I saw a story about this about a month ago on WSVN 7 news in South Florida, went online, looked up about it. I also saw some news story on 20/20 about some college students who built a van that ran off of grease.

The concept is pretty cool.....You can build this contraption, you can even use a water heater in the design, You need a machine ontop that stirs it I think. So pretty much you take used grease from McDonald's or whatever local restaurant is nearby, and by combining it with different chemicals (mostly products you'd find inside your house like LYE, for plumbing). After the process is done stirring, takes about 8 hours i think, the grease is separates into 2 different substances, 1 being biodesiel, which you can pour into the tank of your diesel car. Too bad I don't have a diesel car, I'd do it. They say you can use it just like regular diesel and that you don't have to modify anything in your car's engine. Also, the other substance that is created in the process is glycerine, and they said if you feel like, you can save money by letting the glycerin dry out in the sun, and wala!- you have your home made soap. There's another website that pretty informative on the subject, it shows 2 different college students that did this as a project for class, and and did such a good job that the college decided use their their fuel to power the college bus transit system rather than buying it from gas companies. What is everyone's opinion on this?

http://www.schnews.org.uk/diyguide/howtomakebiodiesel.htm

http://www.grownfuel.com/diy/diy.htm

I heard about the college students on the Al Franken show. They used different types of bio fuels to power everything, home, autos etc. I think they took 2nd or 3rd in the science fair.
I am going to be purchasing a hybrid within the next 2-3 years anyone have any advice or feedback on these type of vehicles?

Diesel engines were originally created to run on peanut oil back in 1900 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel). There is even speculation that Mr. Diesel died because the oil companies didn't want him taking away from their business (no proof of how he mysteriously died).

The real question is: why has nobody produced and manufactured a hybrid electric-diesal car??? The prototypes I have heard about have gotten about 80 miles per gallon on biodiesel.

There are even modifications out there (like the VorMax filter) which will allow you to run your car on straight used vegetable oil (without adding any ingredients or doing anything to it - http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,59713,00.html).

Here is an installation/cost breakdown for the VorMax filter and vegetable oil conversion:
http://www.cynxing.com/ImprobDrive/Install.html

I can't wait until the day comes when we will be completely free from the middle east oil companies, since we will be using vegetable oil instead.

well - we wouldn't HAVE to be so dependent on the middle east oil if we just dug our own - we have TONS here in the US

now, not to start a flaming war, just an observation

Were not really that dependant on the middle east for oil. Well not at least directly...

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petrole...ent/import.html

http://www.gravmag.com/oil3.html#company

Got to watch out for those canucks

Err... who's that driving?
http://www.hempcar.org/

why does the exhaust go back into the car ?? didn't cheech and chong make a prototype van ??



there is a guy in Maine that converted his truck to run off of old frilater grease... just as Mr.Diesel originally worked on... he just stops by local restaurants one a week to pick up the goods and empties the grease into a 55 gallon drum in the back of his pickup.... the exhaust, you might have guessed, smells like french fries !

The use of alternate fuels and engines fascinates me greatly. With all the technology out there why are we still relying solely on fossil fuels?! Hmmm makes you wonder...
Any body ever see the the Quasiturbine engine? This thing can run on pretty much any fuel out there... gasoline, deisel, kerosene, hydrogen, even air! this is far superior to the engines we currently use now. I'm thinkin this should be our next DIY project. I just wonder if it can be made out of MDF...

Busted

Astonishing Brain, I didn't know you did all that. I've always been a pro-canabis person (both for its product uses and as a drug) Of course who in Boulder, CO isn't. Hemp has its great uses but I've watched alot about fuel cells and hydrogen, the two seem very viable options once our government and "corporate america" gets its head out its....

Whats your view on hydrogen?

Well, hydrogen takes a lot of energy to make, and the current proposed method is by steam refining natural gas and by coal pyrolization. So in essence, it's a fossil fuel that ironically consumes much more fossil fuel to make than it would by simply burning the fossil fuel in an engine.

:/

Solar efficiencies are increasing, and a new breakthrough promises close to 80% out of solar cells which can then be used to electrolize water into H and O. Electrolysis is not a very efficient process though, but there's plenty of salt water around. I think we could do much much more by just increasing efficiencies out of the technology we currently use. The distribution of liquid hydrogen is a real nightmare.

