Group Buy #3

Group Buy #3 has started

I am taking orders from right now up until March 17th (about 2 1/2 weeks)

Go to http://members.cox.net/minoten to read about the kit and place your order, the prices have not changed.

There was an issue with 480p through Component input (Sync-On-Green via VGA) with the first group buy, the manufacturer has fixed this problem and the new controllers for the second group buy will support 480p. Please note that in order for the controller manufacturers to fix this problem, they were forced to disable 640x480@60hz VGA Input.

For International Buyers:
- You will NEED a UPS/Fedex account to order this kit, your account will be charged when I ship your items.
- You will NEED to select "wire transfer" in order to send payment. If you wish to use another form of payment, please send me an e-mail.

For those of you who have sent me emails in the past few days, please be patient. I have been working hard and will answer your emails as soon as I find time! (soon)

As always, shoot me an e-mail if you have any questions that are not answered on the website.
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GROUP BUY #1 RECAP

So the first group buy is over, I have shipped out 20 packages, there are only 2 left to be shipped (Once the buyer confirms their address)
It took 1 1/2 months, not long at all. I learned alot about all of the logistics, among other things. I believe if I run another group buy I could cut the time down to 1 month!
There were 22 people people involved in this group buy, everyone had different uses, some were companies looking for a High Resolution Small footprint display to use around their office. While others simply wanted a small desktop LCD with a small footprint and lots of functions. But in general those who ordered kits wanted a projector.
I really enjoyed organizing and running this group buy, I am very excited to see everyones reaction when they receive their kits.
I appreciate all of you trusting me, I understand that what these kits cost quite a bit. In return I tried to be as professional as I could and tried to run this
like a business.

Useful Files

Controller User Guide - Created by the controller manufacturer
Controller Setup Guide - Created by Minoten (Keith)

Feedback

So now it comes time for some buyer-feedback, good or bad.
If you bought a kit or just a controller from me, please post some feedback on the products you received and how they are working for you.
If you encounter problems with your kit, you can post here and I am sure others who have the kit would be more than willing to assist you, as would I. I would also like to see some posts about the controller board compatibility with other WUXGA (or non?) LCD Panels.
I am hoping that everyone enjoys their kits, and provides some positive feedback and encourages others to buy one. This would in turn make a second group buy much more likely.
This can also be an area for the WUXGA kit buyers to discuss how they mount their components, or how they make a faceplate for the OSD Board etc...

Images

LCD Boxes on the left, Controller Boxes on the right.


Packaging Process for Each Kit



Note: This thread is designed to be for people who ordered WUXGA Kits, or people who have questions for those with the kits. I will be moderating this thread and I will delete all messages I feel are not productive or on topic.

My Projector

18" FL Triplet pulled off an opaque projector
400W Ushio
400W Blueline Electronic Ballast
(2) 330mm Fresnels
Lexan
Ikea Napkin Holder
2 Thermaltake SilentCat 90mm fans (50cfm with 21db!)

In order to get these fresnels to work with these optics, I had to keep them unsplit.
I also had to move my light source to within 7" of the fresnel, while the fresnel focal point was 13".
While this would effectively allow me to use the triplet lens, I believe I am losing a lot of light in the process. Because the bulb is not anywhere near the fresnels known focal point, I believe this may result in a loss of light, or at least around the edges, more than usual.
I have heard that someone is manufacturing a better fresnel lens that will fit these big triplets better, I will most likely buy a set of those when they come out. This will allow me to get a more even distribution of light, and a brighter picture. Perhaps then I can switch to the UHP 250W setup 18wheeler is selling.

Hello

Well I bought a 15.4" WUXGA Lcd panel made by Toshiba Model LTD154EZ0D a few months back off Ebay for around $30 hoping that i would run accross a controller for it so i could use it in a projector. When i saw this group buy i jumped on the oppurtunity to purchase one of the controllers. I knew it would be a gamble since the controller was never tested nor designed for the model LCD i had, but i decided to try it anyhow.

I received my controller board earlier today and began putting it together when i got off work. The first thing i noticed was that one of the plastic seperators on the controller boards DVI connector was bent and half broke. Luckily i was able to bend it back in place enough so that the DVI cable would fit, although i am not too happy about that.

When i initially powered up the LCD i was surprized to see that the on screen display worked flawlessly. when i saw that i was very optimistic that it would work correctly with my model LCD panel.

My first attempt to hook it to my PC was by using the 15 pin Analog RGB connection. It worked, but the results were similar to that of my 32" HDTV which i use as my primary monitor on my desktop pc, the picture was not crisp and it was very difficult to get it to lock in and scale properly. But from my previous experience this was expected especially at higher resolutions.

