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Full Version: My DIY high gain screen samples
Lumenlab > Audio Video Sciences > Home Theater > Home Theater Screens
pitman2
Ok heres the deal. I ordered samples from a few screen manufacturers and was very dissapointed with the fact that my flat white wall was just as good as their stuff. Any 'matte' product with a gain of about 1 blended into my wall perfectly. 'High Contrast' stuff was great for black levels. But it threw the colors off and whites looked grey. 'High Gain' stuff made the colors vibrant and the image bright, but ultimately the blacks suffer. That is the conundrum. Well, I have NOT solved the problem. tongue.gif . But while looking at the high gain samples sent to me, I decided that I would try to reproduce their results. Here is what I have done.
On the top left is a white base with 'ultrafine micro beads'. They can be found at Penny Wise Art Supplies. They don't list the size of the ultra fine microbeads but I believe them to be approximatley 300 microns or .3 mm. I will refer to the ultra fine micro beads as UFMB from here on. I'm lazy. The beads are adhered to the sample with some double stick tape that a friend of mine gave me. So I don't know what kind it is. To the right of that is the same white base, and same adhesive. But this one uses 'micromarbles' that I found a Michael's. I believe them to be about 1mm in dia. but they are not very uniform.
The next row, first on the left, is on an aluminum paint base using the UFMB and adhered with the penny wise arts reccomended o'so sticky sheet. Next is the same but instead I used double stick tape to adhere the UFMBs. Next is the Micro Marbles adhered with double stick tape. And on the right is UFMB with o'so sticky sheet on a white base.
The last row has a Da-Lite glass beaded screen sample with a recomended maximum viewing angle of 30 degrees and a gain of 2.5. Next is an old peice of sheet rock with several coats of aluminum spraypaint (I didn't prime it first). Then finaly there is the Da-lite high power sample with a max viewing angle 30 degrees, and a gain of 2.8.

Without then with flash.
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Stat tuned for screen shots.
Aruna
I look forward to seeing your results!
scubasteve2365
Pit .... hope you got a good camera .... This is good research that hasnt really been done ..... Look foward to what you give us ...
pitman2
Well here are the results. I am of course using 'Nemo' and 'Leeloo' as an example. I couldn't find the manual for the camera so I had to use the automatic function, which means that all of the exposures are different from each other, and that some of the darker scenes are brighter that normal. But you get the idea of the relative brightness. Fist I'll post the pics and then I'll give my thoughts. All of the following shots are taken at approximately 15 degrees off axis.

Here are a couple of shots from Nemo.
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pitman2
Next.
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pitman2
...
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pitman2
Fifth Element...
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pitman2
Here I show Leeloo wub.gif at approximately 15 degrees off axis.
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pitman2
Leeloo at approximately 30 degrees off axis.
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pitman2
Leeloo at about 44 degrees off axis.
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I will use acronyms from this glossary because I am lazy tongue.gif :
UFMB: Ultra Fine Micro Beads
MM: Micro Marbles
OSSS: O'so Sticky Sheet
DST: Double Sided Tape

Conclusions. The camera is NOT forgiving!
I didn't like the samples with the OSSS because in person it realy soaked up the light. Although, admitedly, it was still brighter than the wall. The samples with the MM were too grainy, as you can see in the pics. The samples with the DST transfered light well but the UFMB and MM didn't adhere as well as the OSSS. The aluminum sample (no beads) didn't look as bad in person. It had the best viewing cone. Some of the samples are hard to read from the pics because they look too bright....Sorry, my bad.

NOTE. After I took these photos I painted my wall with aluminum paint. I don't realy like it. It looks cool when I'm not using it, but when the PJ is on I can see every little difference in surface texture on the wall that I never noticed before. I suppose that it would be better if I had prepared the wall knowing that going in, but whatever. Another thing that I don't like about the Aluminum wall, is that the screen brightness changes depending on where I sit. Oh, well. I can always go back to ceiling paint if I feel like it.
pitman2
QUOTE
Another thing that I don't like about the Aluminum wall, is that the screen brightness changes depending on where I sit.


By that I mean if I sit on the left side of the projector the left side of the image looks brighter than the right side and vice versa.
Garry
Interesting study results.
Thanks for sharing your information.

P.S. I have just bought the guide, and now in the process of reading all the posts, and I'm thoroughly getting confused with so much information available,,,, AND LOVING IT.

Garry
( A Happy Vegimite, Melbourne Australia)
Lucas in Alaska
I really like the Ultra Fine Micro Beads but I do notice the black ends up more a grey.

BUT

I'm just going to go with the blackout cloth.

Thanks for sharing and I will be keeping up with your progress.

Lucas
pitman2
I would just like to add that I tried the microbeads on a black surface. Didn't work.
tony
yep, for the retro reflective glass beads to work, you need to apply them to a reflective
surface white-silver, with a clear binder.

i have also tried using microshperes on white/silver surfaces. they do work well, but you need
a very fine diameter bead with high index for the best image. also, hard as heck to apply.

i have been living with a dalite highpower 8' screen for a couple months. what can i say,
killer material if you can place your projector and yourself right on axis. with a gain up
to 2.8. the screen is also super smooth, no grain, no hotspotting etc. not a bad deal when
you can by a 8" 4:3 screen for $200 and rip the material out if need be. you won't able
to make a screen as nice as this with the larger microspheres. but, if you need to walk
around, stand up, wide viewing cone, then it is probably not the way to go. but then there
is no magic high gain material with unlimited viewing cone. not to put you
off of making a DIY high gain screen, i tried myself, but many folks like this HP material.
check out the AVS forums for chat on this stuff.

i had good luck with the aluminum paints on 2'x4' sample boards. i liked the sliver/gray
on blacks. found a light overspray dust coat put just the right amount of texture on the
surface. it does hotspot. i could see doing a whole wall this way. your right, you need
a very good surface
for the sliver, but you should also have one for just using normal ultra bright white. just
get some of those little sponge sized throwaway block sanders, put a skim coat on the
wall and you will be all set.

thanks for sharing your findings and hard work. it take alot of trial n error to find
something that works well.
pagercam
any chance of you moving the PJ closer to the screen??? The samples are pretty small as part of the image so its hard for others to see if the change is the material or the local image. I'm thinking that the camera is trying to ballance the entire image so all the small patches will look brighter/too bright relative to the whole. Half the screen one way and the other half the other is the best overall comparison but I understand that getting samples or painting a wall is a lot of effort without any guarenteed benifit. The few tests that I've seen here or on AVS all seem to find something that they think will work so they go ahead and do the whole wall only to be disapointed, everyone seems to come back to white paint or BO cloth. Maybe that is about as good as its ever going to get???
pitman2
QUOTE
any chance of you moving the PJ closer to the screen???


I'll probably make up some larger samples in the next week or two, so that should help. What I was trying to achieve through this was to see if I could replicate the gain that the dalite high power or glass beaded screen materials reached. Taking pictures was an after thought.
pagercam
QUOTE (pitman2 @ May 28 2005, 02:09 PM)
QUOTE
any chance of you moving the PJ closer to the screen???


I'll probably make up some larger samples in the next week or two, so that should help. What I was trying to achieve through this was to see if I could replicate the gain that the dalite high power or glass beaded screen materials reached. Taking pictures was an after thought.
*


That would help a lot I look forward to your results. The screen is such an important part of our systems but its probably the hardest to test/figure out and there are plenty of wild guesses and snake oil vendors out there.
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