Sorry guys....it was that one or this one....

Settle down guys! I'm gonna get booted soon!!!

Awwww!!!! *pouts* Ok, ok... I'll be good.... but I DO think that last one would make a great desktop background for one COOL projector - so cold but OH SO HOT at the same time!!!

holy crap. you better but NSFW in your plog title!

Aww Man...Guss's pictures are broken....;(

There is simply no question in my mind what took place after those quiescently frozen confections were fully consumed. And I'm very, very, very sad I may never see the rest!

I doubt any drips hit any clothing.

C'mon GusF. Gonna send me a Christmas present or what?

Can those be reposted? huh? HUH? HUHHHH????

Ummmm . . . yeah . . . it's a real bummer I can't see them any more.

"Durachko, you got some 'splainin to do!"

Click to view attachment


Its nothing but drudgery if I dont have a big PJ to watch...

Nice points.

Managed to steal a few minutes to make some more "duct work" for my cooling circuit.

Click to view attachment

Don't worry. In a few years it'll all make sense if I ever pare down my gobbledygook into a coherent and concise finished project thread.

Ebay power supply was in the mailbox today. Everything's looking good. Still no means of adjusting my panel settings and don't know when Kontron is going to come through with the OSD-Panel so I ordered a USB-to-Serial cable for my laptop so I can adjust the controller settings on-the-fly. Otherwise I'd be relegated to either moving my only PC with a serial port next to my projector (not likely!) or removing my panel sled and crating it over to my PC to make incremental adjustments (equally unlikely!). Now I'll be able to just setup my laptop next to the projector - theoretically! (Nothing ever works quite the way I think it will.) Funny thing is I'll be using two computers to control one projector.

I'd adjusted my fresnel sled and lightbox for minimal triplet spill and found when I slapped the panel in I had a tiny ('bout the size of a screwdriver handle) bright spot in the middle of my projection screen. I also had unlit right and left edges of my panel since in order to focus the LCD it had to be so far away from the fresnel sled that the light cone was too narrow to illuminate the entire panel. To solve this would require I disassemble my fresnel sandwich sled and widen the openings a bit. Maybe someday but not right now!

Anyway, I just moved the fresnel sled forward a bit keeping the LCD at the spot where it was in focus. This eliminated both the dim - well, unlit really - right and left edges and got rid of the bright spot. Two birds, one stone.

Can anyone enlighten me as to what precisely I was seeing as far as that bright spot is/was concerned? Was it just that I kinda had the arc too much in focus - so to speak? Can't figure why the bright spot was only as big as it was???

The screen door on this WUXGA is amazing compared to the 17" I had. So tiny!

Now if I just have the staying power and perseverance to achieve the final tweaking results some of the other major dudes around here have managed.

Still have a good ways to go but it's nice to be back in an operational state again.

"I'd adjusted my fresnel sled and lightbox for minimal triplet spill"


I think the goal should be even light and the spill will work it self out any way. With a condenser lens things get real touchy as far as adjustment. If you move the lamp around 25% of the focal distance closer, it will be projected onto the screen clear as day, so you want to de-focus the lamp just like you said.

This is sometimes easier with no LCD. There is a yellow effect when the condenser lens is too close to the lamp that can happen too.

From the pattern you said you have with the light cone not covering and the lamp slightly in focus it sounds like you are really close to ideal placement now.

Max brightness is when the condenser is furthest away from the lamp, but this makes the light cone narrower, so if you were not covering the panel and then moved the panel and fresnels slightly further away then your close.


So where is the first screenies?

Thank you AV. That explanation was really very helpful. As per DAZZ's recommendation a long time ago I've practically (if not actually) got the plano touching the lamp shell. I'll have to fiddle around a bit and take some lux readings to see if I'm where I should be with my setup. Screenies? Well . . . I'm kind of hedging because I can't readily access my panel adjustments yet. I need the "OSD-Panel" which is the gizmo allowing access to brightness, contrast, and other settings. I'm not even sure where they're set. HitesFiero could likely tell me since he wrote the firmware. Well . . . maybe I'll post some screenies soon anyway. A little busy what with holiday obligations but I'll see what I can do. And thanks again for your above explanation. Merry Christmas! Raining cats and dogs here right now. Very sloppy. Yuck.

Another way to look at the adjusting process is the range of adjustment the pre-condenser spreadsheet gives.

The range I found is fo the plano to fresnel is 271mm to 267mm.

For the arc to plano was 28mm to 40mm.

The best vingeting and max brightness comes from having the condenser furthest from the condenser which makes the condense to fresnel closer.

You have a vary tight setup.

Your real lamp arc to plano adjustment will have the lamp shell in the way so perhaps 40 to 35mm?