Luckily i have a rather new video card with a DVI connection. When i connceted it to the controller board i was amazed by the clarity and crispness of the picture. I used the nokia monitor test program to check out the Used LCD and was very happy to find zero dead pixels and no blemishes whatsoever.

Here is another picture.

JMD,

I am sorry about your DVI-D Connector, I did not check each controller as they say they must pass QC. I am glad you were able to get it working.

This is great news, the controller board works with other manufacturers! I had anticipated it to, but I could not gurantee it, I am glad we have some rock solid evidence now.

If you are using a VGA connector, sometimes you have to use auto-adjust to get the picture to automatically fit on the screen, and adjust the scaling correctly. Once I had mine auto adjusted, it was hard for me to tell the difference between DVI-D and VGA. The auto-adjust buttons are within the OSD menu, try messing with it a few times and it will come around.

You will have to let us know how the Toshiba strips, and if it has any burn-in problems as were reported a couple years back. Either way, WUXGA is beautiful!

I am glad to hear you are satisfied with the controller, hopefully everyone else is too!

Hello Again,

All in all i am very pleased with the controller board, after all it does exactly what it is intended to do. Although the remote is a little confusing and seems not to be designed properly for its purpose and some of the buttons are a little confusing (fastforward, next track, pause buttons as if it were inteded for dvd player). As for analog vga connection i could never get it to work properly or consistently with this controller nor the controller within my Olevia 32" HDTV and i see no reason to use it since i have an available DVI conection. Besides it seems strange to convert a digital signal to analog just to convert it back to digital again and just in the conversion alone you will loose quality.

Now i just cant wait to get this thing inside a projector to see what it looks like as a BIG screen. The screen as it is is way to small for me to use as a normal monitor, the text is to dificult to read without straining my eyes but graphics are very pleasing to look at with the crisp bright and vibrant colors.

Speaking of projectors does anyone know where i might be able to find a good lens kit for this LCD, i dont want any cut corners or lost pixels like with my standard LL kit and 15" 4:3 screen?

Well Guys and Gals,

With much thanks to minoten, I recieved my controller board in the mail and have just gotten around to firing it up. The summary so far:

VGA input from my comp looks great!



However, when trying to display progressive signals using a Component -> VGA adapter, I have an odd green tone across the screen.
For example, below is a screen shot of my Gamecube in progressive mode (480p). As I recall, minoten had problems like this when trying to get an XBOX to display at 480p as well.



For comparison, here is the same screen when using a standard interlaced signal.



I am also seeing the same effect on my standalone DVD player when trying to display under progressive (also 480p)...
I'd really like to get some feedback from the other group-buyers to see if they are seeing similar results with 480p signals.

Verboten-

I did have issues with 480p on my xbox, it creates the same green hue of a screen that you are getting. But when I switched my xbox to 720p,1080i,or 480i it performed flawlessly. I read about it on the internet and I was told it was because the XBOX does not have Sync-on-green compliant inputs. I never found a way to get the 480p to work, they have transcoders as I understand but they are quiet a few bucks.

I tested my controller when I first received it on a Coby DVD Player in progressive mode, it worked great and I didn't have any green hue. Let me go make sure again.

Update- I just tried my Coby-515 DVD Player again, it works great in YUV mode (480i I think) but when I switch to YPbPr I experience a screen with green static. You can check your current resolution if you open up the OSD Menu, have VGA highlighted, then push down. For YUV it shows 720x240@59hz, I think thats 720x480 interlaced. Then when It is at 480p or 640x480@59hz, it has the problem. But I specifically remember it being on 480p at 640x480@59hz and working perfectly, I even posted pictures. I will do some more investigating, I hope it is just an error on my part, if not maybe the controller manufacturer can fix it with a new firmware.

When you say you are using a component to vga adapter, is it simply a $5 cord or is it a transcoder?

I have heard of people using a single small microchip and a capacitor or two over at the xbox forums to get rid of the green hue on the screen. I will have to look into this if other people have the same problems. Hopefully we get some more feedback over the weekend, I believe a total of 5 whole kits were delivered yesterday.


JMD - The remote was not specially designed or anything, you kind of have to just mess around with the buttons and learn what they do. Took me about a week and now I know what each button does
I got my larger fresnels at DIYProjectorCompany, you can use an 80mm lens, or use an 18" FL one off an old opaque projector like I had used (good for long throw, not perfect around corners, but will look great for TV viewing)

It came! I fired it up this morning; directions were great, and very helpful.

