UPDATE:... 31 December 2007

Please be advised since this modification of LCD enhancement has gained popularity from it's first discovery by Mark and Elken2004 it is a process that should be highly undertaken at your own risk. There have been growing occasions, including myself, of actual 'graining' occurring to the polarizer film upon removing the protective Antiglare (AG) layer and/or the TAC layer on either side of the panel that may lead to total replacement thereof, a process not easily replicated and normally done originally by LCD manufactures. Extreme care should always be undertaken to hopefully prevent 'graining' after removing the protective AG or TAC by maintaining efficient cooling to the LCD at all times while the projector is in use. Cleaning the polarization film with anything but a slightly damp cloth or pressurized air and while the LCD panel is on off and cool.

AS AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT 'GRAINING' IS - imagine a baloney and cheese sandwich . Remove the first slice of bread and it's innards (baloney or cheese) will have the potential to fall off after loosing it's mustard or mayonnaise hold or in this case 'pop' up appearing like 'graining' of the polar layer. The only strength left that the polar layer has is it's adhered hold to the last TAC under it (the other slice of bread ) that's also adhered to the LCD panel itself. So, be warned that the AG and/or TAC is a supportive layer that strengthens the polar's overall bond and concise structure.

Should you decide undertaking this mod, try not to over soak while using the 'Water Rag Method'. There is a possibility of over-saturating all layers of adhesives in between each layer down to the glass LCD substrate, so be meticulous.

sim

PLEASE DO NOT USE THIS AS A DISCUSSION BOARD.

This thread is a branch off from the original thread "LL projector lumens theory" in furtherance to research various methods in the removal of the antiglare layer on LCD panels. Please do not use this thread as a discussion board. Proceed to the original thread on 'LL projector lumens theory' for full discussion and/or assistance. Please provide only information pertaining to your LCD panel and the method used in order to remove the anitglare either 'polishing, ripping & replacing, stripper and/or water soaking' (more methods will be mentioned as they come) in the following manner:

1) LCD brand name & Size
2) Specifications (brief)
3) Method of antiglare removal to include sanding if done &/or type of polisher
4) Type of polarized film used, name, model, part number (if total replacment was done)
5) Date of removal, replacement
6) Date of any ill findings after removal, replacement (while Editing)

Pictures are worth a thousand words when it comes to researching, so please provide but keep your sizes to a minimum and few and specifically on the process of removal with some showing your projection results (if you want to show it off )

MORE IMPORTANTLY (#6), should you discover any ill effects to the polarized film after the method performed and while use of your projector then please 'EDIT' your post/s with dates of when and what was discovered. This information will or may be helpful in development of better alternatives in antiglare removal.

We, who are experimenting with this new found discovery appreciate your assistance and cooperation. Thank you.

SIMUL8R

Edit by SupraGuy:
For the time being, there is an "OT Posts from..." thread. Please use that as a thread to discuss any of the posts in this thread, ask for clarification, further details, or anything that is not directly on topic with this thread. Most of the time I'll move the posts, but I may instead choose to just delete them. Posting them in the appropriate place will ensure that they remain where they will be seen.

On the flipside, please see that thread for discussion about what's happening here!.

Thank you for your cooperation.

I stripped the ag on my 8" hami tonight just got done runing the projector 2 1/2 hours
what can I say the whites are brighter contrast is much better and the colors?...Im lovin it.I did the paint stripper method.I will try to take some screen shots tomorrow.


I totaly covered the panel with stripper one shot I also cut my squeegee the exact width of the panel waited 30 minutes and did one pass with the sqeegee.
I got 95 percent of the ag off this way. The rest was touch up on the corners.

CORNEA CT1503T TFT-LCD monitor with TV tuner
Contrast Ratio (typical) 500:1
Size 15" (38.1 cm)
Resolution 1024× 768 / 60 Hz
Surface Treatment Anti-glare, Hard-Coating 3H
Removed antiglare on 10/17/05.

Method Stripper - Klean Strip Stripper (15 min. can)

1. Carefully masked ffc's and circuit boards twice up to the panel itself but leaving the anitglare exposed. Also, making sure stripper does not 'run over' and onto the polar on the otherside of the panel, if it did quickly wipe off with denatured alcohol.

2. Prior sanding (lightly) 220 grit. Rounded sandpaper over index finger and not folded or creased (edges of crease will dig deeper into antiglare and marr the polar)

3. Took a little over 2 hours with sanding and cleaning, repeated application of stripper several times making sure not to have stripper touch anything else but antiglare.

4. After 15 to 20 minutes applied plastic scraper (squeegee would work fine as shown above) then reapplied stripper to 'stragglers' left behind. Not much effort applying scraper just finger pressure.

5. Cleaned up all stripper residue with denatured alcohol using soft paper towels and sponge.

SIMUL8R strip

SIMUL8R strip

SIMUL8R strip

Results: Contrast is deeper and brighter. I'm able to view images with 2 60watt lamps on, whites are whiter (personal observation, when switching from a dark to white background I felt eye strain from the sudden switch). Viewing pleasure has increased dramatically, brilliance is like plasma. Projector has 50 odd hours usage since antiglare removal and no apparent side affects noted as yet.
sim

LCD: 15" Philips S5 Series
*Has ffc issues
Method: Paint Stripper
Product: -500grit Wet'n dry sandpaper
-Paint Stripper, active ingredient Methylene Chloride 870 gm / L
-Teflon spatchlr
-papertowel
-Methylated Spirits
-Clear vinl strips
-Household sticky tape
Date: 19-10-05
Process time: 4 hours approx
Process detail:
-Sand lightly and evenly over total surface.
-Prepared 4 vinl strips to crop edges and provide overspray protection
-Taped down with sticky tape.
-Apply stripper up to edges. Thick.
-Wait 30-45 minutes then wipe of excess with spatchler.
-Reapply stripper to stubbrn areas.
-Repeat
-Remove stickytape and vinl.
-Work with smaller quantities of stripper on edges working your way outwards,
leaving a nice thin border of a/g.
-Repeat applications on anything between you and a mirror finish.
-Cleanup using the Meth. I soaked a sponge. Paper towel is usefull here also.
-Dusted up with compressed air.
-Finito.

