I have been doing some one on one comparisons of paints available at Home Depot. As part of that investigation I also looked at untinted Behr UPW paints. In addition to the UPW paint bases I tried a couple of variations of adding some Behr White Opal Pearlescent (WOP). Long story short, the Behr Premium Plus Ultra™ Exterior Flat #4850 came out on top as the brightest and visually whitest of the pack.

Comparisons Summary

Behr UPW Flat #1050 ~vs~ Behr Exterior ULTRA Flat #4850

Click image to enlarge.

4850 is brighter and maintains that advantage up to about 45 degrees off axis.


ULTRA 4850 ~vs~ (2:1) UPW 1050 + WOP


The 4850 still looks the best.


Ultra Deep Base + WOP Top Coat Over UPW #1050 ~vs~ ULTRA 4850


The SNOW Top Coat looks pretty good on axis. It is a warmer white though. It loses all it's brightness well before 45 degrees off axis. I would probably not use this because of the inherent color shift.


(2:1) UPW 1050 + WOP ~vs~ UPW 1050


The addition of the WOP does increase the brightness of the UPW 1050 however no more than going to the ULTRA 4850.


Conclusions

Of the combinations I tried the Behr Exterior ULTRA 4850 was the brightest. What I did not try was the Behr Exterior ULTRA Satin 9850. However "diypjperson" has just purchased a can of 9850 and 4850. I think they will try the 9850 first. If that hot spots then they will try successive mixtures of the 9850 and 4850 until they get a sheen that does not hot spot.

I also did not try a mixture of the Behr ULTRA 4850 and the White Opal Pearlescent. This could be a very bright white but I suspect it may hot spot. Normally a 2:1 mixture would make sense since the paint comes in quarts and the WOP comes in a 16oz. bottle. If anyone tries this I would use 4 to 8 oz of water to rinse out the WOP bottle and thin the mixture.

The safe bet is the 4850 but hopefully "diypjperson" will try out the ULTRA Satin 9850 and report their findings to this thread or start a new one. If there is someone adventerous out there I really think the Ultra 4850 + WOP is worth a try as well. You could try the equivalent of 8oz, 12oz., and 16oz. added to a quart of 4850. That would be ratios of (4:1), (2.6:1), and (2:1). If someone does decide to try it let me know and I can work out exactly what quantities to mix for those ratios.

Hey Tiddler, your name continually pops up in the threads to do with experimenting with improved screen compositions and though I am not really in a position to make one based on any of your research at the moment (ie I have no money) I would just like to throw in my appreciation for all the work you have been doing (and everyone else working on screen tech for that matter... well just everyone here who is helping further the collective knowledge about Home Theatre I guess).

Anyway... yeah... thanks for all the work you are putting into this!... I'm sure one day I will actually be able to put it to practical use.

I see posted elsewhere, that the Behr Exterior ULTRA 4850 has an RGB in the order of 250 250 245. That is pretty darn white.

I apologize for the broken photo links in this thread.

I will fix them very soon.

All fixed!

I finished the dark room comparisons of the Behr white bases and included Kilz2.

The full photo sets are located in my PhotoBucket folder Whites For LumenLab.

You will see these texture photographs along with sub-folders for various side-by-side comparisons.

Kilz2


Behr UPW 1050


Behr UPW 1050 + WOP


Behr 4850


To be fair some of these panels already had a few rolled coats of paint on them. The Kilz2 panel was new and has two coats applied with a fuzzy roller then backrolled and down rolled with a 6" hard white foam trim roller.

Kilz2 Comparisons

Let's start with the two most recommended flat white paints for a DIY screen.

Kilsz ~vs~ Behr UPW #1050

This Kilz2 Primer is the thickest paint I have seen so far. The Kilz2 stinks! My wife walked into the room for only a few seconds and instantly got a headache. OK I know I was in the room too , but she has walked on me and Behr Exterior ULTRA 4850 many times and while she did not like the smell she did not get sick instantly. It does roll on very well and leveled out nicely. Kind of surprising given how thick it is.
Click image to enlarge.
The photo above is of two coats of Kilz2 on a new sample panel. The finish is very flat and the resulting texture is quite acceptable.

The Behr UPW #1050 flat latex is the other flat white screen paint. It too is thick and yet rolls on very well and levels out quite well. This photo is a bit misleading., since this is a recycled panel and it already had some number of coats of paint on it. More representative of a wall in someone's house though.
Click image to enlarge.

Keep in mind that a pixel size for a 96" 16:9 screen coupled with a projector that is 720p, would be 0.067" or 0.0625 for a 768 resolution presentation projector. This translates into a pixel being around 1/16" square.

