For those who don't know this already;
Many sellers now implement certain software that looks for cookies to see where you have been shopping so that they can quote the highest price possible while still being cheaper than the competition.
Recently I have found big differences in prices quoted by the same website for electronics. Also Capitol One quoted me both 7.9% and 9.9% for the same card.
The moral of the story is to shop around at the price comparison sites before you check the sites that you like to buy from. You can test this by using two different browsers: Shop around with one and not with the other and compare the prices you get.
Full Version: How to get the best price on the internet
Very interesting. I've never heard of that scheme. Any idea which sites use it and which don't?
Also, here's a list of retailers I use often for home theater / computer supplies:
Tiger Direct - all around great site
NewEgg - my second favorite
Directron - great modding supplies
Monoprice - the best cable prices anywhere
Frozen CPU - a wide variety of custom cases & cooling solutions
Amazon - you'd be surprised what they carry, often at the lowest price. I just bought a replacement Powerbook G3 battery.
... and some price comparison sites:
Pricewatch
Yahoo Shopping
Shopping.com
... and don't forget Ebay!
Also, here's a list of retailers I use often for home theater / computer supplies:
Tiger Direct - all around great site
NewEgg - my second favorite
Directron - great modding supplies
Monoprice - the best cable prices anywhere
Frozen CPU - a wide variety of custom cases & cooling solutions
Amazon - you'd be surprised what they carry, often at the lowest price. I just bought a replacement Powerbook G3 battery.
... and some price comparison sites:
Pricewatch
Yahoo Shopping
Shopping.com
... and don't forget Ebay!
I believe Tigerdirect and Newegg use it. Both are good sites even so. I love directron.com and I don't think they use it.
The good thing is that we can use this to our advantage.
The good thing is that we can use this to our advantage.
QUOTE (DeathRay64 @ Jul 28 2005, 08:56 PM)
I believe Tigerdirect and Newegg use it. Both are good sites even so. I love directron.com and I don't think they use it.
The good thing is that we can use this to our advantage.
The good thing is that we can use this to our advantage.
I'm sorry, but this is simply not true. Newegg does not "track the sites you go to". Neither does tigerdirect.
Don't forget geeks.com They have some great deals on just about any electronic gadgets you want (a lot of them are factory refurbished, but still like new).
QUOTE (holsamoht @ Jul 29 2005, 12:33 PM)
QUOTE (DeathRay64 @ Jul 28 2005, 08:56 PM)
I believe Tigerdirect and Newegg use it. Both are good sites even so. I love directron.com and I don't think they use it.
The good thing is that we can use this to our advantage.
The good thing is that we can use this to our advantage.
I'm sorry, but this is simply not true. Newegg does not "track the sites you go to". Neither does tigerdirect.
Firstly, I said that I believe that they do; It was not diffinitive.
Secondly, how can you be so certain that they do not?(blind loyalty?)
It can be tested by using two different browsers as I said. If my memory serves me correctly, both of those sites gave me different prices depending on what browser I used. I would want to test this again before saying for certain. One thing that is certain and that is some sites do this.
That is so bizarre, I always trusted newegg (not so with Tigerdirect). I should surf a million stores, before I buy anything again!
I can't confirm this with either newegg or tigerdirect (and I'm not knocking them either because I don't think there is anything wrong with it). I've tried a few products and came up with the same price on both browsers. This doesn't mean that they don't do it but I haven't been able to prove it yet.
The information came from the Kim Komando computer radio show that some online merchants are doing this. This rang a bell with me that I had seen different prices from the same merchant when I was searching for digital camera accessories. I thought I found this at newegg and/or tigerdirect but again, I can't confirm it.
Perhaps you are correct holsamoht, but I would like to know how you know this with such certainty.
Just a quick trip to pricegrabber and couple of clicks on the lowest price may get you a better price when you go to the site you like to buy from, that's all I am saying here.
If anyone else has experienced this with an online merchant, please jump in here.
The information came from the Kim Komando computer radio show that some online merchants are doing this. This rang a bell with me that I had seen different prices from the same merchant when I was searching for digital camera accessories. I thought I found this at newegg and/or tigerdirect but again, I can't confirm it.
Perhaps you are correct holsamoht, but I would like to know how you know this with such certainty.
Just a quick trip to pricegrabber and couple of clicks on the lowest price may get you a better price when you go to the site you like to buy from, that's all I am saying here.
If anyone else has experienced this with an online merchant, please jump in here.
Actually, I did see this once with tigerdirect when I was ordering my LCD. One price I found had the rebate, and another didn't. I don't know if they did this on purpose, but I did see this happen.
Um.. why not just clear the browser cache?.. if the info is supposedly stored in cookies, and you're completely paranoid about it, remove the cookies.
It is my experience that people are overly afraid of cookies.
It is my experience that people are overly afraid of cookies.
QUOTE (XombieRx @ Aug 1 2005, 04:02 PM)
Um.. why not just clear the browser cache?.. if the info is supposedly stored in cookies, and you're completely paranoid about it, remove the cookies.
It is my experience that people are overly afraid of cookies.
It is my experience that people are overly afraid of cookies.
I think the idea is the other way around if you have visited competitors and they have lower prices then they will offer a competing price. If you haven't they won't drop the price. So I guess the idea is to visits as many sites as possible before making a purchase to get the lowest price.
I think that this is based more on the link that you are using to get the product. I have heard in the past about companies using different prices on their websites based on how you browsed there (through referals, search engines, etc.). I think that may have been what happened to me on tigerdirect, but I don't know, maybe it was just a flaw in their website that doesn't list some of the rebates. I don't think it is based on cookies, because the rebates are available when other people were to search the same site. Also, cookies are not standardized from website to website (it is not a huge conspiracy from all the websites to make you pay more - although i guess this could potentially be possible at some point in the future).
I wouldn't call it a conspiracy. It's not illegal (that I know of)... just very clever business. After all, they're technically giving you a lower price, right?
I always go through four or five sites before I buy anyway. It's so much quicker than going to a couple of stores, and sometimes you luck out and find one store that's waaaaay lower than the others.
I always go through four or five sites before I buy anyway. It's so much quicker than going to a couple of stores, and sometimes you luck out and find one store that's waaaaay lower than the others.
QUOTE (DeathRay64 @ Jul 29 2005, 11:36 PM)
I can't confirm this with either newegg or tigerdirect (and I'm not knocking them either because I don't think there is anything wrong with it). I've tried a few products and came up with the same price on both browsers. This doesn't mean that they don't do it but I haven't been able to prove it yet.
The information came from the Kim Komando computer radio show that some online merchants are doing this. This rang a bell with me that I had seen different prices from the same merchant when I was searching for digital camera accessories. I thought I found this at newegg and/or tigerdirect but again, I can't confirm it.
Perhaps you are correct holsamoht, but I would like to know how you know this with such certainty.
Just a quick trip to pricegrabber and couple of clicks on the lowest price may get you a better price when you go to the site you like to buy from, that's all I am saying here.
If anyone else has experienced this with an online merchant, please jump in here.
The information came from the Kim Komando computer radio show that some online merchants are doing this. This rang a bell with me that I had seen different prices from the same merchant when I was searching for digital camera accessories. I thought I found this at newegg and/or tigerdirect but again, I can't confirm it.
Perhaps you are correct holsamoht, but I would like to know how you know this with such certainty.
Just a quick trip to pricegrabber and couple of clicks on the lowest price may get you a better price when you go to the site you like to buy from, that's all I am saying here.
If anyone else has experienced this with an online merchant, please jump in here.
How do I know? I worked for Newegg for 6 months for starters and also I'm not an idiot. Besides that, it is illegal. Yes, there are loopholes that people can get through around the legality, but a large repudable company like newegg or tiger direct would never engage in something like that. There is too much at risk. Have you looked at how the sites are indexed? They can't hot change prices like you are saying and output different prices to different people. Not only is that a coding nightmare, but it is all in all pointless.
Example. If I simply posted a link to to you of a certain part at newegg. No matter what browser you are in or where you are, you will get the same price unless they change it, in which case everyone would see a different price. They don't "take into account your cookies". Do you have any idea how large of a database those sites would need in order to track something like that for every single customer? If you don't know how it works, don't give cock and bull explanations and conspiracy theorys about the evil corperations. Prices change online, rapidly, sometimes daily. This doesn't mean that the world is out to get you.
pricegrabbers and pricewatch can be misleading. For the same motherboards I was looking up this morning there were:
Retail
Retail w/ SLI
Retail Platinum
Refurbished
Refurbished w/ SLI
Refurbished Platinum
That is 6 different versions sold by the same vendor (newegg) on the same page, all of them come up on pricewatch under the same searches. It can be very misleading.
Retail
Retail w/ SLI
Retail Platinum
Refurbished
Refurbished w/ SLI
Refurbished Platinum
That is 6 different versions sold by the same vendor (newegg) on the same page, all of them come up on pricewatch under the same searches. It can be very misleading.
"I'm not an idiot."
Chill dude, I don't believe anyone said you were (or implied it) though I wouldn't blame him if he slams you back for the implication that he is an idiot. Besides, idiots don't typically know if they are or aren't an idiot (despite saying they aren't). I believe he merely asked for the source of your info since many people have and do make statements like yours without clear indication of experience or knowledge (he made his statement based on his experience and a reference).
"Besides that, it is illegal."
Where is it illegal? Is this in your state or can you reference the CFR? Mail order catalog companies do this quite often (offering different pricing for different customers) and they occassionally get called to task on it but every time I've seen such stories there was no indication it is illegal.
As for whether or not it is possible, I see no reason why it wouldn't be possible. If there is a way to identify the appropriate cookie information from your cache and pass that as a variable in a calculation field then generating a conditional price is child's play. While every site probably has their own cookie format, a simple search string for product # and the nearest amount value downstream from that product # will likely be accurate 90% of the time or more. Throw in a default pricing reference as the basis for the comparison check (the one and only pricing database needed) if a competing price isn't found or falls outside the acceptable limits and you're done, no problem. This becomes even easier if there is a "shopping assistant" installed (aka targeted marketing software, aka adware). In a way, this is no different than a retailer making a "low price guarantee or we'll refund some % of the difference"- it would just be the online automagic version.
