I'm pretty sure that it won't work since it'll have to be cut at a 45* angle. Otherwise that would be awesome.

I've been reading the different AG removal threads but would still have a few Qs.

I have a 15" Samsung 510N LCD.

1. Is the AG only on the front panel?
2. Does anything have to be removed from the rear of the panel?
3. Where exactly does the AG start, is it very noticable?
4. What happens if I lift "everything" up and not just the AG, will I have to buy a polarizer etc?

tx

I may have found what some if not all this layer of antiglare is comprised of. Just FYI if anybody's interested.

The method for producing an antiglare film as claimed in claim 6, wherein the particles are particles of polymethyl methacrylate resin, fluororesin, vinylidene fluoride resin, silicone resin, epoxy resin, nylon resin, polystyrene resin, phenol resin, polyurethane resin, cross-linked acrylic resin, cross-linked polystyrene resin, melamine resin, benzoguanamine resin, TiO.sub.2, Al.sub.2 O.sub.3, In.sub.2 O.sub.3, ZnO, SnO.sub.2, Sb.sub.2 O.sub.3, ZrO.sub.2, ITO, MgF.sub.2, SiO.sub.2 or aminosilicate.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6869672.html

sim

I can trump that ... H2O .... game over(well for most anyway)

i just finish removing my ag last nigh using marks water method i took pictures as refrence


1. you can clearly see the edge of the ag layer
2. after taping of edges to keep any excess water away from curcuit boards i applied wet towels
3. using a plastic straw to even the water dispursion and make sure all areas are in even contact with the ag
4. using cotton shop cloths i added 3 more layers adding water and rolling out air pockets and keeping water even
5. two hours in i used a razor on a non image area (be carefull lay off the caffine) and peeled up the corner
then i could pull on the plastic it was still adheared pretty good so i let it sit
6.-7. after 4 hours 17 minutes the glue had mostly weakend and i was able to peel film off it was about the consistancy of pealing a static sticker off of glass i had no glue residue left on lcd to clean up at all
this may indicate that other attemps have soaked to long allowing the glue to start
8. glare diffrence before and after

my picture is much much brighter 30% and the contrast is as much better also

eizo l365 15"

Excellent work neorazz, can you post your model monitor and such with pictures at this thread for others to review. Just read in what is needed.

For those of you who are planning future removals we'd like to post all attempts at this thread good or bad for others to see what they may be dealing with when purchasing certain monitors. This will also show us a trend on the type of antiglare used on monitors and hopefully help in our approach for proper removal methods based on the type.

http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8283&st=0

Thanks.
sim

I just looked at the numbers again. The polarization.com Super High Contrast polarizer is the highest contrast polarizer in the world (as far as I know) worth looking at with a maximum theoretical contrast of 4833:1. The Sanritz Ultra Super High Contrast polarizer is brighter, but has a maximum theoretical contrast of 4020:1. The difference seems to be that the eye doesn't care beyond a certain point, so brightness becomes a bigger factor for perceived contrast. So the Ultra would probably be better still if it became available, but this certainly is a very nice polarizer. I think people will be very happy with it.

Has anyone emailed to confirm there is no anti-glare on that thing?

The problem with the 3dlens.com is that the parallel transmittance is very low, so while it is and extremely high contrast polarizer (6000:1) it is just too dark IMO. Technically the 3dlens.com is the highest contrast but it just isn't worth looking at when comparing brightness IMO.

edit to put into perspective just how good this thing is, the LG polarizers have a maximum theoretical contrast ratio of 450:1. Switching to this polarizer could very well be an upgrade despite the loss of transmittance without optical adhesive.

Do you mean comparing the brightness of the 3dlens non-adhesive to the Polarization.com Super-High Contrast?

I used the the POA1 from 3dlens and compararing it to my original BenQ 567 polar I could not tell the difference, either in brightness (I would call it opacity, is that right?) or cross-transmittance, but this monitor has a stated contrast of 450:1.

Are you saying we could more than double the contrast rating of our LCDs' by replacing the polars with these new polars from either Polarization.com or Sanritz?

In my opinion the biggest downside of DIY projectors is the contrast, or lack of it. This may be related to brightness though, I'm not sure

Started stripping a CMV-520D last night. Applied a thick layer of towels and watered thoroughly. Covered with Saran wrap and went to bed. Played with a a few corners this AM. It was like pulling a cold roll of tape. I ripped a corner so I trimmed the towels back to the edge of the rips and covered it again. Im pretty sure that I have only the AG layer. Its white, blurry and surprisingly thick. You know the protective plastic pieces thast come on monitors to keep you from scratching during shipping and packaging? Its literally that thick. I showed it to a friend and his first thought was that it was "amazingly thick"...

