Hi everyone, this is my first post in this forum. A couple of days ago I was very close to buy one of those crappy lens on ebay, luckily I hit this website before doing such a thing.

Now, let's go to the point: I don't have a 15" monitor therefore I'll have to buy one to make a Pj. Same thing for the lens, for the light and all the other stuff.

Today I found this pj: NEC Projector

The cost is not that high (roughly 700 Euros) and it comes with a res of 1280x1024.

That being said, I'm not a tech guy therefore I still don't know how to distinguish a good product from a crappy one.

Should I try to make my own pj (maybe with a 17" to get 1280x1024...but with the new PRO lens it would cost quite a lot) or should I go for this cheap "already made" one?
One more thing:if I get the new PRO lens and I use a 19" (SyncMaster 913N 800:1 contrast, 8ms latency,1280x1024) what would basically be the difference from let's say a 15" or 17" (beside the resolution)?


Sorry for my English and thank you very much for your help!!!!!!!

Its not a 1280x1024 it is a 800x600 that will down sample a 1280x1024 to 800x600.
17" gets you 1280x1024, there really isn't any benifit to going with a 19". 15" are only 1024x768.

thanks for the info, I didn't see that the native res was 800x600

Would you suggest me to go for a DIY 15", DIY 19" (it's the only LCD I have ATM) or for the NEC "thing"?

For cost benefit,t he DIY 15" is hard to beat.

If you're going to get the higher res, then get a 17" monitor. You may already have the 19", but a 17" will be a better choice, and the 17" panels are readily available and reasonably inexpensive.

For either the 17" or 19", you're looking for the pro lenses. For the 15" either the standard or pro lenses will do the job nicely. The pro lens is still better, though.

DIY!

Even if you basically have little or no knowledge, you can study up, get creative, and have some fun along the way. For some folks (like me!) its the build, for others its the result.

But there is no feeling quite like being able to show someone your PJ and saying "Yep, I did it myself!"
The experience of doing a little mental work and gaining some basic skills is great, but in the end, you get to watch what you have built.
Start with a 15 and just play with it. Then do whatever you want.

You will have fun!

Promise!

SJ.

to echo SamuraiJack, diy is the way to go, I hadn't even looked at a saw since I was a little kid and I have had so much fun(and being frustrated is part of the fun building mine its unbelievable..... I would recommend studying the compatible monitors list if you wan to do it on the cheap and hit ebay.... one thing to always rememebr is not only the cost of a comparable commercial pj but replacement bulbs... if you only are going to watch a movie once in a while, well, maybe commercial is the way to go, but if you plan on watching movies,tv etc more than an hour or two a day, the only way to go is build your own.... and its not really hard, I only used a coping saw, a drill and a saw I got from a flea market.... and lots of duct tape ;-)

Thanks!!

Buying the Pro lenses would give me a quality comparable to a medium quality pj or the difference would be noticeable? Is there a big difference between the standard and the pro lenses?
And after the colors and the image are calibrated do I need more tuning or I have to setup everything for every movie/game I see/play?

I'm sorry to bother this much but I'm really a noob in this field, I read a lot around but still the questions pop up from my brain.

I think with a 17" (I would get one with good latency and high contrast) + lenses + everything needed = about 650 euros..............that's not so cheap but if the quality is good/more than good then I think I'll place an order pretty soon, even though I don't think I'll get the package before Xmas.....I live in Italy and here the customs and postal services are umbelivably awful!!!

Sorry again!!!!!

Thanks Samuraijack & mikyd1954!!!

I will use it massively cause I won't just connect my pc to watch movies and play games but also an xbox360 and a ps2. That's why I wanted a good quality image.

If you were me: -Pro or Standard lenses for this first try?
-15" or 17" (if the only difference is the resolution than I would use a good 15")

People in this forum are amazing!!! it's rare to get so many nice answers in such a little time!!

I always tell people in the public forums that the LL fee was by far the best 20$ I have ever spent(and I've spent a lot) ...anyway... I would suggest a 15" standard LL design pj to start with, although you can get a good picture with the 17" and the standard lens, or you can do what I am currently doing and use powerstrip to run a 1024x768 window in my latest lcd(17") until I can afford the pro lens and larger fresnels...but you can't go wrong with the standard 15".... then for your first upgrade(trust me, you'll be hooked;) youcan try a haasman style case or go vertical.... but if you haven't done a lot of DIY stuff, the plain vanilla rectangular box doesn't get any easier than that, and really, its pretty simple once you get the lcd stripped..and there I would suggest trying a known good monitor that has some nice stripping pictures on here.... as for resolution, well, it would be nicer to have more pixels but really, unless you're really a purist, I can't imagin it making that much difference, at least to begin with... I had a couple of friends over after I got the first iteration done, and let me tell you, the "cool/wow!" factor is pretty good ...

