Optoma HD20
Contrast 4,000:1
Lumens 1700
Weight 2.9 kg
Resolution 1920x1080
Aspect Ratio 16:9 (HD)
Technology DLP
Color Wheel 4x speed
Color Wheel 6 segments
Lens 1.2x manual
Lens Shift No
Lamp Life 3000 Hrs
4000 (eco)
http://asia.optoma.com/product/ProductDeta...tegory=SG9tZQ==
Vivitek H1080FD
Contrast 5,000:1
Lumens 1800
Weight 2.6 kg
Resolution 1920x1080
Aspect Ratio 16:9 (HD)
Technology DLP
Color Wheel 3x speed
Color Wheel 6 segments
Lens 1.2x manual
Lens Shift No
Lamp Life 3000 Hrs (Standard)
http://www.vivitekusa.com/v_display_conten...subcategory_id=
BenQ W1000
Contrast 3000:1
Lumens 2000
Weight 3.4 kg
Resolution 1920x1080
Aspect Ratio 16:9 (HD)
Technology DLP
Color Wheel 4x speed
Color Wheel 6 segments
Lens 1.2x manual
Lens Shift No
Lamp Life 2000 Hrs
3000 (eco)
http://www.benq.com/products/Projector/?product=1574
what do you think?
Full Version: these could kill our diy 1080p projectors
Well building a Diy projector hasn't been about the cost for over 2 years now. It has been cheaper to buy a commercial for at least the last 2 years.
It's about the joy and fun of DIY.
And for some the $400 bulbs are still a major issue.
It's about the joy and fun of DIY.
And for some the $400 bulbs are still a major issue.
Pretty much what Jonjandran said
Thought I'd add that I did however see the HD20 the other day at an expo, and I was slightly underwhelmed by the brightness (The Vivitek is supposed to be fairly brighter when actual measurements were made in a review at projectorcentral.com). I saw three of them running at the show
One was being shown on a "Black Crystal Screen that cost about $5500" that was apparently meant to be designed for areas with high ambient lighting. All I can say is that the projection screen made the image look DARK and not good at all. A 3500 or 4000 lumen projector around the corner being used for a presentation was a ton brighter and projecting about double the size. It was like comparing the sun to the moon.
The other projector was being used to show Night at the Museum. The booth was there to actually show off an interactive sofa and sound system that vibrates and moves along with the movie (the projector was being borrowed from Optoma guys). As for the image, even though the they tried covering up to block out the ambient light, it looked washed out.
Lastly, at the Optoma booth itself, they had one running in a dark tent, so no ambient light to wash the image. It looked very good, but I'll be honest in saying that my DIY also looks just as good in a dark room (except for the vignetting, commercial is pretty much perfect to the eye all round). So don't get me wrong, the image quality is as good as it gets. As for brightness, I personally think you'll need a light controlled room for an HD20, which is what you'd need for a DIY 1080p as well.
That being said, DIY 1080p still holds its own fairly well. Perhaps a 575w upgrade should give it the lumen boost needed
Thought I'd add that I did however see the HD20 the other day at an expo, and I was slightly underwhelmed by the brightness (The Vivitek is supposed to be fairly brighter when actual measurements were made in a review at projectorcentral.com). I saw three of them running at the show
One was being shown on a "Black Crystal Screen that cost about $5500" that was apparently meant to be designed for areas with high ambient lighting. All I can say is that the projection screen made the image look DARK and not good at all. A 3500 or 4000 lumen projector around the corner being used for a presentation was a ton brighter and projecting about double the size. It was like comparing the sun to the moon.
The other projector was being used to show Night at the Museum. The booth was there to actually show off an interactive sofa and sound system that vibrates and moves along with the movie (the projector was being borrowed from Optoma guys). As for the image, even though the they tried covering up to block out the ambient light, it looked washed out.
Lastly, at the Optoma booth itself, they had one running in a dark tent, so no ambient light to wash the image. It looked very good, but I'll be honest in saying that my DIY also looks just as good in a dark room (except for the vignetting, commercial is pretty much perfect to the eye all round). So don't get me wrong, the image quality is as good as it gets. As for brightness, I personally think you'll need a light controlled room for an HD20, which is what you'd need for a DIY 1080p as well.