Comments: Patience is a virtue with this. Approached with more confidence, the
second time I performed this process it was a peice of cake.
Deterioration: None at the time of writing (@ approx 30 hours usage)
Results: Excellent contrast/colour/sharpness/brightness improvements experienced.

Images: Brightness imprvmnt now allows 70w lighting to be turned on. Other various captures. Clarity has improvd so much!.....soft skin tones look fantastic. im in WOW land

Antiglare Removal

Method: Water Soak
Solvent: Distilled H2O
Dampener: Paper towel
Time: 12 hours

Monitor: 15" CMV 529A
Lenses: Standard Lumenlab triplet and fresnels
Screen: DaLite pulldown with 1.1 gain

Procedure
Per Mark's instructions I laid the panel out, cut a paper towel so that it covered the surface of the panel (being careful not to let the paper towel & water extend beyond the edge of the antiglare sheet), dampened the paper towel with distilled water, drizzled more water on 2-3 times and waited, impatiently, for 12 hours. Pulled up a corner with an Exacto knife and the antiglare sheet come up in 3 big pieces, offering only minor resistance. The peel took maybe 5 minutes. Only scary part was not knowing at first if I was getting just the antiglare or the polar bear too.

Did I mention that this is the panel from my PJ...?

I'll take some pics tomorrow but after a very quick 15 minute projection session, my intial impressions are:

The Good
- Noticeably brighter overall, with whiter whites.

- While still not really watchable with all the lights on in the basement, the image is bright enough to be seen, which was not true before.
The not so Good
- I'm now able to see the fresnel lines in the image, which I did not see before. I'm assuming that the antiglare was blurring the image sufficiently to hide them previously. Any thoughts on correcting this, perhaps my fresnels need to be moved a bit?

EDIT: 10/29/05 Update - Moved the rear fresnel back(further away from the LCD) by ~1/4" and the visible fresnel rings disappeared. First attempt was to move the rear fresnel ~1/8" which did NOT make the rings disappear.

Summary
Definitely worth doing, the procedure was really quite straight forward and I never felt like the panel was in danger. Again, the only scary part was the first corner of the antiglare, after that is was a piece of cake.

Thanks to Simul8r, Elken, Mark and everyone else on the forum for their experimentation and their willingness to share!

Greg

Method: Antiglare Buffing
Panel: IBM thinkpad laptop monitor
Polish: PEEK polish

procedure: Masked off electronics, applied PEEK by hand with a soft tissue. Worked a small area for approx 30 seconds. Repeated 3x.

The good: Minimal risk/effort. The panel is now see-through in the treated area. The appearance is glossy when viewing a reflection. The transmitted efficiency is approximately the same as encapsulation with cellophane tape.

The bad: the antiglare layer is still there, just highly flattened. Not as good as full removal, but SUPER close.

While I believe this method to be completely safe, I noticed a petroleum-type odor on the panel after the polish was wiped away. If I were doing this on a projection panel, I would use Naptha or mineral spirits to wipe down the surface and remove any residual polish after the application. I wiped the treated surface with acetone (I know, not good! - but only for a short time) to make sure that the polish wasn't just leaving a film on the surface. The area remained glossy - this is a true abrasive polish.

In the US, PEEK is tough to find (Canadian company). There is a fellow on ebay who is a US rep - track him down to purchase some:

http://cgi.ebay.com/PEEK-POLISH-Sterling-S...1QQcmdZViewItem

EDIT: I applied a bit of PEEK to a piece of stripped antiglare so you could see the effect. Only the corner was treated:

Click to view attachment

Antiglare Removal

Method: Water Soak
Solvent: Tap H2O
Dampener: Paper towel
Time: 3 hours

Monitor: 8.9" Toshiba Portable DVD Player
Lenses: Standard Lumenlab triplet and fresnels

(Cheating off off gregeast's post)

Procedure
Per Mark's instructions I laid the panel out, cut a paper towel so that it covered most of the panel, not quite to the edges, dampened the paper towel with tap water, drizzled more water on 2-3 times and waited for 3 hours. Pulled up a corner with my fingernail and the antiglare sheet came up in one big piece, ZERO resistance. The peel took maybe 30 seconds.

Pics to come...

The Good
- Noticeably brighter overall, with whiter whites.
- More clearly defined pixel edges, less of a "blur" on pixel borders

No complaints, no visible degredation to the polarizer or panel as of now.

Summary
My experience was probably freakishly easy and unusual. It nicely illustrates the range of variation when dealing with different panel manufacturers and possibly within actual model numbers. I cannot recommend this to anyone in good conscience, but specifically for this panel the technique is a godsent.

Monitor: NEC 1550 (it's at least 5 years old)

Anti-Glare Removal Method: Klean Strip KS-3 Premium Stripper

Date Started: October 24, 2005
Date completed: October 25, 2005

I think age and heat from the PJ had alot to do with getting the Anti-glare off
Panel was sanded lightly with 220 course sandpaper .

1. Applied striper to small area for test

2. Used masking tape to cover panels electronics and placed the tape 1/8 on LCD so stripper would not get to the edge.

3. Using plastic scrapper removed stripper from test area and polar could be seen

4.Sanded half of the monitor

5. Applied stripper to sanded side and after 30min using plastic scrapper removed stripper. Some of the Anti-Glare came up but it seems like the stripper didn't stay on long enough so a second coat was applied.After another 30min the second coat was removed and there was still alot of Anti-Glare left behind so a 3rd coat was applied this time I covered the entire LCD and left it on for 3hrs.

6. Removed stripper after 3 hours with the plastic srapper first side that was sanded working with the scrapper was pretty smooth almost completely strip still had some Anti-Glare stragglers left the seocnd side useing the scrapper was pretty hard because it was not sanded only a small amount came up and did not want to damage the LCD it's now 4:30am and I had to get ready for work so I applied stripper to entire LCD.
Returned home at 1:30 pm useing a paper towel started removing stripper 1st side completely strip and the second side I had to use the scrapper but is was not hard and all the Anti-Glare came up entire LCD was strip.
7. Using Goof Off remaing glue came up and panel was cleaned.