Read about the breakthrough in solar cells:

http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archiv...solar-cell.html

New hydrogen storage methodology:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/...50907102549.htm

And a bit about how hydrogen is produced:

http://www.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuel...mochemical.html

I personally think the future is more in vegetable oil than hydrogen. The vegetable oil technology is here right now, as well as the infastructure for distribution. It is also a renewable source of energy that we will never run out of. Auto makers should really just jump on the bandwagon.

the chicken greese van/car is used with a small diesel tank probably only a cupple gallons... you need alot of grease... you start the car/van/truck for 2 min on the diesel then convert to grease/oil on a tank switch just like the multi tank trucks..

only takes diesel for 2 min to warm up the glow plugs.
good idea, smelly but cool

red

I have a Golf Diesel that I bought new when Big Oil Bush won his first term. I bet gas prices would double and my V6 would cost a lot. Check out the oil price when he began and where it is now. I saved a fortune. I went from filling up every 10 days to filling up cheaper 1/ month.

I was going to start making my own fuel and at some point im sure I will. I'm holding off for the warranty to expire. I dont want them claiming I ruined my engine and therefore there is no warranty.

Diesel-electric hybrid is proven technology. all modern trains are diesel electric.

Hey Brain thanks for that link. Some interesting links on that page

Actually, if you live in a warm climate zone such as Florida then you might be able to run your diesel engine off of straight vegetable oil. No need to break it down to biodiesel. The main difference between vegetable oil and biodiel is simply the viscosity of the fuel at lower temperatures. What the lye does to vegetable oil is break the bonds of the oil so that it flows better. The problem with this is that a good portion of the starting oil is discarded in this process.

Some people have been able to add a second tank to carry the vegetable oil. At low temps they run straight off the diesel. When the engine warms up the vegetable oil they switch to vegetable oil.

Personally, I feel that the big breakthrough in transportation technology will be in solid oxide fuel cell hybrid engines. These fuel cells can run off of oil, gasoline, ethanol, etc. and don't need pure hydrogen (the achilles heel of low temperature fuel cells). The big technical problem now with this technology is that it takes a while to heat up and the fuel cell is too brittle for transportation use. However, these issues are being worked on right now. The heatup rate will never be fast enough to start a car instantly. But that's where the hybrid steps in. The batteries are used for startup and initial power while the fuel cell is warming up. Once up, the fuel cell can recharge the batteries and provide auxiliary power to the engine if needed.

I work at a beverage company warehouse, and sometimes get to discard large amounts of sugared pop due to its outdated-ness. It goes into a bucket (at my shop), and I make it into mash, to later distill into ethanol.. I've only done one batch so far, before the weather turned too cold for the yeast to survive in my workshop. I must wait until Spring for my shop to rise to the proper temp of 80F for mashing.

I'm not necessarily making a dent in high fuel prices, I'm just doing it cuz it's pretty neat! ...and everything is free except the yeast, and fire to distill. Ever wonder how much sugar is in 5 gallons of Mt Dew..?..Enough to warrant saving it from a water treatment plant, in lieu of letting yeast eat it and poop out CO2 and Ethl!

heh.

this is another project I am working on. Just bought an 85 ford f25 to convert. Up here in the northland the WVO car is problematic though, due to the long warm up required to get the engine to operating temp, and thus allowing the switch. So it could work well for longer hauls, but hopping about town is not so good. But I bought an engine preheat system ( a military style coolant heater) that I plan to mount it in the bed, and use it to warm the engine prior to start, and/or warm the WVO tank.

some links
this is a local guy who is running a VW he converted

here's the plan i hope to emulate because he has set up a system that filters the WVO while he drives. I don't have a place to store WVO for settling or filtering. Hope to set up a coop for that at some point.

Can't get the site to work, but it sounds like a Tesla disc turbine. This is oooooold technology (1911, check the patents) that's never been used. I'd like to see it used now that material technology has matured enough to make it feasible.

There are still quite a few kinks for all the energy technologies. I think the best bet, ecologically and energetically is in biological production of hyrdogen (and contrary to my wife's opinion, I don't mean from my colon). I'm referring to hydrogen producing bacteria. Lots of ways to feed the little boogers and maybe even produce the stuff at home from your own food waste. I like the fuel cell technology too since it could mean eliminating the power grids we currently have. If home fuel cells can be combined with home hyrdogen production I would never need to leave the house (mmm, bacterial waste cakes!)...

ethonal is the way to go. brazil runs 90-95% of its cars on it and they make it all in their own country from the sugar cane. thats the way to stick it to big oil.

A mate of mine is converting his Peugot diesel hatchback to run on vege oil. A solenoid here, a thermostat there, and a second fuel tank, and voila! I think he needs start the car in diesel mode, get the oil heated so it more viscous. once its hot enough, he flips a switch and the oil kicks in. His car sputters a bit, then its off!

