I changed plans about 4 times, so if you want to skip to the latest plans here are the links:

3D views (made in sketchup)
Optics and Cooling plans
Electronics plans (may change, depending on how the 10ft LVDS extension goes)
Mirror Mounting idea
LVDS Extension (seperate thread) The cable between the controller in the small box on the floor, and the LCD in the big box on the wall. Not trivial.
The TODO list. Or a count-down to projection?

Parts list:
575w eballast from Hirudin
575w HMI bulbs from Hirudin
220mm collimator fresnel from LL
10.6" lcd from Sensibull
10.6" lcd controller from simp1yamazn
650mm collector fresnel from LL
3 FS mirrors from various sources
500mm Pro Triplet from some company in China
2 Evercool PCAC fans from ebay
120mm fan from LL
Misc wires, switches, wood, threaded rods, etc from Home Depot
Ingenuity from my Dad




===== ORIGINAL FIRST POST BELOW =====

So I just can't leave my projector alone. It's a terrible affliction, DIYitis, and I'm suffering from it pretty badly.

Here's the issue: I have a giant black behemoth in my living room. A 15" pro vertical build, which is about 38" tall, and about 12x14 footprint. I dont know what I was thinking making it out of a wooden frame and covering it with black mat board. It looks good as far as giant black boxes go, but it's still a giant black box. And it leaks light a lot. And the fans are at the the bottom pointing sideways which pumps hot air at the couch and shines light in your eyes. I know this can all be fixed, but I'm cutting my losses on that one, canibalizing it, and upgrading to make it much smaller, pass the female approval test, and higher quality.

The projection is pretty good. It's fake 720p, and the image quality is quite nice, but the projection is enormous, like 90", which in my small living room is just a little too large.

More info and designs to come.

The shiny stuff:
- Pro Triplet
- 650 fres
+ 10.6" lcd panel from Sensibull
- 220 fres
- 575w light engine from Hirudin

The nifty stuff:
- 2 channel IR relay, wired up to power the projector, and one power outlet (right now: lamp next to pj)
- attic thermostat so the fans are automatic
+3 FS mirrors
+New case that is only 16x21x7" internally, hangs on the wall, and looks like real furnature (almost). Made of 0.25" mdf.
+Lightweight so it stays on the wall.




- Already have it
+ Gotta add it

==== NOT GONNA HAPPEN BECAUSE OF THE ISSUE WITH LIGHT COMING FROM THE BOTTOM OF THE BULB ====
http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=24595

Here's my design for the new projector. Made of wood, probably 0.5" mfd or something. It has DVD shelves on the sides.
You'll notice it's much much smaller than most, despite the almost 600mm second fres to triplet distance.
I'm not sure if it needs a heat shield. You'll see air intakes above the DVDs on the left side, and two 12cm fans on the top right. What do you think cooling wise?
It will be hung on a wall and the guts will be hidden behind twin doors on the front, so a person could mistake it for one of those dart board kits that close when you're not using them.
According to focalcalc II (thanks always Dazz), I should get about 70 inches from this pj, as opposed to the 90" I got before, which was a little too big (whiplash when gaming).
Click to view attachment

Here's the new, simplified electronics plans. I took out the IR relay system because it would be fairly easy to add that later, but for now it just adds complexity
Click to view attachment

Here's the best part. I'll be using the electronics box from my previous PJ, only making changes to add a 575w ballast, and a fan to cool it. I didn't ever do a PLOG before so here it is for the first time.
It's mostly a standard circuit, but instead of having it all in one box, I moved everything but the lamp, fans, and LCD out into a box that sits on the floor, out of sight. The lcd and fans are all 12vdc so two wires for them, and the bulb has it's own voltage to it has it's two wires, all four of which go through one 8 ft cord from electronics box to PJ box. This makes the PJ lighter and less cramped than most.
The extra stuff is the IR 2 relay board, which is remote controlled to turn the PJ and a standard power outlet on and off. You'll notice I had to add extra standard relays after the first IR controlled relays, because the IR ones aren't rated high enough.

Click to view attachment

edit: I'm looking at making a 10 or so foot lvds cable out of ethernet cables, so that the controller can be in the electronics box on the floor, and there only needs to be ONE cord going to the projector box on the wall. Link to that thread.

Well... I don't think anybody has successfully made a bi-fold, let alone a tri-fold, projector work.
Best of luck to you, though - I'm looking forward to seeing your results.

If it's unsuccessful, a single-fold or straight projector can typically be kept under 24" or less.

Of course they have. Right? I don't wanna be a pioneer. Oh &^%!

Um double fold is pretty old hat, and I have seen some triple folds, so go for it. Look to rear projection for multi fold ideas.