Your plano to fresnel range is small too with only a 4mm range.

I might set the lamparc to plano to 38mm or so and see how it adjust out.

Okay. Here it is Christmas Eve and I'm just getting ready to watch Polar Express sometime soon. So, figured even though I'd not been able to make any fine adjustments at least one screenie was due.

Click to view attachment

And a close-up of one of the bright spots near her ear.

Click to view attachment

We'll see just how much I can improve on this over the course of the next FEW YEARS!!!

Merry Christmas everyone!

Nice. "a few years" lol.

Downloaded the 1080p Ratatouille trailer. Looked quite poor due to no brightness and contrast adjustments so fiddled around with my nVidia settings. WOW!! Much better but at the expense of some mild but noticeable choppy playback. Still some blurriness at my corners so am rethinking the whole pro triplet mod idea. Time will tell . . . but for now movies are looking quite good. It's nice to have a working projector again.

Merry Christmas everyone!

there's a lot of tweeking that you via the OSD. You really need that board.

You're telling ME?!?!?

Hey! Wanna send me yours?

Seriously, I'm a patient guy but they're gonna have the HDCP board version out maybe before the next batch of OSD-Panels!!!

Battling Bill Gates - exorcised the demon out with a regular ritual reformat last night.

Maybe I'll have access to the panel setting via my laptop very soon - maybe. Struggling with some USB-serial adapter driver woes right now.

Made up a louver gizmo to more effectively block light emanating from my light chamber exhaust holes without significantly constricting air flow - theoretically.

Click to view attachment

And so it continues . . .

Watched The Matrix al the way through last night with my neighbor who has been nagging at me to see this thing in action for . . . OMG . . . has it been THAT long?!?! Anyway, he was suitably impressed. Dang thing about that movie is it's kind of dark and odd colored . . . at least on my projector as is.

Good news - I've received word I can get an OSD-Panel if I'm lucky. Three are in stock in CA. I'll contact WDL right after the New Year.

Bad news - well, not bad really - I'm unhappy with the way I've designed things. My metal lightgate (samuraijack rocks) vents directly into my rear light engine compartment. Turns out I now think that's not the way I should have done things. The panel and rear fresnel stay reasonably cool (varies somewhat over the whole face by my point-and-read, non-contact thermometer) like in the vicinity of 85 to 90°F. But the whole thing being painted black soaks up the rays and gets mucho toastero. My Aerogate probes indicate an exhaust temp of around 100°F. Now I think it's cool - so to speak - but I'm wondering if I seal my lightgate and vent it directly to the outside of the enclosure I'd come out much ahead of the game? I'm thinking I will. So, maybe yet another modification is in store for my projector. Or maybe I'm nitpicking.

So many details with these things it's insane. But that's part of the enjoyment. I've reached the point where I'm going to shop for a nice recliner soon. Yeah, now that's livin' large.

I'd also LOVE to see another working projector or two in person. I'm really curious as to what some of the really awesome plogs projections look like in person. Reason is I've seen how pictures from different cameras can look really different and almost find some of the stuff I'm seeing hard to believe. I'm not saying anyone is misrepresenting their results but seeing is believing and I find myself fading into and out of thinking "the image is too green", "the image is too dim", "the image is unbelievably fantastic" while I'm sitting there watching my own dang projector!

Decided to get a baseline on my ANSI lumens. Using Natural Newbie's (paid advertisement) handy spreadsheet I'm at:

18 28 24
25 40 27
25 29 23

Nice balance aside from that bright middle. That bright spot is smack-dab on the middle circle in pgen. Actually, I should fiddle with getting an even better balance. Hmmm . . .

That comes out to:

26 avg lux

69 lumens

56% vignetting

My recollection says with my components I should be able to hit 100+. Comments from you more experienced guys with all those numbers in your heads?

Now a movie. Or book and bourbon? Tough choice.

I haven't followed the full thread so forgive me if I state something that is not right. Here are some ideas.

first, your 400 watt lamp has a 40mm arclength. this is pretty large, although mine was 50mm and I was able to get 107 lumens out. I did use a Venture lamp with a 40,000 initial lumen rating and a high transmisivity panel, though. I assume your lamp is significantly lower, probably closer to 30,000 lumens.

Check the settings on your lcd. Set all filter settings to 100% for now. Check contrast and brightness. these may be set too low.
those settings made a world of difference to my build.