The intial soak was about 10 hours. Im leaving it on as I go to work today. If I check when I get home, it will be 20 hours. 9:30PM EST will be 24 hours.

One thing is for sure, this is NOT coming off like butter.

One thought I had coming in from work, What about the PH of the water we are using? I have seen some people use tap water and some use distilled. Im wondering if the PH might effect the saturation effect. If I remember right tap water that has been chlorinated is acidic? No?

Toying with the idea of dropping a little White Vinegar onto the towel mass and letting it do its thing...
Im certain this can be done, but its going to require some patience.

Hello. New to this whole AG removal concept and successes

I'm curious, has anyone tried to actually measure their improvement in contrast ratio after removing the AG film?

I've tried searching the postings, but no luck so far...

It would be easy enough to do with a good light meter. Best method would be to use the ANSI checkerboard pattern. But any approach should work that compares the brightness of a completely black part of the screen, such as the "black bars" above and below a widescreen movie (or at the credits of a movie) with a fully lit up screen - such as when the LCD is on, but there is no video signal hooked up.

Your eyes are all telling you that the contrast ratio has improved after removing the AG. It would be interesting if you can now measure a CR ratio that is higher than the LCD manufacturer's rating.

That would be an incredible accomplishment indeed...

Just make sure you are projecting inside a large dark room, preferably with dark walls, so very little light gets reflected back onto your screen raising your black levels, and hence reducing your contrast.

Said to hell with it and went with a modified strip based on the Methylene Chloride method. Bruised up the surface with some 220c, then applied stripper and used a plastic scraper to pull it off. I used a marine formula because it had the phrase "may soften plastics over time" on it...total strip time 45 min.

Before...

Click to view attachment

After...

Click to view attachment

I decided on the marine formula because epoxy based resins are frequently used on boats. PVA is apparently used in boats as well. I took the chance based on the idea that CMV had on overflow factory they contract with and mine had the non standard controller chip. Leading me to believe that the factory used a different line and bonding technique than the home factory. Different supply chain means different parts.

Yes. The brightness is significantly better with the polarization.com Super.To clarify, the polarization.com super polarizer is manufactured by Sanritz. I don't know how much improved, but I believe you would see a very large improvement in some cases. Especially if both the front and rear polarizers are swapped.Yes. Brightness is a factor. As mentioned, it seems brightness of the polarizer can be more important to perceived contrast than the extinction.

Thats good news Mark, thanks.

Mikau said on the other thread the Super-High Contrast polar was a clear no tint material, so given that most LCD polars are a kind of smokey grey/blue colour, or at least mine are, then this fact alone would increase the brightness. By brightness of the polar I assume you mean clarity or opacity and not the brightness of the projected image.

I'm a bit worried about these air interfaces though. I would love unsplit fresnals but I get artifacts which I think are caused by the acute angle of light passing through the LCD around the edges of the LCD. These artifacts appear as reversed images/colours. Other people don't complain about this on unsplit pjs' so I suspect the air interface on my replaced polar.

The brightness and clarity of the polarizer are directly related to the brightness and clarity of the projected image.

I think you may be misunderstanding Mikau when he says it is a clear polarizer. I believe he is referring to it's neutral color: there is no blue shift, and the fact that it makes very little impact on pre-polarized transmittance. There will definitely be perhaps a 10-15% drop in transmittance with the addition of the polarizer. When viewed in the open (not pre-polarized) there would be a 55% drop in transmittance and it would appear grey.Have you tried unsplit before the strip without the air interface?

Edit:
Sorry, it was rude of me not to comment on your reply. I see what you mean about the tint of the polar under different conditions, that makes sense now.



No I didn't unfortunately, did the anti-glare removal first, needed keystone correction before, not now. Anyway, I'm starting a new projector with the new Pro lens and fresnals and a Samsung 770P so I can start all over and test things progressively along the way

I had a thought about applying the adhesive polars.

