since my first lightbox looks similar to your concept. The air entrance under your precondenser lens, you might be bringing down the lens closer to the bulb (once you find the right lens for your 17" panel) and this may hinder a lot of air to be able to cool your lens and your bulb. With two fans (depending on their cfm) you might be needing more air supply going in then going out. My lens was untouchable in my first box but the current second on is only warm. Secondly, I understand that your blocking light from emitting from your box by placing a blocker behind your fans but this causes a little more restriction for the air to exit. As a suggestion, place your fans inside your lightbox with another chamber seperating an offset exhaust for the air to escape and help for light leaks. Just my observation only.

Good point,SIM.And placing the fans internally should minimise noise too!

Ok SIM,

Is this kinda what you were getting at. In this version I would ditch the sliding main box idea and just make the inner lightbox movable. Would airflow be better this way?



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Thanks,
Brian

I hope you don't mind if I borrowed your drawings and show some modification of my suggestion. I'm assuming we are looking at your pj from the side since I've noticed you'll be keystoning. I've also noticed your supply opening for air is underneath your box which is alright if your planning on raising it.

You'll notice I've shown how the flow of air will passes over your lens and underneath it. By allowing another entrance for air next to your lens will allow sufficient air to compensate since I'm sure you will be lowering the lens to capture the proper cone of light for your panel thereby plugging the hole. When lowering your lens you start to sufficate the fans to pull out efficiently and this will result to overheating of the lens possibly cracking it or seriously discoloring it. Also, if not cooling the bulb enough could also discolor the arc as well (if you noticed in precondenser test thread I described this). If your fan on the lightbox is strong enough you may not need another fan to exhuast the air out of your box. Just create another chamber with exhaust port/s for air to escape. It looks cool with fans showing, I agree, but as pun15her also said this will muffle out the noise it makes.

Here we have ver. 3 of the rough draft where I have implemented some of SIMS suggestions. Do you guys think that the lightbox exhaust coupled with the fact the the whole box is aluminum and acts as a heat sink will keep the condenser and LCD cool enough?


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cpsubrian, this was exactly how my first light box looked until I wanted to channel the flow of air directly across and over the arc of the bulb. That’s the main source of the heat issue. If you do like this approach then just make sure that you compensate a good supply of air both sides of the lens. My philosophy is attack the source directly and shoot it out before it harms anything else around it. I noticed you place again right-angled blockers going out of the box (tail end), in this case if you prefer this then angle them as I've shown. Remember air is like water, a straighter shot out the faster the stream. When you add opposing blockers you slow it down considerably and create vortexes and this slows down the removing of heat as well.

Ok SIM,

So your main concern still left was the light blocker greatly effecting air flow? Would an exhaust setup like this help stop light without too much air constriction?


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Thanks for all your help,
Brian

SIM,

looking at your picture again, I do like that fact that the air is forced along the surface of the Condenser because the ait comes from below but the intake is on top. I think I will reposition the fans a little and remove one intake to get close to this effect.

Also, I am still heavily considering using the bulb diagonal, just so my box can be sleeker and sexier. But, having said that I also want the best possible picture I can get.

Decisions, decisions....

Anothe idea for airflow...

Instead of straight exhausts with light blockers, what about airduct type exhuasts that curve to the sides. This has multiple benfits: No weird angled blockers, Side exhaust in case I dont always have it ceiling mounted, More easily scalable.

Thoughts?


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This will work too. Just make sure there is no kink when bringing your lightbox back. Now, your on your way, good luck.

This is why I like the vertical build up. Less of a footprint size and still maintain a sexier look . And lets face it, which will your audience be watching mostly...your box or your projection. Come to think about it if you have seen my plog of my first build which did you find better, the projection or my hacked up Haas?

Thanks again SIM,

I think I will go with a slightly modified version of your cooling (mainly 2 fans since it will hopefully be my sole source of suction) with the air duct exhaust. Hopefully my light comes in by friday so I can get lightbox done over weekend. It helps to have an Architectural Engineering roomate who is taking welding class (specifically doing aluminum welding ). Once I do Ill be sure to upload plenty of pics, temp readings, etc.

Sorry, no witty poems though. I'm no english major.

