Except from an e-mail sent to Favorite Uncle:

[I realized the first week of school I need to start painting again. I came to the student union building to get a student ID and while waiting to get my picture taken I looked at the art on the wall. I could have understood if it had been the office occupant's work or one of a friend/child and she was trying to be polite, but it was a repro and this one happened to be 71 of 100. Yeah, yeah, the whole business of it being the school mascot allows for some cheesiness but the technique was garbage. I handled a pencil better in the 7th grade (art from 8th grade) and this was done by a college student! But not only that, there's at least 70 others hanging around campus! So I figure, whoop-dee-doo, they're promoting student art. It's not like *new school* is known for their art department. Seriously, the classwork hung at intervals during the term at *my alma mater* was virtually all better than this, let alone to mass produce it and frame it.

So after I get my pic taken, I start to wander, getting a feel for the new school. I stumble across an honest-to-goodness gallery. So I start walking through, and after seeing about 3 paintings (this was a one person show) I'm looking for the podium or poster with the artist's statement. There is none and that frustrates me, because I want to give this person the benefit of the doubt. I want to read that this individual has a disability of some sort. (I know that sounds inordinately cruel, but it's not meant to -- I was just desperately trying to reconcile what I was seeing with what my experiences in the art world have been.) Colors straight from the tube, gloppy, muddy shadows. Now I get very direct (as in the painting method) sometimes and I've done at least one painting that the surface was over an inch deep. The thickness of the paint is not the issue; it's how it's laid down, blended or not blended into the paint next to it. Hard to explain, but this was just messy and not as a deliberate aesthetic given the subject matter and treatment. The part that surprised me the most is that the majority of the paintings were sold, either already hailing from private collections or had just been purchased. ]

I've strolled through houses in the state worth upwards of half a million and not seen a single original piece of art (all reproductions) -- not all those houses, but most -- and so either the rules have changed since I was painting, the new city I live in likes original art more than other parts I've been in or this was a show for someone who has never taken a basic painting course and people felt like being REALLY encouraging.

Yes, I can admit it freely now. I am an art snob. *sigh* Good to get that off my chest!

Who else is feelin' "holier than thou" about something?

edit:wrong junior high year

Fall leaves in water
Some shed tears of joy or pain
Some do not notice

much "art" in general baffles me. like the plain white canvas hanging in a museum, or the "paintings" that look like brushes full of paint were tied to a dogs tail as he ran across the canvas wagging away. While a lot of time, effort, and thought may have gone into some of these works, to me it just looks like a mess. My uncle is an artist and much of what he paints looks like it came out of a childs arts and crafts class.

I think the real snobbery is someone looking at me funny when I'm not impressed with that twisted up peice of foam with spots spraypainted on .

Actually, greymalkin, I had a college roomie from your neck of the woods that mentioned a triptych (set of three paintings) hanging in the Houston Museum (IIRC). She said she thought it was the most worthless thing, three blank white canvases and the title was "Three Shades of White". We talked about it for a while and since I had never seen them I just guessed at a few possible meanings, not that I could have necessarily produced anything more conrete if I was standing in front of them -- nature of the medium sometimes.

After we talked for a bit, she said, "You know, I never really thought about it that way. When I go back to Texas, I'm going to go find those and look at them again. I think they may have become one of my favorites."

For instance, I used to hate Pop Art. Learned more about it and now it's one of my all-time favorite movements. The whole picture-worth-a-thousand-words thing makes a big difference if you kinda know which thousand that person might be communicating.

I've had a couple of people offer to take me to Europe just for the education and entertainment value. The first time I went to the Met, the first gallery I walked into was the Grecian scultpture. I was face to face with the Kouros figure. He was beautiful. And knowing His history, what He meant to later artists, the fact that I'd written papers about Him... I started unabashedly crying. My parents were confused as all get out, I'm sure, but then I began seeing all these other amazing things and moving at a faster and faster pace until basically we were running, me babbling like a sugared up 6-year old, trying to soak up as much personal communion with roughly 7000 years worth of culture as I could. This went on for hours until the closing "great round up" and I had to pulled away from a Vermeer.

