Oh I know it's not easy lol that's not what I meant Thanks.


I was curious, if you through in new gantry bars could you widen the whole router? Not huge amount just something like 19x19 maybe? Do you think this would be unsafe as far as accuracy goes?

Do you think this machine would be ok for mostly aluminum working? I'm mainly trying to decide if I'd be better off building something custom that would work excellent for aluminum work or if this would work good. I know you guys showed that it will do aluminum work just not sure how well or if it's only ok to do it sometimes.

Would the Micro benefit more from a real style spindle or do you think the one you guys have found would be plenty good for aluminum work?

ahh. that's good, except i thought you didn't want to run power and control on the same (unshielded?) cable. isn't that what you recommended against with RoGR? or is the motor power just that much greater for the RoGR motors?


no problem. all i'm really looking for is a way for the software to know where the hardware is. and i thought encoders were reasonable, based on what you've done with RoGR. or is the RoGR of a different scale/size and doesn't have the problems the micRo would?

bottom line is i'd certainly like to buy some sort of "feedback" option that integrates with EMC2.

The micRo cuts superbly in aluminum as long as you're realistic about the working speed. I have some new tooling I'm itching to try so I thought once the V2 prototype is finished (tonight??) I'd run a few jobs in some billet to get some better performance specs for us. As for extending the size outside of the 19" upgrade kit it just isn't practical (hey it's the "micro" after all). The spindle works perfectly for the micRo's size. We are working (slowly) on a mid-sized bot with 24"x24" capacity.


We can specify the cable with bundles of shielded and unshielded cable in the same sheath. Or two cables can break out of a single jack as there is ample room. More soon.

Here are some pictures of the aluminum work its been doing for me.

Panel Drilling

Engraving

Here's a movie of it milling encoder holes in 0.062" aluminum in one shot.

Very nice

Ok.. I understand- It's really up to you... But I'd recommend through-bolting your sacrifice material, and use through-bolts to secure your workpiece. If you're in the states (I think you are), just use regular 1/4-20 bolts... But it sort of depends on what you're going to be making with the micRo..

Narwhal, you're on our blog

Brings tears to my eyes (tears not tears).

Seriously good to see some action baby.

Thanks, now I wish I had typed with less errors in my original post.

I'd also show everyone how the first anodize panel turned out, but it turns out that when velocity is too high in EMC, the EMC2 integrator curves between all line intersections. So rather than getting a sharp point at the top of the A its sort of does a sharp upside down U, then it also curves up on Z at the end. So the A is shorter on one side than the other. The text comes out looking like ransom letter, It's not pretty at all and I had no idea it was doing that. Totally not the fault of the micro though.. EMC sometimes does nutty things. Perhaps I'll post those pictures in a "what not to do" thread.

Anyway, the next panel you see from me will be amazing.

That looks great! Very cool to see some nice things being Made with the micRo. May I ask where you source your metal?

A place here in Irvine, CA called Industrial Metal Supply. It's about 5 blocks from my office and is the awesome when it comes to metal supplies. Each of these panels is about 9"x6" and I think I got 5 or 6 panels out of the sheet I bought. It was about $20 for the 0.062" 6061 aluminum sheet including the cutting.

Nice, thank you!

I suspect there are mettle... I mean metal supply shops all over. I go to one called "Metal Supermarkets". The prices are a lot lower than what I can find online (probably because I buy such small quantities at a time). Most of these places will also have a "remnants" pile (pieces that are too small to keep on their shelves) that they'll sell to you cheap (or maybe even give you for free).

[edit]Holy crap, did I really write "mettle" instead of "metal"?[/edit]

Live robocam test!

off air

Nice Narwhal!!!

V2 is oh so sweet. Tight, lean, quiet, fast, cooks and cleans* (*j/k).

For those poor souls too unfortunate to witness the live feed; a few moments of sublime inanity, inane sublimity and Robin.

It was Nice to see the cam feed! i watched for a bit.. nice addition of the Z knob! hope you guys do more live cam feeds!