I would believe that they would apply these under vacuum. If you were to pick up some sort of application fluid. I used to use some when making signs to float the vinyl untill I squeeged it down. If you also have access to a vacuum packaging unit, or they sell home models for personal use that include the packing bags. you could precut the polar, slick the lcd with the application fluid, put the polar in place and put it in the vacuum bag and suck the air out. it should remove all the air and fluid from between the lcd and polar. you may want to squeege or rub the polar with a soft cloth while under vacuum to ensure the bond. then release the air.
Anyone want to give it try?
Moose

as an after thought I had watched a show about laminating furniture. they put a top plate over the surface to be laminated to provide even pressure while under vacuum.

is tha a-g on one side or both i have a liquidvideo-a150x1.if it on the lamp side will i need to peal it off.

well i just took the ag off today let the water and paper towel on for maybe 4 hrs and pealed it off and it is clearer and brighter and i left the lcd in the pj to

hey all - Just did a removal on a Dell, it came off in pieces, I think from an uneven soak. I resoaked those areas and they came off. Soak was 12-16 hrs. I do have a patch of what I think is glue, I can scrape it off with a knife edge, but I worry about scratching. It definately isn't AG, but it still seems to blur the pixels. I don't have a projector yet to see what it really does. Any ideas for getting it off? Thanks all - Tim

Any feedback on Goo Gone for AG glue removal? Is it relatively safe on the polarizer? Thanks - Tim

Well after reading bits and pieces of this while at work. As soon as I got home I started the dismantling of the projector. Took me longer to take the projector apart than it did to strip. I had to remove the lcd from the frame I siliconed it into.

Anyway LCD is a BENQ FP591 soaktime was 90 minutes. AG came right off, as already described like pulling a sticker off glass. Letting the lcd dit over night, I'm hopin g it to be as half as good as described.

I'm expecting this big of a Wow, maybe not wow or WOW but Wow Let us know what you think JShoot. This thread could need a little dusting.
sim

Ok, Wow, is it brighter? Not sure. First impressions would be, yes, but its so clean and crisp that I think its misleading. I played with the contrast and brightness but the later only changed slightly the contrast changed considerably. I will know more in a day or two after some movies. that will be the real test.

Pics...man....pics, give us a taste if you can. Oh, do see any fresnels rings to the sides of your projection? Check my other thread on the index of this one. It will help you find clues to fixing this if you see any rings.

Has anyone removed and replaced both front and rear polarizers?

Any one have a scrap left of the high grade polarizer from polarization.com?

I have done an AG strip very easily my panel came from a gatway profile LCD, the way I did it was with regula distilled water heated up to about 106 degrees fahrenheit doing the towel soak method, it came off within two hours easily. excuse my grammer and spelling, I'm just so excited to have pulled it off so easily.

Another successful removal of the Liquidvideo 1515/1512 antiglare using the rag soak method. Took about 6 hours and it came off semi easily. I was sure to rip it off in small strips as to not put too much stress on the panel. The final outcome was a little bit sharper picture, but nothing too breathtaking. I already had an awesome picture as it was.

Ok an addition,,


with the water soak method,,, I believe in quick and done,,, as it will minimize long term damge to the polar bear


I have also found after doing now four panels,, that where the AG seems to be a bit stubborn in lifting,, if you wet the side (after you have a corner lifted,, wet the zone between the lifted part and the raw polar bear surface,, it will suddenly release quite easily,,

But you must have already left paper towels on the ag for at least and hour to two hours before trying this method..

this info is brought to you by the infamous lappy and 'now BENQ' murderer,

Holy smoke,, I had to fight thru the cobwebs here,, to do that last post !!!!!!!!!!!!

you are pestering your own thread elken

ummmmmm its SIM's thread

More like the A/G team thread...salutes to you and Mark.

i started reading this a few days ago and i never wanted to jump ahead and see how much pages there where, so i just kept reading, i gto to about page 8 and i got bored of is so i just went through the pages clicking on the links, then i got bored of that and i jumped to the end, and wow way to many pages to read from the start:S

no sum up of this thread anywhere? lol

Oh jeez, do I now have to create another thread to direct everybody to the INDEX thread that will direct to the main points of the original thread?

Check the Extreme Catagory again seesoe and look for the Pinned: INDEX FOR THE ANTIGLARE STORY. I summed up the most asked about areas regarding this great discovery for easy research and reading since alot of members were complaining of how lengthy it was. If you or anyone feels I should add to the INDEX on information that is of importance than leave a post and I'll make the neccessary additions.

Thanks.

Did the rag soak method on the CMV520D with brita filtered tap water. I used three layers of paper towels, a generous amount of water, and covered the panel up in plastic wrap. It took roughly 14 hours. I checked once at 7 hours, started peeling the AG off at 13 hours, let some portions soak for another hour, and topped it all off at the 14 hour mark. I'm letting my LCD air out for 4 hours so I won't know the results for a while. It was an easy process though. I had the most trouble with the portions of the LCD with the most overlap of paper towel, I would suggest only two layers in all locations.

Thanks for the indexed page SIMUL8R, would have been a really difficult process without it!