"If you don't know how it works, don't give cock and bull explanations and conspiracy theorys about the evil corperations."
Or, if you don't know how it doesn't work...but I digress. Again, he never called it a conspiracy and never indicated they were evil for doing it (if true). If it was just a matter of confusion about a particular product version (NIB vs RFB for example) so be it. But I still see no reason why it can't be done if it isn't already and with new capabilities/technologies for web sites being unleashed on us with or without our knowledge or consent we should all stay as aware as possible of developments, even the potential development of capabilities such as this. If for no other reason than to have the information we need to make a good decision. I can honestly say that knowing about even the potential for this type of thing to occur makes me a better consumer. I can speak from experience in saying that there is a lot of confusing marketing and underhanded practices in net sales (if you've ever tried to buy a digital camera online you've likely run into the USA vs international version issue) so I think this is good information to have, true or not, if it helps keep me vigilant...not that I think the capability described by Deathray is something that needs or is deserving of action necessarily but it does make me wonder if it would be possible to manipulate pricing the other way if an unsavory vendor were so inclined...Whether or not it is happening is somewhat irrelevant if anyone is like me in wanting to be alerted to the possibilities since it is difficult to protect against or take advantage of something of which you're not aware (I believe hackers, con artists, marketers and terrorist make it a point to take advantage of such lack of awareness/knowledge/insight).
So, compare before you buy...Brilliant!
[edit] PS... "This doesn't mean that the world is out to get you." - Actually, the world is out to get us, well, technically the world is out to get our money...
Chill dude, I don't believe anyone said you were (or implied it) though I wouldn't blame him if he slams you back for the implication that he is an idiot. Besides, idiots don't typically know if they are or aren't an idiot (despite saying they aren't). I believe he merely asked for the source of your info since many people have and do make statements like yours without clear indication of experience or knowledge (he made his statement based on his experience and a reference).
"Besides that, it is illegal."
Where is it illegal? Is this in your state or can you reference the CFR? Mail order catalog companies do this quite often (offering different pricing for different customers) and they occassionally get called to task on it but every time I've seen such stories there was no indication it is illegal.
As for whether or not it is possible, I see no reason why it wouldn't be possible. If there is a way to identify the appropriate cookie information from your cache and pass that as a variable in a calculation field then generating a conditional price is child's play. While every site probably has their own cookie format, a simple search string for product # and the nearest amount value downstream from that product # will likely be accurate 90% of the time or more. Throw in a default pricing reference as the basis for the comparison check (the one and only pricing database needed) if a competing price isn't found or falls outside the acceptable limits and you're done, no problem. This becomes even easier if there is a "shopping assistant" installed (aka targeted marketing software, aka adware). In a way, this is no different than a retailer making a "low price guarantee or we'll refund some % of the difference"- it would just be the online automagic version.
"If you don't know how it works, don't give cock and bull explanations and conspiracy theorys about the evil corperations."
Or, if you don't know how it doesn't work...but I digress. Again, he never called it a conspiracy and never indicated they were evil for doing it (if true). If it was just a matter of confusion about a particular product version (NIB vs RFB for example) so be it. But I still see no reason why it can't be done if it isn't already and with new capabilities/technologies for web sites being unleashed on us with or without our knowledge or consent we should all stay as aware as possible of developments, even the potential development of capabilities such as this. If for no other reason than to have the information we need to make a good decision. I can honestly say that knowing about even the potential for this type of thing to occur makes me a better consumer. I can speak from experience in saying that there is a lot of confusing marketing and underhanded practices in net sales (if you've ever tried to buy a digital camera online you've likely run into the USA vs international version issue) so I think this is good information to have, true or not, if it helps keep me vigilant...not that I think the capability described by Deathray is something that needs or is deserving of action necessarily but it does make me wonder if it would be possible to manipulate pricing the other way if an unsavory vendor were so inclined...Whether or not it is happening is somewhat irrelevant if anyone is like me in wanting to be alerted to the possibilities since it is difficult to protect against or take advantage of something of which you're not aware (I believe hackers, con artists, marketers and terrorist make it a point to take advantage of such lack of awareness/knowledge/insight).
So, compare before you buy...Brilliant!
[edit] PS... "This doesn't mean that the world is out to get you." - Actually, the world is out to get us, well, technically the world is out to get our money...
Thanks chrisbballas you said it well enough that further comment from me to holsamoht is unecessary.
Let's have a good time with our projectors and shop wisely.
Perhaps more information on this subject eventually will come to light and we can get the real scoop on who might be doing this.
Let's have a good time with our projectors and shop wisely.
Perhaps more information on this subject eventually will come to light and we can get the real scoop on who might be doing this.
Bless you Deathray...
As far as I could see, there were accusations that certain companies manipulated their pricing in order to mislead buyers to get their business. And then people claiming that companies were out to get them.
"He wanted to know my sources". Well, fine, that is a fair point. Now I want to see HIS sources, maybe a little bit of empirical data instead of conjecture "I think that newegg changes prices on me to get my business!" He is asking for proof with out giving any evidence to the contrary. There is no evidence that any of these sites do this except that he thinks it. This is like telling me that a missile hit the WTC instead of two planes. You can say it all you want, you can conjecture all you want, but unless you actually have data, its pretty much worthless.
Legality, I'm not sure about the exact laws. Sorry. Offering more computer savy people a better price is discrimination. Also, it would tarnish their reputation well beyond repair if they were caught doing this.
Of course it is possible that it happens. It is also possible that Jesus was actually someone from 2038 who went back in time. It is also possible that 9/11 was a huge US Government conspiracy. It is also possible that we never landed on the moon and it was all fabricated. I can admit that all of those are possible things that could have happend. But I'm sorry, just because it "could happen" doesn't give grounds to go spewing it online as if it is fact with out empirical data.
"Perhaps more information on this subject eventually will come to light and we can get the real scoop on who might be doing this."
Perhaps more information will come to light and I will be wrong and newegg and all the other vendors are trying to screw you over. If you are that paranoid about people screwing you over with no evidence or empirical data I don't know what is to stop you from believing every other conspiracy theory no matter how outlandish.
chris, there is a difference between newegg and adware. Did you know that newegg.com actually spent their time to lobby for/show support for anti-spam/spyware legislation? Legislation that hopefully will be passed so that you can sue spyware companies? I know that it is physically possible to do, but give me a break. newegg is just as repudible in the computer retailer business as amazon is in the book realm.
"He wanted to know my sources". Well, fine, that is a fair point. Now I want to see HIS sources, maybe a little bit of empirical data instead of conjecture "I think that newegg changes prices on me to get my business!" He is asking for proof with out giving any evidence to the contrary. There is no evidence that any of these sites do this except that he thinks it. This is like telling me that a missile hit the WTC instead of two planes. You can say it all you want, you can conjecture all you want, but unless you actually have data, its pretty much worthless.
Legality, I'm not sure about the exact laws. Sorry. Offering more computer savy people a better price is discrimination. Also, it would tarnish their reputation well beyond repair if they were caught doing this.
Of course it is possible that it happens. It is also possible that Jesus was actually someone from 2038 who went back in time. It is also possible that 9/11 was a huge US Government conspiracy. It is also possible that we never landed on the moon and it was all fabricated. I can admit that all of those are possible things that could have happend. But I'm sorry, just because it "could happen" doesn't give grounds to go spewing it online as if it is fact with out empirical data.
"Perhaps more information on this subject eventually will come to light and we can get the real scoop on who might be doing this."
Perhaps more information will come to light and I will be wrong and newegg and all the other vendors are trying to screw you over. If you are that paranoid about people screwing you over with no evidence or empirical data I don't know what is to stop you from believing every other conspiracy theory no matter how outlandish.
chris, there is a difference between newegg and adware. Did you know that newegg.com actually spent their time to lobby for/show support for anti-spam/spyware legislation? Legislation that hopefully will be passed so that you can sue spyware companies? I know that it is physically possible to do, but give me a break. newegg is just as repudible in the computer retailer business as amazon is in the book realm.
"accusations that certain companies manipulated their pricing in order to mislead buyers to get their business"
Show me this accusation please, I don't see it. What I read was just a statement. And yes, I agree he worded it more or less as fact but later he simply stated what he had seen (his experience) and what he had heard (providing the source). I don't believe I saw anything that resembled an accusation regarding misleading buyers (at least not from Deathray). But on this note, every vendor manipulates their pricing in order to get buyers, reputable or not (thus the "low price guarantee", rebates, coupons and such). The misleading part generally comes into play when what is sent isn't what is offered or they provide a price for something they never intend to sell you (I'm referring to my own experiences there). No accusations of that sort were made at all.
"empirical data instead of conjecture"
I believe, "Recently I have found big differences in prices quoted by the same website for electronics. Also Capitol One quoted me both 7.9% and 9.9% for the same card." meets the definition of empirical data...it may not be bullet proof or even very good data, but like I said, he had seen it and we later learned about how he had heard of such a practice, thus he provided the information.
"Offering more computer savy people a better price is discrimination. Also, it would tarnish their reputation well beyond repair if they were caught doing this."
I disagree, I recently had to replace the windshield in my car and when I called around for prices several places asked me what the lowest price I was quoted so far and then proceeded to beat that price- no discrimination needed, they just want the business and are willing to discount to get it. Priceline was built on offering different people different prices (one could argue priceline clearly discriminates against computer users and non-computer users) but if you believe this is discrimination, then by all means I smell potential for a lawsuit!
"chris, there is a difference between newegg and adware. Did you know that newegg.com actually spent their time to lobby for/show support for anti-spam/spyware legislation?"