,Brian

EDIT: I think I will make a new icon too. The warcraft 3 panda is starting to annoy even me

Tonights Update:

Bulb and Ballast came in mail. Soldered up and plugged in and its going, but I am getting the flickering described by others. Been searching and havent found a concrete answer on what this is and if it will actually go away. Been going 1.5 hours, gonna let it go till about 3-3.5, then I gotta get some sleep. Other than the flicker I am impressed. Very birght and much whiter than I anticipated (although I really have no reference).

On another note I updated my avatar to be a little more personal. Wasnt sure what to do so just mixed by school and one of my top 5 movies into one. (I know QOTD is not technically that great of a film, I just dig ann rice, vampires, and strangly the music as well).

Oh well, on friday when I have some time (DAY OFF SCHOOL !!!) I'll begin designing (for real ... in CAD) and building my light engine.

Until Then,
Peace,
Brian

Alrighty, close to a 4 hour burn and still flicker. Best I can tell from 1/2 sec glances with sunglasses on (this thing is bright) is the arc is bending and moving around inside the chamer. I have it verticle ( well mostly) and running in the garage. Ambient temb is probably mid 50s. There are color, brightness, and arc position variations (ie. "the flicker") a few times a second (sometimes with a few seconf break). I can't run it anymore tonight but I can turn it on again tommorrow if these PS bulbs simply need longer burnin. Anyhow, if anyone has had the same troubles (or purhaps no troubles) with the PS bulb, plz let me know. Forum surfing hasnt yeilded any usefull results yet. Also, one last thing. All wires were soldered fairly well, although admittedly not tested. Ballast was on the concrete rougly 5 feet from bulb. No wires crossing.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. i hope I have given a complete enough description as to help us sleuth through this. I look forwards to getting my light engine and maybe more done this weekend and just need to figure out is this bulb has an issue or what?

Thanks all,
Brian

Speaking only from experience (well . . . so far, anyway ) with microscope UV sources (which are similar to these MH projector lights) I always do a 5 hour burn-in when we put a new bulb in our scope. The arc in these puppies is never "rock-solid" and I suspect it cannot ever be totally stable due to the nature of the beast. This is interesting stuff though Brian and I look forward to seeing what results I get when the time comes.

I also look forward to your results. I am hoping that some additional burn time, or perhaps trying it horizonal may help. Still, however, looking for some more concrete answer if one is out there.

Thanks,
Brian

I had the same problem and the flicker went away after running it horizontally. I am having other un related problems getting it to strike however...

Are you using the eballast or a core & coil?

eballast

What about burning in the bulb for the first time using a coil ballast and then reverting to the e-ballast for regular operation? Anyone approach problem that way?

Good news guys!! I let the bulb run horzontal for about 6 hours today and it was rock solid the whole time. Even shadows on the house 25 feet away didnt move at all. Once the bulb cools down I will switch back to vertical and see if the problem is gone.

cpsubrian, did you have it standing pointing up or down? I wonder if for a new bulb does it make a difference

SIM,
I had it pointing up for initial tests.


I just restarted it vertical (after a 30 min wait) so we shall see how this test goes. I will say that at least during startup it reverted back to flickeryness. We'll give a an hour or so and see. For now, here is my ghetto testing wiring job. Wires are soldered and taped. Also Heres a pic of right after startup (sorry for shaky picture).

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interesting... are you running the S400DD or T15?

Ok finally verdict, at least for now, is that I will have to go horizontal. Dont know if it's bad bulb, bad wiring, nothing bad.... After about 2 hours more of vertical it was still flickering. With the light still on I flipped it to horizontal and the flickering stopped.. Weird huh?

On a brighter note I ordered some cooling stuff, wiring stuff, vga cable (25 ft), vga switch, vga-component, and optical audio cable. All I need now is the box materials and I should be able to get started. Also have HD cable getting installed on friday. (actually, roomate already has it I just needed to upgrade the box).

So... for the time being I will be designing my horizontal light engine until someone figures out whats going on, or, I try a new bulb, or, the better point source lights come out and I upgrade.

Either way, the bulb is bright and I should have decent results. I will just have to plan for a bit of a light engine upgrade later (including the condenser).

Cheers,
Brian

T15