1) LG 17"
2) 550:1, 1280x1024, 12ms
3) Australian sellys paint stripper after light sand with 440grit.
4) Polarised film left untouched
5) Date of removal 29/10/05
6) Ill post some pics of the results and a few that I took while doing it. I found it relitivly easy apart from the stress involved. Did the usual i.e tapes edges, light sand and poured stripper on thickly. Left for about 30mins and tested the status by scraping (with a plastic scraper) a section. Found it was shiny underneath so I went ahead and scraped the rest off. Only had a few trouble spots that were stubborn where I had to re-apply the stripper in dobs for 5 mins each. Removed the glue that was left with soapy water and isopropyl alcohol. Still have a few specs (probably glue) left over which Im going to have to clean.

Conclusion: I found the end result satisfying, the whites where definetly brighter and colours deeper. I would however caution anyone from doing it as while the results were worth the risk for me I can see how some people will be dissapointed.

Panel: Samsung 153T
350:1, 1024x768, 25ms
Method: Water soak rag method.
Date of removal: 10/31/05


My first attmept was with the paint stripper method. It was a failure. I sanded with 330 grit and tried multiple times using Klean strip stripper. Bottom line - I left it on overnight! and the anit-glare didn't budge.

The next day i used 3 or 4 paper towls which fit nicely over the front of the LCD and gave the towels a pretty good soaking with filtered water from a BRITA(i know distilled was recommended). I left for work and came back about 9 hours later. I peeled up a piece and most of the a/g came up with relative ease. There were some trouble spots so i gave them another soak (about an hour) and cleaned up the excess glue with a little rubbing alcohol.

I can definitely tell there is a big difference but I haven't been able to readjust my projector and focus it the way I like. When I do I will report on my findings.

+1 for the Rag method!

Here is my anti glare removeal post


My steps in removing antiglare coating.

1) Place LCD glare side up on dry dish towel on counter. (this towel is to catch any water from running all over the counter.)

2) Wet second dish towel and loosely wring out water. I have a rainsoft system so my water is free of impurities. Definately do not use hard water as you will get water spots when it dries and then you need to rub those out.

3) Place towel over lcd panel and folded sides in to overlap lcd by 1/2 inch.

4) Pour a glass of water over top towel to thoroughly saturate.

5) Reapply water every hour or 2 for up to 4 hours.

6) At 4 or 5 hour mark I lifted the antiglare sheeting from a corner and began to peel it back upon itself parallel to the lcd as to not stress the glass.

Pretend you are removing a sticker from a shrink wrapped item and you do not want to tear the shrink wrap. It is at times a tough pull as the AG is firmly stuck to the LCD but it does come off. Work the AG off at angles so as to not work a large surface area at once.

It was actually very easy to remove and others may make it sound hard but just don't crack your lcd or stress the glass too much. It's easy to remove once soaked thoroughly (at least mine was). I did it my first try! So you can probably too.



LCD before removal:


Antiglare sheet removed:


Lcd w/o antiglare

Here is a chopped up photo guide to pulling up the anti-glare with Water Ragging™. There are 4 keys missing from these posts:

1. Instead of using a razor, try sticky tape at an edge. You should be able to peel the anti-glare up with the sticky tape.

2. Try reenforcing the edges of the anti-glare with sticky tape after soaking. This should keep it from tearing if it snags at the edge. Tearing is not a big deal, but it means you have to get a corner started again.

3. I recommend you use distilled water. All my tests were done with tap water, but better to be safe.

4. Even if you don't think that any water has gotten anywhere but the surface of the anti-glare, let the panel dry before applying any power.

note do not let water pool anywhere on the exposed surface of the PVA, always have a rag holding it back. Better yet, try to never let even ragged water hit the surface of the PVA. While this is what we crash tested, it is still not recommended. I would suggest that before you do the peel up that you wipe off any excess water on the surface of the TAC. That way if it tears (hopefully you have reinforced it with tape too), then water will not pool at the tear line between the TAC and the PVA. PVA is the polarization layer that is exposed once the anti-glare TAC is removed.

Here we go:

Part 1: http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s...indpost&p=98378

Part 2: http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s...indpost&p=98441

Part 3: http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s...indpost&p=98482

Part 4: http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s...indpost&p=98484

Realize that all of our techniques are experimental. Things have and can go wrong.

Mark.

Panel : Sony PS1 5"
Method : Rag Soak
Date: Nov 3,05

1. Put wet paper towels on panel
2. Waited 2 hours
3. Used razor blade and peeled up a corner of the antiglare
4. Let panel air dry.

It worked perfectly, like a dream. I noticed better brightness and colors. Not as much as the other 5.5" panel I did, but with the Sony PS1 screen the antiglare faces AWAY from the light and the 5.5" antiglare was facing TOWARDS the light.

Maybe this will keep me happy until my 15.4" Controller and Pro lenses arrive.

Pease note that sweston's LCD panel = Dell 1504FP 15"

Furthermore, according to his PLOG, the Dell 1504FP he stripped actually had a samsung panel in it... just somthing else to ponder... wasn't Mikau the one that tried the samsung panel with water, but had problems ?

1) Norcent LM153 15" (Now there's one you see every day, eh?). Internal label says Acer

2) Specifications: Good question, it was a cheapo circuit city clearance a couple of years ago

3) Standard stripper job: Sand with 220 grit sandpaper, cover with Jasco paste stripper (methylene chloride), soak for ~30 minutes, scrape with plastic scraper. Lather, rinse, repeat until most gone, then lots of painstaking cleanup with solvent alcohol and toilet paper.

