I have been looking into automated robotics for a while, and since I found out about micRo I have been far more tempted to get into the field.

However I have a few concerns, hopefully you all can help me with.

Presuppositions:
1.) I work on macs. I gave up on windows (and most intel based *nix) OSes a long time ago.
2.) I intend to do mostly milling (wood, and softer metals like brass/bronze), 2d and 3d, however I do not mind learning with other tasks (for instance making a robot draw).

Questions:
1.) Is there Mac software that is not insanely priced? If not, I'd prefer to look to linux based solutions...
2.) Has anyone had any experience with serial to USB products? (Macs have not offered USB in a *LONG* time)
3.) Where do you all keep your computer equipment while doing tasks like this? I imagine the dust concerns etc.
4.) Aside from buying a micRo, having a computer running the proper software, and appropriate connection from said computer to said micRo, what else would I need to start considering an undertaking like this? Say getting a micRo to say "helllo world!" with a pen taped to it?
5.) Since my main application would be milling (at least initially) are there any discussions for spindles to use for diferent tasks?

Anyway, sorry if I am a newb. Just trying to learn.

-Greg

On my handheld so I'll talk more later. To control the machine you need an x86 box with parallel port to run EMC2. This is just a machine controller, not the work station. Your cad/cam can be done on anything, though for Apple you'd have to cam in boot camp (unless something has changed in the wares world.

BTW, Greg meant to say "Macs have not offered serial ports in a *LONG* time" (i'm a Mac person too)

For the controller, the requirements aren't much. Newegg and tigerdirect have plenty of closeouts on low end computers in the sub $300 range which would all be suitable (given it has a par port).

For CAM/CAD stuff, I would assume parallels or VMware would handle those just fine.

For the spindle, if to search the micro thread, in the last 5-10 pages or so there's mention of the spindle. Actual bits and the like haven't been discussed, but in my uneducated guess, it seems that the spindle at it's high rpm, will have slightly different characteristics than typical milling techniques.

You are correct sir. Thanks for the correction.


Seeing as you are a mac persion, how do you have your gear setup?

VMware fusion is probably the first thing I'll check out (virtual OS desktops, with hardware support [very nice]).


I guess my first goal, is simply to get into the whole CAD/CAM arena. I was thinking a $600 (plus odds and ends) kind of solution is not a bad way to get started, and I can always graduate into a more "big boy" solution if I need it.

My goals for learning:
Step one: get some form of CAD/CAM solution running.
Step two: have it draw "hello world!" for me on a sheet of paper, with a pen/marker.
Step three: rig said CAD/CAM with a spindle to start attemping some carving
Step four: ?
Step five: Profit!

Lots of experience with USB-Serial port converters....the question of "how good are they" depends a lot on the application and how the piece of hardware you are talking to interprets the RS-232 (non) standard.

After testing several adapters, I was turned onto the devices from Quatech: http://www.quatech.com/

I used one of their PCMCIA adapters and it allowed me to talk to equipment that failed with every other adapter I tried. Expensive, but worth it IMO.

They also make PCMCIA to Parallel adapters.

Before you go into any USB to Serial conversion...

I'm 99% sure that I read that going that route will NOT allow you to run real time, so if something happens and you miss a step the controller likely will not know it happened and therefore won't be able to correct or alert.

I'm not a Mac guy myself, but it might be better to look into a PCI parallel port card rather than a USB to serial adapter. I know they have them on the PC side, I assume there is some compatible on the Mac side as well

Local yard sale should net you a old pc for this project.

As for designing on a mac you can get away with google sketchup for mac but you may want to use virtual box/paralles/boot camp etc... to use proper software that only works under windows.

Right again. real-time is paramount.

It is not well understood, but to have necessary "real time" control + RT I/O from any program, the kernel must be "dedicated". Both 'Blows and the White Boxes are not at all in that frame of mind...

I met another Mac guy through the CNCzone forum. I don't know what went into his decision making process, but he is using a PC to control his machine and is using Windows on his Mac laptop to do the CAD/CAM work.

Here's his project log, he might have something in there about deciding between his Mac and a PC...

By the way, his machine is none other than cncjoe2006's model 2006 machine... I'm pretty sure Joe started here on Lumenlab with this machine.


On another note: my CAD package of choice, Rhino, is coming to the Mac. After a quick glance at the site it looks like you can download the latest beta for free, it's not clear how close to being finished that beta is though.