Yeah I've been doing some research. Some of the LL geniuses have said that good FS mirrors do cost you about 6% per fold (compounded, not added), so after three folds I'm down to about 83%. Not sure if I'm ok with that. I might try to redesign with only two folds, which would leave me about 88%.

I had no idea the mirrors cost so much light.

shameless bump now that this is posted in the right forum section:

Anyone wanna weigh in on the cooling question (bold a few posts up)? Also, three mirrors too many folds? Loose to much light?

I tried a simple two mirror design and had focus problems due to mis-alignment. It made me go straight shooter and my life was much easier. If you do it, make sure your mirrors are precisely adjustable.

Ok, I'll bite. Your cooling design looks good. Three mirrors would require more accurate alignments on your part since now your adding more optic plain's into the works. Not saying it can be done just as long you have the heart for it. Some like myself would rather deal with straight shooters to ease the complications of the build. Light lose will be expected but you can always overcome this by either overclocking the ballast or moving up to higher powered lamp like a 575w'r. As a suggestion, don't skimp on mirror quality since your planning 3 folds.

EDIT: Guess Sinner7 beat me to the alignment issue while I was typing the above. Great to have members share their experiences for others to take note of.

Also, I don't know how much heat is generated by the LL 400w bulb, and how efficient your cooling will be, but you might ant to keep an eye on and DVDs/cases you put near the enclosure.

thanks for the input everyone. I guess I never realized how much of an issue mirror alignment can cause. For what it's worth, I plan on having each mirror on a spring (or some tension device), pulled at approximately 45 degrees into the corners. Then to fine tune them, each mirror will have four screws, one pushing on each corner. Tighten the screw to push that corner against the force of the spring.


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Looks good and it looks like you could more accurately fine tune the mirrors that way.
If you had not thought about it yet, you might want to consider putting some kind of rubber caps on the end of the screws so the tension doesn't crack the mirrors.

Good point, but the mirrors will be glued to a thin sheet of mdf anyway (so they don't bow under the tension).

I'm worried about the bulb position in this design. I notice the salts tend to settle on the bottom of the bulb, and they could cause discoloration or dark spots if the light I'm using is coming out of the bottom of the bulb. Anyone have any experience with this issue, especially with the LL bulb?

Could I just rotate the whole design 90 degrees clockwise (obviously repositioning the cooling elements for the new design)?

So I figured out that I can't build this one as pictured, because if the light path directly down out the bottom of the bulb means light path obstruction by the salts in the arc chamber.
http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=24595



Next problem: Either I'm not thrilled about the amount of light my 400w 15" puts out, or I'm insatiably addicted to lumens like some here. I stuck this panel in my 15" build and it still isn't that bright, despite the smaller and higher quality panel (it's been stripped as far as I dare).
Next step: precon.

I've read a lot about precondensers, and I am pretty good at physics. I get the concept, I just have no idea how to pick the right precon. The calculator available on LL is Windows Excel only (it uses VB macros) so I can't use that, and anecdotal accounts aren't helping much because everyone else is using smaller bulbs for their 10.6 builds.

Somebody please tell me either what would suit me best, or how to find it?

What OS are you using?

I'm on Windows Vista and am using Open Office.org, the precon calculator seems to work fine for me...

I'm using OS X. If you feel like plugging in the numbers and just telling me the outcome I'd appreciate it.
Standard LL t15 bulb, 220mm collimator, 10.6" (270mm) lcd dimensions are 9.6" x 6" (244mm x 152mm)


Do you (or anyone else) know if anyone using a sub 200mm collimator with a 10.6?

How do I edit the title of this thread?

My projector plans have changed dramatically, from 400w to 575w, and from tri-fold, to double fold.

EDIT: nvm, I figured it out. plans for the new pj to come.

I believe you have to edit the very first post of the thread, and you will get the option to modify the title.

EDIT: nvm, I am a bit slow.

The new plans.
I'm not sure if anyone reads this, but I don't care.
Click to view attachment

So the drawing is oriented as if it's hanging on the wall, with the triplet lens facing toward you. You see, the 10.6's long edge is vertical, so that after two folds. One to turn the light upward, the second to turn it toward the triplet (toward you in the picture).

The focussing mecanism is a 'box in a box' system, but in this case, the small box holds two mirrors as well.

So, anybody have a suggestion for rollers for this focussing mechanism? Can't be too smooth or it might unfocus itself, can't be too frictionny or I'll knock the box off the wall trying to focus it. I figured I'd just use drawer rails from home depot, but I'm open to suggestions, or, better yet, links to other people's work that I can steal.

chaos, you understand that as you slide this sled either to the left or right your also shifting projection left or right.