Check how much light spillage is around the triplet. If there is a lot then you may have to readjust the front fresnel distance. I had to readjust mine twice before finding the sweet spot. Of course, if you can, turn on the lamp and adjust the lamp to collimating fresnel distance while looking at the screen. There will be a sweet spot that is not always exactly at the focal length. Of course, depending on you build, this may not be possible. Also, yours is complicated somewhat by the precondesnor.

form what I have been reading, a precondesnor is not that useful for a large arclength bulb. It is best used for small arclength bulbs. AV would know more about it than I, but the precon may be hindering you with this particular setup. I thinbk Brainchild did some experiments a few years ago and concluded that a pre condensor did not offer any significant benefit to the standard 15" build with large arclength bulbs.

Try removing it for now and see what effect that has on your projection. Of course, readjust your lamp to collimator distance.

How about a movie AND bourbon!!!

Thanks phutton. Been awhile. Yes, you are correct that the precon does not necessarily boost lumens but from what I've seen it can boost vignetting. As I've always been toying with the idea of going with a short arc lamp I decided to incorporate a precon into my build initially since I didn't think it would be a hindrance in any way other than a few extra bucks and one more variable. I may just have a go at no precon sometime since you introduced the idea.

I'm still without an easy method of accessing panel settings but that will soon change.

I'm overdriving the lamp somewhat so will assume I'm falling short at my current lumen rating and try to do some tweaking.

@ GusF: You consistently have the BEST suggestions. Just finished Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome and am shutting down for my bourbon and likely some more Robert Jordan.

Ah but it's good to be back viewing again.

Night all . . .

Yeah, you should be able to break 100 lumens.

1. With that vignetting, I'd be looking at lamp placement and alignment. I'd bet that you have a lot of light that isn't hitting the triplet with those numbers (This is usually the culprit for large amounts of vignetting as well.) The centering of the hot spot indicates that your principal axis placement is dead on.

2. Alternately, the fresnel placement can be tweaked. Decreasing the distance from lamp to collimator increases lumens, as my experiments demonstrate, even though it also affects vignetting, all else being equal.

Basically, see if you can get the fresnels to sharpen the focus of the lamp into the triplet entrance, and you'll see an increase in lumens.

I would look at the LCD settings if the light at the triplet looks OK. Sometimes you need to set up the RGB setting in the LCD controller manually if it will let you.

Strangely low readings.

That's the big thing looming over me for the past few weeks. No easy way to access the panel settings. But I'm told the hardware to do that is now in stock so I should have something in a couple of weeks at the outside. I think I'll just lie low until that time . . .

D, I thought I read last when you had your 17" that you were getting way above 100 lumes with something like high 70% vigs. Could the WUXGA be that less transmissive as well?

More and more I suspect something amiss with the default panel settings. I should have kept my mouth shut until I can dig deeper. I will get screen lux readings with and without the panel eventually to see what's up. I've never really checked the transmissivity on this WUXGA. Again, I need to keep my yapper shut and do some legwork. I'm good at shooting off my mouth whilst sitting with my thumbs up my . . . errr . . . never mind.

Edit: But you are correct that something don't add up when comparing to my 17" results. It'll get better . . . I HOPE!!!

Gotts a can of Raid?...Sounds like cockroaches getting in the way, ta me......phhhhppppp

Of course! The cockroaches tuned the PJ for THEIR eyes!

It all makes sense now...

Click to view attachment

"Buzzy? Hey! You should come over tonight!
We are going to mind control the human and watch 'Attack of the Bee Women'!

.....or it could just be the sample image he chose

Click to view attachment

All the panels that have been tested for "transmissivity" Have been fairly close except the one supraguy had.

Jonjandran had a WUXGA and it was nice and bright.

I think the RGB driver is not going to 100% when the video card is at 255.(full red or green.)

If the LCD is clear(ON) when the power is off then take the LUX readings with the LCD off and then with a white screen. any difference is how under driven the LCD driver is.

I found my LG 17" LCD was about 15% under driven. I have not tested my WUXGA yet.

I seem to recall Supra tested his in a "different" way? Not that this would have made the difference though. Wasn't it something like he measured lux at his projection screen with and without the panel in his projector? Can't remember exactly but it was a non-typical method. Not the "benchmark" sunlight test.


Yeah, I definitely have issues with not knowing just what the panel settings are. My WDL contact appears to be on extended vacation so it'll be awhile (hopefully no more than 1 or 2 weeks) until I can get the OSD-Panel for the controller to gain ready access to the panel settings. I just have to be patient. I've ripped apart my lightgate anyway to do some modifications during the down time. I'm currently scouring the store aisles for a tin can of just the right size.


Both my 17" Samsung and this 15.4" Toshiba were/are of a greenish/gray hue when unpowered. To my eyes it always appears as though a white screen (power on) is much brighter than this greenish/gray unpowered screen. I get your drift though. I'll have to check those numbers someday.

Wow Sim, you really should tweak your projection...

It looks.."buggy"...

Yeah, I did not do a sunlight test, so my measurement is somewhat different from what other people's would be.