Agreed.

Due to the way that MicroShaft handles the USB driver (usbser.sys) , you will have non-realtime performance there. It sends the ping packets once every 12-15mS and that timing is NOT guaranteed.

Greg,
It looks like you've gotten lots of great answers already but I wanted to add a bit more background, I may not add much practical advice to the answers you've already gotten but hope to add some perspective for you and others who might come across this thread later.

This whole parallel / serial / USB question keeps coming up since it's counter intuitive to use old technology like a parallel interface to control something so (seemingly) new. The natural assumption is that USB would be better (or easier) since it is so much so in other applications. Also, parallel ports are so old-fashioned that many have forgotten about them or confuse them with serial ports --which may have similar connectors but work very differently and are not much used in the hobby CNC world.

Unless I'm forgetting some rare Mac, none of the many I've worked on (and I go back to the first Macs) has ever had a parallel port. The Lisa had one, but I don't think any Mac ever did. It doesn't much matter anyway since ports (Parallel, serial, USB, etc) require 'device driver' software which is operating system (OS) specific. This is one of many reasons why Mach only runs on windows and EMC is easier to install with the recomended Linux distribution. Even if you had a PC parallel port PCI card it wouldn't be of any use in a Mac without a device driver and a Mac OS device driver for this card probably doesn't exist.

To put it another way, Mach and EMC are different from most of the software you normally use (like MS Word, Firefox, Photoshop, FinalCut, etc.) While these may be very complicated and powerful pieces of software they run at a high level on the computer, they are very isolated from the hardware and use clearly defined OS functions to perform their interaction. This is very different from EMC and Mach which interact closely with the computer hardware, installing their own device drivers where necessary to optimize the computer for CNC use and to change the core functionality of the parallel port.

The important thing to keep in mind is why the parallel port makes EMC (and by derivation Mach) able to do such a great job controlling CNC machines. By directly controlling the parallel port EMC and Mach are able to send an exactly timed pulse stream to a specific pin on the parallel port. On my first CNC machine, moving the X axis 1 foot required something like 125,000 pulses on pin 3 of the parallel port, something that was completely controlled by software. This eliminates the need for additonal circutry to generate these precisely timed signals. Obviously this isn't how a parallel port printer normally works, it's a creative repurposing by the EMC folks and therefore any USB to parallel 'adapter' or converter' designed for use with a printer will not work to drive a CNC machine.

Note that there are USB based devices to control CNC machines. One example is the Smoothstepper device (http://www.warp9td.com/) which works by installing a device driver in Mach that allows Mach to offload the work of creating those 125,000 pulses to this device. These devices are likely the future of hobbyist CNC but for now they add cost and some complexity so most people don't use them.

As to the dust issue, it really hasn't been a problem for me or anyone I know. Since we all use cheap computers we're not paranoid about them dying so this probably skews our perception. This is only the machine controller, it shouldn't have your critical files on it. Keep the important stuff that needs to be on this machine (license keys, config files, etc) backed up and copied somewhere else, keep the fans and filters clear and don't worry about it too much.

Hope this helps.

Gordon

Hi Gordon, Where ya been?

Thanks for the heat!

Hey BC,

Work, work, work... just like you only no one wants to read about mine.

I'm taking the next few days off to hopefully make some progress on my Joe's 4x4 build, that's been gathering dust the past few weeks. Your progress on RogR is making me jealous.

I appreciated the video thank you. Did you like the sauce? I enjoy the combination of heat and fruit, it's not just a tongue blisterer. Since I've hijacked this thread I'll continue to be rude and not explain to anyone what we're talking about, they'll have to go look...

Tried to give you the big shout a couple of weeks back:

http://lumenlab.blip.tv/file/1331463/

no CNC setup yet, i'm still a newbie. (and my G5 power supply leaked all it's coolant, so i'm using the smallest macbook for a while.)

been playing around with Google SketchUp to get in some practice, but that's about it so far.

probably going to get a cheap/used PC to run brainchild's recommended CNC s/w... which recomendations are on the micRo product page as well as hiding somewhere within hundreds of posts in the micRo thread.

Question, I found a cheap PC on newegg, has a parralel port, and seems to meet the prereqs for EMC2:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16883104036

Anyone see any thing wrong with that for EMC2 purposes?

Looks good. Reassuring it's running 'nix already.