That being said, DIY 1080p still holds its own fairly well. Perhaps a 575w upgrade should give it the lumen boost needed
Me too!
Heh. I like that I did it myself. The cool factor, y'know? I also like the $50 lamps which last 20,000 hours. Not having to worry about lamp life is a big draw for me.
Still, I'm not likely to BUY a 1080p projector for quite some time.
Heh. I like that I did it myself. The cool factor, y'know? I also like the $50 lamps which last 20,000 hours. Not having to worry about lamp life is a big draw for me.
Still, I'm not likely to BUY a 1080p projector for quite some time.
They are cheap because of one parameter - they are all single-chip DLP. Single-chip DLP ir peace of crap if you want good image.
three-color DLP projector will cost 3x much more
.. as it expected and is in real market (~4000$ with good image quality)
three-color DLP projector will cost 3x much more
.. as it expected and is in real market (~4000$ with good image quality)
50? Try 25 to 35 here in the states!
Not to mention that if you really watch the trading post like a blood hound, you can pick up used 15.4 inch panels for a fraction of what you'd pay for new, which makes DIY even more practical and entertaining....
Besides, these commercials are adequate... you're still going to pay over 2000 for a good one....
Not to mention that if you really watch the trading post like a blood hound, you can pick up used 15.4 inch panels for a fraction of what you'd pay for new, which makes DIY even more practical and entertaining....
Besides, these commercials are adequate... you're still going to pay over 2000 for a good one....
Well, I simply went out and bought a regular projector, for about £350. It's LCD, very good, and does HD.
I did think about making one myself, but in the end all I made was the ultra-low drop ceiling mount.
I didn't go for a wheel filter one because I use it for the Wii, and didn't want the motion blur.
However, it was a shot in the dark - I travel a huge range every week, yet could not find one shop that had even one projector on display! Even the places that claimed they did weren't interested in a budget projector anyway, quoting upwards of £2000!
I did think about making one myself, but in the end all I made was the ultra-low drop ceiling mount.
I didn't go for a wheel filter one because I use it for the Wii, and didn't want the motion blur.
However, it was a shot in the dark - I travel a huge range every week, yet could not find one shop that had even one projector on display! Even the places that claimed they did weren't interested in a budget projector anyway, quoting upwards of £2000!
QUOTE (Delfins @ Nov 4 2009, 09:44 AM) 
They are cheap because of one parameter - they are all single-chip DLP. Single-chip DLP ir peace of crap if you want good image.
three-color DLP projector will cost 3x much more .. as it expected and is in real market (~4000$ with good image quality)
three-color DLP projector will cost 3x much more
.. as it expected and is in real market (~4000$ with good image quality)
Reason #500
nice to hear that diy is still the way to go
all i Have is one word to say
CONTRAST
yes its worth it to me to buy a 2500 or so comercial 1080p with 300 dollar bulbs for wait for it... CONTRAST. Oh yeah then theres color saturation, vignetting, really the list goes on and on. Are these facts a big deal? If your not as picky about picture as me then probably not. If you are, then there is really no comparison between diy and commercial.
Having said that I have been using my 10.6" 720p for over 2 years now with a 140+ inch image, and the image is good enough for now. I do still lack a little bit of shadow detail, but no where near as much as low end comercial units. Really you get what you pay for. DIY is awesome for what it is, but it has its limitations. Perhaps 300-500 dollar bulbs are not worth it to have a big screen to you with an awesome picture. You can get somewhat close with a properly calibrated diy and a dalite high power, at least thats my experience. However you will be lacking in some big areas imho on image quality.
CONTRAST
yes its worth it to me to buy a 2500 or so comercial 1080p with 300 dollar bulbs for wait for it... CONTRAST. Oh yeah then theres color saturation, vignetting, really the list goes on and on. Are these facts a big deal? If your not as picky about picture as me then probably not. If you are, then there is really no comparison between diy and commercial.