I did lux measurements with my projector with the LCD sled removed, and with it installed, so that gives me the transmissivity of the panel with the projector lamp, which may not be the same as it is with sunlight. (In fact, I guarantee that it isn't.) It is, however, the statistic that I was actually interested in.

Even then, I got a number that was like 8.9% or so, which isn't THAT far off from what other people were getting.

I would defiantly say that the brightness and contrast settings are your biggest problem since there still at the same point where I had them set for development.

I tossed my fully stripped 14.1 on my 3M 9550 OHP the night before last and it was very dark.
I raised the 2 levels and it looked like a million.
Get the OSD panel and start tweaking.

Figured as much.


I'm trying, I'm trying!!!!

Which brings up this question. Do peeps normally set brightness to MAX for their lumie tests or use the settings for viewing? Setting to MAX is kinda cheating. I seem to recall Natural Newbie listed both "raw" and "calibrated" which are probably the two settings I'm talkin' 'bout here.

I think I'll call WDL again RIGHT NOW!!!!!

hmmm... didn't HF say that you could change settings without the OSD panel if you used the serial connection to the controller board ? ... maybe a short term solution ??

It's really funny how LCD transmissivity numbers seem to vary so much... just 1% makes a big difference in lux measurements. You only have one side of your panel stripped, so maybe that glossy side is interfering with spillage at the triplet. ?? Just thinkin' out loud...

I think you need a DaLite High Power !

For my lumen tests, I did 2 sets for comparison. One with the LCD off. In it's off state, the LCD is as transparent as it can get, so this should give you the highest readings. I then did one with it on, and white at the measurement points. In my case, I got the same numbers (Or within a couple of lux) with the LCD on and white as I did with it off. This obviously means that the RGB on my LCD is set to 100% -- or is at least WORKING as 100%.

@GS: I know a certain someone who'd call you a screen wienie!!! My situation is as follows:

I can access the panel settings but would either have to remove the entire sled from the projector and remove the controller from the sled or perhaps move my desktop PC over to the projector to do so. It's hard to explain - or at least longer than I want to do.

I bought a USB-serial adapter for my laptop but the #%!#^*~ thing won't work. It drives a DataQ module just fine but won't play nice with da steenkin' controller. WDL is unresponsive to my recent inquiries since HF told me Kontron has the damn OSD-Panels in stock. I've got my lightgate gutted for mods/up(down?)grades.

This sums it up nicely: Durachko is a worthless piece of pooshnickity.

But it's been a fun ride getting to this point and will continue to be . . .

dam D, your really quite a freak!!

Click to view attachment

Ooooo thtop it you thilly THIM!!! <I knew that senior prom pic would come back to haunt me.>

GOOD NEWS from WDL!!!

I'm back in the office now.

We ordered the part number you requested and they confirmed that we should have it here Monday. I'll let you know when it arrives.

BAD NEWS (it's a disease I tell ya):

Click to view attachment

Well, the ceramic 400W has been sitting around waiting and just looking soooooo lonely I thought I might as well blow some time refitting my gutted lightbox for that. SIM's comparisons and experimentation as well as opinions by some other noteworthy members have led me to believe I may enjoy the colors from it more than what a MH lamp will give me. So, what the heck. The shell is pushing what the pro reflector will accomodate but it's close and nothing ventured nothing gained. Also, I can always swap in a notched ladle reflector or sumpin. Here's where I am as of now:

Click to view attachment

This setup will allow me to swap back in my MHDE lamp without much effort. I also have enough degrees of freedom with this rig to make the adjustments (rotational, lateral, etc.) necessary to get a T15 lamp right where it belongs. Should I decide to stay with the ceramic then I guess I'll auction that off. Still need to get my precon back in place allowing for a certain adjustable range of distance from the arc but that's all figured out and shouldn't take any more time than I have at my disposal during the rest of today (or, at worst, during the time until my OSD-Panel shows).

I'm also "sealing" the lightbox for direct venting to outside my enclosure while I'm at it. I'll show that once it's done.

Should have the Kontron OSD-Panel within one week.

Really looking forward to comparison shots and your opinion on what projection you get off the bulb, D.

Surely you jest?! I've got almost zilch for comparison and if the ceramic suits my fancy I may never swap the MHDE back in. I mean, it HAS been over 2 years since I've started this!!! But SIM, I'll see what I can do. In total honesty though I may find it VERY hard to revert once I'm sitting pretty.

I’ve been considering that lamp for a while now, that is the Phillips HPS retrofite, right? Are you running an S51 ballast?

Yessir. Click here.Yessir again. Gotta review whether I should pull my overdrive cap. AV? SIM? You guys check in just lemme know. Currently have an extra 5.7uF. Click here.