Yes, I am very frustrated.

I did manage to get all of the polarizer off, albeit in many pieces. There's still some glue left behind and smudges and quite possibly scratches all over the substrate.

I have my doubts about my panel, but I'll reserve them until I try firing it up again. Until then, I need to clean up the substrate to survey the damage.

So for getting rid of the glue and other junk on the substrate, what should I use? I don't think that any of the percieved scratches are deep, but I'm wondering if I should try to use something that's not too risky.

Goo gone?

Wait, I must have misunderstood what your asking earlier.....Your just wanting to totally remove the entire film.....then I wouldn't use stripper for this.

Let me get you my link to remove the entire film. I know you may have issues since you might not have much corners to pry the film up but perhaps you can start at the sides. Just take your time on this.
sim

Ok, now I'm really lost in this....hehehe
vroom: I'd use the goo gone, and if you can get some denatured alcohol. I'd try a corner first.
sim

Just trying to clean up after the polar removal. Goo gone and denatured alcohol, coming up.

Where is SonicWonder2000 when you need him ? It is possible that your substrate to polarizer laminate glue is water soluble. If you lay a rag on it for an hour or so it may loosen up. Mikau's was not, however.

Goo-gone could do the trick. But maybe not. Truth is, we really don't have one sure fire product to take care of the leftover adhesive. Elken used Windex with success. No matter what you use, I there is going to probably be a great deal of elbow grease involved. It can be slow going. Basically if the product allows you to cleanly bring up the adhesive at any speed at all, then it's probably the one to use.

I'm betting those scratches are as you say: perceived. But non existent. Make sure that rear polarizer is safe from scratches through all of this.

edit: a reminder that displays will not show much of an image without a polarizer.

Mark.

Ok, after using a bit of Goo Gone on the substrate, I've discovered something interesting.

There's a perfect circle barely visible on one side. You can only see part of it here, but I can make out the entire circle.

What could this be?

Alien Anti-glare circles?

Maybe they ran out of crop fields.

Could that be the boundary of, say, an area water penetrated to when you tried ragging?

PS WD40, Windex, and a straight razor got the front of my panel looking nice.

Is it etched into the glass? I mean does it have any texture? Or is it a discoloration of that area? Do you think it will show up on projection? Do you think it could be washed off?

My rough guess is it has something to do with how they held the glass at some stage of production.

Mark.

Has anyone who successfully removed the a/g had a chance to keystone the lcd to determine what the acceptable lcd keystone is for a pnael without the a/g? I would be very interested in determining if keystoning is an option with one of these panels.

IT LIVES!!!!!!

Got it plugged in and used a flashlight and a piece of polar to go over the entire panel comparing the colors. It looks like that circle doesn't have an effect on anything (knock on wood) and that everything is A-OK with my panel.

I can't tell you guys how much of a relief this is. To be honest, I really thought the LCD would have something wrong with it after all I put it through.

Just a testament for how unbelievably durable these 512Ns are!

Now I just have to order some polar...

I found this online.

Hi Folks,

My 4yo autistic son decided yesterday to attack my 19" HP LCD screen with a screwdriver ! :mad:

I managed to repair my screen last night, but I have to wonder if it was truly worth it. The screen is fully functional now with no scratches, but there are some unwanted side effects from such a repair.

I started by using a felt bob with cerium oxide powder used for polishing optical glass with a high speed electric drill. I thought it was working but I soon discovered I was removing the anti-glare coating and where I had applied too much pressure had left other marks in the plastic

I then proceeded to clip off the framing and got to work with heavy cut car polish. That was a major mistake... dont use cut and polish compound... it doesnt cut the plastic properly and is hard to remove.

After that mistake, I found a process that worked:

I started with 1000 grit wet and dry sandpaper and proceeded to work back the whole screen removing the anti-glare, the screwdriver scratches and the marks from the felt bob in the high speed drill.

After the surface was even, I cleaned it with Window cleaner (blue liquid with ammonia) and then cut back again with finer sandpaper... 2400 grit , then another clean with window cleaner and a soft cloth, then the whole process was repeated using 3600 , 6000 , 8000 and 12000 grit.

The end result is fully viewable and functional, but with no anti-glare coating. (You can buy a separate anti glare filter and clip it on).

It was very difficult to remove all the anti-glare coating around the screen edges, especially in the corners so the resultant repaired screen looks as if there are some very small smudge marks around the edges.

I'd suggest if scratches are really minor, it is better to live with them as once you take off the anti-glare coating, you are committed to cutting back the whole screen, not just the scratch.

Prevention is certainly better than cure.