I am fully aware of the difference between newegg and adware. I was only indicating that it would be easier to implement the kind of functionality Deathray was describing if it were built into an adware type program-[edit] a thought that gives me pause since it would then be equally possible for disreputable vendors to use this type of technology to manipulate prices the other way or even be downright deceptive. [end edit] I didn't mean to imply newegg actually uses adware. Just FYI, I frequent newegg in my daily ritual and I have a rather hefty stockpile of newegg t-shirts from the alarmingly high number of orders I place with them regularly (back when they had good promotions like free t-shirts and such anyway- those evil customer manipulators really knew how to get my business then...). I have an order from them rushing its way to me right now. I'm sure newegg did lobby against adware/spyware. I'm a little skeptical they would have done this out of the goodness of their concern for us. More likely they did it to help prevent customers from being pulled in by such aggressive/intrusive tactics (thus preventing them from getting to newegg).
Sure, lots of things could happen and could have happened and some even should happen. The point wasn't so much that it could, but that in the realm of real possibility we should be aware (when you get lax or don't know what to look for, things like adware make it on your computer or 9/11 and London bombings are more likely to occur). I know I hadn't conceived of this possibility and I like to think of this sort of thing all the time in order to help me be aware of what is going on behind my computer's back. To me, this concept is one that if it isn't available and implemented right now, likely will be. Frankly, if no one is doing this and I were an enterprising internet programmer I would start my own company to do this very thing. I'm certain there are plenty of reputable vendors that would be very interested in this and frankly, they should. Therefore, IMHO, this is worth knowing about and thinking about.
So thanks to Deathray for the bit of info/possibility to chew on and thanks to holsamoht for the enlivening debate!
Happy shopping...
Show me this accusation please, I don't see it. What I read was just a statement. And yes, I agree he worded it more or less as fact but later he simply stated what he had seen (his experience) and what he had heard (providing the source). I don't believe I saw anything that resembled an accusation regarding misleading buyers (at least not from Deathray). But on this note, every vendor manipulates their pricing in order to get buyers, reputable or not (thus the "low price guarantee", rebates, coupons and such). The misleading part generally comes into play when what is sent isn't what is offered or they provide a price for something they never intend to sell you (I'm referring to my own experiences there). No accusations of that sort were made at all.
"empirical data instead of conjecture"
I believe, "Recently I have found big differences in prices quoted by the same website for electronics. Also Capitol One quoted me both 7.9% and 9.9% for the same card." meets the definition of empirical data...it may not be bullet proof or even very good data, but like I said, he had seen it and we later learned about how he had heard of such a practice, thus he provided the information.
"Offering more computer savy people a better price is discrimination. Also, it would tarnish their reputation well beyond repair if they were caught doing this."
I disagree, I recently had to replace the windshield in my car and when I called around for prices several places asked me what the lowest price I was quoted so far and then proceeded to beat that price- no discrimination needed, they just want the business and are willing to discount to get it. Priceline was built on offering different people different prices (one could argue priceline clearly discriminates against computer users and non-computer users) but if you believe this is discrimination, then by all means I smell potential for a lawsuit!
"chris, there is a difference between newegg and adware. Did you know that newegg.com actually spent their time to lobby for/show support for anti-spam/spyware legislation?"
I am fully aware of the difference between newegg and adware. I was only indicating that it would be easier to implement the kind of functionality Deathray was describing if it were built into an adware type program-[edit] a thought that gives me pause since it would then be equally possible for disreputable vendors to use this type of technology to manipulate prices the other way or even be downright deceptive. [end edit] I didn't mean to imply newegg actually uses adware. Just FYI, I frequent newegg in my daily ritual and I have a rather hefty stockpile of newegg t-shirts from the alarmingly high number of orders I place with them regularly (back when they had good promotions like free t-shirts and such anyway- those evil customer manipulators really knew how to get my business then...). I have an order from them rushing its way to me right now. I'm sure newegg did lobby against adware/spyware. I'm a little skeptical they would have done this out of the goodness of their concern for us. More likely they did it to help prevent customers from being pulled in by such aggressive/intrusive tactics (thus preventing them from getting to newegg).
Sure, lots of things could happen and could have happened and some even should happen. The point wasn't so much that it could, but that in the realm of real possibility we should be aware (when you get lax or don't know what to look for, things like adware make it on your computer or 9/11 and London bombings are more likely to occur). I know I hadn't conceived of this possibility and I like to think of this sort of thing all the time in order to help me be aware of what is going on behind my computer's back. To me, this concept is one that if it isn't available and implemented right now, likely will be. Frankly, if no one is doing this and I were an enterprising internet programmer I would start my own company to do this very thing. I'm certain there are plenty of reputable vendors that would be very interested in this and frankly, they should. Therefore, IMHO, this is worth knowing about and thinking about.
So thanks to Deathray for the bit of info/possibility to chew on and thanks to holsamoht for the enlivening debate!
Happy shopping...
Heh, I know about the lobbying, well because I was the one who suggested it and actually was there . I was going with the Arab-American Anti-Discrimination Commitee to talk to congressmen/women about the Patriot act and then did my own thing on my free time giving my views/some documents to my senators and reps about adaware/spyware. I actually told them to switch to firefox and they laughed at me 
.
And btw, when I say empirical data I really mean saying more than "This one time the prices were different!". I mean comparing left and right, saying that they categorically change prices. Capital one only has one product to sell, their own. Newegg is a retailer and sells many products from many companies. If they are really using cookies to spy on you, you would be able to do a side by side comparison. But you can't do that with Newegg because well... the prices stay the same (I actually just did it with three different computers here at work and compared it with my brother simultaniously in New Jersey. All of them gave the same prices. THAT is empirical data.
. I was going with the Arab-American Anti-Discrimination Commitee to talk to congressmen/women about the Patriot act and then did my own thing on my free time giving my views/some documents to my senators and reps about adaware/spyware. I actually told them to switch to firefox and they laughed at me . And btw, when I say empirical data I really mean saying more than "This one time the prices were different!". I mean comparing left and right, saying that they categorically change prices. Capital one only has one product to sell, their own. Newegg is a retailer and sells many products from many companies. If they are really using cookies to spy on you, you would be able to do a side by side comparison. But you can't do that with Newegg because well... the prices stay the same (I actually just did it with three different computers here at work and compared it with my brother simultaniously in New Jersey. All of them gave the same prices. THAT is empirical data.
"I was the one who suggested it and actually was there "
Cool, keep it up. This adware crap is a never ending struggle that shouldn't exist, or at least shouldn't be allowed to install without express written consent and a psych evaluation. More people should be writing congress about it IMHO (or at least pelting the adware company bad guys with cream pies)...
"If they are really using cookies to spy on you, you would be able to do a side by side comparison. But you can't do that with Newegg because well... the prices stay the same (I actually just did it with three different computers here at work and compared it with my brother simultaniously in New Jersey. All of them gave the same prices. THAT is empirical data."
Doesn't seem that much different from Deathray to me, maybe a little more involved but your conclusion leaves me a bit baffled. The net result of such a technology would be the same price except in certain instances. If and only if you had managed to comparison shop at a site this "supposed technology" was able to get a hit on in your cache would you have a possibility of seeing a different price from what you might otherwise see.
In order to really compare I suppose it would be necessary to to use two identical computers starting from scratch with clean caches, browse to a number of different sites (not necessarily the pricewatch/pricegrabber/comparison sites either since any site that implements this technology would surely be able to limit it to only those sites they choose to compete directly with) and then look up the same item from the same site on them both. Even then, it may be a regional thing based on marketing demographics. They can get a pretty good idea where you are geographically based on your IP address. And lets not even get into how this "technology" might have been piggy backed onto particular computers in the guise of "useful add-ons" like weather trackers, Yahoo or other browser/search/tool bars and the like (or just plain adware generated). I don't know what Deathray has installed on his computer but if this technology is delivered that way there is more than a fair chance you wouldn't see anything like what he described unless you also had the same thing installed.
At any rate, if this ain't happenin' now, I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see it real soon...
Anything to make a buck...
Cool, keep it up. This adware crap is a never ending struggle that shouldn't exist, or at least shouldn't be allowed to install without express written consent and a psych evaluation. More people should be writing congress about it IMHO (or at least pelting the adware company bad guys with cream pies)...
"If they are really using cookies to spy on you, you would be able to do a side by side comparison. But you can't do that with Newegg because well... the prices stay the same (I actually just did it with three different computers here at work and compared it with my brother simultaniously in New Jersey. All of them gave the same prices. THAT is empirical data."
Doesn't seem that much different from Deathray to me, maybe a little more involved but your conclusion leaves me a bit baffled. The net result of such a technology would be the same price except in certain instances. If and only if you had managed to comparison shop at a site this "supposed technology" was able to get a hit on in your cache would you have a possibility of seeing a different price from what you might otherwise see.
In order to really compare I suppose it would be necessary to to use two identical computers starting from scratch with clean caches, browse to a number of different sites (not necessarily the pricewatch/pricegrabber/comparison sites either since any site that implements this technology would surely be able to limit it to only those sites they choose to compete directly with) and then look up the same item from the same site on them both. Even then, it may be a regional thing based on marketing demographics. They can get a pretty good idea where you are geographically based on your IP address. And lets not even get into how this "technology" might have been piggy backed onto particular computers in the guise of "useful add-ons" like weather trackers, Yahoo or other browser/search/tool bars and the like (or just plain adware generated). I don't know what Deathray has installed on his computer but if this technology is delivered that way there is more than a fair chance you wouldn't see anything like what he described unless you also had the same thing installed.
At any rate, if this ain't happenin' now, I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see it real soon...
Anything to make a buck...
This thread needs to be deleted. It's a load of crap and totally pointless. The original poster makes allegations about pricing schemes used by different websites and has no evidence relating to anything. This is simply moronic and all this arguing about unproven crap is a waste of time. When someone can show that any of this is remotely true, then start a thread. At this point in time, there is no proof of any of this. I periodically clean out my cookies, and prices remain the same before and after regardless of which websites I visit. If you believe this crap, you've probably been watching too much X-Files.
