May I make a suggestion?

This thread is big, very big. In a month its become one of the longest threads on the website, and shows no signs of slowing down. We already have over a thousand replies, if it does not slow down REAL soon it will be THE longest thread on the website. Everytime I get on here theres a new page! Its impossible to update yourself fully as you've missed a whole lot.

I think this is a little too big. We now have an entire forum for this topic, why don't we take advantage of this?

Perhaps we could organize this conversation and make some new threads with differant categories such as:

"antiglare removal process" thread for discussing removal of the antiglare and any chemicles or tools helpfull for doing it.

"polarizers: where to get" a list of workable polarizers and where to order them.

"polarizers, where to place" disscusion of where to put your polarizer,

"antiglare removal alternatives" disscussion about other methods of negating the antiglare without actually removing it. (tape, polish, etc.)

perhaps a project status: thread, to give a basic explanation of where we are currenty, what needs work and what we're waiting for if anything. (similar to the news forum where brain makes updates on the status of the pro lens)

And finally, a general description of this modification for newbies would be nice, which can be edited as the project progesses. This would explain what the antiglare is, and why we want to remove it, and why we need to replace the polarizers. This can be edited and modified as the project progresses.

I just think we've got way too much in one spot here.

ok Elken, i got a gleam of the Kogi. hard to tell if i penetrated the antiglare cause its source of light (backlight). It's not a mirrored finish but I can definately see my reflection as compared to the other half. however, no time to strip kogi to tell.

i think with enough effort and the proper polishing gel we may be able to get more light thru it, i figure it would be a quick and easy fix but the ultimate would be the total removal/acetone (or ammonia) wash or replace w/polar.
sim

One of the main reasons I'm suggesting this is:

I have no idea what the current state of the project is, what we are working on, what we are waiting for.

I still don't think I understand exactly what we are doing in the first place.

I don't know if we have found a workable polarizer other then the ones elken peeled off his laptop, which were made for lcds.

I don't know where we can and can't place the polarizers. I don't know if we are using one polarizer or two. I don't know what an analyzer is.

I've been reading this thread everyday and still I don't know the answers to all these questions!

Everyday dozens of new posts are scattered accross all these categories and for me, checking several times a day I have absolutely no idea where we are and whats going on. If we separate into differant threads, especially if we create a "current status" thread, that will explain the resolved issues and what needs to be resolved. Then forum members will not be wasting time reinventing the wheel and can assist in coming up solutions to resolve the current issues.

Its better this way!

Check out My Tests that I did the other night using this polish. I'm planning an all-out removal so I'm not persuing the 'material addition' or 'material polishing' route anymore. If the A/G removal doesn't work out, then it's new polarbear time.

ok, as you requested Elken...and who was the other,,oh mikelish. here are shots of the film 'underneath the triplet, a-glare facing up' first one is w/a-glare, the other is w/out'. mind you i'm using the overhead projector with the mirror adjustment...puni5her style....your right it's milky w/glare and clear w/out.

sim

I must be on everyone's ignore list...

ZING

Calm down mikau, we are still experimenting.

Mikau,, dont worry you are noticed,,, everyone is running fast

So I've noticed. Getting a simple progress report has been like trying to ask a stampeding hoard what they're running from.

Ok shortly I will have my new lens addition,, behind the triplet

an adjustable 'polar beary'

fully mounted too

geez better stay out of range if bears are doing it...

my mind is rushing, trying to get a grip, played nemo a little. although up close like and a small window the colors were dang bright. your description of plasma hit me like a freight train. lots of contrast....

So with a clean polarizer in front of triplet you get a watchable image?


Hmmm, more cleaning

behind triplet

(gets up off the ground)

See? Nobody even saw this I just got run over again. HEY COMEBACK! WHAT ARE YOU RUNNING FROM?

Does it make a difference in front of or behind?

no, no difference, just letting you know what i'm seeing and doing.

this is exhausting...Mark, Elken....whats on the adjenda now..
sim

(edit) oh, and btw...i don't have a collector between the panel and the triplet.

maybe I should set my hair on fire...

in front behind none at all...


but as having backto front you get negative,,


there is a side to the top and bottom,,, dont ask my why,, but test in dark room,,,,, there is ONLY one way for it....

there is a up and down orientation as well as back or front

Honestly dude, go test yourself if you want clear results.

Sorry for being pesky I was just trying to make some people laugh with the stampeding stuff.

By all means I'd like to help! I want to test it myself. But I need to know where we stand. Otherwise I could make a mistake someone already made or find a solution that was already found.

