So at what point can we say that he has extracted every bit of information possible before procceding with the rear polarizer removal?

...and will it be a hard sell to elken2004... to go that far?

If he's going to do it, then taking off 1/2 of the already stripped area will give us a nice side by side comparison.

This will probably be a bit dissappointing as the difference won't be as pronounced as the antiglare side but it will be nice to know the potential of a full strip.

I'm most looking forward to seeing the predicted optimal polarizer placement (between the Fresnel's).

Elken: how about dropping the Polar Bear () between the panel and the condensor as an intemediate? First up against the panel, then up against the fresnel.

Mark.

actually that is not what happens,, yes hue'ing kicks after a point tried that effect

however it does give you brightness control,,,, use it as a loose term,, but effective

now for the retrieved shiny rear polar bear

took all this time to clean it thouroughly,,, tried every thing,,

best closet liquid at hand was tradional nail polish remover,, not perfect

now for those who picked up when I asked SIM for loan of his wife,, and dont ask how that came about !!

contrary to anyones point,, It belongs to my daughter hehehhehe,,

now is fully clean and in good condition,,
the polar bear works properly from one side only
the other side when viewing PJ light which is near pure white goes from Iriduim blue,,, wowy colour to a very golden yellow, this the effect of other layer still part of polariser,,

the correct viewing direction goes from dark to light with no colour tinge at all

a spectral enhancer,, limiting it to visible spectrum only,, I used a very expensive spectra physics laser light meter to measure it,,

clive

ok,,, before this night ends

gawd forbid..


I am gonna strip my 17" benq 71+e 8mS 600:1 16.2 million colour (18 bit)

she is gonna be bare butt and naked

reason for this,, I am happy with quality of image with polar bear behind triplet

it is perfect as best as i can tell,, need now full movie lenght epical test,,,,

if it deos not work i will bare my butt,, on international TV......

SHUDDER .

At the very least you should test the plan first, Clive . At the very least you should try the polarizer before the condensor fresnel as per the plan. I have every bit of confidence that things will work out fine, but there is still this feeling like things are still smouldering.

Mark.

currently striping entire half of lappy,,,, while she is running

surgery on live patient,, and concious heheheheheh

MArk Mark patience it is coming the other side of the universe,, I will goto the dark side soon !!!!!!

but allow me to drag it out here,,,,

heheheheh spectators expect it.....

like a soapie,,

For the life of me I'm trying to understand what we have finally achieved here. Is it:

1) Total stripping of panel of of everything both sides, leaving the substrate bare?
and
2) Adding just 1 polarizer 'alone' behind and attatched to triplet but adjustable and seperate to focusing?

In otherwords just one polarizer in our pj's is all that is needed?

Over the area that already had an analyzer, I agree, but over the cleared area I definately wouldn't call it a brightness control. My reasoning is as follows:

If you start turning the adjustment (intending to darken the image) a fully lit pixel will start getting darker, and a fully blacked pixel will start getting lighter.

SIMUL8TOR: It sounds like Elken will be removing all the front layers off his screen and replacing the needed analyzing function with his commercial slab polarizer. This is fine, and very exciting. I should hope the long term plan remains exactly as it was set forth here:

http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s...indpost&p=92105

Everyone needs to bear in mind that I only presented the idea of the polarizer at the triplet on page 1 to get peoples minds turning. There really is no practical advantage to having the polarizer at the triplet but for small polarizer choices. There are several theoretical disadvantages. I have spent this thread weighing the issues with such a setup and I feel you will not have achieved the maximum theoretical image quality improvements. It seems to be a fine intermediate step to take towards The Theoretical Ultimate, though.

Mark.

ok

here we go

top left quarant now fully devoid front and rear,,,,

put my sheet polar in fornt of triplet screen side,, a bare faint image so this proves the twist of collimated light from Lamp source, reason why its showing faint , is cause crystals are in diffent states thru matrix,, one polarizer is showing it

oh top half also devoid of antiglare/pol side too


it is very hard to see in this image but extend your vision it si faint bu there,,

scaled idown mages here arent good for this demo,, grrrr

new pics

Would it be alright if you would use an image like this instead:

Click to view attachment

Full size image link

Just having a hard time seeing the details.

Try to get it full screen, with the details over the test area, too.

Oh, and remember, the comparison is exagerated by the polarizer layering. I'm getting impatient waiting to see the polarizer over just that section on the fresnel (on the inside) .

EDIT: that site has a ton of other great images, too.

Thanks,
Mark.

Mark......

Ummmmm


BENQ 71 antiglare is half off ,, going the whole way

GAH!. . So you are removing just the anti glare, and leave the front polarizer behind? That would be quite interesting . It's a possibility I have been forgetting to follow up on.

Hope to see a really shocking (in a good way) half and half Nemo poster in the morning. Good luck .

Mark.

nope down to glass all in one mylar it is...