Having said that I have been using my 10.6" 720p for over 2 years now with a 140+ inch image, and the image is good enough for now. I do still lack a little bit of shadow detail, but no where near as much as low end comercial units. Really you get what you pay for. DIY is awesome for what it is, but it has its limitations. Perhaps 300-500 dollar bulbs are not worth it to have a big screen to you with an awesome picture. You can get somewhat close with a properly calibrated diy and a dalite high power, at least thats my experience. However you will be lacking in some big areas imho on image quality.
there are 15 inchers that is diy compatible with 5000 or more dynamic contrast like the samsung 633nw (this has 12000 dynamic contrast). i built one before but i broke the lcd after a few weeks. i didnt have the chance compare it with a commercial projector though.
It's definitely true that LCDs are getting better and better for contrast, but the biggest killer of contrast in any front projection is brightness. Why? Say you've got 100 lumens on a 3 m^2 screen. That's about 33 lux. If there's 3 lux of "stray" light int he room, the ABSOLUTE BEST contrast that you can get is 11:1. Why? Because even if your LCD had infinite contrast, the lowest that your "black" is ever going to be will be 3 lux, and the brightest that your "white" will ever be is 33 lux.
On that same screen, though, put out 1000 lumens, and now you're up to 110:1 contrast.
Unfortunately, I think that 1000 lumens from a DIY is pushing it, and probably not going to happen. But then I've measured a "2500 lumen" commercial projector at just over 350. At that level, too, on a 90" screen, it was uncomfortable to watch. Turning it to "cinema" mode, and it was more like 190 lumens.
Currently my DIY projector is putting out about 250 lumens. For a 130" screen, this is a little better than 5.2 square meters, so this is a little more than 48 lux. I measured the stray light in my basement as 2 lux. This doesn't give a particularly stunning contrast ratio by the numbers, but it looks good to me. (I used to have a lot more lumens, but I de-tuned my projector to give me fewer, because I found that it was more comfortable to watch this way.
Colour saturation is a similar function, by the way. In low light levels, your eyes become less receptive to colour information. This has never been a problem for me with a projected image, even when comparing to an excellent monitor. Colour perception is a function of overall lumens, so with the 250 that I've got, it's actually better than the commercial unit at 190. (That's with a smaller picture, so the lux levels are about the same, near 50.)
Is a commerciual projector "better" Maybe so. But If I have to choose between something that can only be marginally better, and counting off the hours of lamp life and having my projector which I can enjoy a lot more of with the longer lasting cheaper lamps... Then I'll choose to enjoy 20+ times the amount of time in front of hte 130" screen. (which, by the way, I'm typing this on right now, since it was on anyway. I'll also add that for what I was just watching, if I'd had to worry about lamp life, I'd have just watched it on the 19" TV instead.)
As is, I can let my kids watch movie marathons on the projector when they have sleep-overs. I can use it to watch old TV shows, or whatever movie. The question is never "Do I want to spend lamp life on this?" it's just "Do I want to watch this on the big screen?"
With a $300 lamp, you can bet that I'd never use the projector for gaming, and playing a driving game on the projector is something that I really enjoy.
On that same screen, though, put out 1000 lumens, and now you're up to 110:1 contrast.
Unfortunately, I think that 1000 lumens from a DIY is pushing it, and probably not going to happen. But then I've measured a "2500 lumen" commercial projector at just over 350. At that level, too, on a 90" screen, it was uncomfortable to watch. Turning it to "cinema" mode, and it was more like 190 lumens.
Currently my DIY projector is putting out about 250 lumens. For a 130" screen, this is a little better than 5.2 square meters, so this is a little more than 48 lux. I measured the stray light in my basement as 2 lux. This doesn't give a particularly stunning contrast ratio by the numbers, but it looks good to me. (I used to have a lot more lumens, but I de-tuned my projector to give me fewer, because I found that it was more comfortable to watch this way.
Colour saturation is a similar function, by the way. In low light levels, your eyes become less receptive to colour information. This has never been a problem for me with a projected image, even when comparing to an excellent monitor. Colour perception is a function of overall lumens, so with the 250 that I've got, it's actually better than the commercial unit at 190. (That's with a smaller picture, so the lux levels are about the same, near 50.)