With all due respect, just because you don't like the post, it doesn't mean it should be deleted. It was on its way to dying out, but you had to bring it up again.
And yes, I have seen different prices from the same website (tigerdirect) within minutes of each other (see above post). One had the rebate and one didn't. Just because someone and their brother didn't see it at a particular time on a particular website doesn't mean it doesn't happen at all.
This thread is meant to inform people that it is possible to do this (even if it may not happen on all websites). The technology is READILY available to quote different prices based on the link you use to get the price (for example search engines or advertisements etc.). While it is possible to look at your cookies to give different prices, I REALLY doubt that this is being done (since the only effective way would be a spyware program).
And yes, I have seen different prices from the same website (tigerdirect) within minutes of each other (see above post). One had the rebate and one didn't. Just because someone and their brother didn't see it at a particular time on a particular website doesn't mean it doesn't happen at all.
This thread is meant to inform people that it is possible to do this (even if it may not happen on all websites). The technology is READILY available to quote different prices based on the link you use to get the price (for example search engines or advertisements etc.). While it is possible to look at your cookies to give different prices, I REALLY doubt that this is being done (since the only effective way would be a spyware program).
Shees... JWFokker, relax man.
I know that the thread has devolved into bickering and has become nearly useless. Sorry you had to read it, but it is not moronic nor unfounded. I cited a reliable source and didn't mention Tigerdirect or Newegg until I was asked about them.
I probably shouldn't have mentioned those companies but I never accused them with certainty.
I know that the thread has devolved into bickering and has become nearly useless. Sorry you had to read it, but it is not moronic nor unfounded. I cited a reliable source and didn't mention Tigerdirect or Newegg until I was asked about them.
I probably shouldn't have mentioned those companies but I never accused them with certainty.
Wow, where are the logic police when you need them? Points to consider...
- There are several web/programming methods that could accomplish this type of automatic pricing adjustment, cookies are just 1 aspect of it and in some instances wouldn't even be necessary.
- There is no need to lump this possibility into a conspiracy theory category when it is done at stores all over the world (ANY store that advertises that they will meet or beat a competitor's price is doing this- the web version described here would just be automagic).
- There is absolutely no reason to believe that everyone who owns a computer will experience this no matter what web sites they visit. If this function is piggy-backed onto a computer via a "monitor the weather applet" installed as a perk to registered users of weather.com (as an example only) then you would obviously have to be a registered user of weather.com AND have downloaded/installed the "monitor the weather applet".
- Only certain products may trigger this function therefore you would have to have visited the appropriate sites and viewed the EXACT same item on those site(s) AND that item would have to be one that triggers this function.
- Additionally such a function is likely not universal so only a site or a select few sites would employ such a feature and therefore if you visit that site(s) first and then end up viewing the price on a different site they may all show the same price but if you had visited the sites in the reverse order, then the price difference may have showed up.
- Browser differences (settings, versions, source, etc).
- I am baffled as to why so many people read this like it is some sort of accusation of wrong doing on the part of some vendor. I mean get real, as you drive around town wherever you live you will likely see different gas prices at different BP (or all the Exxon or Gas City or Speedway or whatever) stations around town (some may be the same, others may be different). All BP stations should charge the same price, right? Do you all cry foul and call your state attorney general to register a complaint or do you just find the best price and buy your gas?
- There are several web/programming methods that could accomplish this type of automatic pricing adjustment, cookies are just 1 aspect of it and in some instances wouldn't even be necessary.
- There is no need to lump this possibility into a conspiracy theory category when it is done at stores all over the world (ANY store that advertises that they will meet or beat a competitor's price is doing this- the web version described here would just be automagic).
- There is absolutely no reason to believe that everyone who owns a computer will experience this no matter what web sites they visit. If this function is piggy-backed onto a computer via a "monitor the weather applet" installed as a perk to registered users of weather.com (as an example only) then you would obviously have to be a registered user of weather.com AND have downloaded/installed the "monitor the weather applet".
- Only certain products may trigger this function therefore you would have to have visited the appropriate sites and viewed the EXACT same item on those site(s) AND that item would have to be one that triggers this function.
- Additionally such a function is likely not universal so only a site or a select few sites would employ such a feature and therefore if you visit that site(s) first and then end up viewing the price on a different site they may all show the same price but if you had visited the sites in the reverse order, then the price difference may have showed up.
- Browser differences (settings, versions, source, etc).
- I am baffled as to why so many people read this like it is some sort of accusation of wrong doing on the part of some vendor. I mean get real, as you drive around town wherever you live you will likely see different gas prices at different BP (or all the Exxon or Gas City or Speedway or whatever) stations around town (some may be the same, others may be different). All BP stations should charge the same price, right? Do you all cry foul and call your state attorney general to register a complaint or do you just find the best price and buy your gas?
I fail to see why people are offended at the very concept.
It's possible, even credible.
It may or may not work for you.
It's worth a try. In any case, I would never advocate buying anything without shopping around first. At worst, it's a good reason to look around. At best, it's a way to get a better deal from your preffered vendor.
It's possible, even credible.
It may or may not work for you.
It's worth a try. In any case, I would never advocate buying anything without shopping around first. At worst, it's a good reason to look around. At best, it's a way to get a better deal from your preffered vendor.
jmrguy makes the most sense for a couple of reasons. First, the entire purpose of an advertising banner is to pull a prospective customer in. It is certainly easier to do that with a "good deal" than with normal everyday pricing.
Many links and/or banners promise % off total purchase discounts. "Click HERE and save 15% off your total purchase" might be a tag line for a link that takes you to TigerDirect. Now, obviously, if I follow that link I can look forward to saving 15% on my order. Conversely, let's say I ALT+D, to navigate to my address bar, and I type in "tigerdirect.com" -- since I didn't follow that link there's no way I can count on that 15% savings -- sure, the deal may be out there for all, and I just might get it, but I may not!
Special links and banner ads are nothing more than a site's way to make use of their "coupon codes." In fact, that is exactly what many of these links and ads feature. They are nothing more than coupon codes that the company pre-fills out for you from using that link, sponsor, etc. Even if you don't think that links render different prices, any of us who have shopped online are familiar with coupon codes. If I buy from the same site as you, but you know the "magic word" and I do not -- guess what, you win!
We're both making the same purchase (item and vendor) but you score a better deal because you did a little research. (Side note, many sites have a search function and searching for either "coupon" or "coupon code" will save you a lot of time and money. I do this all of the time. You don't always have to get a coupon code from another source - most sites have it on their site, right at your disposal -- assuming you use it.)
Furthermore, jmrguy is also correct that this feature is more than likely not used very much by way of reading cookies. Can it be done? Yes. Can it be done with great accuracy or wide scale distribution? Highly unlikely.
One of the reasons for this is something that hasn't yet been addressed. Lets say I was going to implement this "price matching" technology in my web site. In order for me to match TigerDirect, Best Buy, CompUSA, and NewEgg I would have to program my site to not only read their item and pricing data -- but also the way each company uses and stores their item and pricing data. Essentially, I couldn't have a script that matches every site you've been to. I could possibly write a script that matches NewEgg, and then a seperate script that matches Best Buy, and yet another that matches TigerDirect.
Why would you need seperate scripts if it's the same item?
Well, because it isn't the same vendor, and they most assuredly store their data differently. Perhaps NewEgg has 2 models of an NVidia 6600 based card and TigerDirect has 2 different models. Now, I can't price match both -- because maybe I only have the same product as one of them. Better still, lets say we all do have the same exact item... in this case a 15" NEC LCD (to keep with the LL theme) -- but I store my pricing information by item number, and lets say Tiger Direct does as well, but maybe NewEgg stores the information by SKU.
Now, it is very possible (and LIKELY) that even though my company and Tiger Direct both use item numbers that our item numbers aren't the same. Maybe to order that LCD from me you are ordering item A20341, but ordering item A20341 from Tiger Direct means you just purchased 512 MB of SDRAM. And since NewEgg doesn't use Item numbers for their pricing and inventory, searching for that information in their cookies is useless to me.
So, can it be done? Yes!
With ease or accuracy? No
To accomplish this you would need to know your competitors complete inventory listing, how that inventory is databased, and what the pricing information is pulled from. In essence, you would have to practically know and store the inventory-route accounting system for each of your competitors -- and because their information changes dynamically -- your database would need to be linked with theirs to update. This scenario is highly unlikely.
I can evision a system that has me bettering the price of my merchandise for my biggest one or two competitors, but certainly not all of them!
Food for thought...
edit: changed "way way" to "by way"
Many links and/or banners promise % off total purchase discounts. "Click HERE and save 15% off your total purchase" might be a tag line for a link that takes you to TigerDirect. Now, obviously, if I follow that link I can look forward to saving 15% on my order. Conversely, let's say I ALT+D, to navigate to my address bar, and I type in "tigerdirect.com" -- since I didn't follow that link there's no way I can count on that 15% savings -- sure, the deal may be out there for all, and I just might get it, but I may not!
Special links and banner ads are nothing more than a site's way to make use of their "coupon codes." In fact, that is exactly what many of these links and ads feature. They are nothing more than coupon codes that the company pre-fills out for you from using that link, sponsor, etc. Even if you don't think that links render different prices, any of us who have shopped online are familiar with coupon codes. If I buy from the same site as you, but you know the "magic word" and I do not -- guess what, you win!
We're both making the same purchase (item and vendor) but you score a better deal because you did a little research. (Side note, many sites have a search function and searching for either "coupon" or "coupon code" will save you a lot of time and money. I do this all of the time. You don't always have to get a coupon code from another source - most sites have it on their site, right at your disposal -- assuming you use it.)
Furthermore, jmrguy is also correct that this feature is more than likely not used very much by way of reading cookies. Can it be done? Yes. Can it be done with great accuracy or wide scale distribution? Highly unlikely.