you could always look on ebay, shipping might be more but I got my latest 17" for $32.50 US because the backlight was dead(i admit I got pretty lucky though and took a chance).... you might also shop around for older,used lcds locally... get a cheap one and build your pj and then you'll know a lot better what you would like... I'm glad I didn't buy a brand new monitor! it might not have been perfect but I learned enough that I knew much more about what I needed...plus I wasn't so paranoid about breaking it..quality wise? well, commercial have way better brightness its true, but if we wanted to spend 400$ for a bulb every 3-4 months we could have that brightness to.... the brightness of a standard LL pj is great unless you want to watch it in the bright lights! and then, even the commerrcial ones aren't that great either...

I'll take your suggestion. A used 15" (wish I could be as lucky as you, but it's going to be hard ) and a standard lenses set.........even though i'm really attracted by the pro lenses......wish I could see someone's pj using that set.

Do you know anybody who actually used a overhead projector? Actually it should work the same way, am i wrong?

well, so far I have gotten 2 - 40$ 15" lcdsand one 32$ 17" off ebay..mostly because they were offbrand ones and the 17" I wasn't sure was strippable and it came without the buttons but I took a shot..I'd write down every monitor listed and just keep it handy.... it took about 2-3 weeks each to find and I passed up a number of others because poepl just pay crazy prices for broken lcds sometimes.... but considering a new one will cost at least 125$ what the heck ;-) there is a guy selling benq 15" for 140 plus shipping in one of the threads here though(brand new)..shipping and customs would be the big thing for you.... I'm guessing they have an italian ebay? and if you live in a big city they must have used pc stores? really, for your first try as long as the response time is 25-30 ms thats great for movies and tv and contrast of >= 300:1 .... you can find something cheap if you want(or need) to, it just takes patience... good luck! my whole pj cost like 225$ mostly because of the cheap lcd...and cheap wood !

It depends on your goals. If you want to do it for your personal satisfaction, learn a little bit about optics, improve your carpentry skills, impress your friends, have lots of time and are looking for a new hobby, then build your own.

If you expect good quality, want a convenient piece of equipment, want to save money, time and mess, then go to the store and buy a projector. Even an entry level "no-name" one will give you quality, that we DIY-ers can only dream about.

Regards

Don't be modest!! You guys work is amazing and what you are able to do is over the top. I saw many people projectors in this forum and let me tell, the video quality looks stunning, not that much to envy to the store projectors.

My problem is the time, i don't have that much free time in this period. I know quite a lot about electronics, a little about optics and,well, carpentry skill has to be drastically improved.

It's your decision. You have been warned

Regards

I simply reiterate that the light output is not up to commercial standards, other than that a diy can match any reasonably priced pj...I have watched many movies and tv shows on mine...it is addictive though, both the building and the watching!..you have been warned

Well, as the only member currently with a Pro Lens projector, I have a thread in the gallery (Preliminary Pro Lens Results) so you can see.

The light output isn't up to commercial projector standards, true. But other than that, pepe, I will stand by the projection quality of the DIY easily. The resolution is already well into the multiple thousand dollar projectors' range, $4000 gets you into the range of what I've got, and replacement lamps are $600+ The cheap entry-level projectors just don't do a true 720p resolution. Period.

The "expensive" element to the DIY projector is time. It does take that to do the job right. I'll admit that I took shortcuts that I'm not entirely pleased about getting my projector ready. Things I'd have done differently, if I'd had the time. But on the whole, I'm quite satisfied with my projector and results. The issue of brightness isn't a problem for me, because I have the projector in a basement with no windows, so the only source of light is the projection. I don't have a high gain screen, just a flat white painted section of wall.

For the picture quality, I see no reason why you can't have image quality that rivals decent commercial units.

indeed, the shots i saw in these days sport an amazing quality. Brightness it`s not an issue to me because I have a completely dark room. I`d like to ask one last thing, I have access to some pretty high quality 3M`s overhead projectors (about 4000 lumen, a fresnel lens and a triplet), before buying all the necessary stuff I`d rather try the lcd panel with one of these. The point is: is the quality going to be much worse than any DIY projector or I can expect to get a pretty good result?

@SupraGuy: is there a way to use the standard lenses with a bigger fresnel lens in order to use a 17" lcd panel without losing quality on the edges? I`d love to get the Pro, but being my first experiment I don`t feel confident enough to try the big shot. Moreover the standard are really cheap, if everything goes well I`ll use them for a 7" I don`t use anymore and the Pro for a 17"
BTW, your experiment with the pro lenses looks gorgeous. Beside some overbright area the images look stunning!! And if I didn`t get it wrong you still have to make an accurate calibration! Top notch stuff!!!!