Your a game man!

Cool. Now that the analyzer is seperated, you should see about buffing the ripples out. Fine wet sanding, or buffing could do the trick. Obviously you want a super shiny flat surface in the end. Then just clean the leftover films off the other side.

What effect does nail polish remover have on the anti-glare (don't test on the BenQ peice. Or did you already cut it in half?)? Just curiouse if it can be broken down with a solvent. Paint thinner smoothes out some plastics.

After you cleaned up the rear polarizer, did you find both sides were equally smooth/shiny?

All in all, I would just highly recommend you keep that front BenQ polarizer as intact as possible.

Mark.

put it this way no cleaning needed

came off like a 20 yr old girls nickers

not a ripple in sight

well T-Minus 12 mins and counting till main firing of Shuttle BENQ71e+ mission to illuminating Heights...

clive

Wow.. all I have to say is wow. I don't have the nuts to strip my LCD down to bare glass but I was thinking of applying a bit of rain-x to my anti-glare side to fill in the rough surface.

Rain-x might be a bit thin (thinking out loud) perhaps a wax of sort?

I told ya you could watch and no-one would notice but who woulda thunk that the screen would preserve polarization(that is what you are saying right?) ...with 2 projectors polarized differently we DO have 3D!! you're my hero elken....

Hi guys, this thread's going ballistic, it took me the last hour to catch up just 'cause I didn't check in thismorning!

I like where this idea is going, it's already showing what improvements are possible.

I'd like to see one of the Vikuiti products involved in this mix. I checked out the (BEF-RP) 90/24 which looks ideal for our application, but seems to be available in 8" square sheets.

I called 3M on Friday, but the Vikuiti product manager hasn't got back to me yet. I'm going to try to get a sample pack sent to me of the entire Vikuiti range.

I'd like to think, that with utilising a BEF, we can line our lightboxes with reflective mylar, mirrors or whatever to gather as much 'wasted' light as possible.

Elken, I hope the denuding of your LCD goes well

Oh no... What should I tell the wife now.. I want to build another PJ babe... for the same room.

hmmm....actually I'm wondering if you could split the light between 2 lcds...yeah, use 7" lilliputs in the same box(after all you will be recombining the light at the screen so the total lumens will stay the same? yes?...or...wonder if you could have 2 movies on the same screen with 2 different polarization alignments...hmmm..... good way to watch your movie and the kids(or wife) watch theirs....sorry, need more coffee....

Here's one from left field (sort of). How about the idea of placing the second polariser in the LF screen itself? On top of the mirror, under the mud?

man that would be one big polarizer! unless they make polarizing paint!

sorry...too early I meant "man that would be one big polar bear!"

Click here, then click on polarbears. The largest available is 500x1000 so you'd need 2 for a decent sized screen. The only thing I'd be worried about is making the join invisible.

interesting idea, wonder if it would make a difference since the light would pass thru the polarbear twice?

Holy Moley,,, what been going on here,,,


heheheh


Umm sorry Benq is up and about fully healthy after surgery

and what do I get when I put polar bear in da way

the movie armageddon on tv,,, was white screentill I put the polariods on,,, oh how bl...dy bizzare,, just had to try it,,,,,

heheh it works,,,, but

I think I'll see how the current theory goes before I begin adding extra 'trials' into the mix. I think Elken's head is about to explode anyway (maybe that was the popping sound I heard a few minutes ago...) so I'll see what his results are first.

A test panel shouldn't be hard to construct, I think i'd tend towards this substrate assemby: mud|clear acrylic||reflective mylar. Something tells me that getting the directly on the mirror would help.

The reason that I threw this into the mix was a few days ago I had the thought of throwing a into a LF screen to see if it would somehow help with ambient light rejection. Eleken's comment of having the front working pretty much anywhere he held it, prompted me to suggest laminating it in the screen.

oops hit wrong key,,,


umm strange thing here,, now all my contrast/briteness controls in purevideo codec,, work like a normal tv,,,,, so much more range,, bit hard to explain

colour and gamma work all different too,,,,, verdict BETTER

clive...


geez I wonder if I am the first in da world to do this????