Looking at the photos above it should be apparent that the Kilz2 applied to a smooth surface, by rolling it on with a fuzzy roller, back rolloing, and down rolling with a 6" hard foam trim roller, resulted in a finer texture that is twice the density of the pixel grid. Therefore there is likely to be a hill and valley in each pixel. The Behr applied and smoothed the same way, over several previously painted layers has a genterler but much less dense texture. It is therefore possible for one pixel to have a valley and it's neighbor(s) might have a hill in them.

With these very flat paints that is not such an issue. If you introduce any surface sheen that can become very visible in the image.

Flat Finish
Click image to enlarge.

Click image to enlarge.

Eggshell Finish
Click image to enlarge.

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continued . . . .

Flat can be an asset!

How well can a flat paint hide wall blemishes? Take a look at this . . .
Click image to enlarge.

After applying a couple of coats of Behr UPW 1050 tinted gray.
Click image to enlarge.

You might even get away with painting a cement block wall with this stuff as long as the grout lines are not too deep or rough.

Kilz2 ~vs~ Behr Flat UPW #1050

First let me describe the test setup.

I have an Optoma HD72. According to the review at Projector Central it produces around 350 lumens in cinema mode.

My living room is white. White walls and white ceiling. To the left of the screen the room opens up into the dining room, so there is no wall immediately beside the screen on the left. On the right there is white wall and a patio door sized window. The window has a fabric vertical blind in a medium slate blue color.

For these white sample panel comparisons I turned all the lights off except the back lighting for the screen. This I dimmed way down.

It was night so there was no ambient light leakage around the window.

I used the simple calibration images I setup based on the standard ANSI Pluge test patterns. I also verified the calibration by including a grey scale pattern.

Click image to enlarge.

I found it difficult to get the deeper blacks to be distinct without turning the brightness up considerably. I did not want to do that since the DIY projectors are not terribly bright. The result is some apparent crushing of the black levels.

Here are the projector settings:

Click image to enlarge.

Long story short, the UPW was brighter.


If however you want a little ambient light tolerance the slightly gray Kilz2 might be a better choice.

Click here to see the entire photo set.

Kilz2 ~vs~ Behr 1050 + WOP


Adding some Behr White Opal Pearlescent (WOP) has long been a common enhancement to the basic flat paint. It adds some sheen and pearl flakes. The Behr WOP is quite white and does not seem to introduce a tremendous color shift. The 1050+WOP was mixed in a (2:1) ratio which is the same as adding a 16oz bottle of WOP to a quart of Behr UPW 1050. I also used 8oz. of water to rinse out the WOP bottle. This resulted in a soupy thin paint that rolled on easily and when smoothed with a 6" foam trim roller resulted in a nice smooth surface.

Kilz2


Behr UPW 1050 + WOP


Again this was brighter than the Kilz2:


I did not have any WOP or I would have tried it in the Kilz2. I suspect that would make a good combination. It would also be self-priming.

Click here to see the entire photo set.

Kilz2 ~vs~ Behr Exterior ULTRA UPW Flat #4850

Kilz2


Behr $850 (recycled panel)


Behr 4850 (fresh panel)


The new Behr ULTRA exterior paints roll and level very well.

As you might expect this Behr UPW paint is also brighter than the Kilz2.


Click here to see the entire photo set.

Behr UPW 1050 ~vs~ Behr UPW 1050 + WOP

Click here to view the enter photo set.

This seemed like a natural comparison to make. It should show what difference the WOP is making.



The addition of the sheen and pearl flakes does brighten the UPW on axis. As with any gain boosting there is a penalty in viewing cone. At about 45 degrees the UPW and UPW+WOP are equal in brightness. Beyond that angle the UPW+WOP will continue to loose brightness compared to the flat UPW.

Behr UPW 1050 + WOP ~vs~ Behr ULTRA UPW 4850

Click here to view the entire photo set.

These two are very similar in brightness:



If you detect a slight bluishness to the WOP that is because I was worried about the red push that is attributed to the pearls and tried adding a small amount of Ultramarine to the first coat. It was way too blue. Even after several coats of just UPW+WOP the blue is still showing through. There are two things that you should take from that. First, always lay down a coat or two of a nice neutral white primer like the Kilz2. It should also be obvious that the addition of the WOP has made the paint more translucent.

As far as the UPW+WOP ~vs~ ULTRA4850 goes, I think the Ultra is the winner. It is self priming, very durable, UV resistant and it levels out very well. A better contender for the Behr 4850 would be the Kilz2 with WOP added. It would probably still be that 4850 that comes out on top though.

If for some reason you are apposed to using the exterior UPW then you could consider the Behr UPW 1850 Flat-Enamel. It does not level out as well but it does have similar gain characteristics.

1850 ~vs~ 1050


1050 ~vs~ 1850


This is sheen induced gain and therefore there will be a lose of brightness off axis.