I just so happened to have the ultra fine grit sandpaper as one of my hobbies is violinmaking. The ultra fine grits are used for cutting and polishing varnish. I suspect most fine woodworking supply shops would stock it.

Good luck and lots of patience if you have to go through this ordeal as I did.


Here is the link: http://www.mybroadband.co.za/vb/archive/in...hp/t-27748.html

Whew! I've been pulling for you.

Good to hear that Micro-Mesh may actually do the trick. Wether the surface was left extremely smooth and shiny will be hard to establish in conversation.

Mark.

Hi Guys,

I just stripped a Samsung 510N and now thinking about the AG removal. I'm thinking of just leaving the wet rag on it overnight and see what happens in the morning. Any danger of it being too long? Will I have a completely desolved pool of samsung goo in the morning?

Just make sure that you do not try to force the anti-glare off. If it does not start up within the black masked area and peel up super easy at that point: Bail out. No harm done. But be sure to read the instructions here:

http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s...indpost&p=99632

Mark.

Thanks, I've read all that.

After 12 hours the damn thing won't come off I can start of peel a corner off, but I *think* it's polarizer. I've only pulled off about 3mm (not in the display area, so no harm), and put a white peice of paper underneith, it makes the paper look dark. I don't think I can separate the AG from polar.

Leaving it on, or complete polar replacement might be my only options.

P.S My 510N has a manufacture date of Feb. 2005.

ppmz: how long has your panel been in front of your lamp since you built it, roughly how many hours usage?
sim

Zero hours! It's a fresh one. Although bought second-hand and about 6 months old (not used in projection).

The polar simply sticks half to the panel and half to the AG, so it ends up disintegrating when the AG is pulled up. This is after almost 24 hours under water! I thought I was pretty careful, but maybe the water got in between the AG and polar around the edges.

So what's the current consensus, an LCD with AG/Polar removed and replaced by 3dlens/polarization.com is still an improvement over a vanilla panel? I'm not sure what to do at this stage...

P.S Another polarizer here, very cheap, but too small for 15":
http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/m1581.html

That is definitely polarizer, ppmz. I went through that same stage.

Yes, replacing the polarizer with one that doesn't have AG is an improvement. That's what I'm about to do as soon as I order one. Couldn't get my AG off of my Samsung, either.

Polish or Stripper. If the polarizer is still okay (it should be) the idea is to move to stripper. If that fails, then you pull the polarizer off and replace. Until we can establish a bonding method, polarizer replacement is thought to be a slight brightness compromise over targeted anti-glare removal. It does give you a lot of options, though. Especially if the replacement polarizer is of a higher efficiency than the stock it replaces.

edit: but of course it is up to you wether you try stripper, polish, or full replacement at this point.

Mark.

I am trying the water rag method on my 2nd monitor now....a CMV 522A.

I left the soaked paper towels on for 4 1/2 hours. I just got done peeling 95% of the antiglare up, which didn't come up easily.

There is a small circle in the middle that refused to come up with the rest, and there is no "edge" to get a hold of like in the corner.

I need to let that little circle soak longer, but I am afraid I will start to disolve the bare polarizer around the circle. There is no way I can mask off the rest of the panel and just soak the circle.

Help! What do I do?

Cut the paper towels to the size of the circle. You'll likely need something to peel it up with. If you use a blade, try to use one with a flat side and be careful not to scratch anything.

Use the (actual) tape pull-up method. There is no way you will get a away with a blade. maybe a flat plastic scraper, but not a blade.

I would just get the towels as close to the edge as possible. If chances are, the water has already started to work on that glue, so it will spread to the edges much easier.

Your polarizer should not dissolve if you use a rag to hold it back. But anywhere that water pools you may get some oil spill effects.

Be sure to reinforce this time with tape so you don't have to do it again.

Mark.

Mark,
I preformed a A/G removal on my samsung ltn 1565. quick test shows it lives. however the lcd is left with an oily rainbow look from the removal. seems like ever time I stopped or the ag broke it left these marks anyway to remove them?
does not seem as though they will show in the projection but I would rather remove them if I can.

The samsung was a hard removal. done with the rag method for 12 hours. the ag started to lift off easy then started to break apart. this lcd had been infront of the lamp for about 2 years now. I had tried a test panel first that came out of an old laptop with the rag method. I let it soak for 12 hours and it peeled right off and left nothing behind. so I was pretty suprised how hard this one came off. the ag of the samsung was also about twice as thick.

Unfortunately, I don't know how to get rid of those. But others have found they do not project.

