Any Ideas?
I mean... 99% of the commercial projectors out there suffer from a few major problems, that we are all familiar with.
They (commercial projectors) are meant for (portable) business use which means they werent intentionally MADE for Home Theatre viewing.
Thats why they have the high bulb cost, and small form factor.
What business cares about having to pay 350 for a bulb that they have to replace every few years since they are only using the projector occasionally for presentations? For these projector users portability is more important than bulb cost.
BUT...
For Home Theatre use where the projector is used for movies/games/television/etc. Bulb cost/lifespan becomes more important.
The way I see it, there is a sizeable market for Projectors geared towards home use, these "Home Theatre" projectors could be bigger than typical business projectors (because they dont need to move around easily), but have a low bulb cost/long bulb lifespan, and higher resolution.
Why havent any of the major manufacturers stepped up to the plate to fill this obvious void?
All they would have to do is build a projector that is too big to be easily portable (so they dont eat into their portable business projector market), uses off the shelf parts, and has a long lasting bulb! The whole DIY projector club could be put out of business in a hot minute if a projector manufacturer built a projector that had 1024 x 768 or better resolution, with a bulb that cost 50 bucks to replace and lasted 10K hours or more, and cost around a grand to buy.
For example... my friend has an Infocus X1... I asked him... Why do you need a portable projector? It doesnt go anywhere! Would you be willing to buy a projector that was 5/6 times the size of your Infocus if it had equal or better resolution and a cheap/long lasting bulb? He said YES!
So why dont they do it? There is an obvious market out there!
Any thoughts?
Full Version: Why are there NO DIY Style Commercial Projectors?
Lets start a company and build them. Brain could be the CEO and the rest of us are stock holders and investors. 
By the way... I completely agree. They focus their efforts on making projectors smaller and smaller, which keeps the cost up because there is no mass market for the small projectors. I guess some day we will be able to carry projectors on key chains but they will still cost a butt load of money.
I do think a company could be started to build the type of thing you are talking about. It just takes effort and money.
Of course... You always have to think of the 4 questions you must ask before undertaking such a buisiness.
S = Strenghts, What are some of the strengths a company like this would have.
W = Weakness, What would it's weaknesses be.
O = Oportunity, What oportunities are there.
T = Threats, What would be a threat to it's success.
YEAH, I remebered something from buisiness school. The good old SWOT analisys.
By the way... I completely agree. They focus their efforts on making projectors smaller and smaller, which keeps the cost up because there is no mass market for the small projectors. I guess some day we will be able to carry projectors on key chains but they will still cost a butt load of money.
I do think a company could be started to build the type of thing you are talking about. It just takes effort and money.
Of course... You always have to think of the 4 questions you must ask before undertaking such a buisiness.
S = Strenghts, What are some of the strengths a company like this would have.
W = Weakness, What would it's weaknesses be.
O = Oportunity, What oportunities are there.
T = Threats, What would be a threat to it's success.
YEAH, I remebered something from buisiness school. The good old SWOT analisys.
QUOTE (sav8or1 @ Dec 5 2005, 11:45 PM) 
Lets start a company and build them. Brain could be the CEO and the rest of us are stock holders and investors.
By the way... I completely agree. They focus their efforts on making projectors smaller and smaller, which keeps the cost up because there is no mass market for the small projectors. I guess some day we will be able to carry projectors on key chains but they will still cost a butt load of money.
I do think a company could be started to build the type of thing you are talking about. It just takes effort and money.
Of course... You always have to think of the 4 questions you must ask before undertaking such a buisiness.
S = Strenghts, What are some of the strengths a company like this would have.
W = Weakness, What would it's weaknesses be.
O = Oportunity, What oportunities are there.
T = Threats, What would be a threat to it's success.
YEAH, I remebered something from buisiness school. The good old SWOT analisys.
By the way... I completely agree. They focus their efforts on making projectors smaller and smaller, which keeps the cost up because there is no mass market for the small projectors. I guess some day we will be able to carry projectors on key chains but they will still cost a butt load of money.
I do think a company could be started to build the type of thing you are talking about. It just takes effort and money.
