Ill mail you a panel to strip with my digi cam, then you will have a better documentation tool , and i will have a nice unsnapped panel .

ummmm if you look at bottom of pic,, there is a black bar running thru it

that is border of LF screen, under it is the BOC,, you may be able to see difference.. better here in real life,,,
just an added point

hehehehhe I just watched a fly walking on my LCD

gawd giant fly too.... heheheh

Mikelish where are you?

oops forgot 'e' sorry

Raleigh, NC.

I think im going to conduct surgery tonight, i just cant help myself >.<.

geezz tou are 15,000 miles from here,, hehehehehh

ROAD/BOAT TRIP!

SAWEEET RESULTS THERE ELKEN!!! So the brilliance is still there even when you have a lamp on? Whats the wattage of the bulb that the lamp has? And again, back to my stupid question, did you butt up the collector to the panel without polarizer and see anything beneficial?

Whoah! Are those projection shots or just pics of the lcd?

Projection shots,,, my LCD shows no image at all no 'polar bear' on it,, looks like whit display,,, hehehhe

also is on LF screen too..

the retrieved 'polar bear' from a dead 11" laptop display is taped crudely over triplet,,, if look back thru my posts you will see it..

just doing another dead panel,, with an Acrylic clear cote spray,,, did one coat,, looks half as transparent as packaging tape,,, just did a second coat to see anymore difference waiting for drying,,

this will work I think,,,, but cleanliness will be only hassle.. cant have specs of dust

wouldn,t be hard to setup a sort of clean room, do it in a vert position to min chance of room dust settling,, but only drawback would be runs,,, so maybe three coats lightly applied,, who knows.. heheheh

clive....

Thanks pagercam, I'll swap to gifs tonight. I drew them up in AutoCAD, plotted them to a pdf (could have done it in black/white in Autocad but this was quicker) and then printscreened it. Pasted the printscreen into photoeditor and resized it. Pretty rough I know, but my main objective was to enable me to measure the same places on the screen without marking the wall. Tests are only relative to each other anyway. Up to this point there are no LCD tweaks whatsoever. LCD and video card settings are 'out of the box'

I'm for the plastic or car polish method. The plastic poish has only a limited cutting component though, a car polish might work better. The combination of polish and tape really stood out.

I'm trying to get hold of a polarbeer sheet now so I can do a diffuser strip. I don't want to move my test rig in any way so that we can get some quatitative readings of what removing the antiglare does.

By the way, I've seen a couple of those laptop screens recently with no antiglare and they are a complete PITA to use. They look great, but introduce any type of reflection into the equation and they are horrible.

....just got an email from Rosco, the place I got my IR mirror from. I asked about polarising films, they have 480mm x 500mm sheets, 6mil acetate base, 38% transmissivity. $$ are way too much at $125.50 delivered. Might place an order with 3dlens...

Hey Elken, in your honor consider this a gift.

hjeheheh my shark is fatter.....

hehe so is your new pj.

Is the camera causing the slight grainyness elken?

geeezzz all that makes feel hungry,, where's Mikau's sandwich??

Ive got some buffing wheels I used to polish my ikea reflector Im thinking that polishing and tape might be the way to go I cant believe Im even thinking of doing this........

peter

I'm a little worried about polishing with power tools... I mean, get too close to an edge connector and it's toast. Also, what about static? I would think that a buffing wheel might generate a lot of static.

precisely,,,,
better to stick to my orig formula

disturbance of surface, not recommended

good point DeathRay maybe that is a drastic measure
probably the best way would be to do it before the lcd is striped so the plastic housing would protect the edges
static would be a concern also....
peter

I wasn't too thrilled with the improvement I saw using tape, but just now I got a piece of tape and dipped my finger in soapy water, I then used my finger as a paintbrush as not to apply too much water. Just enough for my finger to slide over it. I then applied it to my lcd and smoothed it out. I dried the outside and gave it a minute for all the outside water to evaporate. While I was waiting I looked through the lcd (turned off at the time) I saw a small image of a 60 watt lightbulb in my reflector, I looked through my lcd at the bulb and saw a fuzzy spot of light. I then looked through the taped spot at the reflection and I saw a clear image of the light!

I fired up the projector and man what a differance. Like night and day! Reminds me a bit of that high power material.

Now I'm going to try applying a few rows of tape to get a bigger brightspot to judge by.

Anyways, this shows us the 512N is also a victim of antiglare.

Okay,

Elken: Sorry, but your formula was tape. Lets move ahead.

Mikau: Exactly .

I have some fine, medium and course grade dental polish on my desk . Don't ask.

I'll give it a go and let you know.

Guys, for the love of Nemo, no more polarizer removals until we establish polishing. Then you can make an educated choice.

I checked out the Clear Magic Cover. Really sorry, Mike. I really should have looked at the stuff. It's diffused as you say.

