Sharp WUXGA antiglare removal and stripping attempt

I thought I would start a thread for the Sharp WUXGA panel to gather information based on Marks water rag method and help others (if successful) who wish to strip and remove the antiglare from this type of panel. First of all, this panel has antiglare and is not the antireflective type. The screen is blurry. I will not attempt to remove layers on the back yet.

Remove outer metal frame

I am only going to remove the outer metal frame and leave the FFC and electronics where they are, to keep them protected. this will hopefully protect them from accidents during the antiglare removal.

Outer metal frame


FFC's protected under tape and plastic


Water soak (based on infomation from Marks guide, please comment on this if I have forgotten anything)
Cut out a piece of cloth or kitchen towel 1mm on all sides smaller than the panel. Soak the rag in distilled water and rinse so its not dripping wet and lay on the panel evenly. Apply further drops of water on the cloth in five positions, middel lower left, right, upper left right to keep the distribution of water even. Every couple of hours keep checking if a corner will flip up and wait longer if nessesary (12h). Remove the cloth, and wipe the panel dry with a cloth. Then try and pull up a corner if it comes up with ease then apply cellotape around all corners of the panel overlapping the edge about 1mm, apply further cellotape from one corner to the other (cross). if successful clean panel with damp cloth and wait 24hours to dry before connecting.

Before I attempt this I need to read Marks posts so I am 100% sure what I am pulling up. Aniglare or Polar bear?

If I understand the whole procedure correctly the water method should just loosen the layer between the antiglare and the polarizer, the polarizer should not pull up with this method. I will try and post a picture of each stage when i attempt this. Dont expect results any time soon, i need to be 100% confident in this.

Heat sheild tape removed


Removed 5 of these tiny screws along the sides

I love you man! Thank you so much for doing this and DOCUMENTING it! I can already tell you're going to document this well, and I have a feeling that if this panel can be stripped of a/g, you'll do it. I'm rooting for you! (And maybe sending a prayer or two to any deity that will listen... )

The antiglare had to soak 10 hours before it would come off on mine. I tried to remove it at various different intervals and it wouldn't even budge until the 4th hour, and then it just tore off in small pieces. After the full 10 hours it peeled off very easily.

It was a brand new Sharp panel and not a used one.

Oh and by the way, be very careful of those ffc's. Seems as if they are VERY easy to mess up.

Is this the same 15.4" Sharp as jonjandrans? If so, then I wouldn't touch those brightness enhancement films on the back. They are going to cut out about 16%+- of your panel transmittance, but if we can find a way to utilize their purpose (recycle their reflections) then you definitely want to keep them on. For that panel to have a reflective polarizer is impressive. Not a huge surprise as 3M does manufacture them for that purpose. I would just do the front for now.

Your plan sounds about right. Especially the reinforcement part. The only warning I have is that the paper towel will enlarge, so you need to soak it before, then lay it on. Otherwise it will spill water over the edge ([b]GAH![/i]). And my second suggestion is that you give it plenty of time, and take your time. Make sure it is supported on a soft surface and that you are grounded as best as possible (don't walk around mid peel up or disassembly).

I have to say it is a bit unfortunate that we won't be getting a before and after out of this one.

The other recommendation is to make sure that no matter what you relax. This isn't rocket science. If it goes to plan you won't believe how easy it is. If things start going wrong just slow down and consider your options. There is almost always a backup plan.

And you don't want to peel it up at the exact moment that it seems ready. I'm starting to think that it was a mistake to let people figure out the correct time themselves. As it stands, we have no proof that there is such a thing as an over-soak. It seems damage can only be done with an under-soak (which in general always seems to be less than 10 hours). I wish we had suggested initially that everyone wait 12 hours before trying to peel it up. Then we would have more data as to wether that is a safer thing to do. My guess is that is probably the way to go, but amazingly it is still just a guess (everyone seems to peel as soon as they deem it ready = always less than 12 hours).

One thing that I have noticed is that if you give it a good long time, there is literally nothing worth cleaning up. The gooey surface dries up perfectly smooth (as long as you don't touch it).