One thing I did try back then that may be of interest here at LumenLab is the Behr Exterior Primer #436. It was quite bright but I felt it was too likely to hot spot and did not do any more experimenting with it.

Some people have also used Glidden Gripper primer with good results. In Canada the CIL Smart3 AnyWhere Primer is the equivalent. I mention it not only because it is a white paint worth considering but because in my experience this primer will stick to just about anything. It is recommended for painting glass and ceramic tiles. So if you are painting a sheet of melamine then consider the Glidden Gripper / CIL AnyWhere Primer.

Hazards Of Using Exterior Paints On DIY Screens

There have been some very valid concerns raised with regard to recommending the use of exterior paints for painting projection screens that will be used in the home. I would first like to point out that in this thread the only exterior paint that I have identified and have suggested using is the Behr Exterior ULTRA UPW Flat #4850. In response to the concerns raised regarding it's use being a health hazard, I sent an email to my contact at Behr Paints and here is the response:



I would also reiterate that I am only suggesting it as a screen paint. As a general rule it is not recommended that you use exterior paints for painting the interior walls of your home.

If you are concerned and would prefer not to use the exterior paint, then the Behr Interior UPW Flat Enamel 1850 has similar reflective characteristics and I would recommend it over a truly flat base like Behr UPW #1050.

They do not include fungicides or mildicides? The 4850 and the Dulux both smell of additional chemicals in them and I thought they both smelled about the same. It's my understanding that the fungicides and the mildicides are the main issue. They become gaseous over time.

Regardless the 1050 is only 1 point less on the RGB scale (than the 4850). I'll have some 1850 number shortly too.

mech

So do I, but it goes away fairly quickly.

I've used Exterior "Latex" paints for durability reasons for a long time. Yes, they do have a stronger smell, but the initial out-gassing diminishes almost as fast as water evaporation does, and besides that, the amount of paint being applied is not "a House's worth", just a few square feet.

Under the climate controlled and essentially "dry" atmosphere of a Home, none of the assaults on the paint's integrity that the outdoors provides occurs. Peanut Butter and Jelly fingers are another matter altogether!

IMO, it's too much ado over to little a concern.

Well I think I'd be a bit concerned about it for two reasons. One the chemicals. And if you do three coats on a 100" screen you're at roughly 76 square feet of coverage. From what little I garnered during my five minute google run, the stuff they put in there releases over time. That and the numerous places that say that this is a bad idea should be met with caution.

Secondly, my only attempt at mixing a BW with an exterior paint gave me bad spectro results. The Behr 4850 was a close match to Bermuda Beige, but it ended up with a red push. Even to the naked eye it looked bad. I am, however, gonna test it with 1850. The interior alternative.

Even after a burrito?

mech

Just to be clear I don't recommend the Behr 4850 be used as part of a mix. It works just great on it's own. In fact it showed signs of hot spotting when mixed with the Aluminum.

Please site your sources thanks I ask because using goolge to do research should be taken with a grain of salt because you _will_ find what your looking for - depending on _what_ your looking for. Also the comity of "they" is usually wrong anyway.

Here is where I listed everything of concern from all the various web pages. If you want to see them, google "using exterior paint inside". They're all listed within the first two pages.

mech

Now what we have here is failure to communicate.

Ok - no one will never change anyones mid with his argument, the best anyone can hope for is for an agreement to disagree and an awareness of _possible_ health risks

What we have here is comes down to Personal Responsibility. All should weigh the consequences based on the concentration of the chemicals present in the amount of paint to be used.

Some would choose none at all and others feel that a small section of his house - say 1/2 a wall is minimum risk - they accept responsibility for making that decision.

We have a stalemate. Mech may rest easy knowing he did all that was in his power to do, and other who may not have been aware can now make a better educated decision.

That said being a person who fights asthma daily and having been unconscious because of it on the odd occasion I don't see the problem. Paint (interior or exterior) doesn't hurt any more or less then anything else that triggers it.

I say call the mfg of the paint in question, talk it over with them include your intended use, how much you plan to use and ask them the risks involved, it may be life threatening - or it may be you just need to take care, open a window / set up fans / wear a respirator / use your brain and don't be a moron & you'll be fine.

Google is a great resource if you remember what kind of tool it is, however I wouldn't take any of that information to heart with out calling the mfg first.

Huh? So if I understand you correctly, True Value, Lowe's, CIL, Devoe, Bob Vila, Natural Handyman, etc. have absolutely no clue what they're talking about? That the information that these companies posted on their web page is incorrect? I'm happy that you'd love to put this stuff in your home and make everyone aware of it. And an asthmatic to boot!

The mildewcides and fungicides and other chemicals put into exterior paints outgas over time. there's nasty stuff in interior paint as well, just not as much.

mech

That's enough.

We have heard ALL sides on the matter.

Keep the posts on topic or we start deleting posts and locking accounts.