I'm so psyched.

Thanks so much for pulling this together.

I thought I remembered you writing up a stripping guide? Could you post a pointer?

thanks

dmc_lat47,

I am glad you are excited, its all worth it to hear everyone so excited over an LCD Panel

As for the stripping guide, I wrote down some of the basic pointers when I stripped my LCD a few months ago, and I took some pictures.

I can throw a "stripping guide" together, but it won't be totally complete, as I tried a lot of different stuff before I got it open, so I am a little confused when I think back. I have some pictures I will try to get up this weekend.

I will tell you that this LCD panel was easily stripped, and that theres no FCC's on this board, there is a thin layer of clear material with some built in wires on the side of the panel, but it is flexible and is easy to work with. THIS PANEL is very durable. It has been running in my projector at temperatures up to 105 degrees and is showing no sign of wear, it is ment to be in a laptop so I believe they are much more durable than normal desk LCD's. The fcc's are not super fragile either, I stretched them around a bit and they werent stiff or brittle or anything. But still be very careful.

Some of the key pointers to stripping it would be...
-Take off the tape on the bottom and top of the LCD, once you remove the bottom Tape you should be able to work the CFL tube out.
-Once the top tape is off, there should be a few (2?) screws holding the LCD electronic board in, unscrew those.
-Now I believe there are screws on the side of the LCD panel, along with clips, you have to push the clips in and unscrew the screws to get the back paneling off.
-I remember having to mess with the side clear electronics, but be very careful and make sure you dont severe any connections in the clear electronic sheet.
-Once the back paneling is loose, you lift the electronic board up and then slide the paneling out.
-I then used a dremel and cut out a hole for the LCD to shine through, then put the plastic paneling back on and screwed it in (with the electronic board hanging out).
-Then I used the 4 existing mounting screws on the LCD to attach them to a piece of wood with a hole in the middle

Thats all I have for now, I will be fairly busy today but I will try to at least get some pictures up. But I believe if you guys just take your time and dont man handle anything you wont have an issues taking it apart.

I am using a raw cable to patch in the Y/Pb/Pr signals without the use of a transcoder.

verb0ten,

I have a couple different avenues I am going to explore to see if this can be resolved, I knew 480p did not work on the X-Box but I had no idea it did not work across the board. This is an issue that needs to be resolved or at least explained, the manufacturer said they support it. I'll have an answer for you guys in the next few days, until then hang in there please.

verb0ten,

from the first picture of your PC's desktop it looks like you are having the same results i did when using analog vga, that is the entire screen is not filled, some pixels look to be unused and the picture is not centered properly. If that is the case then if you look very closely at text you will notice it is distorted. I dont nessicarily blame this controller for that as i get the same results with my 32" LCD HDTV when using analog vga. Again, the DVI-D connection is absolutely beautiful everytime no matter what resolution is used and i personally dont plan on using analog vga cause it is more of a hassle especially when video modes are changed frequently.

JMD,

I have had problems with it picking up thecorrect VGA signal, but I found if I boot my CPU into the correct resolution I want to use that the controller automatically picks up the signal, or I believe if you set the screen ratio to 1:1 and then fill and then redo the auto fill it works fine.


Verb0ten,

About the sync-on-green green tint issues, I have contacted the manufacturer, and I have spoken with someone who personally programs for the genesis gm1601 chip we are using. He has told me that this is not a hardware limitation of the board, but rather a firmware issue or something even more minor than that. The company has told me they are now discussing and looking into the issue and hopefully they can get it resolved in something as simple as a small firmware upgrade.



Hopefully I receive some more feedback on the controller over the next week or so, perhaps there are other changes that could be made in the firmware to make it more user friendly. Nothing ever goes perfectly, but at least we are working with some great people who really take the time to make sure their customers are happy.

I received my panel and controller today. I spent a few minutes with it at work and ran dual displays with my laptop via vga. I then hooked up my Mac Mini and didn't get any signal coming through on DVI. I may just need to adjust my resolution on the mac and try again.

Anyway, the picture looks good and I look forward to working with it in the coming months. Unfortunately, I can't begin the project until mid/late August now due to a money situation, but I'll give the panel a work out with various sources until then to make sure everything is good. Maybe there will be a pro lense solution I can use by then.

minoten,

Thanks for all the feedback. I really appreciate your responsiveness to any issues with the controller!

This is a great offer. I hope there is a group buy in europe soon?

Thanks
Brutuz

do we know what the power requirements are for the lcd and the controllers?
i was looking at the power brick; says it can source 16A!