Of course... You always have to think of the 4 questions you must ask before undertaking such a buisiness.
S = Strenghts, What are some of the strengths a company like this would have.
W = Weakness, What would it's weaknesses be.
O = Oportunity, What oportunities are there.
T = Threats, What would be a threat to it's success.
YEAH, I remebered something from buisiness school. The good old SWOT analisys.
Interesting thoughts. I think there probably is a market for this type of product.
sav8or1 - The old SWOT analysis. I am having flashbacks of my Marketing classes.
QUOTE (Luca Brazzi @ Dec 5 2005, 07:04 PM)
Any Ideas?
If you ask me I would say it's because:1. The larger the panel, the more difficult (expensive) it gets to light the panel brightly and evenly. There is a huge advantage to the way commercial projectors manage their light. To a point, these designs are less expensive the smaller they get (That would be one huge prism).
2. The larger the box, the more expensive it gets to ship and store the parts and finished products. And it would likely take more raw materials.
3. Heat (etc).
4. False economy. Just because a company says it costs more to make it smaller doesn't mean it's proportionally true. It is often just marketing. If they can make it small once, they can make it small a zillion times. I would hesitate to thing that a projector manufactures for anything near the MSRP.
Mark.
Yeah. It's important to remember that their market isn't based on personal home use. If it were they would market for it. If they consentrated on the household market it would be amazing to see what they could accomplish.
Yeah think about all those projectors in classrooms. In my college we have a projector for every room with dalite screens. OK I admit it, I almost stole it 
but I then I thought against it.
but I then I thought against it.
QUOTE (shivers20 @ Dec 7 2005, 12:56 AM)
Yeah think about all those projectors in classrooms. In my college we have a projector for every room with dalite screens. OK I admit it, I almost stole it but I then I thought against it.
but I then I thought against it.i think yer still thinkin about it. lmao
ninja stylered
just an interesting find,
here's a sort of commercial-diy hybrid with incredible results, small size, and a very professional box.
http://www.diy-community.de/viewtopic.php?t=12019
edit...this is an out of forum link...SORRY if it's not allowed. feel free to take it down
here's a sort of commercial-diy hybrid with incredible results, small size, and a very professional box.
http://www.diy-community.de/viewtopic.php?t=12019
edit...this is an out of forum link...SORRY if it's not allowed. feel free to take it down
QUOTE (sav8or1 @ Dec 6 2005, 11:00 PM)
Yeah. It's important to remember that their market isn't based on personal home use. If it were they would market for it. If they consentrated on the household market it would be amazing to see what they could accomplish.
I think they dont want to monkey with their cash cow Business Market.
Its very interesting...
If say... Infocus were to build a Home Theatre projector with a long lasting bulb... they would be forced to make it huge so as to not interfere with their mainstay Business Market.
IMO no Business Projector Manufacturer wants to be associated with having HUGE projectors because it may scare away their Business customers... even though... their "Business Model Line" projectors may be the smallest available!
Now... as far as the Home Theatre projector OWNERS go... Here is the main question:
How Big can a Home Theatre projector be before it starts to bother your typical person's ego?
In otherwords... When it comes to High Tech... smaller is perceived to be better (even if it isnt). Phones are a good example but...
Ex: My Friend has an Infocus X1, which is very small... but is 800x600 res, and has a 350.00 bulb that last 4K hours (on a good day).
I have a HUGE DIY projector with a 15" LCD that is 1024x768 res, and has a 40.00 bulb that lasts 10K hours.
Who wins the pissing contest?
Ive talked with him several times about this. When I first told him I was building a Projector... of course he tried to convince me to buy a commercial one (misery loves company). He hasn't seen mine yet, but I talk about it often, and actually... until I build a REAL one (my current one is a test box/prototype that I just slapped together) I dont know if I WANT him to see it.
To make a long story short...
When it comes to projectors, and ego... Does Size Matter? In Reverse?
QUOTE
here's a sort of commercial-diy hybrid with incredible results, small size, and a very professional box.
Yes... thats one very professional looking box!