One of the reasons for this is something that hasn't yet been addressed. Lets say I was going to implement this "price matching" technology in my web site. In order for me to match TigerDirect, Best Buy, CompUSA, and NewEgg I would have to program my site to not only read their item and pricing data -- but also the way each company uses and stores their item and pricing data. Essentially, I couldn't have a script that matches every site you've been to. I could possibly write a script that matches NewEgg, and then a seperate script that matches Best Buy, and yet another that matches TigerDirect.
Why would you need seperate scripts if it's the same item?
Well, because it isn't the same vendor, and they most assuredly store their data differently. Perhaps NewEgg has 2 models of an NVidia 6600 based card and TigerDirect has 2 different models. Now, I can't price match both -- because maybe I only have the same product as one of them. Better still, lets say we all do have the same exact item... in this case a 15" NEC LCD (to keep with the LL theme) -- but I store my pricing information by item number, and lets say Tiger Direct does as well, but maybe NewEgg stores the information by SKU.
Now, it is very possible (and LIKELY) that even though my company and Tiger Direct both use item numbers that our item numbers aren't the same. Maybe to order that LCD from me you are ordering item A20341, but ordering item A20341 from Tiger Direct means you just purchased 512 MB of SDRAM. And since NewEgg doesn't use Item numbers for their pricing and inventory, searching for that information in their cookies is useless to me.
So, can it be done? Yes!
With ease or accuracy? No
To accomplish this you would need to know your competitors complete inventory listing, how that inventory is databased, and what the pricing information is pulled from. In essence, you would have to practically know and store the inventory-route accounting system for each of your competitors -- and because their information changes dynamically -- your database would need to be linked with theirs to update. This scenario is highly unlikely.
I can evision a system that has me bettering the price of my merchandise for my biggest one or two competitors, but certainly not all of them!
Food for thought...
edit: changed "way way" to "by way"
I have heard of this happening. As a matter of fact the guy who offices next to me had it happen to him. He was interested in getting SBC DSL at work so he went to their website to price it. The first price he got was when he was at home. At home he has COX Hi Speed which is a competitor. The next price he got was when he was at work and he was using dial up. The price was lower when he was at home probably because his computer had the IP address from Cox and SBC looks for that range. To me this is not any different than in the real world. Alot of times you can get a better deal if you switch from a competitor.
As far as the use of cookies I would imagine websites use them to market and possibly set price points. If you find this practice unfair then don't allow cookies to be placed on your computer.
As far as the use of cookies I would imagine websites use them to market and possibly set price points. If you find this practice unfair then don't allow cookies to be placed on your computer.
"To accomplish this you would need to know your competitors complete inventory listing, how that inventory is databased, and what the pricing information is pulled from. In essence, you would have to practically know and store the inventory-route accounting system for each of your competitors -- and because their information changes dynamically -- your database would need to be linked with theirs to update. This scenario is highly unlikely."
Yes, this scenario is unlikely, but it is not the only method that could be used (though to an extent this is what price comparison sites do so perhaps it isn't quite 'highly' unlikely). If we just stick to the cookie scenario as the easiest to deal with, most vendors include the manufacturers model # with their own item #, so simply search stringing on the manufacturer model # will likely give you a reasonable chance at an accurate hit, however, the trick to making certain you're not offering an unbelievable price on an "ultra" version because the app mistakenly thinks you're looking at an Ultra version when you're really looking at an LE version is to cross check price limits. If the "ultra" version is normally $200 and you would be willing to sell for $180 and the app mistakenly thinks the $100 LE version you are looking at is the Ultra version it won't go below the $180 mark no matter what price comes up for the LE version. More than likely though, the pricing limits would be set such that the $180 price for the Ultra version wouldn't even show up if the "compare to" price was out of range (meaning below $180 or above $200). Thus you would NOT need to have access to or track any competitor's database. I'll point out that key word searching on item name would work in probably 99% of cases if you get a 3 word or more match in conjunction with the price range limits.
I definitely agree wholeheartedly though that no vendor would institute this type of pricing strategy across the board for all competing vendors, just the most direct competitors since many of the "non-name brand" vendors have a high risk of trying to sell shady items that may look like, be described as or have the same manufacturer # as legit vendors only the item in question won't be legit and thus the pricing will be suspect as well.
Just as JaceMan indicated about the coupon code scenario, I can also see a similar approach being taken by portals that act more or less like distributors but are really nothing more than a store front. If they work out a deal with the real vendor you may get a better price going through the portal's shopping site than if you go directly to the real vendor's site (yahoo comes to mind- noting that this would NOT be true for all products obviously). In this case it would be an arranged marriage but it would be to the advantage of a competitor to try and undercut the portal price when possible- which they might be able to do automagically using the methods described or any variety of other approaches.
So like I said before, if this technology really does not exist and I were an enterprising dot commer, I would start my own company to create it. Oh, if there are any web programmers out there reading this and you create this technology, sell it for millions and retire, you must cut me in for 10%...
Yes, this scenario is unlikely, but it is not the only method that could be used (though to an extent this is what price comparison sites do so perhaps it isn't quite 'highly' unlikely). If we just stick to the cookie scenario as the easiest to deal with, most vendors include the manufacturers model # with their own item #, so simply search stringing on the manufacturer model # will likely give you a reasonable chance at an accurate hit, however, the trick to making certain you're not offering an unbelievable price on an "ultra" version because the app mistakenly thinks you're looking at an Ultra version when you're really looking at an LE version is to cross check price limits. If the "ultra" version is normally $200 and you would be willing to sell for $180 and the app mistakenly thinks the $100 LE version you are looking at is the Ultra version it won't go below the $180 mark no matter what price comes up for the LE version. More than likely though, the pricing limits would be set such that the $180 price for the Ultra version wouldn't even show up if the "compare to" price was out of range (meaning below $180 or above $200). Thus you would NOT need to have access to or track any competitor's database. I'll point out that key word searching on item name would work in probably 99% of cases if you get a 3 word or more match in conjunction with the price range limits.
I definitely agree wholeheartedly though that no vendor would institute this type of pricing strategy across the board for all competing vendors, just the most direct competitors since many of the "non-name brand" vendors have a high risk of trying to sell shady items that may look like, be described as or have the same manufacturer # as legit vendors only the item in question won't be legit and thus the pricing will be suspect as well.
Just as JaceMan indicated about the coupon code scenario, I can also see a similar approach being taken by portals that act more or less like distributors but are really nothing more than a store front. If they work out a deal with the real vendor you may get a better price going through the portal's shopping site than if you go directly to the real vendor's site (yahoo comes to mind- noting that this would NOT be true for all products obviously). In this case it would be an arranged marriage but it would be to the advantage of a competitor to try and undercut the portal price when possible- which they might be able to do automagically using the methods described or any variety of other approaches.
So like I said before, if this technology really does not exist and I were an enterprising dot commer, I would start my own company to create it. Oh, if there are any web programmers out there reading this and you create this technology, sell it for millions and retire, you must cut me in for 10%...
QUOTE (chrisbballas @ Aug 24 2005, 10:41 AM)
Yes, this scenario is unlikely, but it is not the only method that could be used (though to an extent this is what price comparison sites do so perhaps it isn't quite 'highly' unlikely). If we just stick to the cookie scenario as the easiest to deal with, most vendors include the manufacturers model # with their own item #, so simply search stringing on the manufacturer model # will likely give you a reasonable chance at an accurate hit.
Reasonable chance at finding the product - perhaps... but certainly not 100%. I would say maybe 80%, but the fundamental flaw with your thought pattern is in assuming that the vendor stores their pricing information with the item information. The two don't have to be linked. It is quite probable that the pricing information is loaded through a backend database linked to UPC codes, SKUs, and/or another custom field.
To pull product information may not be that hard, but to pull product-pricing information is much more difficult, because of all the variables this chore brings forth. As I mentioned earlier, even when two vendors carry the exact same product, it does not mean they classify or store information on that product in the same way. Even if they do, you can't guarantee that they use the same "variable" to make that call.
That is to say, maybe we are dealing with item # 34772 for a metal hallide lamp. This is the manufacturers item number so it should be the same for both of our companies. But what if I store my manufacturer item codes in a variable named "mcode" and you store yours in "itemNo"?
The cookie that you set on your site stores pricing information is populated in the "itemNo" field, but mine is found in "mcode". That is why I said, you would not only need to know the exact item, but how your competitor chooses to store pricing information for their inventory.
The process could be super simple, but more than likely would be overly complex to accomplish with enough accuracy to use for any length of time because even if you get the formula programmed properly your code is busted as soon as your competitor changes their process.
As a professional programmer, I simply can't see a method in which this would take place on a broad scale or would be worth the effort to try and make it happen that way.
No sir... you're better off linking prices to advertisements, special links, coupon codes, web portals, or pricing for regional offers (linked from your visitors IP Address) than through reading and trying to use your competitor's cookies. Also, I believe you could make a case about the legality of doing so because a "cookie" on my computer is an agreement between me and the "placing computer" not an agreement for other sites to use that data.
QUOTE (JaceMan @ Aug 24 2005, 12:46 PM)
QUOTE (chrisbballas @ Aug 24 2005, 10:41 AM)
Yes, this scenario is unlikely, but it is not the only method that could be used (though to an extent this is what price comparison sites do so perhaps it isn't quite 'highly' unlikely). If we just stick to the cookie scenario as the easiest to deal with, most vendors include the manufacturers model # with their own item #, so simply search stringing on the manufacturer model # will likely give you a reasonable chance at an accurate hit.
Reasonable chance at finding the product - perhaps... but certainly not 100%. I would say maybe 80%, but the fundamental flaw with your thought pattern is in assuming that the vendor stores their pricing information with the item information. The two don't have to be linked. It is quite probable that the pricing information is loaded through a backend database linked to UPC codes, SKUs, and/or another custom field.
To pull product information may not be that hard, but to pull product-pricing information is much more difficult, because of all the variables this chore brings forth. As I mentioned earlier, even when two vendors carry the exact same product, it does not mean they classify or store information on that product in the same way. Even if they do, you can't guarantee that they use the same "variable" to make that call.