Thanks again to everyone!!

Hello pottinus, I am also like yourself in the decision moment to DIY or not to DIY..

I am a happy DIY:er in other fields and don't mind wasting time and effort into something that I am really interested in.

But from the information I have gathered, this is my conclusion regarding the LL DIY projector:

A DIY projector built using the 400W MH lamp seems to be *very* light inefficient.
I just heard about a lumenrating ranging around 200-300lumen, which in comparision to even the crappiest commercial
is really bad (most have 800-1500lumen). However I'm very unsure about this figure, as no one seems to have measured the actual light output from a DIY projector.

Also even the cheapest home cinema commercial projector have much higher contrast ratio than the best regular LCD panels (we are talking multiple factor)

Besides that, I sure don't have to point out how large and ugly these beasts are.
Haasmaas or whatever the design is not much smaller (or prettier)... There is a reason why good design costs ..

In my opinion the only real advantage of a DIY is the long life of the bulb and the cheap price to have it replaced (and of course to build the system).
Having HD resolution in regard to these other factors, seems pretty meaningless in the context.

I do not want to disencourage you pottinus, but keep in mind the result of a DIY projector might not be what you expected.

Btw. the projector you had picked seems to be made for the conference room rather than home cinema, with high lumen and low contrast.
Around the same price I can recommend you: HITACHI PJ-LC9 or BENQ 5120.
They are almost similar but the latter has 2000:1 contrast and DLP technology.
In disregard to the price I can warmly recommend the SANYO Z3 (or new Z4). The Z4 has - get this - 7000:1 contrast ratio and is HD ready (€1400MSRP).

MNA:

Many of us HAVE measured the lumen output of the DIY projector, but most of those threads are in the protected area of the forum.

For what it's worth, I've also measured a few commercial projectors, and the results may surprise you.

My standard lens projector measured just shy of the 200 lumen mark, which you may think sounds really low. But then I measured the projector at the office, rated for 1100 lumen. I got a measurement of 250, with a brand new lamp, and not on economy mode. Another projector rated at 1500 lumens got a measurement of 525. (Not exact measurements, just approximate from memory.)

So yes, the measurement was lower, but not by as much as you might think. I'd think that a typical range for an average builder may be 100-200 lumens. While this is a weak point of a DIY projector, IMO, it's only a factor if you plan to use it where you cannot control ambient light. There's also some excellent research into DIY screens in the forum with promising results.

So, if you want to have a projector for use in daylight hours in a room with lots of windows, DIY may not do it for you. If you plan to watch in the evenings, or have a means of making the room actually DARK, it'll work fine.

While I was playing with things, I had the projector at a measured worst of 45 lumens. This was with misaligned optics, so most of the light was not hitting the triplet. I was astounded by that measurement, because I had lights on in the room, yet the projection was still watchable. More washed out than usual, true, and if I turned on the light right in front of the screen, it was no longer watchable. But with the light about 12' away from the screen, it was okay for TV usage. Currently, with the pro lens, I have a best measurement of 220 lumens, on a 75" screen. It's easily watchable with the lights on for TV viewing.

For contrast ratio, the way we see is not linear. Once the contrast ratio gets above about 400:1 or so, the advances become very incremental. 800:1 is barely distinguishable from 400:1, and even 1600:1 would only be small steps better. In fact, unless you were closely examining the two side by side, I doubt that you'd ever see the difference. Besides, contrast ratio in projection is ultimately decided by ambient light, since you can't get blacker than black.

I've done a side-by side compare, my standard lens 15" vs. the boardroom XGA projector. They came out about equal.

If you come on a DIY site and ask if you should go DIY then don't be surprised when everyone says to go DIY.

OK here's my take:

700 euros is equivalent to $825 USD. IF it is used then you will propably have to buy a new bulb. If so add another $300 or so USD. A DIY projector will realistically cost you anywhere from $500 to $750, depending on how much advanced planning you use. I am still assuming all new parts. I would actually recommend all new parts, since most people who try to cut corners when they first start end up buying the new parts anyways.

If you plan on only watching movies with your projector then it's a toss up between the commersial NEC and a DIY. The commercial will be brighter, but the DIY will have better resolution. Also keep in mind that DIY is variable from builder to builder. Some people just plain mess up their builds and do nothing but complain (ahem...coughpepecough). Some people pay particular attention to the details and build a projector that has plenty good brightness. A commercial will give you a known product and repeatable quality from projector to projector.

If you want to use your projector as your main television set or to watch HDTV on a daily basis then your best option is to go DIY. A commercial projector's bulb is just too expensive and short lasting for daily use. A DIY bulb is about $65 to replace and lasts about 10,000 hours, realistically. Also, the native resolution of a 15" lcd and the standard triplet is more than good enough to provide good quality HDTV. Some people will say that it isn't true HDTV, but in my opinion you probably won't see much difference between 720p scaled down to typical 15" resolutions, unless your screen is very, very large.