If I was more patient, I would have tried the rag soak first. It probably would have been easier. It was a PITA to get all of the last little bits of AG off. And listen to the other folks that say DON'T PRESS HARD with the scraper OR RUB HARD with whatever you are using to do the final alcohol cleanup. I left some scratches that fortunately are not visible in the projected image. In fact my image looks cleaner than when I started.
I did not use tape on the edges and just relied on the paste stripper staying where I put it. This worked well except for a couple areas where the stripper contacted the edge of the polar bear and started to work on the adhesive holding the polar to the panel. It didn't get very far and is nowhere near the image portion of the panel.

The Good: AWESOME brightness and appearance. Happy, happy, joy, joy.

The Bad: Nada.

AG Removal Method: STRIPPING
LCD: Samsung 510M-S
Stripper: Klean Strip KS-3

Summary:
Roughly 5 applications of stripper over 6 hour period, and quite a bit of cleanup with denatured alcohol. VERY pleased with results as everyone else has indicated - Significant increase in brightness and contrast!

Process:
- removed panel from PJ and frame
- setup panel on level surface
- did not mask anything, but absolutely recommend doing so
- did not prep sand at all
- brushed thick layer of stripper and waited nearly 1 hour, ensuring no contact to FFCs or runoff
- scraped with plastic scraper without downward pressure
- repeated process until all trouble spots, particularly edges, were removed
- cleaned with denatured alcohol
- returned to frame and PJ and, of course, nervously tested.

Associated Damage (sorry - no photos):
- very minor scratches to polar from scraper or paper towel - no impact to image
- 2 pea-sized spots on polar edge where polar seemed to be seperating from panel - no impact to image (because it's on the edge). Most likely due to stripper reaching polar edge.

Thanks LL Pioneers!

Click to view attachment

Panel:
Westinghouse 15" LCD. Same as CMV models.

Stripper: KleanStrip KS-3 Premium
Summary:
I did about 5 applications over a 3 hour period, then used alot of denatured alcohol to clean up the mess. It was all in all a messy job. But worked. I only took off enough AG for a widescreen, so there is still some AG on the very top and very bottom. I only fully masked off the sides of the screen before stripping
Process:
- masked the sides only
- sanded the screen very lightly with coarse 220
- brushed thick layer of stripper and waited nearly 30min.
- scraped with plastic scraper without downward pressure
- repeated process until all trouble spots, particularly edges, were removed
- cleaned with denatured alcohol

Results:
I have a picture in the screen forum, but the biggest improvement was contrast. The color saturation is immensely improved. The brightness does improve on top of an already crazy High Power screen. I would guess i'm in the territory of around 400-500 lumens with the mod and the high power screen. Certainly showes its true colors on movies and games, and browsing the internet is a whole new experience when everything is so much more colorful.

No one will every have a finished projector if they don't strip their screens, its holding you back THAT MUCH!!!

panel: CMV 720d 17"

specs: 500:1 1280X1024 8ms 16.7M Colours

Method:Rag soak

process:

1)I sat the LCD at an angle so any excess water would drain away from the FFC's and electronics
2)layed 2 paper towels, to completely cover the ag
3)Gently poured water on to the paper towels untill completely soaked
4)Removed all the air bubbles
5)I waited about an hour then lifted the ag up at one corner with a scalpel (not recommended) and made sure it was the ag and not the Polarizer. (The ag Should look clear the polarizer looks black when you look through it) The Ag was still a bit stciky so I let it soak for 2 more hours. After which it came up easily.
6)I let the LCD dry out for a day before I put it back in its frame However I noticed the LCD was still tacky so I wet a lens cloth and wiped the lcd down a couple of times to remove any left over adhesive untill the water on the lcd surface started to form little droplets.

Damage:
None.

Positive results:
-The picture is much brighter
-The colour has a lot more punch its allmost as good as a plasma. I no longer have to play with the saturation. I think this result alone makes this mod worthwhile.
-Better contrast. Black is now alot blacker. Before I had a lot of light leakage in the middle of my screen this is now gone.
-I Can see a clear image of my light arc on the triplet. Which will be useful for testing how well a reflector works.

Negative results:
-The fresnel lines are more noticable. I had to move the fresnel Quite A bit further away from the LCD.

panel: ACER AL1714

specs: 350:1 1280X1024 8ms 16.7M Colours

Method:Rag soak

process:

1) layed on a pizza box (crucial)
2) put wet paper towels on
3) drank some beers (almost as crucial as step 1)
4) waited for approx 6-7 hours then peeled the anti glare off in 3 sections
5) cleaned up the weird residue with a bit of water
6) let dry

Damage:
None. I did leave a small 1/2inch border along the top of the screen just so i can look back when complete at the gain of stripping the anti glare. I used a 16:9 screen and all 16:9 sources so i will never see it outside of that test.

Positive results:
-I can see through the panel now


Negative results:
-dont know yet, havnt finished building the projecter and never viewed it with the antiglare

panel: CMV-520D

specs: 500:1 1024X768 16ms 16.7M Colours

Method:complete polarizer removal

process:

1) Removed the polarizer very slowly, using a plastic knife and putty knife at times to not crack the glass


Damage:
None. Later i ended up dropping something on an FFC and dented the ribbon cable just enough to net myself a nice white column

Positive results:
-looked better even with the cheap surplus shed polarizer i pieced together
-the 3dlens polarizer i got was of much higher quality and had a higher transmission based on my overhead projecter testing, never got to try it though, bought the 17 inch above


Negative results:
-white line, not due to the strip but another accident

LCD: Benq 567v2

Removal method: Wet paper towel on top of AG polarbear for a couple hours to make it more pliable. Peeled off the entire polarbear (polarizer and AG) in a single sheet. It came off relatively easily. Small amount of adhesive left at the bottom of the panel, but I loosened that up with some nail polish remover and elbow grease. Wipe clean with nail polish remover and the panel was spot-free. Whole process took maybe 30 minutes.

Ordered non-adhesive polarizer from 3Dlens.com and taped it on the LCD.


Positives: Wow.Just wow. I've had my PJ for a year now and have been very satisfied - it is my main display in my home. This mod made it a totally new experience. Colors are amazing. Noticeably brighter and better contrast. Focus is even improved across the entire screen. Have I said "wow" yet?