Is a commerciual projector "better" Maybe so. But If I have to choose between something that can only be marginally better, and counting off the hours of lamp life and having my projector which I can enjoy a lot more of with the longer lasting cheaper lamps... Then I'll choose to enjoy 20+ times the amount of time in front of hte 130" screen. (which, by the way, I'm typing this on right now, since it was on anyway. I'll also add that for what I was just watching, if I'd had to worry about lamp life, I'd have just watched it on the 19" TV instead.)
As is, I can let my kids watch movie marathons on the projector when they have sleep-overs. I can use it to watch old TV shows, or whatever movie. The question is never "Do I want to spend lamp life on this?" it's just "Do I want to watch this on the big screen?"
With a $300 lamp, you can bet that I'd never use the projector for gaming, and playing a driving game on the projector is something that I really enjoy.
Supra your opinion is your opinion. That is like someone saying they really dont need volumetric efficiency from their motor because "wow 200 hp is just fine". Well good for them, you and I would both differ on that opinion I think, just as you and I both differ on commercial vs diy. Diy is very cool, it is also very limited. While everything you say is true, your "marginal" is totally a matter of your opinion. With higher lumens and dynamic contrast, even at 190 lumens a good comercial will blow your diy out of the water in every light condition. Why? simple, hardware.
Like I said it woud be worth it to ME to spend 300 dollars every six months(more like every 2 years but whatever) on a new comercial projector lamp to watch movies with "pop" on a 150 inch screen. I have many friends that have comercial projectors and every one of them looks "slightly" better than my 10.6". They all say that my projector looks just as good as theirs, however we have done side by sides on all of them, and your "marginal" might as well be "massive" differences to me.
I, like you, still use my diy and probably will for a couple more years until it is finacially responsible for me to buy a commercial. My projector is on for at least 8 hours a day and I will gladly pay for a comercial lamp just for the "pop" that better contrast and color saturation provide.
The same thing applies to my cars as well, I will buy racing fuel and run timing high just to get 40 more hp out of my mustangs because well, its just plain worth it to me, that way I have perma grin all the time because I get fast cars and big screens. To each his own.
The comercial projectors will never kill diy self simply because there is no greater satisfaction than tweaking something until you get the best possible picture, and then having your friends and coherts mouths gape after they say "Wow you actually built that?"
The thing that doesnt seem to get mentioned here either is the fact that you will almost surely spend more money building your diy then you will a commercial unit, it just gets spread out over a much greater span of time.
Just a matter of opinion really.
Like I said it woud be worth it to ME to spend 300 dollars every six months(more like every 2 years but whatever) on a new comercial projector lamp to watch movies with "pop" on a 150 inch screen. I have many friends that have comercial projectors and every one of them looks "slightly" better than my 10.6". They all say that my projector looks just as good as theirs, however we have done side by sides on all of them, and your "marginal" might as well be "massive" differences to me.
I, like you, still use my diy and probably will for a couple more years until it is finacially responsible for me to buy a commercial. My projector is on for at least 8 hours a day and I will gladly pay for a comercial lamp just for the "pop" that better contrast and color saturation provide.
The same thing applies to my cars as well, I will buy racing fuel and run timing high just to get 40 more hp out of my mustangs because well, its just plain worth it to me, that way I have perma grin all the time because I get fast cars and big screens. To each his own.
The comercial projectors will never kill diy self simply because there is no greater satisfaction than tweaking something until you get the best possible picture, and then having your friends and coherts mouths gape after they say "Wow you actually built that?"
The thing that doesnt seem to get mentioned here either is the fact that you will almost surely spend more money building your diy then you will a commercial unit, it just gets spread out over a much greater span of time.
Just a matter of opinion really.
Well I have been on this site for over 5 years and this has been done to death. The whole Diy vs Commercial.
And I personally don't care to go through it anymore.
If Supra wants to respond he can unlock this to respond.
And I personally don't care to go through it anymore.
If Supra wants to respond he can unlock this to respond.
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