Check this. http://www.nam.lighting.philips.com/can/ec.../pdf/p-5497.pdf

Looks to be basically the same lamp but rated horizontal. Sigh . . . I really seem to remember SIM and others determining this bulb was NOT rated horizontal. Ah well - perhaps I'll have another go. Anyone stumbling across any in the bargain bin gimme a holler willya? I'll be looking too.

Edit: My bad. I always shoot off my mouth too fast. There are vert and horiz versions. Now to determine how they differ and if the vert version burned horiz would do a Mission Impossible self-destruct like mine did.

For anyone maybe following along I went and dug up an old thread on the ceramics. Here: http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s...st&p=229925

The hunt for another HORIZ rated one begins.

Looking like around $42 + shipping.

Over powering could have been the culprit. Or that in combination with the spherical reflector concentrating heat at one point.

I sold my newer BD Philips way back when but I do have my universal (BU/BD) old one, if you like you can have it but it has been quite used and might not be as bright as it was newer.

Looking at this old one I don't see any unusual defects. It has been burned vertically standing up on it's base most of the time and overclocked.

You know, this brings to mind a question I have had rolling around. How can a good spherical reflector really work with a ceramic, if the ceramic emits light, but doesn't pass light? Seems like all you would be doing is heating the core with the reflection.

LOL I hadn't, but now that you mention it! MMMMmmmmMMMM the more flesh to check out these enhanced tones, the better! Sounds like a plan - I think some intent testing is in order!!!


Gotta love bottoms, tops, AND sides! Personally, I'm a neathage fan - so, sorta a bottom OF the top thing!

Huh, huhhuh.... he said "tip" Beavis!


NIIIICE peaks, D!

Damn dude! Sorry to hear about your troubles. Good luck on the search and destroy...errr....replace.

When Destructo-kitty killed my first S400DD, this lamp (or one that looks exactly like it) was one of my replacement options. I decided against it, since I didn't know what the consequences would be.

The "aneurism" makes sense to me. The white and yellow deposits on the glass look like the stuff that should be in the arc chamber. It would deposit on the glass based on the temperature at the location.

Whether this is from burning out of position? Who knows, though burning out of position is supposed to be bad for the lamp, and promote early failure.

@DAZZ: But the bleb din't happen where it "should" have. Sure though, could be. What to do. What to do.

@SIM: BU/BD isn't a vertical designation??? Base Up/Base Down. At least that's my understanding. Regarding weldon's comment - did your experiments indicate a reflector was not effective with a ceramic lamp??? PM me about selling me your ceramic if you'd be willing to unload it. Hell, I'll try it. What've I got to lose? How much were you overclocking?

@weld (DAZZ too): Good point. At least the pro is a cold mirror coating. Hmmm . . .

This could be just the impetus I needed to shimmy right on over the the 575 camp. Hmmmm . . . again.

Dum de dummm de dummmmm . . .

Ah right, confusion, confusion, my bad. Can't say I tried without a reflector. At best I had used a not so efficient one to another (ladles that is). The lamp's free since it has been used quite a bit, o'clocked from a low end S51 ballast @ 48uf to 55uf; a difference of +7. I pm'd you for your addy.

BTW, my lamp has the single support element style compared to the double and what you have. Pictures are at the link you posted earlier http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s...st&p=229925. Also, I just reread that thread and found that sensibull received word from Philips whom stated that rupture to the arc will eventually occur when horizontal. Possibly, your 3 tries to my 1 pushed it to it's positional limits especially when o'clocked.

Durachko: Sorry, not trying to confuse things. I have never used a ceramic. It's just a question that has been rattling around for me. How DOES the light get thru the center of a ceramic arc?

I believe this is the answer to your question...or at least a starting point - wikipedia link

Excerpt below...

Not being a physicist - even though I did manage to pass 3 college level physics courses (just goes to show what a degree really means) - I can't say with any certainty whether or not reflected light would pass back through a ceramic arc chamber. I do know I have to point my flashlight where I want to see and would stake my life on it that when I look at the Sun I'm not seeing light from the backside having come through the fiery orb. I'd tend to think since the dang light gets out it'd pass through albeit maybe with a snigger of attenuation. Some smart guy needs to set us straight.

Or ... maybe a pen laser through the middle from one of you guys with one.

The ceramic doesn’t look very clear but it doesn’t stop the arc from shinning through it. I know that I have taken a photo of my 150w powerball showing the round outline of the vessel with a distinct arc between the electrodes but I can’t find it on my PCs. When I get the 10.6 running I'll see if I can take another.