Thanks

Here's a link to the Donald Tashkin piece. It's all over Youtube as well.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...6052501729.html

But it makes women have loose morals and have relations with ethnic men. And it makes people so violent compared to alcohol. :-) (off-topic but i had 2)

Having just read the study, that guy must be a right failure if he can spend a few million dollars and not prove the stated aim of the study! Hash must be really, really good for you!!

Anyway... I heard you guys say it:- 'All we have to do is make a load of these now.' :-) But remember, you only need to make a few of them, as long as it includes mine. ;-þ

I was just saying about the feed rates, to my wife, that it's great being able to move it at 24IPM of whatever, but unless it is cutting vinyl, that's far faster than a little machine would ever cut something like aluminium or even wood.

Right, off to gawk at really expensive and fancy locksmithing tools for the day.

He's (Tashkin) redeeming himself by giving (televised) lectures clearly stating that the prohibition is based on medical falsity and is technically....illegal.

Don't worry, you will get your bot.

For the speed; you must remember that 3DP is high on my list, as well as color textile printing. In a utopian future where I have employees again, I'll return to my idyll (otherwise known as R&D and art). This will allow me to actually finish the 3DP, which will make use of full speed.

My Dad was a locksmith; I learned a lot of the trade from him. Tell me again why you want a micRo?

It's all about the squares...The Y ways are driven into the gantry bloks with a mallet. The fit is very tight and the recessed set-screws (grub-screws ya limeys) are only a redundancy. After driving in the ways, it is refreshing to get a perfectly square fit....you can't "fake" that. (Bonus: can you catch the roll-pin placements?)

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The V2 Z, V2.1 is a little different. Very clean. Precision "pinned" bottom Z way holder having two roll pins for perfectly square, rigid alignment and two stainless shouldered cap screws for securement. (I told Robin this is excessive and we agreed to move the shouldered cap screws outward and ditch the pins, instead relying on the precision fitment of the shoulders through the Y blok.)

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Recessed shaft collars. V2.1 is slightly different.

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Watching the video where you were testing the blocks for squareness and tracking down the last thou, I was impressed by how light the whole assembly seemed in your hands.

About how much does a whole micro weigh (not including the computer)?

It's just that I'm incredibly strong.


Bare, with no spindle micRo currently weighs ~30 - 40lbs (need to measure it with the new stuff on).

Well, I figure if I can screw it to the door first, it can do the work while I sit in the van. ;-)

Nah, I'm making various tools and stuff. I've no idea if your dad was the same sort of locksmith as me, but I'll spend hours working out how to crack a lock, and I can easily sell some of the designs, plus there are always little widgets that cost a fortune, but that are just too long winded to be making by hand. A little machine that can churn out ten or twenty widgets in an afternoon, or, with a lot of fiddling, have a cutaway pattern built up for a certain lock that is then nicely repeatable, will be a goldmine. The other week there were some washers that would have been trivial for micRo - 6 circles and some plastic would have been the right size and shape - but instead I spent a good half hour messing with the nearest sized holesaws until I got it right, then hand finishing them.

I've got plenty of ideas, and my new webshop went live fully today (www.discreetsecuritysolutions.com if you're interested) so I have an outlet.

I'm hoping that I'll be able to get the micro to cut, very slowly, through some pretty hard steel using a carbide tool, so I can stop dremeling certain things by hand, too. I'm thinking of the cutoff wheels and the micro doing a slow pass leaving a slot behind, then repeating, and repeating. Then you change the disc and start it again, and then finally reverse the paths and do it again with a fullsize disc to get it to spec. Hardly micron accurate, but then I'll hand finish it if it needs it. Which is far better than purely handmade.

I'm also going to make an impact engraver head. At the show today the lowest price for an impact engraver machine was £2000, and the largest was £4,500. And that one was about the same size as the micRo. Just doing little signs, dog tags and stuff, it's a saving, even without the machining ability.

My Dad was a TS-cleared locksmith at NNS. His top-secret clearance took him on lots of misadventures, and safecracking was high on his repertoire of "pickery". This was mostly due to "white-shirts" losing the combinations to payroll safes on Thursdays. He also locked-up/broke-into nuclear weapons storage, missile arsenals, and executive Jaguars when they locked their keys in the car yet again. Most of the "important" stuff he was required to do didn't respond to "non-destructive entry", but he is an inventive, clever man who devised many "non-standard" ways around unsolvable problems. Homage paid....