I think the hardest part of accomplishing this from a technical aspect would be packing in the Technology that commercial projectors have. The projector you pointed out is a very clean looking box, but internally it is still a VGA Monitor/Bulb/Fans/Lenses and a couple of mechanical switches. A commercial projection system has alot more built in technology than that.
I would think that at a minimum, a Commercial version of a DIY projector would need to have at least:
- Multiple input sources (VGA/S-Video/Composite)
- Some form of control system for the fans/lamp/etc
- Some form of optical correction (keystone/brightness/contrast/etc)
- Mechanically User Friendly (Bulb changes/etc)
- Be made out of something other than wood (Acrylic maybe?)
Well, in terms of box size, the larger box doesn't bother me much. I went overboard the first time. This time I'll make something that will fit on a shelf.
For the inputs: Actually, this isn't that hard, if you start with an LCD TV set instead of a monitor. Currently for 15" LCDs, the TVs are a lot easier to find than the monitors are. (At least around here.) That will generally give you the multiple inputs, composite, S-Video and often component as well. (And of course they usually still have VGA.) You can also use the internal TV tuner, which is an added bonus, but involves either using the built-in speakers, or arranging a line out.
As to why commercial manufacturers don't make 'em big like this, it's partly market demand, and partly economy of scale.
Most people don't want a big box. If that means that they spend more for lamps, and "have to deal with" SVGA resolution, they'll accept that. This also allows them to use the same lenses and focusing mechanism in their lower end mass production models as their high end business "small" projectors, taking advantage of economy of scale. They can also use similar optics and light engines, perhaps just replacing the lamp with one that's brighter because it's higher wattage. Plus they save money shipping it out to retailers, who can afford to stock more of the small units, because it doesn't take as much warehouse space. All of this increases their profits, so that's the way they work it. The short lamp life even increases profits, because you know they're not losing money selling you those lamps.
For the inputs: Actually, this isn't that hard, if you start with an LCD TV set instead of a monitor. Currently for 15" LCDs, the TVs are a lot easier to find than the monitors are. (At least around here.) That will generally give you the multiple inputs, composite, S-Video and often component as well. (And of course they usually still have VGA.) You can also use the internal TV tuner, which is an added bonus, but involves either using the built-in speakers, or arranging a line out.
As to why commercial manufacturers don't make 'em big like this, it's partly market demand, and partly economy of scale.
Most people don't want a big box. If that means that they spend more for lamps, and "have to deal with" SVGA resolution, they'll accept that. This also allows them to use the same lenses and focusing mechanism in their lower end mass production models as their high end business "small" projectors, taking advantage of economy of scale. They can also use similar optics and light engines, perhaps just replacing the lamp with one that's brighter because it's higher wattage. Plus they save money shipping it out to retailers, who can afford to stock more of the small units, because it doesn't take as much warehouse space. All of this increases their profits, so that's the way they work it. The short lamp life even increases profits, because you know they're not losing money selling you those lamps.
QUOTE (SupraGuy @ Dec 24 2005, 07:43 PM)
Well, in terms of box size, the larger box doesn't bother me much. I went overboard the first time. This time I'll make something that will fit on a shelf.
For the inputs: Actually, this isn't that hard, if you start with an LCD TV set instead of a monitor. Currently for 15" LCDs, the TVs are a lot easier to find than the monitors are. (At least around here.) That will generally give you the multiple inputs, composite, S-Video and often component as well. (And of course they usually still have VGA.) You can also use the internal TV tuner, which is an added bonus, but involves either using the built-in speakers, or arranging a line out.
As to why commercial manufacturers don't make 'em big like this, it's partly market demand, and partly economy of scale.
Most people don't want a big box. If that means that they spend more for lamps, and "have to deal with" SVGA resolution, they'll accept that. This also allows them to use the same lenses and focusing mechanism in their lower end mass production models as their high end business "small" projectors, taking advantage of economy of scale. They can also use similar optics and light engines, perhaps just replacing the lamp with one that's brighter because it's higher wattage. Plus they save money shipping it out to retailers, who can afford to stock more of the small units, because it doesn't take as much warehouse space. All of this increases their profits, so that's the way they work it. The short lamp life even increases profits, because you know they're not losing money selling you those lamps.