I think the key is to reinforce the border of the anti-glare with some good sticky tape once the peel up is started. I have found if the panel is the least bit cooperative (water compatible), it keeps things together.

I believe the oil spills are because the water was not held back by the rag and was allowed to pool in those areas. I don't think time is of the essence in removing them. So if the surface is otherwise okay, best not to mess with it.

Mark.

Wanna bet?

Cheers,
Arkay.

Yep polish is for me. I've been trying to polish it with "Polyglaze: Cut and Polish" but after 1 hour it barely made a difference (slightly smoother only). Any Australians here want to suggest a good polish we can buy here?

I also have some "Metal Polish" (contains liquid hydrocarbons), sounds a little dangerous doesn't it?

rpearsey, I'm in Houston too. What part are you from??

The little circle of antiglare didn't respond to 2 more hours of water soaking. I could not get an edge up for the life of me. I decided to remove the circle with stripper. After 2 30 min applications, the polarizer is cracking.

THE NIGHTMARE CONTINUES!!!!!!!!!!!! :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

Now I get to take off the polarizer and risk breaking the panel. Then order a polarizer and wait.

I had no idea this projector project would turn into a 7 month ongoing hell. I want to be done with it...when will it ever end!?!? This is so frustrating its stupid!

Sounds like a bugger. But let me just say one thing.

The first time you ragged you waited 4.5 hours and tried to force the anti-glare off without reinforcing the edges with tape.

Then you gave the remaining island section another 2 hours bringing it to a 6.5 hour soak time.

If it were me, I would have given it 12 hours soak the first time before ever incorporating force. And at that point, I would figure wether the consequences of force are for me. It's not like I'm just bringing this up in retrospect of your experience. It's what I have been warning all along.

Given your level of frustrating it probably isn't fair of me to dog on your methods. But obviously we will get this straitened out. It's just so far things just haven't been right.

Pulling that polarizer up doesn't have to be dangerous. Just take your time, and watch the pressure and angles.

Are you sure the lines will project?

Mark.

Thanks for the encouragement. Your'e right...I should have soaked the panel longer. I read experiences on ragging CMV's and thought 4 1/2 hours would be more than enough. I forgot to work in my luck factor.

For those of you that have ordered from polarization.com, does the polarizer come rolled up? Is it the same thickness as a LCD polarizer?

I was planning on just cutting the polarizer the same dimensions as the fresnel, then sliding it in front of the rear fresnel using the same slot. If the polarizer comes rolled though, it will be difficult to get it to stay flat without sandwiching it between the fresnel and something.

My polarizer from 3dlens was rolled, but it doesn't really seem to hold it's shape like paper or plastic would. after a few minutes of being flat, it was basically a flat sheet and easy to work with.

One reminder: be sure to check whether the polarizers are 45 or 90 degree before cutting it up. The polars on my Benq are 45 degree and I would have really been in a mess if I had cut my polarizer piece to fit my panel before checking. I cut a small piece off and verified the orientation prior to cutting my big piece.

Here is a patent describing the specific materials used for the anti-glare and hard coat:

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6869672.html

And here is a new acronym: PET.

PET (Polyethylene Terephthalate) is very often used as the hard coat. PET is the same material used to create Pop bottles. As Elken has speculated, PET is sold under the name Mylar when in film form. PET is water permeable, even though it is used for pop bottles. Therefore, after the stuff reaches a certain thickness, it must be less water permeable. Maybe the panels that are not taking to water have a thicker hard coat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyethylene_terephthalate

Mark.

Here’s a bit of info that I meant to post but never got around to it. Most strippers that are meant to be washed off with water as apposed to scrape off have a higher concentration of methylene chloride. I think Jasco is this type of stripper.

DJ

Really, interesting info. Think I just found my supreme stripper, thanks Sonic. Oh and you too DAZZ
sim

Still, I'm not sure about using water to wipe the goo off after the waiting period. Might have to test and see.
sim

This may not be the case with all of them though. I’ll try to find the URL again.

DJ

edit: This is not the URL that I originally read but it says that strippers with low concentrations are usually flammable. I’ll keep looking though.
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/423.html

edit 2:

http://www.oldhousejournal.com/magazine/20...ers/index.shtml

This could be the reason why some have found stripper un-successful.

Just googled PVA rating for NMP, it's not recommended to be used with. Still researching, again thanks DAZZ.
sim

The 'burbs - out Sugar Land way.

Hey, guys. Back from thanksgiving vacation, and my polarizer arrived while I was gone!

Anyways, I decided to go with the adhesive polarizer, and just give it a shot, if it doesn't work, the non adhesive one is cheap.