And make sure you don't get any air bubbles and that there is a good amount of saturation (but no water over the edge of the anti-glare of course).

One last thing: If you ever find yourself using force, stop and ask what's going on. Unfortunately we have no good explanations of how little force it takes. It is something like peeling up a really lousy wet sticker. Just remember that the PVA is a layer about the thickness of a layer of tissue paper. Don't apply any more force then you think that could take.

Hope that helps,
Mark.

Yes thats the same panel, same model number LQ154M1LW02 . Thanks for the tip on the brightness enhancement films on the back. Does this apply to which way the panel faces the light? Im going for a folded design so the antiglare will face the lamp, but i it can face the other way too, brightness enhancement films facing lamp, the contoller has hardware hor.ver. mirroring of the image.



Thats good to know, I will probably use 4 sheets of paper towel so the position can be adjusted. I will be using an antistatic band on a wooden floor. The panel will lay under an antistatic bag and under a soft cloth.



Yes, i really would have liked to see the comparison myself, but i consider it an extra risk to do it later.
I have heard many times that removing the antiglare increases sharpness, i guess the extra sharpness would benefit with this high res panel. What i can do if it all goes well, would be to do before and after shots with the panel's back light on. I havent seen results like that on the forum.



I going to give this panel plenty of time, i will not try and remove anything until 12hours are up or longer. As for little force in pulling up the antiglare layer, i can only imagine its like removing wallpaper if its been out in the rain for a couple of days. Thanks for all your advice mark. if it does go wrong we will allways learn from it, ill just have to do some overtime and get a new panel.

Next up, going to remove the metal frame and have a look too see what im dealing with. Pictures to come

Yes i can imagine that, ill take my time. I hope you can fix or get a new panel jonjandran

I’ve read some other striping guides on this panel and its mentioned to remove all the tape from the FFC's. I don’t think that’s a good idea because you can damage the FFC's by pulling the tape off . You can take a sharp knife and slice horizontally along the tape. Don’t cut into the tape because that’s where the FFC's are.

Cut along tape


Lifting up the tape reveals the delicate FFC's, Now i see why they mean don’t touch. Those contacts are very very small

Brutuz

I'd reccommend you put electrical tape on both sides of the FCCs like so. Makes them much stronger. Did this to my BenQ and I'm glad I did.

There is also a plastic sheet that protects some FFC's at the side of the panel. I just cut the plastic along what looks like scissor marks on the otherside of the panel, (white plastic side) Then the metal frame just lifted up with no effort


Some makro shots of the panel

Thanks for the tip FLY CRJ, just normal electrical tape will do? i was wondering about the conductivity of the tape

I find a good quality tape to work the best. The cheaper kinds seem to dry up and get really plasticy when it gets hot. I think I used 3M.

I might go for the rag method tomorrow morning. Before i do that i will check out an idea I have had in the back of my head. I’m thinking of putting down some plain paper on the panel about 0.5 from the edge. Then kitchen towel on top of that to keep it saturated. The idea is to get closer to the edge with the paper than you could with a paper towel. The paper will not expand. The kitchen towel would lay 1mm around the sides the paper.

Excellent work so far Brutuz, more power to you. I have faith that you will succeed in this mod since it seems you have done your homework and read in all that involves and especially the warnings. Has the thread 'Antiglare Story, Indexed' helped you do your research?
sim

Hi SIM, thats exactly what i used 'Antiglare Story, Indexed' . I hope it will succeed, biggest worry i guess is what i pull up but i will just have to take my time and see what happens

Don't get me wrong, I have no knowledge of this, But it seems to me that having something that expands and contracts with heat (doesn't it?) bonded to your FFC's could be a problem over time. I suppose if you lay the tape down without stretching it at all it could be a good thing. But it just sounds risky to me.

edit those are some great shots Brutuz. As long as the paper doesn't hold the water back too much, it sounds like a good idea. Could be easier to keep your eye on as well.

I tried some laser printer paper, you are right it does hold back the water. Had it running under the tap for a couple of minutes and the water did not seep through. Laser printer paper is coated with something. Need to find some cheaper paper or i'll just use the towel.