For the inputs: Actually, this isn't that hard, if you start with an LCD TV set instead of a monitor. Currently for 15" LCDs, the TVs are a lot easier to find than the monitors are. (At least around here.) That will generally give you the multiple inputs, composite, S-Video and often component as well. (And of course they usually still have VGA.) You can also use the internal TV tuner, which is an added bonus, but involves either using the built-in speakers, or arranging a line out.
As to why commercial manufacturers don't make 'em big like this, it's partly market demand, and partly economy of scale.
Most people don't want a big box. If that means that they spend more for lamps, and "have to deal with" SVGA resolution, they'll accept that. This also allows them to use the same lenses and focusing mechanism in their lower end mass production models as their high end business "small" projectors, taking advantage of economy of scale. They can also use similar optics and light engines, perhaps just replacing the lamp with one that's brighter because it's higher wattage. Plus they save money shipping it out to retailers, who can afford to stock more of the small units, because it doesn't take as much warehouse space. All of this increases their profits, so that's the way they work it. The short lamp life even increases profits, because you know they're not losing money selling you those lamps.
I think its one of those things where noone wants to make the 1st move. It will take some outsider to force them to change, but if the major players saw their home theatre market eroding because some small company was building projectors with a 20K bulb lifespan, and HD resolution, they would take notice.
I dont think your typical home theater viewer would be willing to have a box say the size of a 15+" LCD based projector ,unless it could be made more asthetically pleasing, but I think that many might give a projector based on a smaller panel (8 or 7") a second look at least.
A good target market for projectors based on larger LCDs could be the Gaming Community who would LOVE the higher resolution, and enormous screen size, or people who absolutely want HDTV.
Naw. It'd be easier to just throw some money into marketing and advertising to make people think that their product was better. Advertising works, says my cynical side.
How bout these? long bulb life, and cheap bulbs as well.
Now if the cost would come down.
found on ebay
Now if the cost would come down.
found on ebay
Can you imagine what could be done with, say, a 5 to 7" 1080 x 1920 LCD screen as the imager? A large manufacturer could do that. They could also leave off all of the anti-glare.
Lens: how about an 8" or 9" CRT lens? Think the F might fast enough? I believe we could drop the field fresnel...
No need for splitters or TIR prisms or the like...
Light engine: duh.
I don't believe, with all due respect, that uniformity gets easier with decreased size--I believe it is probably the opposite, from what I have read. In any case, uniformity is pretty easy to manage (with a light tunnel) for a manufacturer--just kind of difficult in the DIY world.
The heaviest single part would be the lens. It could easily fit in a box 9" x 9" x 20"
Give it WIRELESS connection to a controler/input box.
Oh well...
Lens: how about an 8" or 9" CRT lens? Think the F might fast enough? I believe we could drop the field fresnel...
No need for splitters or TIR prisms or the like...
Light engine: duh.
I don't believe, with all due respect, that uniformity gets easier with decreased size--I believe it is probably the opposite, from what I have read. In any case, uniformity is pretty easy to manage (with a light tunnel) for a manufacturer--just kind of difficult in the DIY world.
The heaviest single part would be the lens. It could easily fit in a box 9" x 9" x 20"
Give it WIRELESS connection to a controler/input box.
Oh well...
Uniformity? I think it gets easier with size decrease. Take a pre-condenser, mount it in front of you bulb, shine it so it covers your LCD. And presto uniformity solved.
QUOTE (kc0kfg @ Dec 26 2005, 06:48 PM)
How bout these? long bulb life, and cheap bulbs as well.
Now if the cost would come down.
found on ebay
Now if the cost would come down.
found on ebay
Interesting find... the price doesnt seem very high (835.00 US)
Im still trying to figure out what the catch is though.... maybe there is none
QUOTE (Luca Brazzi @ Jan 3 2006, 11:27 AM)
Interesting find... the price doesnt seem very high (835.00 US)
Im still trying to figure out what the catch is though.... maybe there is none
Im still trying to figure out what the catch is though.... maybe there is none
The catch is the seller doesn't list the native res of the LCD.
At the bottom of the page.