Negatives: the replacement polarizer sheet was expensive (80 dollars with shipping), but it was totally worth it. Also a bit of positive feedback for 3dlens.com: I ordered the polarizer on Monday and it shipped all the way from Taiwan to my home in Georgia by Thursday morning.

This should not be considered an "Extreme Mod." This should be required for every PJ builder.

Panel: BENQ FP591 15" LCD

Method:Rag™ soak

process:

Put three layers of wet paper towel on lcd, and left for five hours. Used a razor blade to pull up corner, and continued to pull up the a/g. It came off in 10 pieces, because the edges were still stuck to the lcd, and had to be separated with a razorblade. Cleaned up lcd with additional water and rubbing alcohol.

Result:

Even in a projector with poorly aligned optics, the image is brighter and sharper than before. The PJ in now being rebuilt for more exact adjustment of lenses.

This can be an extremely easy modification if you take your time, or a distaster if you rush it. Patience is definately a virtue in this one.

Rhino

This is a log of my friends PJ i talked him into doing, as I haven't built mine yet.
PJ: Standard Optics(split fresnels), LL light kit, polished bowl reflector, Nextvision N6
Panel: CMV CT-529A

Method:Rag™ soak

process:
Places several layers of paper towels on lcd, cut to fit. Applied a healthy amount of tap water to towels, and soaked for 3 1/2 hours, watering every hour, then attempted to pull up AG with fingernail. AG lifted off corner, and was pulled of as a whole, leaving behind quite a bit of residue. The remaining residue was cleaned primarily with water, then 70% iso alcohol.

Result:
The LCD is now like a "tinted piece of glass". No defusion of light, just a dark tint. The Projector is casting on a silver painted sheet, 120" diag image. Brightness was increased GREATLY, colors are more vivid. Recommended to ANYONE(at least with a CMV CT-529a).
Pro's- +Much better brightness
+Better colors
+Slightly better focus
Con's -Rear fresnel rings showing on screen, VERY slight. Will move rear fresnel back 1/8" to compensate.
Summation- Should be a REQUIRED mod. Stipping the LCD is more "extreme" than this was. The only thing extreme was the waiting and nail biting. This should be in the guide(with a warning of course).
Brandon
P.S.- He ordered a 8x6 Da-Light High Power. Should arrive on 11/18/05. That will be sweeeet sweeeet nectar.

SAMSUNG 150MP LCD-TV
15”, 1024x768, 300:1, 25ms, 70 Hz

Method: STRIPPER (Klean Strip KS-3 Premium)
Removed antiglare on 11/12/05


1. Masked panel (in frame) with masking tape. I’d strongly recommend removing it from the frame (see “the bad” below)

2. Sanded with 220 grit sandpaper. Very light sand, took about ten minutes.

3. Applied stripper. If I had to do it again, I’d be even more liberal with the goo. It’s VERY easy to work with. And yes, corners can be a pain.

4. Waited 30 minutes. Scraped with NO downward pressure. I was amazed how easily it came off!

5. I used three more coats of stripper, waiting 15 minutes each. Total time to strip / clean approx. 2 ½ hours

6. Cleaned up all stripper residue with isopropyl alocohol and cotton squares. Did a ‘final polish’ with lens paper and lens solution.

7. Waited about an hour to make sure it was dry, replaced the sled, crossed fingers and fired up.

THE GOOD

It’s still daytime, so I can’t really tell what I’ve got. But even daytime viewing seems a little brighter, and the colors REALLY pop. I’ll post nighttime pics when it's dark.

THE BAD

None, really. This stuff was really easy to work with. As long as you’re as careful as you were during the initial LCD strip, it’s a piece of cake. I think the sanding was really important. My only downside is that I’ve got visible antiglare lines… only because I masked the LCD while it was still in its frame. I’ll clean that up in the future.

11/20/05 EDIT: I cleaned up my AG side and removed the front TAC as well. Sharpness, color and contrast are awesome!!!

Here's a comparison... same camera settings.

- Definately brighter
- Definately better contrast
- Most of all, definately better color and sharpness

I'll need to go back and change my ffdshow settings. It's not 'too sharp' in real life; I think the photo exaggerates it. But I'm pretty pleased. Crazy props to Simul8r and crew!

Monitor: Westinghouse 15"
Specs: 450:1 Contrast ratio, 16ms Response time
Method used: Rag Soak
Date: November 14th

Left paper towel soaking on panel for about 2 1/2 hours. Edge came up easily with fingernail. Took off half of the A/G layer on first pull. Remaining came off in about 3 pieces. Cleaned up remaining glue with water and alcohol.

Results:

Display image is noticibly brighter and colors are more crisp. I can now watch my projector with a 60 watt light on in the room without feeling the screen is too washed out.

This was very easy for this monitor. I would also have to agree with earlier posts. If you have not done this mod you are not seeing how good your projector can look.

Benq 567 v2
Rag technique

I left the wet paper towels on the lcd for about 8-9 hours. The anti-glare came up really easily with no damage whatsoever to the polarizer.

EVERYONE SHOULD DO THIS.

Improved brightness by about 20%, contrast and sharpness.

Pics soon.

CMV 529-A
Rag Technique
Date Nov 14th

I removed the panel from my projector that I have been running for almost a year. I was worried that the film would be "baked" onto the screen and not come off.

1. First off, it's very easy to know which side has the AG on it...it's the one that is kinda blurry/soft (that was another worry of mine, which side was the AG on)
2. I laid a towl down on my kitchen table and then laid the panel with the AG facing up.
3. I laid some paper towels on the panel and used a sponge to wet them making sure that the towels didn't overlap onto the electronics.
4. I waited about 4 hours (went to dinner)
5. Using my fingernail, I was easily able to pull up an edge of the AG and pull the entire thing off in one piece.

Literally, pulling up the AG took less than a minute, and I had no fears during the process of damaging the panel.

THIS IS SOMETHING EVERYONE WITH THE CMV-529 SHOULD DO!!!

Contrast / Brightness are extremly improved. I am able to very slighly see my fresnels, but moving them a short distance away from the panel should solve this.