I picked up some 3M Wetordry P320 Grit, P600 Grit, P800, And the money: P2000 Grit. Sweet. So between toothpaste, the dental polishes, and these 3M wet sandpapers, I should be able to unleash the all holy on this test panel. Unfortunately, I do not have a digital camera, so you'll just have to take my word for it until I can find one.

I also looked into rubbing compounds. Turtle Wax has a couple to choose from. One contains a cleaner, and the other is pure compound. I have been advised (though I don't believe it) that the 3M 2000 grit will give me a smoother finish that the compound, though. So I didn't pick any up (I have the dental polishes, and toothpaste anyway).

The science behind buffing out the anti glare is solid. Much better than adding tape or other encapsulation. You just simply would never get the cleanliness, and refractive match that you need. Until we fully establish any issues with full removal, it could even be optically superior to that.

As far as static and power tools. I'm trying to get this done by hand (I don't even have any power tools on hand right now).

Mark.

Ive used the turtle wax rubbing compound, Made a slight improvement but didnt match the tape. I will go downstairs and give it a whirl for awhile.

thanks elken,
I wish I could find a super wide clear tape
I dont think packing tape will do as far as were they join together it will show up in the projection.I will call my local micheals and see if they have magic cover.
peter

[quote=Mark,Oct 12 2005, 12:30 AM]
Okay,

I checked out the Clear Magic Cover. Really sorry, Mike. I really should have looked at the stuff. It's diffused as you say.

nevermind I guess ill stick to the tape...

Pick a small spot, and just go to town on it.

Mike: Is it the cleanser type? What type is it?

pjgibbs: That post also points out that I am working to obtain solid results from polishing. I will also do my best to figure out the tape, and the polarizer removal. The investigation should be complete.

I've had to cheerlead new methodologies too much throughout this thread. It's frustrating.

Mark.

Mark, I used turtle wax rubbing compounds i believe for cars . It was red and looked like clay . Same with toothpaste, not as much improvement as just sticking a piece of tape down.

check this site out they have a 6" wide roll that might work for my 8" hami

http://www.littlegreenhouse.com/accessory/plastic.shtml

peter

I still believe that DeatRay had it right when he suggested signage films. I talked to some people at the craft store, and they suggested the same thing.

Buffing progress so far (5 mins elapsed ): it turns out 3M 2000 grit is very powerful stuff. I passed maybe 25 times accross the surface with almost no pressure, and already felt I had gone deep enough. Of course, the finish looked sandpapered. So then I worked on that with the toothpaste. Was taking too long (About 30 seconds ) so I switched to the course dental polish. This stuff is powerfull too. Sort of evened things out. I was just surprised at how effective it cut. I wonder what the granule shape is? So then up to medium polish, and fine. End result first go: anti glare is gone, 3M scratches remain. Doh! So now I need to do a section with just dental polish. Should work out a lot better. This is looking promising. The end result of my first go has significantly less diffusion. For those that are wondering, I test diffusion by looking at the reflection of a light bulb. The sharper any object placed between that bulb is, or the sharper the bulb itself, the less difusion.

And toothpaste is definately the finest polish amongst all those listed here. It remains the ideal final step.

Mark.

Mark, Elken..just thinking how it is hard to beleive how far we have come. Makes you sit back with aww as to the impact this has made to this community. Geeez, our very own catagory... Extreme Mods..., almost sounds like the tip of the iceburg of homebuilt pj's.

Sorry, kinda dazed off there from all this Dr Jeckal and Mr Hyde work we're doing.
sim

I will be taking my test panel, overhead, and real lcd to a pro window tint shop tomorrow. They seemed anxious to see just what i had in mind. Kind of reminds me of buying MH ballasts and being asked what strain of cannabis i would be growing >.< . Will post follow up after i see what they can offer.

LMAO.. Yeah.. I was asked Grow light? in a box? Whatcha growing?

I'm growing a picture. Thanks.

Signwriters use a clear self-adhesive vinyl to overlaminate.

I stuck a small sample onto my LCD as a quick and dirty test.

Projector was on for only a few minutes when I took these pictures and its the middle of the day, curtains are pulled but fluuro lights all on.

Top left picture is with projector on but LCD turned off. See what you think.

Edit: Screen is BOC.

to Meyer2 How did you apply the film?

Any problems with inconsistent adhesion (little blotches all over) or air bubbles? Did you apply wet or dry? I had no luck with wet. Couldn't get all the water out, and dulled the overall look.

What are your impressions in terms of brightness? % increase?

Would it be possible to see a closeup of some thick black and white stripes? We need to know if black levels are altered.

edit: If you are willing on repositioning the film, it would be nice to see it truly half and half. Problem is right now the comparison is right on the graduation from the bright spot.

Thanks,
Mark.