Brutuz,,,, all the success to you !!!

Here some pictures of the soak. 5 hours soaking sofar another 7 to go



Some cheap sheets of A4 paper, pre-soaked and layed onto panel, this worked quite well, easy to slide
and position and you can rub out the air bubbles with your finger.


2 layers of pre-soaked Kitchen towel and a sheet of plastic film on the top to slow down evaporation



QUESTION

The picture below shows the top layer of antiglare, i have measured it at 0.25 - 0.3mm thick. Is
this what i am expecting to remove or is it the top layer between the 0.25 - 0.3mm gap ?

They are some exceptional macro shots. The pic showing the light reflection is my favourite you can actually see what the a/g is doing to the light. The outer haze of the reflection shows light and dark spots where the a/g’s uneven surface is shattering allot of the light away from the camera.
Good luck on the soak

DJ

Thanks DAZZZLA, ill post a link to a higher resolution picture later. Its quite tricky to get a good photo with the flash. I need to try it at day light, i might get better focus on the picture

Check your email brutuz

I checked the panel after 7 hours, did not try to lift anything up. Is the color of the panel supposed to change? it looks just the same as before

GAH! Just the topmost layer of that layer. It is extremely thin (thinner than paper?). When you are done there is still an item that looks to be the same thickness as when you started glued to your glass substrate. Make sure you know exactly what I am saying here. This is critical.

Nope. It will look just the same as a dry panel, just there is magic in it now (Shhhh).

Take a look at the second photograph in this post: http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s...indpost&p=98482

It is of me peeling up the neutral white anti-glare (you can see how white the paper towel is behind it). The important part is that you can still see the plastic that remains glued to the panel. This includes the PVA (Polarization magic action layer). I have in essence split height wise a sheet of what looked to be solid plastic.

just needed to be sure i knew it should be the thickness of a plastic bag. 2 and a half hours to go and i'll try and ease up a corner

Maybe you should wave a DVD of 'Fifth Element' over the panel before you try a corner. Hopefully the DIY gods above might hear ya.
sim

its been soaking 10 hours now, tempted to lift a corner but i will wait the full 12 hours

EDIT: Tried to lift a corner after 11 hours with a sharp knife but notthing wanted to give way. Leave it another hour or two. Everything is so small its not easy to find a corner to lift, but it might be better after a few more hours soaking. This time i will dry the corner and use some tape to try and lift the corner

12 hours soaking is up so i tried a corner with some tape but nothing would pull up. Used a sharp knife and cut into a corner and lifted a think layer came up, its clear and underneath its shiny black. The layer is thin but its quite brittle so i will soak it longer. It could be the sides that are brittle or this is a hard coat 3H

another test corner, the stuf that i am pulling up cracks very easy. Going to soak longer

Maybe ditch the paper layer. Just go for paper towel. Could be holding the water back.

It does look like it is coming up, and as long as what you are peeling is not the PVA or the whole polarizer (very hard to tell that sort of thing with photos).

The stuff should not crack at all. Let it soak without the paper for quite a while longer and see what happens.

Don't work any further than the black mask area in your test pull-ups. And Mikau apparently found that hard water will not permeate well, so distilled is a good idea.

edit Did you find that the second corner went better? It looks like it.

I don't think that any hard coat should be brittle. The stuff with 2H is very flexible, and the hardcaot is applied before the polarizer is glued down.

Make sure that the shiny layer beneath is not the glass or some other layer. The anti-glare is ultra clear stuff. A polarizer has a slight gray tint.

And make sure you reinforce with tape if you feel you can go the full way. But for sure you need a longer soak there.

Patience is probably key here.

Had a look under the paper and its really wet. I'll leave it on another 10h and see what happens.

I soaked mine for 10 hours with paper towels. But I added water every 1-2 hours to keep it really wet.

And it was hard to start the edge. I had to lay the razor flat and wedge it under the antiglare layer. Then pull up gently until yu can grab it with your fingertips. Then I had to pull slowly and it SLOWLY peeled off.

Are you using distilled water? I agree, let it go for another extreme.