PANEL: BenQ 567v2
METHOD: Rag Method / distilled water
TIME: 4 Hours
DATE: 11/14/05

Ragged per Mark's instructions. Used "ready-wipes" (easy to cut straight) to rag the panel. Made sure to PRE-WASH the ready-wipes because, although dry, they seem to be impregnated with some type of detergent. Layed over the panel, waited 4 hours (no reload of water). Pried edge up with a razor (the very corner of this panel is not in the active matrix area so I wasn't afraid of marring the PVA. Sheet came off in one big pass except for the very corners. Re-pried and lifted with corners with the razor.

OUTCOME

BRIGHTNESS: this is going to be a contraversial statement, but to my eyes, there is almost NO change in absolute brightness. My pj was plenty bright before, it is still plenty bright.

CONTRAST: The contrast was most certainly improved. The whites are now whiter (true white, not just a light grey), and the blacks seem to also be blacker!

SHARPNESS: No contest. The sharpness is VASTLY improved by this mod. Pixels were visible before, but they are much more sharply defined now. The borders between pixels are much clearer and I can actually distinguish 1 pixel spaced horizontal and vertical line patterns from a distance.

COLOR: OH MY FREAKIN' GAWD - HERE'S WHERE THIS MOD ROCKS. The color saturation is improved 300%. The colors are now much truer - yellow is REAL yellow, not a greyish-greenish-yellow. Red is bright and vibrant, not dark and muted. Green looks vibrant and alive And blue becomes almost iridescent. It is as if a light grey film of haze was lifted off the image. I am no longer needing to crank color saturation or use gimmicks like "cinema enhancement" to get the colors to where they should be. The result of this improvement in color is a vast *percieved brightness enhancement* even if the actual brightness boost minimal.

I noticed some time ago that color saturation might be even more important than actual brightness. When I used to watch my pj during the daytime (rare) I used to crank the color saturation to 200% to make the image watchable. This mod nullifies the need for that.

In dark scenes, it was always a peeve of mine that if I cranked the gamma high enough to view the shadow detail, the colors would wash out and the image would loose impact. I would have to raise the contrast and color saturation to compensate, thus "burning out" fine detail. The pj is a lot more tolerant to raising gamma without washing out, now.

SUMMARY: If you haven't done this mod yet, you are missing out on what your pj could be.

THE BAD: okay, along with the good, comes some bad. My fresnel lines are MUCHO visible and very distracting. Elken sent me a pm about how moving the field fresnel closer may compensate but so far, I am without luck in that endeavor. Can someone who has a greater optics knowlege than me please advise me on how to shift the "LCD virtual image" away from the collimating fresnel without needing to re-design my sled?? In my design, the collimating fresnel LCD separation are fixed to spec.

PANEL: Benq 567v2
Method: Rag soak/tap water
Time:2hours
Date:13/11

Normally I am a patient guy,but...
I bought a non working 17" lcd from e-bay.It turns out it is in fairly bad condition,so I steamed in...
Placed dry towell under lcd,placed another towell ontop of lcd.Soaked towell with tap water.Waithed 2 hours,could only get a small corner up,before the ag tore.Hmm,I thought and promptly got my wifes hairdryer out,heated up the surface,and pulled.I got the ag,the polarizer and everything else up,in one go!!


Not to be beaten,I promptly stripped my pj,placed the lcd between the 2 towells,and waited another 2 hours.I then made sure,using a craft knife,that I only pulled the ag,and pulled it cleanly off in one piece,no probs.I then got cheeky and went right on and removed the TAC from the rear of the lcd too,which came off even easier than the ag.Cleaned the slight milky residue with more tap water,dried overnightand put the whole lot back together.Like I said I am normally a fairly patient guy,I guess I was a bit stressed out at the weekend!!

I will reserve judgment on results for now,as all I have done is a test firing,just to make sure it all worked.It did! I will edit post when conclusions have been made,suffice it to say that I immediateley noticed the sharpness of the image was improved significantly.
No fresnel lines though.

PANEL: Viewsonic VA550
LCD Panel: Acer L150X2M
Method: Rag soak/tap water
Time:3 hoursper side
Date: November 16


Used the "Rag Soak" method. Left it on for 3 hours. Ani-glare peeled right up.
Flipped the panel over and left the wet rags on for 3 hours. The rear Tac peeled right off.
It then took me about 30 minutes per side to get the adhesive off using a wet rag.
De-Natured Alcohol and Acetone wouldn't take the adhesive off.

No Pros or Cons because this was just a test panel and it has an FFC issue anyway.

(Merged by SupraGuy)
Well on the LCD Board it says: Acer L150X2M
Is that it?

Removal Method: Stripper
LCD: Samsung 510m-s
Stripper: Klean Strip KS-3

Summary -
Stripped AG with about 5 applications over 7 hour period. The brightness was not visibly improved but the sharpness, contrast, and color saturation are at least 2x better.

Process -
Lightly sanded AG.
Applied thick layer of Klean Strip.
Waited an hour to an hour and fifteen minutes.
Scraped off what I could with plastic scraper.
Wiped down and started process again until all the AG was gone.

Damage -
My panel will have to be replaced. There are two perfectly 45 degree diagonal lines where it appears that the polarizer was cut on my lcd. The lines are too perfectly spaced and angled to have been scratches from my sanding. If I had to guess I would say that the polarizer was put on in three sheets diagonally across the surface of my lcd and when I applied the stripper, it soaked into the seams where the sheets of polarizer came together.

[EDIT]

I had some red column problems when putting my panel back in this last time. Jiggling the FFC fixed it, but I don't think it will survive another pull to do a complete polarizer replacement. I did not mean to imply above that my panel had to be replaced because of damage to the substrate or FFC's caused by stripping.

[EDIT]


I saw someone else successfully stripped their 510m-s so I thought I was good to go.

Not the case, be carefull with this monitor,
Jerm...

Panel: Philips TV, 17", WXGA, 17PF9946/37B

Specs: 400:1, 1280X768, 16ms, No FCC's, easy to strip.