But as it turns out, the adhesive polarizer from polarization.com comes in fixed sizes, and the smallest size big enough for one lcd, is big enough for two! So I'm going to try adhearing one polarizer and if it doesn't work I've got the other. The adhesive is covered with a clear sheet, so I could use it without peeling off the adhesive cover. (tried a small piece and it works) the only annoyance is the protective layer has lines and scratch marks on it, so if I don't remove it, they remain. But according to polarization.com, if your applying the polarizer to just a sheet of glass, "air bubbles can be eliminated by applying head and pressure, but this cannot be done on an assembled lcd" so if the first piece doesn't work, I can just apply it to a piece of glass.

ATTENTION! I still have yet to determine whether or not I'll be able to adhear the polar to the lcd with no bubbles, but I tried applying a bit of soapy water in attempt to squeegy out the bubbles. Well it didn't work so well so I took the test piece polarizer off the glass, and when it dried, the adhesive was GONE! I've been letting it dry for about half an hour now and the stickyness has not yet returned. I'll give it a while longer to be absolutely certain but I'm pretty confident by now. It would seem the adhesive on the back of the polar disolves in water in no time at all!

According to polarization.com the adhesive polarizer is of lcd grade, whereas the normal non adhesive polarizer is just a general purpose polarizer. But everyone went with the low quality one because applying the adhesive layer without air bubbles would probably be impossible. But now, I believe we can order the high quality adhesive type and clean the adhesive off with soap and water. And btw this doesn't mean soaking it for 12 hours like the ragging method, mine must have been wet for no more then a minute with soapy water and its gone. I didn't even wipe it!

Also as I mentioned, the smallest adhesive polar is big enough for two lcd's, so two forum members could split the cost if they both needed one.

Only if there was enough room for 45/90/0 degree polarizers on the same sheet.

Sounds good. The adhesive on my test panel's polarizer was water soluble as well. This was what I was talking about before.

The adhesive film they sell is not as high quality as the non-adhesive by specs on the site though. I know he said that he would be getting in some higher quality adhesive polarizers. Are these them?

Mark.

So the 3dlens.com adhesive type is the potentially better polarizer if the adhesive was able to be removed easily?

Thanks for the work, Mikau.

No. The polarization.com adhesive polarizer is potentially better than the polarization.com non-adhesive polarizer. But the polarizer that he is referring to is not listed on the site. I believe the adhesive model that is listed is not as good as the non-adhesive variety even without adhesive.

The 3dlens.com adhesive polarizer is not good even if you could remove the adhesive. The non-adhesive 3dlen.com model is okay. But I don't think it is as good as the non-adhesive polarization.com model.

Mark.

Thanks for enlightening me.

Hey, would you look at that. My user title now reflects my state of being.

I'm really interested to see how your LCD turns out, once you get it projecting. I'm pretty much in the same boat where my 510N's A/G won't budge or the polar falls to pieces. What would you do with your LCD if you could turn back time? You'll probably get better results after all this trouble than a factory panel anyway.

When we are talking about one polarizer being higher quality than the other, are we talking about light loss or color quality?

I have to revise my statement about the water soluble adhesive. I don't get it. I tried it on a small piece originally and by accident the adhesive dissapeared. But I tried it on a large sheet and it didn't work! I have no idea why. Maybe because the first piece was originally adheared but when I removed it the adhesive stayed on. Dunno.

Anyways, now I've just got to figure out a way to get the adhesive off, I might try very short exposure to stripper. Spread it on, and take it off right away. If it damages the polarizer then I've still got one left. But if this doesn't work I'll probably just have to go with the non adhesive polar.

Mark are you saying the adhesive polar is actually lower quality then the non adhesive? The impression I got from their email was that the adhesive polar was of lcd quality and the non adhesive wasn't. And that they were trying to get a non adhesive lcd quality polarizer in stock.

And heres some discouraging news I just emailed Chad N. about:

I tried sliding a piece behind my lcd to see how it worked. Hmmm... colors seem better but I do believe the polarization.com polarizer is less transmissive then the lcd's original polarizer with tape on it. I held the two up to a light and the original polarizer just gave it a slight tint, while the polarization.com polarizer seemed more like sunglasses. Thats not too good.

I could be wrong, but the piece I threw up behind the lcd and fired it up was only mildly impressive. Colors definitly looked better, but I can't help but feel it looks slightly darker. Of course, this was just a sloppy test so I'm not going to make any official statements. 3d lens' polarizers may be better. But I really think one should buy an lcd that has been tested with the ragging method when first choosing an lcd.

Anyways, I'll let you know how it turns out.

Nooooooo......