Most welcome, and don't forget to thank Elken and Mark especially, without their initial efforts working on this from the start we wouldn't be enjoying our DIY pj's as much as we are now. Please don't forget to post your review of your projected results, we always like to hear the comparisons before and after A/G removal.

Ive read quite a bit of this thread but I havent seen it... so...

Has anyone tried just waxing their AG?

Maybe polishing or using a rubbing compound... then applying a few coats of wax?

So a process might be... 1) Use 1300 grit rubbing compound 2) Use PEEK polish. 3) Apply 2 coats of Turtlewax. 4) Buff to a high shine

I'd say give it a try. The point of polishing is to get the A/G's surface as flat as possible to a sheen and the rubbing compounds of Mothers seems to do a good job at this. I would warn you that the A/G is just a layer that is fused on top of a plastic film called TAC and once you penetrated A/G then your now rubbing on TAC instead. Mothers Mag Polish is used on plastic as well. What 1300 grit rubbing compound will do to TAC is unknown if and after you penetrated A/G. Remember we experimented on pieces of A/G polarizer in all this after we had ripped it off experimental panels.

Luca just go for it,,, water soak works very well,, just have patience

I have done seven panels now,,,

comes up like gkadwrap off a glass sheet..

if it is stubborn, even after soaking,, just wet the part that is already lifted from polar bear,, it just sublimes under stubborn tac, and whips off as easy as pie

I make it sound easy,, but due care is needed too...

read more on removal first tho form lots of others here too...

errors and omissions excepted

Ive done a rag soak removal on one panel already... It came off easy enough... but after a while I noticed 45 degree angle streaks in the image which is more than likely a problem with the polarizer caused by the water.... Luckily that panel was already damaged so Im not too upset.

This time around Id rather try a non removal method first... If I can get close to the image quality of a removed ag without removing it... Ill be happy.

so what is the consensus on anti-reflective type screens such as sony xbrite, asus color shine, etc? These screens have a magnesium fluoride layer over the polarizer instead of the usual rough anti-glare. I have been able to find little use of such screens in this forum. I'm wondering what effects the mg fl will have on transparency (apparently is lets practically all wavelengths through though), and also, what effect will this have on the picture when you take into account that the anti-reflective surface will be facing the bulb. I have to assume the effects will be negligible. considering that magnesium fluoride has a refractive index close to that of air, I imagine it will allow little reflection and little refraction of light entering the LCD. The question is though, will it reflect and refract more light than an LCD with No anti-glare or anti-reflectant film? Obviously it will cause less light to be reflected back away from the entire screen, but this doesn't account for light that passes through the magnesium fluoride, reflects off the LCD/polarizer, and gets lost forever.

Mark may be the best person to answer this........dang, where is that guy?

Hey,,,, SIM think of my original discovery back last year,,,,,, maybe same principle

normal sticky tape over A/G,, and how that made image brighter,,

result was A/G was still there,,, but we had brighter clearer image

I hope you realise,,,,, THIS IS ALL YOUR FAULT,,,,,,

heheheh

http://www.phy.davidson.edu/StuHome/jimn/Java/Coatings.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_coating
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-reflective_coating

I think the coating will help transmit light through the LCD and reduce the total reflected light compared to a bare glass LCD (if we neglect the effects of a polarizer which could be a bad idea ).

hehehe, I knew you couldn't resist jumping on this either.

EVERYONE, MEET ELKEN!! You can all thank him and Mark for their stupendous work on antiglare removal.

I should know more about this crap.. I studied optics and electromagnetics in college, but haven't thought about it since

hmmmm electromagnetics,, with all that talk of magnets,, hehehhe

'electromagnetic coil' 'lamp' constrict arc stream,,, nahhhhh stupid idea



OH MY,,,

I have just joined the continuim,,, I AM """Q"""

hey, you know what never occurred to me? maybe the anti-reflective coating is on a seperate piece of glass that will be removeable when you strip the lcd? does it say anywhere that they apply it directly to the polarizer?

well these two links imply the magnesium fluoride is applied directly to the polarizer, in fact in the first link states "The polarizer of an anti-reflective LCD screen [has] a smooth chemically-treated surface." We'll find out for sure in a little while as I placed the order for the Asus yesterday

http://www.screentekinc.com/asus-colorshin...d-screens.shtml
http://www.screentekinc.com/pixelbright-lcds.shtml

that sounds promising, when you get the lcd and start to stripping it, make sure you either take a picture or write down the manufacturer and model number that will be on the backlight, this is the actual LCD itself(as opposed to the brand/model of the LCD monitor as a whole) Asus buys their lcds rather than manufacturing their own(confirmed in your links)