That is to say, maybe we are dealing with item # 34772 for a metal hallide lamp. This is the manufacturers item number so it should be the same for both of our companies. But what if I store my manufacturer item codes in a variable named "mcode" and you store yours in "itemNo"?
The cookie that you set on your site stores pricing information is populated in the "itemNo" field, but mine is found in "mcode". That is why I said, you would not only need to know the exact item, but how your competitor chooses to store pricing information for their inventory.
The process could be super simple, but more than likely would be overly complex to accomplish with enough accuracy to use for any length of time because even if you get the formula programmed properly your code is busted as soon as your competitor changes their process.
As a professional programmer, I simply can't see a method in which this would take place on a broad scale or would be worth the effort to try and make it happen that way.
No sir... you're better off linking prices to advertisements, special links, coupon codes, web portals, or pricing for regional offers (linked from your visitors IP Address) than through reading and trying to use your competitor's cookies. Also, I believe you could make a case about the legality of doing so because a "cookie" on my computer is an agreement between me and the "placing computer" not an agreement for other sites to use that data.
How does PriceGrabber and these other price comparison sites get real time prices? Are these reatailers using Web Services to provide pricing to these sites?
If so, the competitor(when you visit their site) could get the retailers name from your cookies then get the price from the competitors Web Services that they have available publicly then adjust their price accordingly. Don't know if this is how large companies(retailers) are providing this information to price comparison sites. But just a thought seeing that alot of companies are starting to use Web Services.
QUOTE (brianabs @ Aug 24 2005, 12:00 PM)
How does PriceGrabber and these other price comparison sites get real time prices? Are these reatailers using Web Services to provide pricing to these sites?
If so, the competitor(when you visit their site) could get the retailers name from your cookies then get the price from the competitors Web Services that they have available publicly then adjust their price accordingly. Don't know if this is how large companies(retailers) are providing this information to price comparison sites. But just a thought seeing that alot of companies are starting to use Web Services.
If so, the competitor(when you visit their site) could get the retailers name from your cookies then get the price from the competitors Web Services that they have available publicly then adjust their price accordingly. Don't know if this is how large companies(retailers) are providing this information to price comparison sites. But just a thought seeing that alot of companies are starting to use Web Services.
Great question... I believe the secret is that sites like PriceGrabber often times don't have "real time" pricing as they claim. I, for one, have several times seen price discrepancies between what PriceGrabber tells me and what the actual price is when I click on their link taking me directly to the vendor.
It is just a "guess" but I believe that PriceGrabber and similar sites have partnerships with all of the vendors that it compares... these vendors are responsible for providing them with up-to-date pricing information. That would also explain why the prices don't always match. Perhaps they don't get updated as often as they should from some of the smaller sites.
Again, I'm not staking my life on this, but the scene seems logical to me.
JaceMan,
I know what you mean about the backend, but you're pre-supposing that the only way to link this info is by passing a variable to different variable names. The pricing information isn't always just passed directly from the primary pricing database. An example is that I have periodically saved my carts and been able to call up an old price. On at least 2 occassions I can recall I went ahead and placed the saved cart order and the old price was used, not the current one off the site. That tells me they either have a separate database generated by cart stored in the backend (seems less likely) or they save the pricing data in the cookie. But again, to do this you don't necessarily need a cookie nor do you need access to the pricing database (or its variable names). An installed applet (such as a shopping tool bar) can easily cherry pick the relevant information from displayed pages (just the displayed text, not the backend code or directly from variable name arguments) while you browse.
Some price comparison sites undoubtedly have relationships with vendors, certainly when they show a preferred vendor this is true. But my recollection from when such sites started is that they use technology similar to spiders used by web search sites that automatically crawl around vendor sites collecting the necessary information (I'm not sure if they manage some sort of direct ODBC type connection to the databases but it seems like this would be difficult/impossible on a protected system without a working relationship- so they probably generate their own queries)....
Actually, while writing this I decided to do my own query and I came upon this article (here is the link which has a link to a PDF of the article). I don't pretend to understand it all but it does seem to describe how price comparison sites compile their info (given the different naming/syntax from different sites) and seems to have some relevance to how prices might be automatically adjusted...
http://csdl2.computer.org/persagen/DLAbsTo...PIS.1998.706182
I hope no one thinks I'm harping on this topic or anything, I just find it very interesting and worth discussing the possibilities (or impossibilities) as I'm continually fascinated by what is available on the web these days (good and bad). I mean, hey, if these interminable spyware/adware thingies are continually able to infest computers and deliver their snake oil by skirting around Microsoft and anti-spy/adware then it would seem building in automatic price adjustments would be child's play...Maybe not, but it seems like it is something lurking out there in one form or another, present or future and therefore worth knowing about (technical aspects aside).
[EDIT] The link above may require you to purchase the PDF file to get access to the article. My institution apparently has a subscription so I didn't need to buy the article. If anyone is really interested most libraries would probably have access to the article.
I know what you mean about the backend, but you're pre-supposing that the only way to link this info is by passing a variable to different variable names. The pricing information isn't always just passed directly from the primary pricing database. An example is that I have periodically saved my carts and been able to call up an old price. On at least 2 occassions I can recall I went ahead and placed the saved cart order and the old price was used, not the current one off the site. That tells me they either have a separate database generated by cart stored in the backend (seems less likely) or they save the pricing data in the cookie. But again, to do this you don't necessarily need a cookie nor do you need access to the pricing database (or its variable names). An installed applet (such as a shopping tool bar) can easily cherry pick the relevant information from displayed pages (just the displayed text, not the backend code or directly from variable name arguments) while you browse.
Some price comparison sites undoubtedly have relationships with vendors, certainly when they show a preferred vendor this is true. But my recollection from when such sites started is that they use technology similar to spiders used by web search sites that automatically crawl around vendor sites collecting the necessary information (I'm not sure if they manage some sort of direct ODBC type connection to the databases but it seems like this would be difficult/impossible on a protected system without a working relationship- so they probably generate their own queries)....
Actually, while writing this I decided to do my own query and I came upon this article (here is the link which has a link to a PDF of the article). I don't pretend to understand it all but it does seem to describe how price comparison sites compile their info (given the different naming/syntax from different sites) and seems to have some relevance to how prices might be automatically adjusted...
http://csdl2.computer.org/persagen/DLAbsTo...PIS.1998.706182
I hope no one thinks I'm harping on this topic or anything, I just find it very interesting and worth discussing the possibilities (or impossibilities) as I'm continually fascinated by what is available on the web these days (good and bad). I mean, hey, if these interminable spyware/adware thingies are continually able to infest computers and deliver their snake oil by skirting around Microsoft and anti-spy/adware then it would seem building in automatic price adjustments would be child's play...Maybe not, but it seems like it is something lurking out there in one form or another, present or future and therefore worth knowing about (technical aspects aside).
[EDIT] The link above may require you to purchase the PDF file to get access to the article. My institution apparently has a subscription so I didn't need to buy the article. If anyone is really interested most libraries would probably have access to the article.
QUOTE (chrisbballas @ Aug 24 2005, 01:46 PM)
I know what you mean about the backend, but you're pre-supposing that the only way to link this info is by passing a variable to different variable names. The pricing information isn't always just passed directly from the primary pricing database. An example is that I have periodically saved my carts and been able to call up an old price. On at least 2 occassions I can recall I went ahead and placed the saved cart order and the old price was used, not the current one off the site. That tells me they either have a separate database generated by cart stored in the backend (seems less likely) or they save the pricing data in the cookie. But again, to do this you don't necessarily need a cookie nor do you need access to the pricing database (or its variable names). An installed applet (such as a shopping tool bar) can easily cherry pick the relevant information from displayed pages (just the displayed text, not the backend code or directly from variable name arguments) while you browse.
I don't think you're harping at all, merely interested in a topic. I wasn't pre-supposed anything, and certainly never mentioned the "only" way for things to be one. I am speaking of likelihood.
Now with your shopping cart query -- it isn't unlikely that the data from shopping cards is stored in a seperate database at all. In fact, I have ran web sites with shopping cart software in the past, and for security sake -- that is exactly what I did. Plenty of sites do use cookies for that chore though (I never said otherwise) what I was pointing out is that it is much easier for the originating site to make use of that cookie than for another site to exploit it. Is it possible? Yes. Does it happen? Certainly. Is it legal? No way. Is the process accurate? Debateable, but certainly not to a wide degree.
As far as 3rd party applets go, sure they can do the job -- but again accuracy is called into question because matching item names and descriptions don't GUARANTEE that you actually have matching items... but then again we weren't talking about third party applications or spyware to begin with. We were discussing whether or not other sites could take advantage of the data you've encountered on other sites -- and how easy it is to manipulate that data.
Again, it most assuredly can be done - but not with GREAT accuracy, and not without violating the end user's privacy. For example, if I accept cookies from LumenLab and diyaudio - I am granting both entities a right to store and use information about me -- but I am not granting either group the right to examine the access I have granted their competitor. This means that if a company chooses to undertake this procedure through cookie usage they most likely, but not necessarily, do so illegally.
Quite simply the data can certainly be accessed and used, but you might not be able to use it in the manner you want or with as much detail as you'd like. I could write a simple application that spends all day scanning pages for me, and recording the information it finds into its own database. Then I could make the app run cross-checks comparing the data that it found... but even with this process at the end of the day my data is no more accurate than the descriptions on the page. In a world (especially when purchasing technology) when minute product differences in product desciption or name can render huge performance ones -- this is a big loop hole.
Now, again there are ways this can be accomplished -- but not easily -- and most use questionable ethics at best... I only responded because several people who were screaming conspiracy theory suggested that you merely delete your cookies and clear your cache if you're worried. I wanted to respond to let people know that if you fear a conspiracy you need to do more than clear some cookies and cache because if there truly is an exploit it is probably taking advantage of much more than just your cookies, because that would be a very difficult row to hoe.