See how long you can stare at a 400W MH

kidding bud

ozstang65: I tried running a search for your original post today, but I couldn't find it. From what I can tell you had much better increases from the center of your screen (17% at the center VS 1 measly lumen at the edges) and that tape worked better than polish. Did you manage to get the anti-glare completely mirror smooth with that polish? If not, how smooth did you get it and with how much work? Do you feel you could get it smoother/shinier? Shiny smooth is of the essence. Great work by the way .

Mikau: I think it's best to let this thing go crazy for a while. It'll all be summarized in the end.

That said, here are some very basic answers to your questions.

The anti-glare coating on our LCD's causes undesirable diffraction and total internal reflection. Therefore, should the anti-glare be defeated somehow, the undesirable effects will go away.

We are working on 3 ways to defeat the anti-glare:

1. Fill it in.

We have tried a lot of things but nothing encapsulates the anti-glare like tape.

2. Buff it down.

We have tried a lot of things but nothing buffs like Mother's car polish.

3. Separate it from the analyzer.

We have tried a lot of things but it seems Elken's aeration followed by acetone wash is the best. We think an ammonia soak might also do the trick.

4. Separate the analyzer/anti-glare laminate from the panel and replace with just an analyzer.

Gotta find replacements.

We are also working to quantify the changes with each method.
Ideally exactly where you got it from but anywhere else later in the light path will work.2The last polarizer that light makes incidence with.

Mark.

Pretty long if I wanted too. Btw I ordered a coil ballast just to be safe. I've had it with eballasts.

But really I want to help with the experimenting here, its just this thread has been like trying to read a book and skipping every other page, you really don't know whats happened in your absense and whats happening now. I'd like to help but it would be a waste of time if I don't know where we stand and what we're trying to resolve.

Now thats what I'm talking about! Thank you!

What exactly is buffing? You mean like sanding the roughsurface surface smooth?

Two polarizers? Why do we need two if we only peeled off one? Or does the antiglare make up two polarizers?

Certainly this thread is difficult to follow Mikau, however I wouldn't want to cut up something so historic to the projector community. It could still be a historic blunder, but historic none the less.

Your idea of refining this information into a series of subjects is what will eventually be done as we are aware of this issue and Elken2004 has already started such a thread.

The fact that this thread moving so fast is one of the reasons that it has been so productive. We have a mob stream of conscience going that is producing as a group more than any of us would be able to accomplish alone. I've never seen anything like it. Slowing it down would just hinder the process as many of us still have the totality of this thread fresh in our minds and there is less redundancy to clog up the process (unlike the reflector thread).

Many have dedicated much too much time here to accomplish the goal and our thanks go out to them.

I think that another reason the thread is moving so quickly is that those involved would like to come up with good solutions asap so that the results can go into recommendations threads as soon as clear conclusions are drawn, thus preempting false starts and wrong turns by those who haven't been willing or able to digest the entire thread.

"I have no idea what the current state of the project is, what we are working on, what we are waiting for.
I still don't think I understand exactly what we are doing in the first place."-Mikau

Currently there is an attempt to weigh the options; whether it is best to alter the surface of the antiglare or to remove it completely. There is not much doubt that complete removal/repolarization will produce the best transmission but It is not definite that the benefit is great enough over just changing the surface of the antiglare is worth it... given the unknowns still in complete removal and the lumen benefit versus the added risk.

"I don't know if we have found a workable polarizer other then the ones elken peeled off his laptop, which were made for lcds."-Mikau

There is no doubt that we can source these polarizers, but no one has received or posted results with a new pristine polarizer.

"I don't know where we can and can't place the polarizers. I don't know if we are using one polarizer or two. I don't know what an analyzer is."-Mikau

An analyzer is just the second polarizer in the system... it is the function of the second polarizer.(regardless of which way the light is passing through the panel)

I am a little unclear about the polarizer placement too... but as far as I can tell... as long as there is not a fresnel between the analyzer and the triplet, you will get the best picture. (the analyzer still has to be on the other side of the panel from the first polarizer and you always must have two polarizers in the system)

I hope that is correct and get's you up to speed...

Otherwise; if you can't keep up, stand back and wait for the results.

[edit] Holy Cr*p! I write my little letter to Mikau and an entire new page appears!

Elken, am I to understand that you get a brighter image if the polar is up to the triplet as compared between panel and lens. I'm not able to try that yet cause my original pj panel still has it's a-glare on. I recalled you saying that you liked it better there but there were some issues.
sim

Thans, deathray, I really appreciate your writing up a long explanation speficically for me, my main gripe is just getting a simple progress update seems impossible without reading the twelve new pages of threads that were posted since my last visit.