If anyone is interested, I can take some pics and schematics and post them.

http://www.joecell.com.au/

biodeisel is just way too messy a process ... sure if you have means to use old chip oil ... more power to you!


some people have got this thing to work. they're calling it an orgone accumulator cell.
it is initially a water electrolysis cell ... but the folks using it insist the *fuel* is not hydrogen nor oxygen.
the idea is that the water is not depleted, the energy coming from atmosheric electricity.

enjoy

Doing some internet surfing I came upon this article.

Via Daily Kos Diary, "...David Wetzel, a 79 yr old retired chemist from Decatur IL had been using recycled vegetable oil in his 1985 Volkswagen Golf diesel car for 7 years. This January, " the State of Illinois Dept. of Revenue sent 2 "special agents," Gary May and John Egan to his house. The two agents threatened the couple with felony charges and asked them to post a $2,500 bond!" According to the Herald & Review, where the full story is explained, a Republican State Senator has introduced a State bill "...which would curtail government interference regarding alternative fuels, such as vegetable oil..."I would agree that the bond is not acceptable, $2,500 bond," Watson said, adding that David Wetzel should be commended for his innovative efforts." (His car) gets 46 miles per gallon running on vegetable oil. We all should be thinking about doing without gasoline if we're trying to end foreign dependency."

" The money quote from the first H&R article is this:- "David Wetzel wonders why hybrid cars, which rely on electricity and gasoline, are not taxed for the portion of travel when they are running on electrical power." In a follow up story, H&R reported that:- "Dave Wetzel, who drove to the state Capitol from his Decatur home in his fryer waste-propelled 1986 Volkswagen, won the hearts of lawmakers as he told of his struggle with the "revenuers."" TreeHugger wishes Mr Wetzel and his legislative supporters well. Epiphanies about energy security and fairness notwithstanding, this story certainly reinforces decades worth of conspiracy stories about oil companies quashing competition by lobbying for unfair regulations. For the future, however, and along the lines of Mr Wetzel's musing about hybrids and tax fairness, we wonder if the Illinois State Dept. of Revenue would also tax the "coal to liquids" plant diesel fuel product that is being actively supported by some US Senators, should a CTL plant be built and operated in Illinois at taxpayer expense? Wouldn't such taxation be double taxing? Image credit: Mobile Magazine

Source: http://www.treehugger.com/f.../illinois_man_fi.php


Uncle Sam has to get his cut. I guess their reasoning is that by using SVO, WVO or home-brewed Bio-diesel one may have paid sales tax but would still be bypassing the road tax that is added at the pump. Still I'm reminded of this quote by Thomas Paine:

"We still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping at the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised to furnish new pretenses for revenue and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without a tribute."

Any biofuel is not likely a viable solution. If the entire world population used the various forms of it, it is unlikely that enough product could be grown to support it. In addition, although technically a renewable resource, it is also dependent upon other resources that may or may not affect the ability to produce. If there was a drought in a large producing area, then that could be a significantly impacting issue. There are other factors (what if there were a new sugar cane blight of some sort?), but the only truly renewable resource that pours on the surface of this planet every single day is energy from the sun. And if it stops producing, then none of this matters.

Of course the real issue with solar is still the problem of conversion of that energy in an efficient enough manner to allow us to really use it. It can be done, but not enough research money is spent on it, because so many are making big money off of something that they don't want to stop making money off of. Who would want to give up that oil money? Would you?


The Thomas Paine quote reminds me of the taxation of Tobacco/cigarettes by US local, state and Federal governments. Although I do not really disagree that it is a dangerous, unhealthy, and generally nasty product, it is still a legal one in most places as far as I know.
Some will say that the tax is an attempt to reduce the number of people using the products. That's a poor taxation plan. If you stop those from smoking by taxing them out of it, then you no longer have the tax revenue coming in. Using such taxes for medical services is perfectly sensible, but I wonder how much of those taxes goes to other things.

Ive come to the conclusion that Bio Desiel is too cumbersome an obstacle to save a few dollars. There has to be something else out there like the combination of electric cars and cold fusion or something. We'll never see it though. fmerrill is right.

Wow, I finally got around to replying to this topic. A little hard to do on a PDA. Anyway, my family owns an 1987 Mercedes 300TD wagon that we have converted over to run on vegetable oil for a school tech course. We have students working on the car and soon we will start doing tests on various fuels and measure efficiency. Currently we are working some of the bugs out of the conversion system and some other electrical issues. The car handles great with the vegetable oil and "Smells like someone blew up McDonalds" (Me). At our school we love to do projects like this, in the 2nd photo that is our DARPA Autonimus car. We had a little photo shoot with both cars and that is the best outside photo of the "Veggie Car" That I have with me. If anyone lives in the LA area there is a company called Lovecraft Biofuels that helped us with the conversion. I recommend that you stop by their shop in north Hollywood if you really want to see how they do this.