I hope that makes sense. I wasn't saying technology doesn't exist to make this happen, only that if it were taking place it probably wasn't happening in the way in which everyone was thinking.
side note Unfortunately, your link did not work for me... it may have been a problem with me trying to access it from work.
Well I did some research on the web. Didn't find any concrete information but from more than one source. It appears the price comparison sites get the information from the retailers. They have an agreement with the retailers and the retailers pump the data to the comparison sites via probably xml files. Then most of the comparison sites charge on a pay per click basis. If you click on the product from the retailier then the retailer gets charged.
QUOTE (brianabs @ Aug 24 2005, 02:21 PM)
Well I did some research on the web. Didn't find any concrete information but from more than one source. It appears the price comparison sites get the information from the retailers. They have an agreement with the retailers and the retailers pump the data to the comparison sites via probably xml files. Then most of the comparison sites charge on a pay per click basis. If you click on the product from the retailier then the retailer gets charged.
That sounds strangely familiar to something I heard someone around here say.
JaceMan,
I'm not at work right now but I'll try and pull some relevant highlights from the article and post later. Basically they used a sort of funnel approach based on grammatical/syntax/organizational concepts to identify the relevant information and then based on the probability of correctness, made a determination about the infromation being gathered. It is really just a criteria based logic approach to rule out what the information can't be and then whatever you're left with must be the info you want. The article even presented more or less the exact scenario you mentioned regarding item #s but also explained how the technology tells the difference between quantity and price, for example. The article indicated it is called jedi and works with HTML but is easier with XML and related such as SGML.
I see your point about access to other site's cookies, but I honestly don't know if I have or have not granted access to other sites cookies. I have only glanced at a couple of TOS statements for any of the sites I visit and then I don't exactly dig closely. Most legal experts say we're crazy for aggreeing to most of the terms we are forced to accept in order to use software and I bet it is similar for web sites but I'm not exactly sure since I don't really read those. Do you? When I install software I just click "accept" and move on without reading all that gobledy gook that a team of lawyers wrote and I'll never understand anyway. So for all I know, I am granting access to cookies. You're right, it could be illegal, but most sites pickup your IP just the same, which can and has been used to identify individuals so I don't think that it is necessarily a privacy issue if it is illegal.
Brianabs,
I'm fairly certain not all price scanning sites have agreements with all their vendor sites. Just as not all search results on search engines have an agreement with the search engine (can you imagine if every site that came up in a search engine resulted in a click through payment if you click on it?). You can register with a search engine but it is not an agreement, it only speeds up the time it takes for your site to be indexed (it takes awhile for the spiders/web crawlers to scan all the servers). Some price scanning sites might only list vendors that have an agreement with them, but I would avoid those sites myself as I wouldn't trust them (much like I pretty much ignore the top 3 results in google). Or at least I would be wary. Good price scanning sites indicate which sites are "preferred merchants" or the like, which means those merchants have agreements with the price scanning site (pricegrabber has "featured merchants" and you have to click a link at the bottom to see the rest of the "non-featured merchants" which I'm almost certain are the ones not paying pricegrabber to be featured).
I wonder if any of you have ever noticed a strange phenomenon that I see happening on google, at least on specific computers I use (not all of them). Everyone knows or should know that the highlighted top 3 links in a google search result page (when it appears) are sponsor links, as are the links down the right side of the page- which means those sites pay to be placed there. But what I find happening is that if my search even remotely resembles a description of a product, my regular search results will pop up for the briefest time and then shift around resulting in the first "regular" search result displaying possible vendor sites for the "matching" product (there is a little shopping bag icon next to this listing), then there will be 2 more listings that were NOT in the top 3 "regular" listings when the results flashed up there initially. Then the rest of the regular listings continue on down from there. Turns out the little shopping bag icon listing is really a link to Froogle while the next 2 vary based on the search. Essentially, it appears something is re-organizing my search results to display a preferred 3 links as the first 3 of my search results. Now I'm pretty diligent about keeping out adware and the like with regular scans/cleaning by 3 of the most popular tools (and regular XP updates). But this behavior continues but really only seems to happen on some computers. The scary part to me is that this appears to be an attempt to pass off sponsored links (or at the very least links with clik-through payments attached) as "regular" search results. This strikes me as very shady. Anyone else notice this?
I'm not at work right now but I'll try and pull some relevant highlights from the article and post later. Basically they used a sort of funnel approach based on grammatical/syntax/organizational concepts to identify the relevant information and then based on the probability of correctness, made a determination about the infromation being gathered. It is really just a criteria based logic approach to rule out what the information can't be and then whatever you're left with must be the info you want. The article even presented more or less the exact scenario you mentioned regarding item #s but also explained how the technology tells the difference between quantity and price, for example. The article indicated it is called jedi and works with HTML but is easier with XML and related such as SGML.
I see your point about access to other site's cookies, but I honestly don't know if I have or have not granted access to other sites cookies. I have only glanced at a couple of TOS statements for any of the sites I visit and then I don't exactly dig closely. Most legal experts say we're crazy for aggreeing to most of the terms we are forced to accept in order to use software and I bet it is similar for web sites but I'm not exactly sure since I don't really read those. Do you? When I install software I just click "accept" and move on without reading all that gobledy gook that a team of lawyers wrote and I'll never understand anyway. So for all I know, I am granting access to cookies. You're right, it could be illegal, but most sites pickup your IP just the same, which can and has been used to identify individuals so I don't think that it is necessarily a privacy issue if it is illegal.
Brianabs,
I'm fairly certain not all price scanning sites have agreements with all their vendor sites. Just as not all search results on search engines have an agreement with the search engine (can you imagine if every site that came up in a search engine resulted in a click through payment if you click on it?). You can register with a search engine but it is not an agreement, it only speeds up the time it takes for your site to be indexed (it takes awhile for the spiders/web crawlers to scan all the servers). Some price scanning sites might only list vendors that have an agreement with them, but I would avoid those sites myself as I wouldn't trust them (much like I pretty much ignore the top 3 results in google). Or at least I would be wary. Good price scanning sites indicate which sites are "preferred merchants" or the like, which means those merchants have agreements with the price scanning site (pricegrabber has "featured merchants" and you have to click a link at the bottom to see the rest of the "non-featured merchants" which I'm almost certain are the ones not paying pricegrabber to be featured).
I wonder if any of you have ever noticed a strange phenomenon that I see happening on google, at least on specific computers I use (not all of them). Everyone knows or should know that the highlighted top 3 links in a google search result page (when it appears) are sponsor links, as are the links down the right side of the page- which means those sites pay to be placed there. But what I find happening is that if my search even remotely resembles a description of a product, my regular search results will pop up for the briefest time and then shift around resulting in the first "regular" search result displaying possible vendor sites for the "matching" product (there is a little shopping bag icon next to this listing), then there will be 2 more listings that were NOT in the top 3 "regular" listings when the results flashed up there initially. Then the rest of the regular listings continue on down from there. Turns out the little shopping bag icon listing is really a link to Froogle while the next 2 vary based on the search. Essentially, it appears something is re-organizing my search results to display a preferred 3 links as the first 3 of my search results. Now I'm pretty diligent about keeping out adware and the like with regular scans/cleaning by 3 of the most popular tools (and regular XP updates). But this behavior continues but really only seems to happen on some computers. The scary part to me is that this appears to be an attempt to pass off sponsored links (or at the very least links with clik-through payments attached) as "regular" search results. This strikes me as very shady. Anyone else notice this?
QUOTE
I am baffled as to why so many people read this like it is some sort of accusation of wrong doing on the part of some vendor. I mean get real, as you drive around town wherever you live you will likely see different gas prices at different BP (or all the Exxon or Gas City or Speedway or whatever) stations around town (some may be the same, others may be different). All BP stations should charge the same price, right? Do you all cry foul and call your state attorney general to register a complaint or do you just find the best price and buy your gas?
I have to agree completely. I have heard that most chain gas stations have a formula on their price. It increases as you move away from the city and towards the highways. I know in my city that is the case.
As far as internet companies, I see no reason they should be forced to sell their product at the same price to everyone. If someone is willing to pay them a higher premium then they should be able to sell it for that.
Of course, from my perspective it seems counterproductive to quote a higher rate than you are willing to sell for on the internet. Unlike gas stations, it takes only a few seconds for people to comparison shop on the internet. I would bet that very, very few people actually buy the first item they see on the net without some type of comparison shopping.
As far as the Google thing is concerned. I know that the highlighted sites at the top, and the ones on the side are definately paid for, but I would be very surprised if the "first 3" are actually paid for. If you look at the prices it quotes, they are almost always some of the lowest you will find (not always, but a lot of the time). I think they probably are just doing a quick search of Froogle (a google owned pricing website) and trying to find the lowest prices they can for the items.
As far as cookies, you can turn them off in Internet Explorer. The licensing people agree to in software is usually just stupid lawyer speak to save their asses in case something happens, but sometimes it is hidden in there that they will collect personal information about you and sell it to people (mostly just happens in free software). The rest of it pretty much doesn't matter because if something serious happens, people will still end up taking the software company to court and most likely winning despite what the agreement says.
As far as cookies, you can turn them off in Internet Explorer. The licensing people agree to in software is usually just stupid lawyer speak to save their asses in case something happens, but sometimes it is hidden in there that they will collect personal information about you and sell it to people (mostly just happens in free software). The rest of it pretty much doesn't matter because if something serious happens, people will still end up taking the software company to court and most likely winning despite what the agreement says.
Just in case anyone is still interested, here are the excerpts from the article I mentioned earlier...
"Abstract
Jedi (Java based Extraction and Dissemination of Information)
is a lightweight tool for the creation of wrappers and
mediators to extract, combine, and reconcile information
from several independent information sources. For wrappers
it uses attributed grammars, which are evaluated with
a fault-tolerant parsing strategy to cope with ambiguous
grammars and irregular sources. For mediation it uses a
simple generic object-model that can be extended with
Java-libraries for specific models such as HTML, XML or
the relational model. This paper describes the architecture
of Jedi, and then focuses on Jedi’s wrapper generator."