If you go DIY I would recommend going with the standard lens and a 15" or 17" lcd. If you plan on only watching movies then the 17" gives the best performance to price ratio since you will not have to worry about the corner brightness for 16:9 aspect ratio. If you plan on watching television then the 15" will probably have better corner to corner brightness for the full screen (4:3 aspect ratio). I consider the pro lens still too new to be reliable. Also the standard lens is not that expensive, so if you want to upgrade to Pro later on it wouldn't be that much wasted money.

If size is a concern then go with a Hassman formfactor.

That's all I can think of for now.

Good luck whatever you decide.

That is it, I think I decided. From the comments here and in other 3ds I understood that a DIY might not be the final solution if you are just going to watch a movie once in a while.
As I said, in my case I`m going to use it in a massive way: movies, console games and pc. I`m afraid with a commercial pj the bulb will last no more than 5/6 months as it looks like no one of these bulbs last the stated 2k/3k hours.
That would raise the cost of the commercial one drastically.

Thanks to anyone for the big help

I just bought a Ilo L15FCBT on ebay. Probably it`s a crappy monitor but i got it for 60 euro and it sports a good 1280x1024@75Mhz and a contrast of 400:1. The latency probably is awful (i think 30ms) but that`s ok, i can deal with some ghosting.

Hopefully there won`t be a problem disassembling it.....I`m just afraid about the flat cable lenght......actually i`m scared about it

well,I`ll keep my fingers crossed.

pottinus,

what you bought is a 15" LCD... I will almost guarentee you that it is a 1024x768 panel, which should refer to it's "native resolution", meaning that is physically how many pixels make up the panel. The 1280x1024 that you are referring to is most likely the "maximum resolution". A 15" LCD may accept a 1280x1024 signal, but it will need to scale that down to fit 1024x768. Mostly 15" panels are 1024x768, and 17" & 19" panels are 1280x1024.... these are just general rules to live by...

As for DYI vs. non-DYI : This really comes down to how much you enjoy doing things yourself. This is a great project, but it can consume a vast amount of time. Great results are not hard to achieve, but reading and research can take quite a bit of time. If money were no object, I would buy a commercial unit, place it in the living room and enjoy the higher brightness provided by commercial units (WAF much higher too)... then I would build another DIY projector in my basement... probably build it a few times over... is so much fun... and addictive... then again, I like to tinker...

oh boy, you are right, it`s 1024x768

well, at least it supports the 720p signal (I really need it for the x360) even though there will be a loss of quality.

As for the commercial projector I really cannot get it right now. I just bought a 360 and I don`t want to spend more money in a low quality pj. Better to save something building a DIY pj and wait for a richer time

moreover I love doing stuff myself

.....................damn, I`m still angry about that 1280x1024.........3 out of 4 webistes said it was 1280 without even mentioning that the native res was 1024. I read on tomshardware that there are some 15" 1280x1024 out there, I thought I was really lucky to find one so easily...........never been more wrong

careful now... 720P resolution is 1280x720, so having 720P on a 15" (1024x768) monitor is still going to have to scale, all though it will scale down, so your quality will still be good. In order to get 720P without scaling you would still need to get a 17" or 19" monitor (1280x1024).

regardless, I think the 15" will work just fine with the xbox360, but of course time will tell as you've already purchased the 15" so you'll see for yourself.

How do you know that your DIY projector will last that long, who promised you that? We don't know it yet, perharps bulbs can really last several thousands hours (with gradually diminishing light output), but no one knows about LCD, what happens if it's constantly exposed to elevated temperatures, even those plastic fresnel pseudo-lenses might die due to uv, heat, or just get crappy with time, like most plastics do. So, don't assume you will use your projector "forever", because nobody has confirmed this yet.

And there are now commercial projectors with bulbs rated for 6000-8000 hours. Even if you are an addicted maniac, and will be watching two movies every day, a 6000hrs bulb will last over 4 years, that means you will sooner buy a new projector, before you will need a new bulb. But there may be also catastrophic bulb failure after several hundreds hours, you never know it. And the same might happen to the LCD in your DIY pj.

Regards

do you have a link for one of those projectors with 6000-8000 hour bulbs? I'd be interested in reading about it...

Well, about the LCD I cannot tell, I`m going to do my best to keep it cool, I have 2 huge fans waiting to be pushed to the edge.


As far as i know those plastic lenses are the very same of those overhead projectos` lenses used in schools, and they do last.....well, not forever....but for sure a really long time. Said that, the fresnel lens is pretty cheap, and I can tell for sure the triplet lenses are not going to have any damage due to the light.