DJ

Um... Could I suggest a more simple approach? Worked for me with my MH light reflector testing.

The reflector, being set in the correct location reflects straight back at the source. As such, any signifigant increase in lux MUST therefore be an increase due to the reflector.

This is where I got the 27% for stainless and 50% for the pro reflector from. (This indicates that there must also be attenuation going through the glass envelope in a MH lamp, too.)

I would suggest doing a similar experiment with the ceramic lamp, if you still have one.

Too easy!

Um . . . I just so happen to NOT have one but one is coming courtesy SIM. I'll have a go at it.

Lessee . . . my first ceramic seems to have lasted 2 or 3 burns. If the one I get from SIM lasts 2 burns I can test this. If not, well, I'm one step closer to a 575HMI without having answered this question.

Edit: What could I use for a sheet of something between the reflector and lamp for a few minutes? I can set up my lux meter and energize the lamp with something blocking the reflector and get a reading then pull out the sheet and get an instantaneous reading which should be brighter. I can do this now because of my new ventilation hole. Foil would work but it's shiny but it's gonna be a totally crappy reflector so shall I just go with that? I kinda hate to paint a piece of foil black for fear I'd get paint chips flaking off into my lightbox but maybe I could do that instead. The sheet would be touching the lamp envelope in places without doubt hence my hesitation at sticking any old thing in there to block the reflector.

Matte black painted metal.

I tried construction paper, but it started smoking before I could even let go of the sheet.

If you have some black asbestos cloth around, that could also work.

With the bulbs surface temp being in excess of 800 degrees, you are going to want to sacrifice a piece of tin and some engine paint to make a block. Try to make it larger than you normally would to dissipate heat and wear gloves, cause it gets very hot...

Or use a cast iron griddle and have eggs and bacon afterward...

Take a look at this post ( http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s...st&p=221282 )

This was during some tests on defocusing the lamp arc to create more lux. Pictures of 150W ceramic lamp in operation (can see the arc), and lux readings without reflector, with reflector (aligned) and reflector (misaligned). Results: You do get and increase in lumens aligning the reflector back through a ceramic arc. You get a bigger increase when aligning the reflected arc image to the side of the arc chamber (ie. "defocused" lamp image). Also tested lux decrease as a result of shifting the lamp away from the focal point of the collimating fresnel. (moving lamp to the side was how the lamp was "defocused")

Thanks GS! How'd I forget that? Sigh . . . I've forgotten more than I've ever learned. Wait . . . is that even possible?

Hey, I remembered this. What the hell is a simflector?

( http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s...st&p=221877 )

WTH?? That's the most stupid idea I ever....*wait a minute*

SIM: Got the test subject. I'll try to be gentle with her.

Courtesy SIM I now have another retro ceramic to try. I swear his lamp guts are different than mine but I don't have both in hand right now to compare. Anyway, I'll see what it does when I am able.

Bumped........

I'm going as fast as I can!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No you're not. You're plodding. Just like me.

The glorious time had come. Tonight I reached for the switch and - CLICK . . .

. . . nothing.

Fuggit. I'll come back to it. Simply screwed in SIM's old retro ceramic and nuthin'. Everything is plugged in. Lamp screwed in tight. Who knows though. Could be something very stoopid.

WTF?

Ah well - the hot tub is calling.

Excuses , excuses..... Waa Waa it won't turn on.

Hey here's an idea, try using some of that knowledge of yours to fix the problem.

If you don't we might be eating pork tonight courtesy of a sword wielding maniac.

PBRAC:

Problem between remote and chair.

Make someone a mod and all of a sudden they get all cocky like.



I'm gonna drown an effigy of you in my hot tub in about 2 minutes JJ. Let me know if you feel strange tonight.

First I'm gonna plunge that JJ doll under and when I've judged it's just about time you'd be gasping for air and filling your lungs with water I'm gonna bubble some special gas right in the dolls face.

<knowledge? wot knowledge?>

I'll fix it. It'll just take a year or three.

Buncha comedians here tonight I see.

You know, with this amount of imagination you'd think your problem could have been solved easily if the doll were your pig

As I was sitting here a strange sensation came over me. A slight flushing of the skin. An almost imperceptible rise in my body temperature. A feeling kind of like claustrophobia but the good kind like when you're being smothered by a nice bosom.

I began to think maybe someone slipped me a mickey . But then I noticed something , a smell I couldn't quite put my finger on. It got stronger and stronger , I could almost taste it. Then I realized what it was .