The thing with the paper is that it may be acting like the paper on PVA tests that we did. For some reason when water is in that form it was not able to dissolve the PVA the way straight water could.

Yes im using destilled water, i removed the paper just incase. i'll give it another couple of hours and try and get a thinner layer than the one i pulled

Removed paper and paper towels and lay only new paper towels down. Went very close to the corners
this time and left it to soak another 8 hours. This morning, i took a razor blade and tried to lift a corner
by shaving the top. Instead of a layer poping up the layer shaved away in small pieces. It just did not feel
right what was comming up the layer was brittle not like a plastic sheet.

Here a picture of the layer that came up with the backlights on. This is a very small corner the resolution
is set at 1920x1200, looking at the panel from about 30cm you can notice the layer missing but you can
see the corner is sharper.




Close up



The good news is that the panel did not damage at all after 20 hours soak.

Some pictures of the whole panel after the soak. No visible damage
(NOT TO CONFUSE ANYONE, THESE IMAGES ARE WITH ANTIGLARE)

With the A4 paper and without the A4 paper the panel was really wet. I used the plastic cover that came with the panel and layed that ontop of the screen it kept wet all the time, added water now and then After 20 hours it was still hard to find anything to pull thats looks like anything like a plastic bag. I used a sharp knife and cut into the corner very slightlty and as thin as possible. It could be that the corners are re-enforced with glue

JonJandran, do you have any screenshots of your antiglare side and the antiglare you removed , the pictures you posted were from the back of the panel where the backlights are. Thanks

Thinking of giving it another soak it could have been the corners that were not soaked that well, but thats hard to believe the paper towels were right up into the corners for 8 hours the paper and paper towels were right up in the corener for 12 hours and they were allways wet. but I'll wait until i hear your comments before i do anything

Had another look at the corner what i allready pulled up, and its very thin, it does look like it was the
anitglare but i cant be sure. Underneath that its shiny like a mirror. The piece i lifted just broke easy
when lifting, sort of brittle like. what do you think guys, 24 hour soak and try and pull this corner up again which i started.

Brutz,, those pics are great,,, keep going with care,,,

all success to you....

Thanks allot, i hope i can remove this horrible stuff from the panel.

Good luck dude, Im waiting here holding my breath with anticipation!

Thanks i am taking the carefull aproach to this, do you guys rekon that's the antiglare im removing?

From the photos you have shown, I would say that you are indeed removing the antiglare.

As you pointed out, the pixels appear brighter and more well defined on the corner you peeled up.

Also, to (maybe) put your mind at rest, I can assure you you have not pulled up the polarizer!! If you had, you would not see any pixel colouring on the corner......

On another note, im really keeping my fingers crossed that this works with the water rag method, im sure that anti glare is a prime candidate for paint stripper (which should desolve your cracking anti glare all together) but i have this panel too, and the thought of pouring paint stripper over it makes me cringe a little.... even though it has been shown that it works....

Agree with you applying stripper would be a nightmare eventhough its proved to be working, sanding with sandpaper is even worse. My only concern with stripper is that it could eat through more than i wanted. I have some gel paint stripper but its not the type thats sold in the US. I wait and see what Mark has to say. In the meantime im going to soak it again, make sure the corners are well saturated that could have been the problem. Maybe use some different paper towels, thicker ones. The ones i was using we for my kid

Soak attempt 2

Found some towel to clean cars with, its thicker and holds more water that the paper towel did. With my finger i can push it out to the edges, and this time i have gone right to the edge. Used more water this time. Will keep applying for every 3 hours if needed for the next 12 hours or so

Wooow.... i really hope this works....

Me too Got to admit i kind of made a mistake with with the suggested tape. I stuck a piece of tape on the panel thinking it was used to pull up the antiglare to get it started. The tape should be used to re-enforce the top layer while trying to pull up a corner with the razor blade. (sorry Mark, i know you have mentioned this many times ) I guess i made that mistake becuase i wanted to see if it was soaked enough without having to remove all the paper and lay it down again.

Im not going to tear up a peice if it does not come of with very little effort.