Inputs: Tuner, S-Video, component, VGA, HDMI

Method: Rag soak


Process:

1) Laid the panel on a folded bath towel.
2) Cut a t-shirt to fit the panel (was out of paper towels).
3) Dampened rag.
4) Waited for approx. 12 hours.
5) Used HD packaging tape on a dried off corner to try to lift the AG- no luck.
6) Went down two hours later to clean up the mess, tried the tape trick again- no luck.
Noticed the AG covered a 1/8" silver border around the edges of the panel (not in viewing area),
Decided to use a xacto knife to lightly lift the corner,
Pushed the knife in 1/8", saw that all the layers were coming up, FLINCHED ,
Pushed them back down and noticed the AG had separated.
7) Lightly pulled on the AG (pulled up about as hard as the tape) and came off in one piece with no residue at all.
8) Let dry 24 hours

Damage:
None. Area where the layers separated is not visible.

Positive results:
WOW !!

This is a new panel that I was stripping for my old Pro Lens Projector setup.
Figured it was good time to try, before it was glued into the frame.
If the rag method didn't work, I don't think I would have gone any further.

I am comparing the results to my old 17" Rosewill panel 400:1 16ms 1280x1024 with AG.

The colors and detail are much improved.
All the picture controls are set to the neutral position (and actually behave like they are suppost to).
With the rosewill, the whites and light areas of the scene were washed out, and it was hard to make out detail in the dark scenes.
The light and dark scenes are now much better.

Can't wait to try my old panel to see if it improves.

Negative results:
None

I used Rag method.
LCD: Samsung 510M 15 LCD
Details: I placed the LCD on a piece of dry cloth, put 3 layers of facial tissues onto the front (top) panel to cover only the panel, soaked the tissues with purified water, covered them with aluminum foil. 6 hours later, I tried to peel off the corner with a tape, failed; then I used a razer to do that and it peeled off easily. 99.5% in one piece and left was removed easily with the razer.

The panel with the AG removed looks perfect. The brightness and contrast were improved a lot, but one side of the LCD panel still produces much worse results than the other. and some rings began to appear on both edge of the screen.

Recommendation index: 10/10 for backside of LCD facing the laml, 7/10 for frontside (AG side) facing the lamp.

I used the rag method on my Benq 567s v2,
I soaked the AG using wipe up rags. (the paper ones you use around the sink etc).
I left it to soak for 3 and a half hours. It originaly started coming off easily, but about half way through became really difficult and I had to apply alot of pressure to remove the av, it also came off in about 10 peices, all the edges came of easily and clean tho. There was scuff marks from the glue, but these washed off easily with plain water.

Tested the monitor and it comes up very clear, i'll try to get some shots later. At the moment my projector is in peices because im redoing the optics, i'll try and get a update soon.

Okay:And worse :If it isn't going, and you have not waited 12 hours, then wait 12 hours. The first example here was a 3 hour soak, and the other was a 2 hour soak. For those to work would be an anomaly in the first place.

And people who are finding a lot of milky residue left behind, are probably just not waiting long enough.

If it doesn't go, do not use force. Just wait longer. Put differently (cough): IF IT DOESN'T GO, DO NOT USE FORCE (Yes, I am yelling ). JUST WAIT LONGER.

Mark.

Hyundai l72s 17" screen

Method of removal:

Initially rag method- left soaking for 9 hours tried to pry up AG layer but brought up the polarizer with it Doh!! tore a bit of the Polarizer off the edge about 2cm by 2cm triangle shaped. Stopped straight away.

Tried the stripper method- taped up the sides of lcd covering a small section of the AG edge and the torn ag+polar bit (Grrrr!). I used clear cello tape instead of masking as i foung it worked better in reducing the seeping of the stripper under the tape. I left the stripper (selley kwik strip) on for about 45 mins then scrapped off with a plastic scraper. repeated 3 times then wiped done with methylated spirits with a paper tower.

The stripper method worked well with the L72s. The rag method didn't work for me, i may have needed to have it on for longer but i just got freaked out when that little bit of polarizer came up.

pros: the screen is much more transparent than before. I haven't set up my PJ yet (still waiting on the pro lens) but it looks really good even with a torch shinning through it.

Cons: rag soak method did'nt work for me see above, but thats about it

Panel: Benq FP591, 15" 1024x768, Response: 16ms, Contrast: 450:1, Inputs: VGA/DVI-D

A/G Removal: H2O Ragging method

Removal Date: 11/16/2005

I stumbled across this topic yesterday after finally (mostly) finishing a basic LL design projector. While my initial projection results were good, I was left wanting. So, I pulled my panel (Benq FP591), freed it from the metal frame I had siliconed it to, and then proceeded to apply the H2O ragging method of a/g removal. I laid the panel on a clean dish towel and cut paper towel to reasonably conform to the panel dimensions. I applied ~1/2 cup of distilled water in drops over the surface of the paper towel such that the moisture was evenly distrubuted and added a second layer of toweling. I then covered the whole affair in a layer of wax paper to slow evaporation.

After approximately 90 minutes I gently probed a corner with a hobby knife was able to peel it up. Once I could get my thumb and index finger on the corner, I removed the wax paper and paper toweling quickly and then with little difficuly, slowly peeled the a/g layer off the panel. The a/g film came off in a single piece There was a little residual adhesive which I easily removed with a damp, soft cotton cloth, using a fresh patch of the cloth after each stroke so as to remove the glue without smearing it around too much. The result was a shiny, unharmed panel. Attached is a photo of the liberated a/g sheet.

Put the panel back in the projector and the resulting projected image is markedly improved. I had to actually reduce the contrast settings on the projector and HTPC. Much brighter, much sharper and much more saturated colors. This mod makes so much improvement it really should be a requirement of the design. If anyone is interested I will add a screenshot later. Unfortunately, in my zeal I did not take any screenshots before doing the a/g removal for comparison.

Click to view attachment

SAMSUNG 512n 15"

Image brightness 250
Display (projector) image contrast ratio 450:1
Max vertical view angle 110
Max horizontal view angle 140
Max sync rate (V x H) 75 Hz x 61
Anti-Glare Coating: Unknown

METHOD USED: WET PAPER TOWELS

I removed the lcd from the projector and frame, laying it AG side up on a table covered by a towel.