Anytime someone is passionate about something, it tends to rub off. Like this summer, I was chillin' with a friend and he starts watching the Tour de France and I start thinking of ways to excuse myself. Previously, the debates of geriatric ladies over the superior form of foot attire to relive bunions was more fascinating than the Tour. He started to explain things to me, being a former street racer himself, and I started asking questions and soon I was totally wrapped up in it. It's like team chess on bikes -- there's way more too it than I originally thought. By the end of that day's leg, I was all wrapped up in it.

By the way, greymalkin, some "art" is crap and I have no problem with people calling it out. Art criticism used to make Simon Cowell look like the polite neighbor who can never manage the gumption to tell the idiots next door to turn the stereo down. It's all sweet and cuddly now.

I was in the SF MOMA when I saw a lady angrily hit Duchamp's Fountain with a pamphlet, saying and "Then there's this garbage!" It's a urinal with the name R. Mutt painted on the side. I love it to death and while for a lot of artists that would be high blashemy (slapping the sculpture), that was Duchamp's original statment with it, "What is considered art?" I bet the old boy still laughs everytime he gets that reaction.

Well this isnt really a snob story but more of an anti one. When I recently moved to Bellevue, WA for my new job. I didnt have the means to afford my own deposit for my apt. So i thought why not craigslist a couple places, and eventually found a mansion that was renting out rooms for right down the street from microsoft HQ.
Now I thought I really moved up in life. Making a huge pay increase and getting a job working with engineers drafting stuff. But then again Ive never met a bunch of koreans who worked at microsoft. When they come in they never say hi they just lock them selves in their rooms and look at there laptops. and when I finally met one of them, it was after I was tossing and turning to try and fall asleep and i hadnt had dinner that night, so i go to the fridge for a midnight snack and rummage around for something half eaten. i run into one of them. The first thing he asks me is wwhy im up and i said i cant get to sleep, and he responds with "maybe you should excersize, and Im not even chubby."
I of course brushed that off, and asked him his name and what hes doing here. I guess I asked the right question because he staitened his shoulders and put his nose in the air, and went on and on about how hes developing a new technology for microsoft, and how he didnt even apply, he went to Cam,bridge University and was hand picked by an exec from microsoft to work on this technology. and when he finally asks me what I do. I tried to make it sound interesting by said Im a mechanical engineer of water process technologies. And then get this. he just smirks at me and then asks how much college I have (2years btw). And when I tell him I got an Associates degree. he makes fun of it further saying theres no such thing as an AA where he comes from.
It really turned my night. but then i think of the joys of getting hammered and torn with my buddies at home and it makes me feel american. similar stories with evryone else but one. I guess some people dont get that being successful isnt the grand centerpoint of life.

Sorry duchess, but I don't think I'd like your uncle much.

What is art? the definition is simple enough: the products of human creativity.

What moves some may not move others. So what?! We're talking things of the soul, here. Why is one person's creation less then that of another?

Snobbery indeed...

Nope, that’s me you don’t like, OK. No quote from my uncle there. Everybody has a superiority complex about something. I was pointing out a fault in myself (a reaction I was surprised to see) and seeing if anyone else felt like sharing.

Apparently only the shortcomings of others are a la mode.

SJ: ¿Y por qué el poema, seňor?

I once took my kids to an art museum in LA. One of the displays involved three urinals mounted on a wall. The guards took a fit when my six year old son wanted to try it out for size. Personally I think he had the right idea.

Ah, sent to your favorite uncle. Misread that...

At any rate, I have many faults. It would take some pondering to find one that I would feel comfortable sharing with the whole inter-webs. I applaud you willingness to do so, at least.

i guess it all goes back to the the phrase "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". There is obviously purpose and I'm sure a lack of education on such artsy things prevents me from appreciating some art. My perception of art is based on whether or not I beleive it took an exceptional amount of skill/talent to create the peice. The talent I can see is not in their intellect, but the physical product left behind. So the white paintings or the square with a slightly different square beside it may not wow me, even if it makes a profound statement.

This feeling about art is not absolute, of course, as some simple works of creativity do impress me, having a grasp of some higher meaning/purpose..but still there is a limit..such as the square or gradient or white canvas...in which I will still probably scoff even if there is some noble meaning behind it

but art was made to be pondered over and enjoyed by all, so for every grouch like me there's someone else who will marvel at its beauty .