How much does this 6k hours pj cost? I`m sure it is way beyond a $1000.

I got the LCD for 60 bucks, I`ll get the lenses soon for about 50 euro (thx to the dollar/euro change) + shipment and I`ll get the bulb and the ballast here in Italy for about 70 euro. I don`t think I`ll go over 300 euro. What would i buy with those money in a store? many things but for sure not a pj.

The quality will be probably less being this my first experiment. The brightness won`t be good as well but still I think I will be able to enjoy this puppet.

While there are no guarantees, obviously, let's examine some of the costs...

For most of the projectors that I looked at the lamps cost $400 and up. Some were as high as $800 for the lamp alone, granted those are higher lumen output. Most of these are rated for 3000 hors or less, though there's often an economy mode which can extend the life of the lamp considerably. Since we're obviously not comparing lumens for lumens, let's assume that you're using that.

So the bulb dies prematurely. In the commercial unit, that's a cost of at least $400. For the LL, it's a cost of $50. Say that you do something really dumb with your LL projector, and break the lamp, the LCD and the fresnels all in one fell swoop. You're still looking at a replacement cost similar to or less than that commercial projector lamp. Some people HAVE had their projector for a couple of years now. Mine's been going for 11 months, and it's been getting heavy use. So if you were to take as "regular maintenance costs" a new set of fresnel lenses, and a lamp on a yearly basis, and a new LCD every 3 years or so, your maintenance costs are STILL lower than that of a commercial projector needing just a new lamp every 2 years. (And there's no way that I'll accept that short a lifespan on the DIY components as typical.)

And there's an advantage to the DIY that the commercial projector cannot match. If next year, or the year after a better LCD panel (Higher contrast ratio, faster response, better resolution, better colour, etc) becomes available, there's no reason why I can't just upgrade my DIY projector. Then I get a projector with the new specifications for the cost of a monitor. Already, I have full 720p capability, should a panel become available that allows me 1080p or better resolution, I can simply upgrade the panel for a lot cheaper than I could buy a new commercial projector with that kind of capability. I can upgrade other components, too without needing to buy a whole new unit, though the image source is obviously the most important.

And maybe for you, a $3000 investment is something that you'll replace in 3 or 4 years ($3000 is a CHEAP 720p projector!) but not for me. I'm still using the $400 TV set that I bought in 1993, and I plan on using it for more years to come. I plan on using this projector for a good long time, and seeing just how long the useful life span of this lamp (And the next one!) really is. I know that I dislike consumables costs. I use my inkjet printer less than I'd like, because I don't like the cost of the ink cartriges, for example. I don't want to have to worry about the cost of the lamp every time I turn on the projector. With a $400+ lamp, I know that I would be.

Anyway, I've said my piece in this thread.

yes yes, i knew 720p equals to 1280x1024. I`m just glad I can try to output the 720p downscaled to 1024...........well,it`s kind of pointless.......but u know, I made the mistake already, I have to find some good point, even though there isn`t any

@SupraGuy: I agree with everything you said. I`m in the same boat, I don`t want to spend kkk of euros for an object that I will probably have to change in a few years to be update. The only question I still have is: with a totally dark room (100% dark) and a powerful bulb is there a chance that I will feel like:" meh, I wish it was brighter" or not? I know the answer is very subjective but looking objectively at the screen anybody can honestly tell if it`s good that way or if it could be a lot better (just talking about brightness, not quality of the video).
I hope what I asked is understandable, I wrote it down without thinking if it was grammatically correct or not.

pottinus, I am happy with the brightness of my pj when watching a movie. Would I like to make it a little brighter, probably. I still have tweaking to do and some extreme mods but the level of brightness I have now works great for me for the amount of time I have put into it. As a matter of fact it is very comfortable to my eyes and I don't want to get too much brighter. I of course don't watch movies with the lights on. I like the theater feel. This subject though is very subjective and some don't get as good of results due to poor craftsmenship and then just want to constantly complain.

SupraGuy laid out the pros and cons very well. Most people here like to tinker and build things and that is why we do it. Also most of us could afford to go out and buy a commercial pj if we wanted to. But for me I would be a wreck. I would constantly be worrying about someone leaving it on and wasting bulb life. The LL pjs work great. If you are on a budget and want to take a great but addictive ride then by all means build one. If you don't want the hassles and you don't mind the cash for bulbs then definitely go out and buy a commercial pj.

There is no "chance", you can be pretty sure you will be missing more brightness. Why do you think all the commercial projectors are like 1000lm or more, if our 50-150lm would be plenty? So, 35W lamp would be enough, no problem with cooling, noise, etc., why bother with 150-250W lamp? All you can get with less than 200lm output is a barely watchable image, especially if you want a big screen (like 3m wide). Sure you can watch movies, but some people claim they can do it with their "tv-fresnel projector".