I am not suggesting slowing this thread down, only organizing it so we know where to find what.

So no one has actually tried ordering a new polarizer huh? So how do we know they will work? How do we know they are not differant?

Well done DRay, greatly appreciate it. Mikau, no offense but either work w/us or step aside your posts are in the way.
sim

I want to help! Where can I order new polarizers? No ones done that yet.

sigh....getting another beer.

Oops. I meant where "should" I buy the polarizer from. You listed several companies already. Which company and which model would you reccomend?

Ok guys here is Mark 7

beta stage passed,, OK

DO NOT LOSE OR DAMAGE YOUR PEELED POLARIZERS<<<<<<<<

save a good part at least 6" x6" play with the balance as you wish<<<<<<<

until we prove a purchased alternative is proven....


here are pics

umm final test bars image was outta focus didn't notice,, heheheh too busy getting pics for you guys

having mount eveything properly the contrast and colours are absolutely stunning

later tonight two PJ's one std,, one enhanced side by side
Clive.....

You've got to read to figure that one out.mikelish has some in the mail.

Shhhhhh,
Mark.

Yeah I meant to ask which one to order, not where to order. This is what I meant by asking where we stand.

Anything else I could help with?

YES!!! GENIOUS ELKEN....I LIKES!!!!

looks like a crt monitor!

Hey... you're still using your light fusion screen, right elken? Any chance that you could throw a piece of blackout cloth next to it for comparison?

Your pics look incredible! I just want to see how much improvement we can expect from just anti-glare removal. Although I think after this is all done, a nice light fusion screen is my next project!

Thanks,
Jason

Mikau; persistance is a virtue...annoying...but still a virtue.

If you read back a day or two you will find that Mark attempted to present and weigh the current data from various sellers of polarizers. The conclusion was that the data is probably unreliable and incomplete, therefore no absolute recommendation can be reached from this information alone. I do not recommend that you purchase a polarizer at this time because it is too early to peel your panel. If you choose to do so, don't blame us if you kill your panel.

In reguards to the current experiment:

Once Elken2004 has dazzeled us with the side by side, we should be asssured that the hypothesis is proven. I would like to press Elken to attempt to come up with a system that we can keystone. If you could; give us your impressions/results regarding viewing angle sans the birefringement layer(if any were there to begin with)...for the benefit of those who would like to put the polarizer on/near the panel with split optics and a panel tilt (<7º) for optimum focus during keystoning.

Of course I deferr to those who need more data before examining these questions.

I was under the impression he was keystoning, his projecter does look angled up. unless he is doing it in software.

Possibly you are correct. Elken2004 can be a bit cryptic in his writings and somewhat difficult to follow.

[edit] ...and brilliant no doubt.

But we love him

Mikau; I’ve only been gone for a few hours and another 4 pages have manifested, you’ll just have to read every post to keep up.

Elken; That’s a good looking frame. Is it a PVC shower drain with the centre cut out?

Tried looking for an old 15” LCD today to experiment on. No luck grrr. The bug has bit.

DJ

You can't keystone with this set up?

I use lens shift. Would that be okay?

sorry guys for being cryptic,, just hard to do then do a detailed report

too many permutations to prove or not

I am sure that split optics will work too in this config,, another reset up this weekend or tonight or helppppppp

currently using DVD video essentials running many patterns to see how things really balance,, this is the professional side testing

Patience...It's coming.

several test pics coming shortly,, real test pics

Keystoning will work fine if the polarizer is placed back on the panel, or in it's own frame. It will also work fine on the keystone mechanism, just not perfect. This, of course, is because the analyzer will become both less tranmissive and less efficient as the angle of incidence increases. If you use standard panel orientation, then this is not an issue at all.

SIMUL8TOR: for those test grid pics, why did you create a new graphic and not just use the one I prepared? The problem is that I don't think you can create true RGB stripes in Paint. And you left out the black and white bars.

http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s...indpost&p=94592

The way this graphic is meant to work is to allow a direct side by side comparison between each primary. Black and white to see if the white and black levels change, and the color strips are to see if any primary experiences a larger or smaller gain than the others.

I would really appreciate seeing a 1/3 polish 1/3 tape 1/3 anti-glare comparison with this image. It should answer a few outstanding questions.

Mark.

k'sss

Noice . Show us a lelo shot :-*