Kudos on the shop.

Very interesting blog posts

BC, sounds like a great job! Those GSA containers you guys use are interesting, too. The safes we have over here are generally very different. US safes are generally far thinner doors, more containers than UK safes, as well as things like you tend to have combination dials, while we have lever locks. I just bought a flexible fibrescope from a US company at the MLA show yesterday, and I'm going back today to look around more, too. It's rather a small show this year, though. There's plenty of scope for new tools, and there is good money in them (or there was until Chinese manufacturing slashed the profit margins into bits, and fools started sending designs and photos over to be copied on the sly for cheap!) Since I'm doing my own neat designs, I can set my prices as I want, at least until someone rips it off.

I used to work in aerospace, and was cleared to (iirc) 2 below Top Secret (there are many shades and sub-levels, and Top Secret is not the highest either) but that was before I resigned and started doing locks.

geeky, thanks! Hope you found something of interest, and left a comment.

Nothing special tonight (I'm technically "off")...just some prep work for V2 assemblies. 100sq' down, 1100 to go!

We've been wanting a turntable for awhile; I think it will really speed things up.

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I always thought they were lazy susan's Never really find out why Susan (cousin) is lazy.....Sorry been a long rainy day with my 3yr old and 8yr watching too much Pixar.

According to Word-detective.com, the Susan part of Lazy Susan is suggested to come from servants, who were often named Susan back in the 1700s. In some regions of North America, a Lazy Susan is called a Crazy Adams, a reference to former U.S. president John Adams [1]. Playing off this term, residents of the northeast United States have been known to call the tray a 'Raging Seymour,' after legendary Bloomingdale pitcher Kyle Seymour.

Legend has it[citation needed] that the term was coined in reference to Susan B. Anthony in 1868 by political leaders opposed to her efforts supporting women's suffrage. The term began to surface after an attempted effort by Anthony to make a case for gender equality by denouncing a woman's 'duty' to fulfill cooking needs within the household. However, her adversaries dismissed the idea as an effort to disguise her laziness, hence, referring to her in the papers as 'lazy Susan.'

+ =

All this is just another Brainchild brainstorm.

The placing of the micRo on the Lazy Susan, and spinning it at 10k rpm, will totally cancel out all of the backlash in the screws.

Precision that even NASA couldn't duplicate in outer space !!!!!

Live!

off air

The leftovers...



Robin and I decided the only way we'd make it to "screw and bolt" was to stay up until they opened at 8am. We got there at 8:06.



The screw guy was thrilled to see us at 8:06. They didn't even have the lights on yet. Some old tractor repairmen came in after us and seemed "impressed" we beat them.



Life is a disappointment.....

Hey folks! Back to work. I have some very interesting news pertaining to V2! I'll report on this tonight once we have made certain that we can do it. See you in a few.

Hi everyone...exciting news! I had my trigger finger on the order button (ok it's not quite that easy) to have the ways produced for the initial run of V2s. You know, those made-to-size-no-way-in-hell-you're-getting-a-refund-expensive-mistake ceramic coated ways I spoke of previously? Well, something had been itching me ever since I turned down Dougie's post asking if a 19x19" working area micRo could be made. I've always dismissed the idea due to the Y way size and the crowded fit of the gantry blok bores; but after looking it over, I could see that we could make some tiny (to me at least) changes that'd allow for .75" ways for the Y. We have to buy new inventory anyway (stock, ways etc), and while we have to abandon some usable inventory, and Robin is very grumbly about having to remake all those CAD drawings, we just "have" to do it: A micRo expandable up to a 19" x 19" cutting area...I'm calling it:

m²

For micRo squared, obviously. I want to state very plainly that this changes nothing about anyone's order; it is an optional upgrade. You do not have to upgrade, you're credit card will not be charged, it won't take any longer to make your bot, and if you don't get the upgrade then the only thing you'll notice is some bigger Y ways on your bot (bonus!)....BUT, for those who want to play on a bigger lot, you can "super-size" your micRo to a pretty big little bot. The largest base size goes up to something like 23" x 26", and you'll have the option of expanding the size from regular to "long" (one axis with 19" work area) or "squared" (two axes with 19" work area. I made a drawing showing the large base dimension with the micRo for comparison.