Q: What is the NATIVE resolution of this projector?
A: The Native resolution ratio is 4:3. The following resolutions work well with the ratio 4:3, 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, 1600x1200. There is the option to change it to 16:9 Ratio if you wish, all dpending on the screen dimensions you would like.
QUOTE (mattcosturos @ Jan 3 2006, 12:01 PM)
The catch is the seller doesn't list the native res of the LCD.
At the bottom of the page.
Q: What is the NATIVE resolution of this projector?
A: The Native resolution ratio is 4:3. The following resolutions work well with the ratio 4:3, 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, 1600x1200. There is the option to change it to 16:9 Ratio if you wish, all dpending on the screen dimensions you would like.
At the bottom of the page.
Q: What is the NATIVE resolution of this projector?
A: The Native resolution ratio is 4:3. The following resolutions work well with the ratio 4:3, 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, 1600x1200. There is the option to change it to 16:9 Ratio if you wish, all dpending on the screen dimensions you would like.
Yeah I had noticed that one... after further reading... He is selling them though (according to EBay) and hasnt gotten any unfavorable comments. I sent him an email about the missing specs... lets see what I get back.
The seller has several of these up for auction on ebay. I read one of his newer listings for sale and he has changed that:
Q: What is the NATIVE resolution of this projector?
A: The Native resolution ratio is 4:3. The following resolutions work well with the ratio 4:3, 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, 1600x1200. There is the option to change it to 16:9 Ratio if you wish, all dpending on the screen dimensions you would like.
changed to::
Q: What is the NATIVE resolution of this projector?
A: The Native resolution ratio is 800x600, but supports these picture types without much loss as they are easily fcctored up 1024x768, 1600x1200.
So I would think quality would be similar to a 8"Hami PJ, But with out all the work, and in a small, professional enclosure...
Im seriously considering this and will make a decision in a couple days.
And course if I do get it, i will take pics and open it up a bit and post pics.
<<<btw first time poster, joined and have been spending my time reading, reading, reading and reading some more lol
have bought a 8" 800x600 lcd to tear down for my first PJ, but this is really temping. Anyway excited to be here and just wanted to /wave hi!
Q: What is the NATIVE resolution of this projector?
A: The Native resolution ratio is 4:3. The following resolutions work well with the ratio 4:3, 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, 1600x1200. There is the option to change it to 16:9 Ratio if you wish, all dpending on the screen dimensions you would like.
changed to::
Q: What is the NATIVE resolution of this projector?
A: The Native resolution ratio is 800x600, but supports these picture types without much loss as they are easily fcctored up 1024x768, 1600x1200.
So I would think quality would be similar to a 8"Hami PJ, But with out all the work, and in a small, professional enclosure...
Im seriously considering this and will make a decision in a couple days.
And course if I do get it, i will take pics and open it up a bit and post pics.
<<<btw first time poster, joined and have been spending my time reading, reading, reading and reading some more lol
have bought a 8" 800x600 lcd to tear down for my first PJ, but this is really temping. Anyway excited to be here and just wanted to /wave hi!
QUOTE (alexandro98 @ Jan 10 2006, 11:34 AM)
The seller has several of these up for auction on ebay. I read one of his newer listings for sale and he has changed that:
Q: What is the NATIVE resolution of this projector?
A: The Native resolution ratio is 4:3. The following resolutions work well with the ratio 4:3, 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, 1600x1200. There is the option to change it to 16:9 Ratio if you wish, all dpending on the screen dimensions you would like.
changed to::
Q: What is the NATIVE resolution of this projector?
A: The Native resolution ratio is 800x600, but supports these picture types without much loss as they are easily fcctored up 1024x768, 1600x1200.
So I would think quality would be similar to a 8"Hami PJ, But with out all the work, and in a small, professional enclosure...
Im seriously considering this and will make a decision in a couple days.
And course if I do get it, i will take pics and open it up a bit and post pics.
<<<btw first time poster, joined and have been spending my time reading, reading, reading and reading some more lol
have bought a 8" 800x600 lcd to tear down for my first PJ, but this is really temping. Anyway excited to be here and just wanted to /wave hi!