"5. Example
In the following we illustrate Jedi’s parsing strategy
along a realistic example taken from a demo located at
“http://www.darmstadt.gmd.de/oasys/projects/jedi/index.html”.
The online demo shows Jedi’s facilities to extract, model
and integrate PSION palmtop computer related product data
from multiple Web sources, and to query and visualize the
extracted data.
Figure 4 presents a screenshot of one source4 which is
highly irregular, mixing images, natural language text,
forms and the relevant product data arbitrarily.
The code fragment depicted below the figure is the complete
Jedi specification needed to define a grammar to extract
article codes, article descriptions and their price from
this source. Other than in the online demo, the extracted
data is not mapped onto an object model, but directly rewritten
as tagged XML source.
The first rule ’Article’ specifies the source structure of
one article ’record’ and assigns appropriate data portions to
the variables ’code’, ’description’ and ’price’. These are reused
in the code block to write tagged XML code to stdout.
The first two assignment productions can safely contain
a trailing “.*” which is automatically left whenever the
more specific productions ’</B>’ or ’<B>’ match.
The third assignment production either requires a specific
pattern which identifies exactly the price or it requires a
more specific end tag to indicate where the price ends, e.g.:
’<B>’price = (’$’ .*) ’</B>’
The second rule ’ArticleList’ describes that the source
structure comprises a sequence of ’Article’ records as described
by the first rule.
As can be seen from the screenshot, this rule does not describe
exactly the source as it contains a lot of additional, irrelevant
information that must be filtered out.
4. located at http://www.mplanet.com/cgi/Web_store/
web_store.cgi?page=psion.html&cart_id=2726135.4533
Figure 4: Snapshot of Source
rule Article is
’<B>’ code = (’MP’ .*)
’</B>’ description = .*
’<B>’ price = (’$’[0-9.]+)
do
println(
“<Article>”,
“<Code>”, code, “</Code>”,
“<Price>”, price, “</Price>”,
“<Description>”, description,
“</Description></Article>”
);
end
end
rule ArticleList is
do
println(“<ArticleList>”);
end
(list += Article())+
do
println(“</ArticleList>”);
end
end
Strict parsing approaches will fail when given such a
grammar. Jedi however is able to proceed meaningfully. Its
fault tolerant interpretation of the ’Article’ rule allows to
skip irrelevant portions of the source by the fallback production
associated to the rule.
Finally, the embedded code blocks are evaluated according
to the grammar interpretation described by the most specific
solution path. Code execution will start with the first
’println’ statement of rule ’ArticleList’, it proceeds with the
assignments and code defined in rule ’Article’ as often as
this rule has matched and ends with executing the second
’println’ statement in rule ’ArticleList’. The portions accepted
by fallbacks do not have any side-effects and thus do
not cause any output to be written."
"The strategy has been implemented as part of the Jedi
tool. It offers the extraction language needed to specify context
free grammars for irregularly structured sources which
can be extended by semantic predicates to disambiguate
rules further. Grammar attribution is used to extract relevant
source portions. A fully fledged scripting language and
built-in data modeling means can be used to create flexible
wrappers which rewrite sources directly or instantiate rich
conceptual models for further querying and processing."
Like I said, I don't understand everything in this article by any means, but I think I get the gist of it. It appears the described technology can essentially interpret the displayed web page and pull the relevant bits of information out of it without directly reading the database values or relying on tags of any sort. The authors do indicate it isn't perfect but the indication is that it works in aggregate to a reasonably high level of confidence. Part of the last line in the paragraph above worries me though, "can be used to create flexible wrappers which rewrite sources directly". This sounds a bit like a bad thing in the wrong hands...but also like it could accomplish the automatic price dropping we've been discussing, I think...
"Abstract
Jedi (Java based Extraction and Dissemination of Information)
is a lightweight tool for the creation of wrappers and
mediators to extract, combine, and reconcile information
from several independent information sources. For wrappers
it uses attributed grammars, which are evaluated with
a fault-tolerant parsing strategy to cope with ambiguous
grammars and irregular sources. For mediation it uses a
simple generic object-model that can be extended with
Java-libraries for specific models such as HTML, XML or
the relational model. This paper describes the architecture
of Jedi, and then focuses on Jedi’s wrapper generator."
"5. Example
In the following we illustrate Jedi’s parsing strategy
along a realistic example taken from a demo located at
“http://www.darmstadt.gmd.de/oasys/projects/jedi/index.html”.
The online demo shows Jedi’s facilities to extract, model
and integrate PSION palmtop computer related product data
from multiple Web sources, and to query and visualize the
extracted data.
Figure 4 presents a screenshot of one source4 which is
highly irregular, mixing images, natural language text,
forms and the relevant product data arbitrarily.
The code fragment depicted below the figure is the complete
Jedi specification needed to define a grammar to extract
article codes, article descriptions and their price from
this source. Other than in the online demo, the extracted
data is not mapped onto an object model, but directly rewritten
as tagged XML source.
The first rule ’Article’ specifies the source structure of
one article ’record’ and assigns appropriate data portions to
the variables ’code’, ’description’ and ’price’. These are reused
in the code block to write tagged XML code to stdout.
The first two assignment productions can safely contain
a trailing “.*” which is automatically left whenever the
more specific productions ’</B>’ or ’<B>’ match.
The third assignment production either requires a specific
pattern which identifies exactly the price or it requires a
more specific end tag to indicate where the price ends, e.g.:
’<B>’price = (’$’ .*) ’</B>’
The second rule ’ArticleList’ describes that the source
structure comprises a sequence of ’Article’ records as described
by the first rule.
As can be seen from the screenshot, this rule does not describe
exactly the source as it contains a lot of additional, irrelevant
information that must be filtered out.
4. located at http://www.mplanet.com/cgi/Web_store/
web_store.cgi?page=psion.html&cart_id=2726135.4533
Figure 4: Snapshot of Source
rule Article is
’<B>’ code = (’MP’ .*)
’</B>’ description = .*
’<B>’ price = (’$’[0-9.]+)
do
println(
“<Article>”,
“<Code>”, code, “</Code>”,
“<Price>”, price, “</Price>”,
“<Description>”, description,
“</Description></Article>”
);
end
end
rule ArticleList is
do
println(“<ArticleList>”);
end
(list += Article())+
do
println(“</ArticleList>”);
end
end
Strict parsing approaches will fail when given such a
grammar. Jedi however is able to proceed meaningfully. Its
fault tolerant interpretation of the ’Article’ rule allows to
skip irrelevant portions of the source by the fallback production
associated to the rule.
Finally, the embedded code blocks are evaluated according
to the grammar interpretation described by the most specific
solution path. Code execution will start with the first
’println’ statement of rule ’ArticleList’, it proceeds with the
assignments and code defined in rule ’Article’ as often as
this rule has matched and ends with executing the second
’println’ statement in rule ’ArticleList’. The portions accepted
by fallbacks do not have any side-effects and thus do
not cause any output to be written."
"The strategy has been implemented as part of the Jedi
tool. It offers the extraction language needed to specify context
free grammars for irregularly structured sources which
can be extended by semantic predicates to disambiguate
rules further. Grammar attribution is used to extract relevant
source portions. A fully fledged scripting language and
built-in data modeling means can be used to create flexible
wrappers which rewrite sources directly or instantiate rich
conceptual models for further querying and processing."
Like I said, I don't understand everything in this article by any means, but I think I get the gist of it. It appears the described technology can essentially interpret the displayed web page and pull the relevant bits of information out of it without directly reading the database values or relying on tags of any sort. The authors do indicate it isn't perfect but the indication is that it works in aggregate to a reasonably high level of confidence. Part of the last line in the paragraph above worries me though, "can be used to create flexible wrappers which rewrite sources directly". This sounds a bit like a bad thing in the wrong hands...but also like it could accomplish the automatic price dropping we've been discussing, I think...
I'm glad that you guy's made something out of this thread.
This stuff is a little beyond me but I thought that I would add that it might be something really simple. Possibly if you have been at a pricewatch type site recently reguardless of the product you were searching, they might quote you their best price.
This stuff is a little beyond me but I thought that I would add that it might be something really simple. Possibly if you have been at a pricewatch type site recently reguardless of the product you were searching, they might quote you their best price.
Good point DeathRay64, it certainly could be that simple (chrisb goes doh and slaps forehead)...
I don't really understand why some people got all bent out of shape about this. Dynamic pricing existed long before flat pricing, and it has persisted throughout the history of commerce. Think of the barter system, which is what people used before money symbolized some arbitrary value.
In any case, it is a well documented fact that Amazon does this, the travel comparison sites definitely do. Who knows what method they are using, but I'm assuming cookies because most people rarely mess with their browser settings.
If the people who doubted retailers rights and motivation for dynamic pricing did a a simple Google search for "dynamic pricing" you'll get about a gajillion results all about this practice and how it is nothing new.
In any case, it is a well documented fact that Amazon does this, the travel comparison sites definitely do. Who knows what method they are using, but I'm assuming cookies because most people rarely mess with their browser settings.
If the people who doubted retailers rights and motivation for dynamic pricing did a a simple Google search for "dynamic pricing" you'll get about a gajillion results all about this practice and how it is nothing new.
For any Australians check out:
http://www.staticice.com.au It gives you the cheapest vendor for a particular item! Great stuff
http://www.staticice.com.au It gives you the cheapest vendor for a particular item! Great stuff
Ok the stuff on the price fixing was interesting but I need some info about good deals. Does anyone know what for example to look for on ebay? Maybe a website that would sell referbished screens? What about a great sale somewhere? As I said I am new looking to build my first projector and dont have a huge pocketbook.
QUOTE (Tedkord4 @ May 12 2006, 02:53 PM)
Ok the stuff on the price fixing was interesting but I need some info about good deals. Does anyone know what for example to look for on ebay? Maybe a website that would sell referbished screens? What about a great sale somewhere? As I said I am new looking to build my first projector and dont have a huge pocketbook.
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