Here's the thing, though. I taught high school art. I cheered on everyone who tried, that's just me. I especially tried to cheer on those who thought for sure they couldn't do it. I'm all about people believing in themselves.

However, I feel there is an inherent difference between high schoolers and someone who gets a one person show. There is a level of professionalism I'd expect. I'll explain a little further, these paintings were done from and meant to resemble photographs (several were obviously not their own source material -- HUGE no-no once you go "pro" given intellectual property) and the understanding of color theory was really about the level of someone who'd get a C in a basic college course. They were messy landscapes. I have nothing against landscapes, just poorly painted landscapes.

I know plenty of practicing artists who would love to sell more work and who would love to get a one person show, and every last one of them would make this other individual look incompetent if their work was hung side-by-side. It's just one of those, "what the....?" moments.

Art to me is something done in such a way as to lend beauty to the creation. Martial arts - the differance between a noby hack and a practiced masters there in lies the art. To watch the moves, the gestures, the fluidity of motion - which the same can be said for dance.

I looked up the fountain, and though I don't see beauty in the piece - I see a sly smirk and a little wit behind it. I see a beautiful irony about it - and to me that's the art in the piece.

Of course I find art in many things, the hand build copper with personal touches lovingly altered and re crafted, with the builders creativity inspiring the new design form the stock bike. Many of the pj's here on LL are works of art, original concepts or like the chopper, concepts altered and taken to the original.

There is art in the mountains on a fall day when the beauty of the scenery makes you take pause and ponder, if only for a brief moment, your place among them.




p.s as for personal snobbery - I find that people with a lack, at the most basic level, of common sense get the nose up and a brushoff. As for personal experience I was sorely mistaken or an ignorant truck driving ball cap wearing redneck by this guy who wanted to lord his self advertised masters degree over the lowly slack jaw. This offended me to say the least, I'm not ignorant. I realized his self image is low enough that he has to base his self worth solely on his master degree as he was so quick to share that with me ( and ask me where mine was - I said I don't need one, he retorts " I bet you don't". ). now don't get me wrong - his having a masters is great takes a lot of work and dedication to archive and he should be proud of it, however to use it as some sort of status symbol is just lame - and oh yes I let him know it. He starts going on about an education blah blah - I tuned him out waiting for him to quite down and told him an education is to take an empty mind and create an open mind - and your not very open minded. After that we both calmed down and started behaving like adults. He was actually a pretty nice guy and we found out we have more in common then anyone would have guessed. I could tell our conversation blew his mind, by his words and expressions.

By the end he realized the old saying is quite true: Never judge a book by its cover.
This lesson I learned in a similar way, but more sociable. I was at the parts store, and in walked this old man. I took him, at first glance, as an old farmer or perhaps retired factory worker trying to piece back together "ol'reliable". Who was he? An kind & intelligent man, just just happens to own pieces of railroads in 3 states and then some - in an auto parts store with grease on his hand because his fixing his pickup - go figure. When introduced, he was slightly embarrassed when the " cat was let out of the bag". Great guy, a sincerer good to meet you, smile on his face with hearty handshake we had some small talk about trucks and parts and he was out - like the man in the previous paragraph I made a snap judgment based on clothing and apearence and I was oh so wrong.

Why not?

I think it states my point reasonably well.

Quite. But to whom is such a comment leveled?


Well, I think what happened is that I labeled my behavior too harshly. All talk of art aside (really, art virginity is sweet and all but it's kind of been a red herring to the discussion), when you are in a professional setting, you expect professional results. It doesn't matter what field of art you are in, technique and craftspersonship come into play. If you engage in objective accuracy kind of work (what is commonly referred to as "realism", but is actually a misnomer as far as movements go) THE BIG thing to go on is technique. If you haven't got it, you haven't got it. Let me try to give a probably terrible parallel, if you work in encryption and don't know code, that will probably be a problem. To someone who doesn't read code, your "code" could look like the real deal. To someone who can read code, the odds are high that they will roll their eyes. Doesn't matter how you learned code, how many masters' degrees you have or anything else. Someone doing shoddy work is still someone doing shoddy work.