Fun Fact: This car of ours is running cleaner than a lot of gas cars on the road today and gets better mileage.

Here is the 2nd photo, I could not fit it in the first post.

Have him run a smoother oil like canola or soy oil. Usually oriental restaurants use these clearer and smoother types of oils. This means that the car will not need to heat the oil as much since it wont be as jelled up before it is heated. Our car is a single tank and is always on Veggie Oil (Soy or Canola). The car is a little rough on cold mornings when it starts but otherwise it is ok. This is of course that we are in southern California and it never really gets that cold. When we are doing testing where we use fresh oil that we buy from Costco. Have your friend try this stuff and see how his car runs. What is he currently running now? Usually most fast food restaurants use that shortening based crap that jammes up the systems. As part of our project we want to find a way to thin that stuff out so it does not need as much preheating.

I am intrigued by using gas producing bacteria! Highly possible power source!

From previous posts:
Saying that the future is in mcdonald's grease is inaccurate. Most likely the future is in quiet engines running on a stable liquid biodiesel made from soybeans, peanuts, recycled grease, etc. I firmly do not believe that the gas supply is running out, but seeing a mini monsoon season in MN I'd have to say dino oil is on the way out.

Most likely these high mpg biodiesel engines will be hybrids, but don't forget that batteries don't just dissappear--especially when we use chemicals like lithium, acids, alkali elements and other polymers in them. Things will be interesting, but hope could be there when scientists develop a full spectrum solar panel and cars to go that route with hybrid tech and very small batteries.

There is alot of hype about all the hybrids but i remember some doing a report on hybrids and how they are not really saving you that much money or good for the ozone.
1 You pay 5 -8 thousand more than the regular gas powered cars. It would take about 5 years to make up the difference and actually start saving money from purchasing a hybrid.

2 Hybrids batteries have been known to last only 100,000 miles.

3. The making of the battery is bad i believe he said the companies that make the battery use chemicals that get released into the ozone which is also pretty bad

From what i hear dont really have facts to back it up but im not planning buying a hybrid.
Its all about the 09 camaro!!!

Hmmmmm..... maybe the "Mr Fusion" in the Back to the Future movies didn't use actual fusion after all, but just hydrogen producing bacteria.

In Thailand a few years ago i just poured coconut oil in my Toyota diesel. Because the ambient temperature is almost always above 25 degrees there was no problem with the viscosity.
It never runned that smooth on normal diesel. After a while on coconut oil it just ran smoother and smoother.
The strange thing is that this is not picked up on a larger scale. I know only one project in the Phiipines that use it sucessfully.
The great advantage is you don't have to mess around with chemicals to prepare the oil, you just press it out of the coconut meat and ready. Once the world turns to bio diesel based on other oils, it will need other chemicals and that would just be expensive and bad for the environment again.
I think the coconut oil is the best alternative fuel for diesel cars. Even in colder climate you can mix it with 5-10% diesel to keep it fluid.
Mister Diesel had that in his mind when he designed the engine i think. It just is not the way gas and oil driven economies work. But individually you can use his design on a lot of oils without a problem. Just take care of your tubing. It has to withstand vegetable oils.

Biofuels are not all that they seem at first.

The more people run their cars off vegetable oil, the more fields and crops will be dedicated to that purpose. It takes a lot of field to grow enough oil to power a car, so we'll end up running out of field, or at least it will push up the prices of everything else that grows in fields.

The real benifit is that it's "Carbon neutral". The CO2 released by burning the fuel is the same amount that was absorbed by the plant when it was growing.

In the USA we have plenty of oil... Look at Texas... Our biggest problem is that we are to concerened about a bunch of dope smokin save the whales, save the ozone , save the birds, save the fish, save the grass, save the trees, nuts.. We love to save everything while we slowly kill ourselves.. Hell look at the Iraq crap... Now lumber, metal and everything has gone up... you ask why , because we blew the crap out of everything and now we are over there trying to rebuild what we just blew up a year ago .....AT WHOSE EXPENSE... ( Mine ) a USA taxpayer..As far as gas shortage hahahaha .. The oil companies in the USA used Hurricane Katrina as a test for a higher marketing price for fuel , they saw that people paid the high prices so they left it up higher than normal , how else did they make such a large profit , some odd billions of dollars... I think we need to make a car that will run off of water , but dont be suprised if the price of water all of a sudden goes to 3.00 a gallon (VENT VENT VENT CUSS CUSS CUSS )

Rain water will always be free..... ;-p

The problem is that the world is getting hotter.

That's your expense, too. Maybe you plan to be dead by then. Congratulations.

As a school project, a group of us are building a Bio-Diesel reactor to make Bio-Diesel from vegetable oil. I will try to get some photos uploaded later.