That seems like a lot; i was wondering if maybe I could drive my 12 v fans off it as well?

Anyone thinking along those lines?

No I can't say I was

I do not know the power requirements, but I will request that information for you. It will probably be helpful to know when people are using fuses in their circuits.

The power supply you guys received is quite different than the one I received in my test kit. Yours includes a fan and has a nice heatsink on it, but it is a bit bigger than mine. I can tell you that there are quite a few spare amps on that power supply.

Here is what mine says:



I would not recommend taking the power supply apart though, as you just spent some money on your kit and I would hate for it to be ruined

For my fans I use an old computer power supply, go to a used computer place and grab a small computer power supply for like $5 and your set!



About the 480P issues, the manufacturer has informed me that they are getting a test panel next monday and will test the issues we have with the controller at that time. Besides the 480P, is there anything else I need to tell them is not working correctly? Any problems?


Lastly, I have been receiving quite a few emails lately from people asking about a second group buy. I really enjoyed doing the first one, and I hope to do a second, so if your interested please visit my website at http://members.cox.net/minoten and shoot me an email and I will put you on a list. I can assure you that the next group buy will go much quicker than this one, as I have worked quite a few kinks out of the system!

Minoten, Thanks again for making this group buy happen. I received my panel from UPS today. I hooked everything up and tested it out when I got home from work. I was amazed at how easy everything was to hook up. The only "gotcha" as far as I can tell is the mating force needed for the power supply connecter. I imagine it could be real easy to break that thing off the board if your not careful, but everything else was a breeze. Once everything was together the unit fired right up with no problems and no dead pixels (whew!).

I'm kind of waiting right now on building my projector to see how things pan out with pro lens. I'm going to give it another few weeks but if Brain doesn't work the bugs out soon I'll probably go ahead with diy's 135mm triplet.

Thanks again, -Chuck

I received my kit today, and it looks awesome. I have tried it hooked up to two computers so far. I have a VGA to component cable on the way to test my PS2. I tried both VGA & DVI, and they both worked great. I've got some tweaking to do to get the VGA looking better. I have noticed that the chips on the controller board get very hot during operation. Is this a consern?
Here are my findings with DVI at 1920x1200.
ATI 8500 worked fine with the reduced blanking option checked in the CCC
Nvidia 6600GT worked only after extensive tweaking to the Advanced Timings Tab:

Horizontal Pixels:
Front porch: 48
Back porch: 80
Sync polarity: +
Sync width: 32
Active pixels: 1920

Verical lines:
Front porch: 3
Back porch: 26
Sync polarity: -
Sync width: 6
Refresh rate: 60.000 Hz
Active pixels: 1200

All in all I'm very impressed with the kit. Thanks for everything Minoten!

I have nvidia 6800 series and using DVI i have never had to tweak any settings, it always locks in perfect at any resolution, but i have found Analog VGA is almost impossible to get it to work properly, analog VGA will work but the picture is badly distorted and rarely fills the entire screen. But it seems others have had no problem with Analog VGA and are very happy with it so it just might be something i am doing wrong.

This display sells for $200 all over the place.
This discovery makes a HD 1080i projector MUCH cheaper.

Thanks,
Sammual

I received my component to vga cable today, and I hooked my PS2 up to the controller. I tested out Gran Turismo 4 at 480i Fill, 480p Fill, and 1080i 1:1. At 480p I experienced the same green tint as others, and 1080i 1:1 didn't look much different than 480i Fill, but that might be limitations of the PS2 or GT4.

I still haven't had success in getting the mac mini to sync with the lcd though dvi. Unfortunately, I don't have any other computer with dvi output to test it. The mac mini works fine via dvi to a Dell 1702FP display. I've tried the Detect Display option in the OS X preferences without any luck. I will probably end up taking it to a friends house in order to try it out, but before I do, are there any suggestions?

Just a bit more info...
When the cable is connected, the input selection menu shows DVI (w/ IGP directly underneath). If the cable isn't plugged in it just shows DVI. It also detects when the dvi cable is unplugged.

I recieved my kit on monday, I just hooked it up and tested it. It was easy to get everything working I only tested VGA and DVI with my PC as the source so far. They both look great although the VGA doesn't fit perfectly, I haven't bothered to play with the settings yet. The DVI was perfect and since I plan to use that connection primarily I am not too worried about the VGA settings.

Now for all the questions, What options are out there regarding optics ?
So far I was just planning on using the 15.5" fresnels with 330/220 focal distance along with the standard triplet from lumenlab.