Click to view attachment

(Since some are wondering; the blue Vista ATP printing is on a protective, peel-off coating on the alum tool plate.)

I made a video discussing the changes (we're tired and it shows)..



I know some of you have bought 19" X upgrades, and that you may want to go bigger, but I don't yet have the price for the m² upgrade. I hope to have all of the quotes back by tomorrow evening, so hang tight. ~Cheers

Click to view attachment

Doesn't this belong in the Cool/Interesting Work Photo topic?

Durachko, I asked about that a while back. Search posts for "Pregnant woman torso"!

BC, Robin. Listen carefully. Go and sleep, and come back refreshed. Getting totally exhausted when doing stuff with sharp things is a great way to add to your collection of cool scars and digits in a box. It only takes one slip while dog tired, and your career is effectively over as regards threading a nut onto a bolt.

Ok, feeling a bit less exhausted? Ok, now, stop tinkering. Draw a line in the sand, and start shipping some product. You need to sell units, to stay in business, and to do that, I'd suggest you need to ship some more product. There are probably a lot of folks watching this who are waiting until you have sent stuff out complete, and are getting rave reviews, before sending you their money. Changing the design now is also a bit daft, as you already have some kits shipped, and they will also require some future support. Draw your line and carry on. Recoup some of the expenses so far. Then once you have a bit more money, head for the next product.

Those who want a 19" micRo will wait. If you keep pushing the range so you have more stuff to do and more options, you will end up with more confused people, more headaches regarding stock and parts control, and fewer units sold, as people will hang on for the (promise of the) next great thing, rather than buying what you have now, or, buy something that is now, rather than waiting.

Finally, the price of your competition is also dropping. I saw a unit that is comparable to micRo (though a smaller footprint) at a trade show, with an impact engraver head unit, for Ž£4000. That's a *lot* less than they were asking at last years show.


In return for the telling off/opinion giving, here's a neat idea I read on the RepRap (an open source competitor) site which might help somewhere with your assembly work. Get yourself a stepper motor on a stick. Ok, threaded rod. If you need to thread a part onto the rod, simply work out how far down you want it, then spin the rod that many steps to get it where you want it. To the fraction of a mm. If you want to put several parts on, you dial the first one to a part of the way, then add the next thing, press go, spin both those bits, then add the third, etc. until you end up with all the parts threaded on to the exact positions you want, without effort.

Wow, the upgrade does make a significant difference in the future uses for the micRo. Just to get this straight, I think I have the v2 on order.

1. How does the v2.1 relate to the m^2?

2. The m^2 configuration allows us to upgrade the way lengths and base plate in the future to provide a larger cutting area?

3. I would like this upgrade if it's all the same.

When are y'all thinking about shipment?

yes please! ship your orders! i was this >< close to buying a similarly priced CNC just because they would ship in one week.

shipping ftw

I disagree - what further use would adding those extra inches make to what you can actually do with the machine? Nearly none. It's just a slightly bigger work area. It's not a fundamental difference.

Even adding an extra 2" of vertical travel wouldn't be a step change.

The micRo itself is a step change over "not micRo", but adding a bit to the travel isn't a big thing.

A step change would be the addition of the injection head for additive work, rather than subtractive. A step change would be adding a 4th axis. A step change would be something to wait until there are boxes waiting to be shipped in exchange for cash, and then sell as an upgrade.

Well, for my uses, it could save me plenty of time considering I am making multiple small parts and being able to start and walk away for 50 items vs 20 would be better. I do feel your frustration though. I have about $1k worth of software, designs, raw materials, and a sparkling foredom spindle, all ready to go...