I gotta say everything about it is better skin tones are superb,,,,,

I say to hell with antiglare,,, eliminate eliminate eliminate.....

even the adds dont bloom no more like fake pics,,,,,

to watch this is a bit like watching a plasma,,,, the image has life......

umm forgot to mention,, a polar bear has been bulldog clipped to case backside of triplet,, (field fresnel side),,, all curvy and buckled.. and yet no harm to image quality

the only thing I do have is is light leak,, but only on sides,,, maybe from panel edges,, will follow up with pic shortly

is it posible for you to ask somebody a luxmeter? somehwere 6,5% is the average meassured trasmision by now (average is calculated with supra's measurment and mine, i never heard of other measurement... ) so if you could meassure your improved lcd trasmitancy it would be great. Also would like to know if there is a droped contrast issue on doing it.

also, i m confused, did you removed front polarizer+antiglare only is it?

thanks for your work.

pics

first is with new nude panel,,, antiglare/polar only

tv movie paused,, live tv

second is the polariser from anothe small panel fully cleaned,, but not flat hehhe

the other two are surgery of BENQ 17",, my prime baby sob sob heheheh

nother pic

So the brightness is def increased? Hard to tell in photos (photos and projection are always a wash IMO )

Here’s an interesting link that I’ve had tucked away for some time.
http://www.nasatech.com/Briefs/June01/NPO20824.html

DJ

Edit: Forgot to ask have we established if the fresnel is acting as a ¼ wave retarder?

yes there is a definate increase,, already proven

just did a half and half test.... to verify that.. yep no less than 20%,, but no more than 45%
the biggest increase is in the whites,, also the colour has so much more pop to it..

what about a luxmeter? it would objetivelly meassure the light increase as well as the contrast drop (if there is any).

geez define the quater wave retarded one for me,, should know but long since forgotten

pleeeeese,,, heheh

nay mind,, rememeber now,, laser technology,, beam splitting dicrioc surfaces etc etc
brewster angles with wavelength mirrors which recycled coherent light back and forth wile allowing coherent light straight thru same mirror,,, black darn magic

Dazzla I have one question for you,,,,

in this new setup which works supremely,, there is one thing which I am getting

look carefully at last pics of mine you will see it either side,,,it only happens when polar bear is past field fesnel to trippy or other side trippy,, gone when placed against between lcd and field fressy,,, yawwnnnn.....

a glow on left and right sides of screen top to bott,, I should be able to figure it out,,, seems familiar,, just braindead,, and had a few ports too from the stress of doing what I did today, IE attack benq primus,, hehehehheh

been watching two movies and TV,,,, I am very impressed with no antiglare/polariser ,,, big difference,, currently the cleaned polar bear is bull dog clamped outside trippy,,,, LF screen side,,, actually very crudely,,, still get surpeme pic''y


can someone please find Mr "Mastermind" and let him know that all is not lost with his panel,,,,

Ok,, for all of you who have been following this thread

It is very important that before you even consider doing either of the two methods

I have tested, that you,,, bite the infernal bullet,, and read every single shred of info that has been deposited here, before even contemplating embarking upon this brave new adventure,, because it is virtually a one way ticket for your panel

IE not easy to revert it back to a normal LCD panel, without difficulty..


so think twice then do it


The more I watchthis new display,, the better it strikes me how much more pop it has,,

must fire up Arkays PJ and run it side by side again as we did three days ago

dual displays spanned as 2048 x 1024 it was,, and see the difference now

Good morning gents, my you all are relentless. Come back after some sleep and find 2 pages of more reading. And polarbears printed all over the place. I see we even have brainchild in our midst. I'm deeply honored brain for your interest in this experiment.

and here is another fact

the panel is running at least 8 degrees C cooler,,

but the wierdest factor is that the light engine area,, measured just above the heat shield is running at 20 degrees C cooler....


my gawd,, even while watching this CRT which usaully kills your PJ viewing,, IE
typing here then glancing at PJ,, is as brite. so to speak,,, before denuding panel,, if I glanced at PJ,, had to wait till eyes adjusted,,, not no more,, and to add to this fray,,, there is a flourescent light on above and behind me...

sorry just trying to give a feeling for what I have achieved by this calculated risk...

++++

darn port glass is empty,,, anyone got some Galway?
clive

It’s hard to see what you are describing in the pic. I can only see a very faint white line running vertically. If that is it then my guess is bi-fringe or maybe the polarised light is entering the polar bear at a too step of an angle causing it not to be blocked.

DJ

This is fascinating. It amazes me how much time we spend taking a carefully made product apart, one of those universal ironies I suppose.

I would like to add a caveat for the n00bs just jumping into this post:

The projector works well without this modification, build one the 'normal' way first, get your hands dirty and *wow* your friends. When you get restless and have saved up enough to replace the LCD you're about to demolish, go for it.

Dazzzla that line is actual border of TV frame

it is a glow,, on the 100" diag screen it comes in only from edges about 4 or 5 inches

like a light pollution type of glow,,

I just took a couple more pics,, will post them shortly..


clive

ps thanx brain for that warning and notation..

Always full of theories I’d say the reason the temp is cooler behind the lcd is because the heat that was originally trapped by the front polar bear is now moved forward to its new position and dispersed in the front chamber. Does the new polar bear get hot?

DJ

ok



DAZZZLA look at pic and the right handside beyond MCE2005 frame you will see the vertical glow,,,

second one shows how crudley the polar bear is pegged to work...


GRRR wish I had a better digi cam,,, that screen shot looks lousy compared to real life view....