Q: What is the NATIVE resolution of this projector?
A: The Native resolution ratio is 4:3. The following resolutions work well with the ratio 4:3, 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, 1600x1200. There is the option to change it to 16:9 Ratio if you wish, all dpending on the screen dimensions you would like.
changed to::
Q: What is the NATIVE resolution of this projector?
A: The Native resolution ratio is 800x600, but supports these picture types without much loss as they are easily fcctored up 1024x768, 1600x1200.
So I would think quality would be similar to a 8"Hami PJ, But with out all the work, and in a small, professional enclosure...
Im seriously considering this and will make a decision in a couple days.
And course if I do get it, i will take pics and open it up a bit and post pics.
<<<btw first time poster, joined and have been spending my time reading, reading, reading and reading some more lol
have bought a 8" 800x600 lcd to tear down for my first PJ, but this is really temping. Anyway excited to be here and just wanted to /wave hi!
heres the manufacturer, not much other info though
http://www.ally3.com/products_l.asp?id=140
QUOTE (mikyd1954 @ Jan 10 2006, 03:10 PM)
heres the manufacturer, not much other info though
http://www.ally3.com/products_l.asp?id=140
http://www.ally3.com/products_l.asp?id=140
Clicked and saw ::Add to Cart:: got excited because I thought I might be able to buy it cheaper from source then from ebay seller. However when I clicked, it came back "out of stock" and even after registering, all the products have a price of $0.
They have a US email address under contact, so I emailed asking for a price and when they would be back in stock.
Lets see how/If they respond.
btw, does the price show up as $0 for everyone else too?
Thanks
QUOTE (alexandro98 @ Jan 10 2006, 12:34 PM)
The seller has several of these up for auction on ebay. I read one of his newer listings for sale and he has changed that:
Q: What is the NATIVE resolution of this projector?
A: The Native resolution ratio is 4:3. The following resolutions work well with the ratio 4:3, 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, 1600x1200. There is the option to change it to 16:9 Ratio if you wish, all dpending on the screen dimensions you would like.
changed to::
Q: What is the NATIVE resolution of this projector?
A: The Native resolution ratio is 800x600, but supports these picture types without much loss as they are easily fcctored up 1024x768, 1600x1200.
So I would think quality would be similar to a 8"Hami PJ, But with out all the work, and in a small, professional enclosure...
Im seriously considering this and will make a decision in a couple days.
And course if I do get it, i will take pics and open it up a bit and post pics.
<<<btw first time poster, joined and have been spending my time reading, reading, reading and reading some more lol
have bought a 8" 800x600 lcd to tear down for my first PJ, but this is really temping. Anyway excited to be here and just wanted to /wave hi!
Q: What is the NATIVE resolution of this projector?
A: The Native resolution ratio is 4:3. The following resolutions work well with the ratio 4:3, 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, 1600x1200. There is the option to change it to 16:9 Ratio if you wish, all dpending on the screen dimensions you would like.
changed to::
Q: What is the NATIVE resolution of this projector?
A: The Native resolution ratio is 800x600, but supports these picture types without much loss as they are easily fcctored up 1024x768, 1600x1200.
So I would think quality would be similar to a 8"Hami PJ, But with out all the work, and in a small, professional enclosure...
Im seriously considering this and will make a decision in a couple days.
And course if I do get it, i will take pics and open it up a bit and post pics.
<<<btw first time poster, joined and have been spending my time reading, reading, reading and reading some more lol
have bought a 8" 800x600 lcd to tear down for my first PJ, but this is really temping. Anyway excited to be here and just wanted to /wave hi!
He must have changed it in response to my inquiries.... his other description was confusing. When he replied to my EMail he said he asked the Manufacturer and they told him the Native Res, but they didnt know the response time (suspect). I also asked him about returns... and he said he couldnt accept returns. The thing that bothers me about this is... What if there is a problem after a year?
And also, he is stretching the bulb life a bit... the Manufacturer says 6-8K he says 8-10K... I dont see why he would need to do this since the bulb is so cheap.
Id offer 600.00 US to see if he'll bite (if you are seriously considering this)
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