Would have to agree

Finish designing/planing v2 in October then rob us of our Christmas money. 1 product version/upgrade a year is our limit at work. any more and the sales team will complain that people are holding off on purchasing often for some small improvement. which could have waited till next year making the list of improvements and new features even bigger.

Did you not have plans to have 3 sizes at one point micRo(small) "........."(medum) and RoGR(large) in my opinion should not each product line have a fixed size with the only option being if the user wants kit pars or fully assembled.


above meant as constructive criticism only micRo v1 was excellent by the way.

Hiya soapy. Thanks for the advice.

Even though I emboldened the statement, " it won't take any longer to make your bot", I went back and made the text bigger, as it seems to have been missed in the reading.

The change does not delay completion of orders!

Better?

While preparing the BOM for V2, I happened to notice that adding just .25" to the gantry bloks and Y blok would afford us this way-cool change. The blok stock must be ordered no matter what way size we use, and will take the same amount of time to produce. I have a perfectly fine V2 prototype sitting here if you need it now. Hell, it's one of the most tested bots we've produced! The legendary "Robin Stand On" version even. Yours for the asking. You will not however have the ability to easily make the bot bigger should you desire to do so.

PS, There are no lines in the sand, only the relentless waves of change.


Working on it sir. Curious, which bot is the micRo equivalent?

Now that's just silly. Lesse...

10x12 work area = 120"²

19x19 work area = 361"²

That makes the work area 3X larger. That is not "slight". To boot, it is an exemplary value as most of your robot investment "scales" rather than becoming "obsolete".

Hi minty,

1: It is the same bot. You can simply buy another set of X ways and a bigger base to convert to m². (The extra X ways become the Y ways.)

2: Yes, you can either upgrade or receive the bot with the changes in place.

3: Great. I still don't have prices as the aluminum supplier said they won't have the quote until tomorrow, but we should talk to Kellie (micro@lumenlab.com) and get you set up.

I didnt say equivalent, i said in more or less the same price range. I meant the fireball v90. Now it has a two week lead time, in august when i ordered my micro it was one week.

anyhow, a comparison between the two machines would be very educational.

Lucio.

i got as far as "Rigid MDF Contruction".

Heheh..

I can put a bunch of junk in a box and send it to you tomorrow if you want?

Seriously, I shouldn't say anything about it...I think we were going to make a "comparison matrix" between micRo and several other bots....though I don't believe there are really any bots in micRo's class (micRo isn't in an idiom, it is an idiom).

micRo is a handmade precision machine that I rarely think of as a "CNC machine". micRo is the artistic and scientific output of my life; a life I've lived with a passion for mechanics beginning before I could talk (right Mom?). Robin now shares that passion with me, living on practically nothing because he loves this stuff. Economy be damned; this is what we do. The micRo platform strives to be modular and adaptable to many purposes and made to my standards, which often have forced long delays due to my intolerance of inferior output (hence the need to build RoGR to make the things initially). Some poor people have waited >a year to receive their bots; I don't think the Fireball has kept anyone waiting nearly so long. In truth, I'm sure I've made every wrong business decision I can; like abandoning inventory because a newer design was better. These mistakes have added up, yet I continue in this vein (or maybe it's "vain") because I want to deliver a product that has the greatest possible worth. We responded to pressure to push micRo beta out the door as V1, and there were many issues because basically, the bot wasn't finished. Now the bot is nearly "finished" for real. Thousands of hours of testing. Thousands of parts generated, techniques tried, sleepless nights, money lost, and all the while trying to placate irritated customers whom have spent the money...it is taking its toll on us, yet we are "there".

When you look at bots, look for these things:

Precision.
Ground toolplate base.
Universal lash compensation. (MV2 can adjust the lash out of every moving part, and allows for precision squares (to the 1/10,000") to be drawn from the compensatory mechanisms. This is HUGE to me...).
Adaptable, open platform.
Modularity.
Precision.
Long wearing durability.
Monolithic construction.
Simple design.
Open control standards.
Precision.
Value (must factor all above).
Dedicated producers (me, K and Robin). Do other robot makers vomit blood because they "care"? (Trick question!)

Sigh...I should sleep, maybe later.