Using 3m painters tape I masked the exposed ffc's.

I used 3 layers of paper towels, moistening each layer with purified water.

In all I used a cup of water, dripping it on the paper towels with my fingers.

I then waited 2 hours and pried up a corner of the ag with an exacto blade and then peeled the entire ag off in one sheet much like the BenQ pictured above.

The lcd still works - !. So, at the very least, no harm was done. I will have to wait until tonight to see if the picture is improved.

I'm quite relieved that I don't have to try sanding and gooping! Not sure I'm brave enough for that.

THE GOOD

The picture is much, much, much brighter. I can have lights on in the kitchen adjacent to the family room where the projector room is and in the front dining room. It's almost bright enough to read comfortablely and I can see the picture clearly.

The contrast is vastly greater, and the colors are much more vivid. Plus, the picture is crisper - way crisper.

I've come to the conclusion that once this process is reasonably safe for the majority of monitors, this should be considered a vital part of the lcd stripping process.

I couldnt' score a camera tonight. So, no pics, but I'll try and get one soon.

THE BAD

There isn't any. Maybe I got lucky, but there's no downside here.

More Pics in my plog -

http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?a...=80#entry102994

I would definatly agree, I wasnt sure if it was a good idea to reapply rags with half the ag off. For the most part the monitor works 100% fine. The residue was not milky but transparant, you could see where it sat by looking on the angle, i washed this off after with water and it worked fine.

Add me to the list

Westinghouse 15" monitor from Best Buy

Rag Method


Left the rag on for a couple of hours and peeled up a corner. The Ag kept ripping so I left the rag on and came back the next morning, about 6 hours later. After the 6 hour soak the remaing A/G pulled off easily. Also there was no glue clean up on the half of the monitor that was allowed to soak overnight.


Good:
Picture is amazing, the colors are brighter

Bad:
None really, on the corner of the lcd where I started to pull of the A/G stress cracks developed in the polarizer. I thought I would see them on the screen but I was lucky and cannot. The cracks can be contributed to not waiting long enough before trying to remove the A/G

1) Viewsonic VG150, 15"
2) 350:1, 25ms
3) Rag method
4) None
5) November 18th
6) November 18th

Waited 4 hours, tap water, peeled off like butter, no residue left over at all. I held the AG film up to my bedroom lamp and it made a huge difference in light transmission.

Panel: BenQ 591 15"

Method Used: Wet Paper Towel & tap water

I cut the paper towels to the same size as the screen. I put 3 layers of it and just sprinkled them with water. I waited 6hrs, tried to lift one corner w/ box cutter but cracked a small piece of polarizer. I soaked the towels some more and waited 3hrs and tried again. This time I can see a clear plastic seperated from the cracked corner. Lifted it w/ box cutter and it peeled off easily. I think the problem was that the paper towels were not wet enough.

Good-
I tested the lcd and it still works The picture looks more sharper for me and color is better too.


Bad- Damaged my FFC's while removing them Had to cut the loose contacts to fix.

Panel: CMV-20D
Method: Water soak, then Stripper
Stripper used: Klean Strip KS-3 Premium Stripper
Date of removal: 11-19-05

The water-soak method didn't work on my panel, so I went and picked up a stripper, plastic scraper, some tape and some booz and had my self an kinky saturday evening. I masked everything off and sanded with a 240 grit paper then applied the stripper. I left the first coat on 30 minutes then I removed it. It took about 75% of the a/g off. Then I proceeded over the next 2-3 hours adding more coats of stripper to remove the rest. The edges were a huge PITA. I got most of it off, but I stopped because I was worried the next layer was starting to come up. I only use widescreen anyways so it wasn't a huge deal. I cleaned it all up with the booz I got (isoprop) Then my striper and I took turns getting a buzz from the fumes.

Results: So far the picture looks to have better contrast. Dark scenes are much easier to see now. I still have not played with any of the settings and it looks great. I am pretty excited about how well it all turned out. if you take your time and be careful it isn't that hard. have a few beers first if anything to calm your nerves.

How not to remove the AG from a Hami.

1) Hami 8"
2) 800x600, 300:1, 25ms or less
3) Rag soak attempt, sanding and stripper
4) No replacement yet
5) Ditto
6) 11-20-05

I tried the rag method first:

22:30 Begin distilled water rag soak
24:30 Unremovable
02:30 Ditto
06:30 Ditto, soak aborted

Eight hours didn't do it, so I switched to the stripper method:

220 Grit sand.

12:00 Klean Strip KS-3 applied
12:40 Partial removal, but the rest was hardened, alcohol cleanup
12:50 Reapply
13:15 AG off, streaky beyond power of alcohol and squeegee
13:25 Reapply
13:40 Squeegee + alcohol, still very streaky, also a bubble or lump formed.

If I did this again (and I will probably have to because I have no idea whether the panel will work when reassembled or how much the streaks and bubble will show up):
-I would remove the AG before taking anything apart like pjgibbs. Since the circuit boards were exposed I had the LCD sitting on a stack of CDs to take stress off of the connectors (by not forcing them flat). It was a shifting, floppy arrangement, the stripper went everywhere and I kept nicking things with the scraper. It was also hard to put any force down or work effectively on the two edges with connectors.
-I would not leave the stripper on for more than 30 minutes; otherwise it bonds with the AG layer into a hard crust.

If the electronics are still in order I might be able to replace the polarizer, if I can get the current one off (is there a thread specifically for replacement yet?). I'll try to test the panel with an overhead when it gets dark enough, and will edit this post.

Bubble


EDIT:
In my first application of KS-3 I waited too long (c. 40 mins.). The stripper and AG were mostly impervious to squeegeeing, so I used a plastic scraper. On closer inspection of the panel there is a scratch near the bubble, so I suppose this is how the stripper got to the polarizer in a later application. The damged area of the polarizer is white in a projection, and the streaks / residue are apparent.