Supra: you are comparing apples to oranges. You don't need to buy a 3000$ projector to beat our DIY. It's enough if you buy a 600$ projector, 800x600 DLP, it will blow away our "coffins" in every aspect (brightness, contrast, colours, sharpness, size, flexibility, ease of use, reliability, and price too!), no matter what LCD you have put inside it.

mikyd: here you have one of those http://www.ally3.com/products_l.asp?id=140
This projector uses standard MH double-ended bulb, 250W if I remember correctly. I don't know the quality of this projector, it's only an example of long lamp duration.

Regards

Well as far as the 360 goes I have no idea if it will scale to 1024x576 etc as I unfortuntatly don't have one. But I can say as far as brightness goes, I have my unit in a 100% ambient light controlled room. No windows what so ever, and my lighting was aranged in a way that no light from the overhead light in the room reaches my screen. I basically ran a 2x4 framework that and drywalled it up, that goes the width of my room at the location the projector is hung. The drywalled beam is about 18" tall and my overhead lighting is right behind it on the non screen side. This made it so I can have lighing in my room if wanted that did not effect the screen it worked very well.

And in this setting my screen has execellent brightness, bright scenes have plenty of punch and I did not have to saturate my dark scenes to acheive a nice bright picture. And contrast is execellent, even more so due to the limited lumens my unit produces ( I have not tested mine but from what people are saying in the 200 range) that turns out to be a great thing in my case. As my panel is a 450:1 contrast so if I am only pulling 200 lumens that gives me a blackness rating of 0.44 with true black being 0.00. If I had say 1000 lumen hitting my screen I would have a blackness rating of 2.22 which would be horrific, my blacks would be bright grey. So personally I am glad my unit is lumen challenged, as my contrast and brightness are execellent at this level in my room setting. If I had a bright room that would be a different story of course, I would want higher lumen and would need a much higher contrast panel as well or blacks would well suck.

And with the pro lense set up if people are pulling 220 lumens with a 800:1 panel that would be amazing contrast black levels of .275 or damn near true blacks. Hell comercial units like the sanyo Z2 are 800 lumen and 1300:1 contrast but that gives them a .615 black level. So a LL unit with 220 lumen and 800:1 contrast would be much more pleasant to view in a light controlled room. But the Z2 would be more tollerant of stray light. So for me in a light controlled enviroment I would much rather have a LL unit and then the cost of bulbs just multiplies my choice.

Granted higher end units get better as they go up but so does there cost, a Z3 is 800 lumen 2000:1 contrast or a .4 black rating. The Z4 has very nice specs at 1000 lumen and 7000:1 or a .14 black rating. But for my dollar I am glad I made the choice I did.

I still don't know anybody in this forum but it looks like you are quite disappointed with your choice of making a DIY pj, am i wrong?
For me is too late to go back as I paid already the 15" lcd, but as a support I can read many posts from people that are actually happy with their results, and it doesn't look they are faking satisfaction.
Since I have to buy "everything else", should I get the bulb and the ballast from LL or I should look other stores like hidirect?!
Thank you everyone!! I hope you'll see my work before next summer when probably there will be 3d projectors

Thanks for this complete explanation. I'm not sure I got 100% out of it due to my lack of knowledge but still it's really awesome to see how much we can learn from a self made project like this one.
I'm glad you got a good result, I just hope I'll be able to emulate you

as for the bulb and ballast, it depends, th eballast here at LL has been "improved" to correct some possible prolems and the nice thing about it is that it can run pretty much any 400 watt bulb, giving you choices between more lumens or better colors etc, pretty good price too, I plan on getting one soon, that being said I have a 250 watt coil and core ballast and bulb from hidirect.com and have been very pleased with it and its cost.... the main difference is cost(eballast costs more but is more versatile) and weight/heat(magnetic ballast is pretty darn heavy and gets fairly hot, while eballast is much lighter-imporant for ceiling mounting) and doesn't give off nearly as much heat..so it just depends on your cost constraints more than anything... you'd probably be happier with the eballast(or any electronic ballast LL or not) in the long run....

God no a cheap 800x600 would only have the following edges BRIGHTNESS, SIZE, ease of use (due to room considerations and mounting), in my area the cheapest units are the 800x6000 benq's at around 850 canadian new, with 2000 ansi lumen and a contrast of 2000:1 it would have horrific black levels of 1.00

And its resolution would be smoked as it only has 480,000 pixels of data, where a 17 inch LL unit has 1,310,720 so the LL unit would have resolution hands down, contrast/blackness due to lumen to contrast ratings hands down.