Second when running a 480i signal from a video game console through the component video to vga was there any noticeable delay from deinterlacing/scaling like some people have experienced with DLP/LCD sets because of the fixed native resolution ? I was planning on testing this myself but I have not purchased a Component to VGA cable yet. Its not a major issue because it could be solved with other hardware like the XRGB-2+.

Third, what plans do other WUXGA kit buyers have for the scaling of video sources ? I was thinking of using a DVDO Iscan HD or a Lumagen VisionHDP and setup the output resolution to output to 1920x1200. I am still not sure how this will all work or if it is possible, from the manuals it looks to be but I haven't read about anyone actually doing it.

Lastly I would like to thank minoten for setting up this group buy. I am very happy with the WUXGA kit.

I played a whole game of NCAA 2006 on my PS2 using component to vga at 480i, and I didn't notice any delay or lag, but I wasn't really looking for it. If there was a delay I think I would have noticed it.

I also got the 15.5" fresnels. I'm leaning towards using them in an unsplit configuration, to improve focus, and using lens-shift instead of keystoning to throw the projection off-center. My goal is a small (45"), short-throw image. This is my first projector. so it's taking me a while to figure it out!

Yes, definitely! Thanks Minoten!

"My goal is a small (45"), short-throw image."

Don't have much room space?

If your only looking for a 45 inch image you might try some form of rear projection. With an image size that small the light would be very powerfull and you may be able to get a nice bright image even on rear projection, that will give you 0 focus issues.

Can y'all comment please on the color depth since the display is only 18-bit color (vs. 32-bit of true-color)? Can anyone give pics or subjective comments doing an A/B comparison with a true-color display - even if it's just the panel not yet installed in a PJ?

Also, can someone comment on response times affecting a fast-paced game like an FPS?

Really the color is awesome. The technicality is subjective. It is the only LCD thus far I have been able too get looking as beautiful as my Mac display. I can litereally tune to the exact color and response of my Mac

People have had these displays since July 8th. Today is August 1st, how come we haven't seen the WUXGA PJ results yet???

They turned out to have Japanese/Chinese curse which only gave the Buyer 7 days (like "the ring") to buy 1 more panel for another lumenlab member (member - Dingle to be specific) or else they would die a horrible death

.... no one did buy another panel for me....do they all died

as i remember, somebody told he have done some PJ (on this!?), but where is result?

... working on it!!

Does anyone know what the specs for the Toshiba LTD154EZ0D lcd are?

I found some specs for the 0S model here, still cant find the 0D model....

http://tmd-product.tmdisplay.com/index_e.cfm

hello all!

anyone know if the power connector to that controller board is a standard one? doesn't look familiar to me.

i'mthinking of building something smaller than the brick, as i'm running out of room inside my haas-style case.

re: my pj, i've gotten pretty far. the case is mostly done, and have every thing in hand. now i'm playing around with how to mount it all in the box.

when i get time i'll start a log and post some pics.

David

Sorry for the lack of updates, I have been in and out of town for the past month.

I spoke with the controller manufacturer, and they have been debugging the G2A firmware for the past few weeks, they apparently fixed a PiP Reboot issue, but have yet to solve the 480p issue. They assured me they will continue to work on it, I have asked them how long they estimate it will take before they have it fixed. Either way I will keep you all up to date.

I have received a LOT of inquiries about a second group buy, and I would like to let you all know that I DO plan on doing another group buy. This next one should have a much quicker turn around than the first. The reason I have yet to start the group buy is because of the 480p problem (480p via component (sync-on-green) displays a green picture).

I feel that this (480p) is a rather substantial problem and it should be fixed before I can distribute these kits to more people. But perhaps I am over estimating how big of a problem this is to people.

If this 480p is not going to be an issue, I could push through with the second group buy. Or we could wait a few weeks (I hope) before it is fixed and then place our orders.

Give me some feedback, I am open to suggestions and I would love to get this second group buy going!

That’s great news minoten i was concerned i would not get a controller for my panel.

Would it be possible to ask the manufacturer if they have a front plate for the controller board? This would make it easy to fit into the projector housing and all connectors would be available at the side then there would be no need for cables inside.

I heard that stripping the Sharp WUXGA LCD is qute easy. If anyone has any pictures please post them.

Sharp makes a WUXGA LCD monitor? I couldn't find it on their website.

They are not talking about a LCD monitor, only the LCD with backlight. Normally these are used in laptops, however Minoten has gotten just the LCD panels, and also a programmed controller to use the panel w/o having it installed in a laptop.

Yes a front plate would be awesome