As far as education goes, yes, I have a degree. Yes, I'm in the process of getting another one. And yes, I'll even go further than that. If it was about status, I would have fast-tracked the education all together. I'm doing what I'm doing now in order to change options and find where I fit the best. I'm happy as all get out to be in a learning environment again.

And getting the "you're red neck trash" business, that happened to me right here on this board not long ago. I've had that one played against me enough now to know better than first appearances giving the whole story.

Okay, I'm coming off way stuffier than I mean to be. And more than I am. So since this all happened with a question from a slightly out of the norm instance one day, I have a question:

If you accept someone's invitation to go to an adult toy store and the next words out of their mouth are a question about pharmaceutical grade pain-killers that boost adrenaline, that's normal, right?



This happened first thing this morning.

Well, I suppose that it depends on the toy store, but... Yeah, I know people who'd consider that to be absolutely normal.

On topic... Abstract art doesn't do much for me. I guess I don't know how to look at it, or how to 'get' what the artist wants to convey. I suppose that I can recognise when some wierd thing has been done with some skill, but really, for the most part, I find the skill to be in what actually comes across. There should be a message in the medium, and it shoud be understandable to the receiver. You can speak to me in gibberish all day long, but it won't do you any good.

As for the definition of 'art' -- what my kids bring home from school is art. It's creative, expressive, and I can tell when they put a lot of work into it. It's not always GOOD, but it's generally comprehensible. They bring home a lot of crap, too, but that's okay. They're kids.

I suppose that from another standpoint, that makes me an art snob, too.

1. Why you and the rest of the world, of course.

2. Who called you Red Neck Trash? Did I miss something? You know after that missing 18 minutes of dictation from the Nixon thing, my memory just hasnt been the same...



Then stop it.


BTW....MTH on a first date? Oh Please...Better off to do some MDMA ( traditional formula...) with a small infusion of Red Bull every hour. Much safer.
( hahahahahaaaaaaa....)

When the kids bring home the shoddiest picture of stick figures you have ever seen, but its a picture of you and them at the store holding hands - it then becomes a master piece worth of the kitchen gallery.

edit**lack of proofing

I'm a stick figure man myself..it's the limit of my artistic ability..at least on paper. done with sincerity, however, it evokes the desired response.

i did take some art education classes and I think almost as highly of them as I did my humanities classes.
humanities seeks to teach you how to think critically by telling you how you should think . I'm sure many of those types of classes are heavily influenced by instructor bias, so the math/logic classes were my bread and butter. Although you still have crazy teachers no matter where you go, but they can't fit their opinion into truth tables and boolean algebra .

My daughter has actually expressed the family gene for talent in her drawing. Her second grade project was pretty funny. It was a picture of a landscape type picture with a dog in the middle( done as only a second grader can do...) then there was a series of pawprints and tail swags on the paper in deep blue ink.

Her title was "Art is not good with Dogs."

Sorry, the parental urge to share came out...
I used to use art and drawing as a means of therapy for younger kids. I find it invaluable to see how they look at the world.

seeing the world through a childs eyes is definitely a mind opening experience...also watching a child visibly process information and tasks that are almost involuntary to us is also a fascinating experience.

I was treated to an "Arty Show" by my 5 year old last night...

She draws pretty scary spiders!

It may be a good time to take the vacuum to the spiders walking around on her ceiling.

It got yanked before many people saw it. That's not a direct quote because, as they say in the Nixon transcripts, (expletive deleted).




Who said it was a first date? I'm off the market.

So.....

The rest of the men in the world can breathe a little easier now?

Hmm. I took that collective sigh as more of a "Why couldn't it have been me?"

I mean, come on. A nice young woman a man doesn't hesitate to introduce to his parents and who is simultaneously down with interludes that involve props and injections? I believe they call that the best of both worlds.

edit: to expound on my awesomeness

Ahhhh...So you DID finally make friends with the people in the Meth Van!


(Jack ducks for cover behind nearest convenient flameproof object...)

Nope, the city claimed that house and the Meth Van got towed back in February. It has been much quieter on this end of the block since then.

Wow! White trash and a drug addict? I can feel the love.