Colours, well I have only compared my unit to a buddies shitty infocus X1 and my colours were much better (again in a controlled ambient setting)

Sharpness, again this falls back to the resolution, due to massive increase in raw pixels the LL unit is going to much sharper then a 800x600 comercial.

Reliability, hell what to break in a LL unit, its a simple design with minimal parts, and to top it off if it does break I can fix it. And not have to ship the damn thing away for repair

Price, hell I built my xga unit for 650 canadian including my screen, and that was with all brand new parts. My buddy who used to own the X1 built his for 300 canadian as he used all used pawn shop parts minus the LL optics. And I know I could build a pro lense 1280x1024 unit for less then a new 800x600 commercial unit in my area. And bulbs as the second factor, I would have to say price again hands down LL.

Mike, no offence, but it's kind of a "commercial language" what you are using here It's not a "choice" between more lumens or better colours, my English is not brilliant, but I would call it a compromise, or a tradeoff, not a "choice". You can have either good colours, or somewhat more lumens, but you need both!

Pottinus: I'm not dissapointed, just realistic. Do you know anybody building a tv-set? Perharps you don't, and why?

Regards

well, If I can choose between a bulb with more lumens or a bulb with better colors.....I pretty much consider that "making a choice" ...... pretty much EVERY choice you ever make in life is a "tradeoff" or a "compromise"

because most of the people are lazy?!

How many people are willing to start learning all this stuff? a very few, because it takes time and because it's not that user friendly.

I jumped in, because it looks like a fun challenge.

So, now you suggest me in a honest way: what light and ballast shoud i get? And don't tell me, I know already that they are not going to give me anything close to a commercial pj.

PS your english looks good to me..........maybe because mine is much worse

Honestly I think I'm getting the: Kt002 240V EU Mega-Projector Kit
even though I'm afraid about the bulb. Does this bulb improve the lumen or the colors? I'm sorry I don't know anything but until I get that pack I won't be able to access the "info area".

Is there someone who used that pack? I checked many pj but almost all of 'em were highly personalized.

Hi. Welcome to the forums. I'll try to help you out as best as I can. I consider myself one of the extreme modders on this site, and I have built a LL 15" kit probably to its fullest capability, with not much room for improvement. Went from this bulb to that bulb, this screen to that screen, this reflector to that reflector, etc.
I even took off the a/g off the 15" LCD and bought a HIGH POWER Da-lite screen which almost triples your light output, which itself cost about $270 shipped(size dependent). I bought all new parts, the total came out to like $900 including the screen.

My LL projector was a 15" xga screen (450:1 contrast) with no antiglare, with the LL lighting kit, standard fresnels and triplet, Ikea reflector. Inside was painted black and all lighting was controlled, no leaks. My LL was only used in 16:9 mode, which was 1024x576 resolution.

I also have a commercial projector that I just bought this week. A Sanyo PLV-Z1. 3-LCD system with a true 16:9 ratio, 966x544 resolution. 700 lumens(620lm true tested) with 800:1 contrast(tested at higher than 900:1) with a bulb that will probably max last about 2000-3000hrs.

My comparisons:

Brightness: LL vs. Commercial - LL cannot come close to the brightness of a commercial. The LL suffers from uneven lighting and pretty low lumens maxing out at around 200lumens. Some programs don't need much lumens to view, but some programs do. So the LL projector is sometimes only good for certain things. Dark scenes in movies and games are really not that watchable unless you raise the gamma or brightness, but it will tend to washout the picture a bit. Preference is key here, and compromises will have to be made. The commercial unit can be TOO bright, I have to use lower power mode to keep it easy on the eyes.
WINNER : Commercial

Resolution: LL vs. Commercial - LL takes a small lead in this one. going from 1024x576 to 964x544 is not really that noticeable here, but there still is a difference. This is the best part about LL, you can change panels for better resolution.
WINNER : LL

Contrast/Color Saturation: LL vs. Commerical - Once again LL can't hold a candle to commercial. The LL just can't provide the color saturation a commercial unit can produce. Although you may be using a high contrast monitor, it loses some contrast through the projection, making colors seem faded.
WINNER: Commerical

Sharpness: LL vs. Commercial - No contest here. Commercial has much more sharpness and is much crisper. However, this can also be a bad thing. If you have low resolution and great sharpness, screen door is more noticeable. But if your resolutions are similar, the sharpness makes the projection look truer, less soft. LL suffers from uneven focus, can't really fix that, but for movies and games you don't notice it, but if your browsing with it and word processing, it gets annoying. Don't use LL for word processing .
WINNER : Commercial

Size: LL vs. Commercial - Bleh, LL is HUGE!!! If you don't have room for LL, its really gonna get in the way of things, if you ceiling mount it like I did, it will suffice, but it won't look pretty. Personal preference is a huge factor in this one. Some can live with it, some can't. My mom made me take mine down .
WINNER : Commercial