I applied it with soapy water, not much soap, only about 3 or 4 drops of liquid soap per litre of water. The soap allows you to remove all the air bubbles.

Signwriters use a plastic squeegee to apply vinyl but you can make one out of thin sheet material, mine is 100x60mm and 2-3mm thick. Also make sure there are no sharp edges.

I'll do the black/white stripes and a more comprehensive test later on tonight, I'm supposed to be working right now.

Edit: spelling error.

A Bondo® spreader would probably be ideal as a squeegee. They are very soft plastic and shouldn't scratch with a wet application.

For a dry aplication, the more ridgid sign squeegee would probably be in order. (With a protective cloth as MrWaxhead described in post #714.)

perfect, also put a sheet of paper or similar over the vinyl before you squeegee because even the smoothest squeegee can put minute scratches on the vinyl.

Vinyl is ideal because it is slightly porous and any trapped water due to imperfect application will eventually disappear, including small bubbles. This does not apply to polyester or other plastics which are generally non porous.

Very good. Does vinyl come with a protective paper sometimes? Or is that transfer paper that has to be applied? I suppose any paper just layed on top would work for us.

i have been thinking about it, and got to some personal conclusions;

the antiglare removal does not improve the lcd trasmitancy on it's strict mean of the word; The trasmitancy remains equal (somewhere 7% on average) but the difusiveness does improve dramatically. This means smaller arc on the triplet, and more light on the projection way. More control on the light path.

ok after a lot of and a lot of testing

have concluded, small polarizer works well at triplet,, but has inherent issues with eveness of pure polariztion,,, I still like the result however,, I have just a test spray of acrylic on orig benq polar bear,, now there is no way it can live aginst the panel due to imperfections of surface, from peeling,, they will show up terribly

but if mounted to the surface of a split configuration (mounted to fresnel) IE lcd side,, those imperfections wont show....

so if you do peel the antiglare and wish to reuse it,, peel very carefully...

I now have to unsplit optics again and do this,, the reason , i feel this will work is when I used test piece, imperfections did not show but had pefect image,, From the polarization side of things....

clive....

Rox:

http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s...indpost&p=94172

To add to the above, the total internal reflections are largely going to send the light back into the light engine.

I think my test panel has compensation film on the analyzer side. This could be a problem. I am too tired ritght now, but I will investigate this further in the morning.

Mark.

Interesting thread guys,
one question. My friends projector had a fresnel sandwhiched in between two panes of glass. We started to notice that in the middle there was a much brighter "blob" that grew as you watched a movie. Turns out that it was actually the frenels flatside (bulb side) melting to the glass. Hes used it like this ever since and reading this forum I was wondering if using a "gel" between the frenel and the glass would have the same effect. Someone here mentioned "rainX" as its a clear wax solution.......

The reason I ask is my projector has both its fresnels sandwiched in glass and Id love to see the brightness gain he got in that blob in my whole projected image.

elken what do you mean by "polarization eveness"?

is what i was asking for when i said "contrast drop"?

I can tell you right now, my black levels actually IMPROVED, due to introducing a new layer (tape).

When you're trying to polish out the clearcoat on a car you NEVER start with a lower grit sandpaper. Always start with 2000 grit. You will never buff out the scratches from 300-1500 grit sandpaper even after you sand over it with 2000 grit.
Also it is very very hard to hand buff out the scratches from 2000 grit. That's why I recommended a high speed buffer. If you want to try to hand bufff out the scratches like I said use a WAX with a slight grit to it (like a Cleaner Wax) and polish , polish, polish. Then you can use a regula fine polish wax to finish.

I agree toothpaste seems easier but IMHO it will never completely smooth out the Anti-Glare. You need to sand and buff for that to happen. I get home tomorrow and I have a cracked LCD that I will give it a try on and let you know how it goes.

Good work guys. It's going to be nice to have 20-30% more light and better contrast and colors in the new Theater Room.

Dazzzzzzzla you awake here????

only just

How did the test go with the polariser on the LCD , un-split?

Ok found align of unsplit very very critical,,, but that aside

I now have found how to get perfect light spread over corner to corner,,,

its wierd to have the task bar almost within 95% illumination and sharpness too

bloody superb,,,

but have also acsertained that the poarizers have to be a matched pair to get good image..

I found a way to part the antiglare company from the actual polarizer,,, took three hours of work but now have fully transparent orig BENQ 17" ''polar bear"" umm patents pending hehehehheeh polar bear that is...

i have 17"polar ummmmm my downunder style just hanging out in front of the '''trippy'' more patents pending hehehhe,,, and no lumenosity,,, no glowies ,, just a bloody dam fine perfect incredible stupendous gawd dam image....


does that cover it,,, when we talk again I will go into full details,,, Today I just ignored everything and put butt up head down and went for it,,,, and I got the six aces,,,,,, hehehehheeh