Bacon I smell Bacon

Was that the effect you were looking for my sweet little flying pig?

And you can poke my effigy all night long in your hottub if you want to.

That's what she said

Good usage! This is a game I play with my buddies all the time. It's amazing how often one can throw in "That's what she said" in the course of normal conversation!!! Gotta bite my tongue in business meetings a lot though.

one of my favorites, "That's what she said at the picnic..." adds just a bit of "WTF" flavoring, IMHO.

and...'that's what she said..'

Ya got me!!!

<See what I mean?>

Tried SIM's used ceramic with my other S51 on the bench. Still no fire. Hmmmmm . . . I can try my other DE lamp just to make certain there's no funny business going on here I'm missing but the evidence points to SIM's lamp somehow being damaged in transit???

@SIM: Your lamp has a rattling sound down at the base. Was that there before you sent it? There's no doubt the lamp was working when you sent it at least as far as you can reasonably determine, correct?

Summed up all the hints I've been getting from the universe over the past umpteen months since I started this blasted project and decided it was time to spend MORE MONEY!!!

To that end I've ordered a few capacitors and a generic 575HMI all off ebay.

Good ole AV has provided me - once again - with some terrific support in the background and I'll be burning the 575HMI with dual S51's. There'll be a hi/low setting and/or warm up/cool down setting the way it'll be wired and I should have no difficulties adding the extra ballast to my monster build. I'll provide a circuit diagram based on a drawing from AV sometime.

There's even more in store. New FS mirror, maybe liquid cooling for CPU & GPU just for fun, a nice custom cover for my OSD-Panel, more RAM, got my eyes on a new video card. The fun will never end.

Of course, I still have to figure out that dratted bleeding problem my panel was displaying first.

I think I'll have some stuff to report in the next two weeks.

Later . . .

As far as I remembered it did work with the 'rattling'. Have you a multimeter to see if your getting power out of the mogul?

Haven't checked the potential across the mogul leads yet. I'm a bit wary due to the high potential there on startup. How's that work? If there's no lamp there does the ignitor "shut down" after some time or shall I just remove it from the damn circuit to be safe?

Another thing I could try is putting in my old ruptured arc tube lamp. I don't think it's a hazard. It just performs a pretty dancing pink arc display when the ignitor tries to start it. Kinda like those novelty globes one can buy whereby placing your hand on the orb results in funky arcs "seeking out" your soul.

Good point, fergot about the ignitor Wouldn't that have been an interesting story if you had tried it How about just out of the ballast then and I guess a 3rd try with your busted lamp wouldn't hurt either.

You peckerhead!!! You've been trying to kill me for a long time now! Muahh-haa-haaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!

I'll figger it owt.

Forgot to mention I'm going to use some electric fence insulators for a reeeeaaallllly niiiiiiiice get-toe 575HMI lamp holder. Stay tuned kids . . .

Nothing like the smell of BAKON in the morning..

Geez, I hope you get this done soon cause I'm worried that termites might have nested, I mean seeing how roaches got to your electricals already

Here's how I'll be burning the 575HMI with dual S51's (idea from AV):

Click to view attachment

Start with the upper ballast, warm up a bit, and then switch in the lower one.

Reverse procedure when shutting down.

Also may be used as a hi/low switch as indicated but I doubt I'll be doing that much.

That upper ballast will be more heavily cooled than the lower one but both will have forced air cooling to some extent.

The precise capacitance values have yet to be determined.

The load on the ballast is the same when on HI so the cooling doesn't really matter but the air does have to go in somewhere so it might as well be the start up ballast.

Edit.

By the way, a two S51 setup will need no active cooling, if you don't mind "normal" ballast temps. I would go for a nice slow, quiet air flow.

As AV stated this setup requires no ballast cooling but I simply stated what I did - "That upper ballast will be more heavily cooled than the lower one but both will have forced air cooling to some extent." - because my build is already dialed in and it's just the way my setup will be working out. I already have one ballast well-mounted within a dedicated "wind tunnel" and like AV said one might as well cool the start up ballast if there's a choice.

I'll post pics if/when I ever finish as well as some pics of my altered setup. I dream of the day I can post in the Completed Projects section.

Only moments ago I opened the box containing my generic 575HMI. Dang but they're soooo small.

Hopefully my capacitors come today. Maybe I'll actually get this thing fired up before summer.

Hey, where's the nipple go with these 575HMI's? Toward reflector, away from reflector, or to one side?

side worked best for me in my set up