Convenience, Setup: LL vs. Commercial - The 1:1 focus of the LL really hinders the placement of the projection. Its hard to setup without getting in the way, or minimizing on keystoning. Creativity will help in this part. Commercial ones are easy to setup with their zoom lenses and lense shift options.
WINNER: Commerical

Bulb Life/Cost: LL vs. Commerical - Bleh, LL kills all competition hands down. Upto 20k hours on a single bulb that costs $50 replace. Replacement on the Sanyo is $300 for about 2000hrs.
WINNER: LL, SORE LOSER: Commerical

Quality: LL vs. Commerical - Both are equal in this category. When you match each projector to its 1:1 pixel ratio, they both look awesome. Both can be manipulated by HTPC's to scale images and deinterlace using FFDSHOW and such, how much you can do is depending on how powerful your CPU is to take on this task. At least a P4 3.0 or A64 3000+ to double up resolutions on dvd sources.
WINNER: Equal


It just depends what you are gonna do with it. If you want to use it night and day, LL all the way if you can live with the compromises and shortcomings. A must though is to remove the antiglare from the LCD. The best overall setup for this is the LL lighting kit. The Ushio S400DD has the best color so far for DIY projection. You can have fun making this or hate it. I liked it when I was building it, but I was cursing myself when I cut a finger or stabbed myself with the aluminum flashing.

Get Commerical if you are viewing a movie once in a while. You won't probably be able to use it as much, but you will be awarded with better quality and much more light.

I was only using my LL for about 1 movie a week, so I decided to go commercial. The cost of a bulb life on a commercial was better than living with the compromises of a DIY projector when the projector isn't being used much. So I got a commercial and for the occasional movie, its working perfect.

I personally can't stand the way every commercial projector I've demoed looks. The DLPs make me feel nauseated and crosseyed no matter how fast the color wheel is, and the LCD projectors boast 1200:1 but look less contrasted than my simple 15" LL. I went through a period of buying projectors to demo them against my LL and taking them back before the the return policy expired. I tried a great many projectors and never felt a pang of remorse for returning any of them.

I think opinions about the LL shortcomings are going to change very soon. The pro lenses, smaller/brighter lamps (coming), HD panels and professional reflectors are gonna mop some commercial booty.

How bout the size of the box, any plans of making the projector smaller? The LL doesn't look big at first when you set it up for the first time and view your first projection, because your in awe. But after you get accustomed to a projection system, the size grows on you, mine looked bigger to me everyday. But mine was hanging from the ceiling, so it kinda stood out . I never could figure out lense shift on it, but that would be the best thing for it as far as placement.

I have demoed a few DLP's at the store, I could never notice any rainbow effect, but I never knew what to look for. And I don't like the fact that an expensive piece of equipment might be running on bearings to spin the color wheel??? Another movable part that can break.

@andysharifi: thanks for all the interesting info. I went already for a DIY because it looked like a really fun experiment
......after a couple of days I feel already that it's going to be harder than it looked before. My first problem is the panel, the FFCs are all the way too short.
I got this 15" LCD from an auction and it was too good to miss........after stripping it I don't really feel the same as I did when I won the auction

The good point is that i'm going to use it massively, not just for movies but also for gaming either with pc and xbox360. Pc games usually have 16:9 option and the 360 original output is 16:9, so at least in this case there is no problem.






@Brainchild: thanks for the PM, it was helpful but now I feel I should try to go for the 16:9 mode, i think it should work, shouldn't it?

You're saying you are considering getting a different panel? Extending a 16p FFC is really easy...

no no,I`m not getting another panel. Well, I will if there will be another project, for this one I might try the FFC extension. Actually I`m gonna get one of them right now and then I`ll see wether using it or not, it depends on how difficult it looks. In the link you gave me a guy says that it`s quite hard and that he almost fried his panel

I just checked the store and I don`t understand one thing: "pitch" is the distance from one pin to the other, right? my 16 pins FCC doesn`t have a .5mm pitch but a .1mm, its total widht is 0.8 cm. Is there a solution? I couldn`t find a FCC 16 pin and .1mm pitch.

Thanks!!!!!

If your cable were a 1mm pitch it would be 16mm wide

Your getting me excited Brain

no no, there is a little misunderstanding

ok, first of all, what exactly "pitch" means? I checked on my dictionary and from what I understood it looks like it`s the gap from one pin to the other.

I checked my FFC and it seems that this gap is something like 0.1mm

instead, it would make sense if the pitch was the width of the pin. 0.5mmx16=8 mm, and that would be my FFC width and it would also match with the FFC you are selling.

if that is correct I`m gonna get one of them right now