Lol. Nope I didn't even realize that. Seriously, how did I miss that? The previous one (single fold vert) had a vertical shift when I focussed it, which wasn't so bad, but left to right I'm not so sure. I'm projecting on a bare wall, so hitting a screen isn't an issue, but it is a bit weird isn't it?

I think I'll still go through with this design because at most it will only move the image 4 or 5 inches from one extreme to the other.

I guess the alternative, while still using the same form factor, is to move the light engine, fresnels, and lcd as one unit, and leave the triplet fixed. This brings in issues of the LVDS cable moving, the airflow changing, etc etc, but it does fix the problem of light leaking out through the wide hole that the triplet slides sideways in, and the problem of mirror alignment on a moving sled... Hmm. I'm torn.

Thanks for the eye-opener sim.

If you recess the controller about an inch into the box, you can have all the cables coming out in the same place and you'll be able to hide them better (if you want). You can create a removable panel in the bottom to close off light leeks.

I could do a quick Sketchup if you're interested.

Well I want to be able to plug in and unplug devices without opening the box, so the plugs have to either stick out, or only just barely be recessed (so you can still get your fingers around the screw in bits on vga and dvi). That said, the base of the box will be an inch or so higher than the vertical sides of the box, so the plugs won't be screaming their bright colours to the whole room.

Anyone here ever heard of making a really really long LVDS cable extension? If so, their could be just one (thick) cable going from floor box to wall box (see wiring diagram in post #4). And you'd plug AV devices into the floor box (more ideal anyway). I need someone who knows about signal carrying cables to tell me how to make this work. The cable would also have 2 wires for 12vdc, and two for 95vac to the bulb. I think I might have to post this somewhere else.

I've been designing up a storm, because I'm building this summer, and there's way to much time between now and then to think of the possibilities. So here's yet another one.

10.6" panel, 575w HMI bulb, 220mm collimator, 650mm collector, 500mm triplet, 120mm fan in the projector box.
Everything else in the electronics box on the floor connected by 2 cords, one for power, one for LVDS (testing SCSI cable mod soon).

Of course, I think I might add a little more wiggle room at the top to accomodate a precon.
Click to view attachment

The light cone never gets smaller than the size of the arc image at the focal point. Make sure you leave room.

I have a new borosilicate cold mirror for that first fold if you need it.

Is that what I need? A borosilicate cold mirror? How much is that gonna set me back?

What about this? Let's say the mirror at the bottom is on a hinge (where it meets the wall). Do you think I could build a switch into the hinge, so that if someone pulls the mirror down, the PJ turns on, push it back up and the PJ turns off?
While the PJ is off, it's a 7" deep column on the wall with no holes in it and one wire coming out the bottom. While it's on is the only time you see a lens and mirror.
Click to view attachment

I like that design man, as for the mirror being an on / off switch, dont see why you cant mount a micro switch (normally closed) variety, channel a 12V DC current to one pin, then the output back down to the box on the floor connected to a 120V 12V Tripped Relay, just have to have a constant 12V DC feed available!

Bust sweet Idea man, did you find any info on extending that cable, tutorials or anything?

The cable extension project is, like all this stuff, a very slow moving project. I'm a full time student, have a full time job, and a full time girlfriend, so the DIY stuff is low on the priority list. I theorize that a SCSI cable will work, since they're designed to carry similar signals over distances of 30 ft in some cases. Testing will happen some time between two weeks from now and 2012.

LOL know the feeling man, I work for xbox full time, run my own company and have a full time wife but trust me man ya gotta make time for the hobbies, without it we go nuts

ok so u scrapped this idea???
I have a solution for the focus if i get even understand the theory that is.
cut a slot in the front of the projector box right and then mount the triplet to another board that covers the entire lenth of the slot.
you guys were talking about a sled containing the mirrors with wheels on? so just attatch this new board to the sled.(on the inside . all u see is a black felt trench or oval thingy shape)

oh and P.S. why mount your mirrors in three dimensions? Couldn't you just go up and to the left if you flip your LCD?

This idea isn't completely scrapped, neither are the others. I'm a graphic designer so, unfortunately/fortunately, the wheels never stop turning until it's time to make the design a reality, then I pick one.
your idea works, but when the triplet is all the way to the left it would need lets say 6 inches of black board to it's right to cover the hole. that means when it's all the way to the right, I need at least 6 inches of internal clearance for that board to move. And I'm going for smallest box possible. The jury's still out on this design.




The mirrors are mounted in 3 dimensions like this because it's a 10'6" panel, and the projector will be mounted on the wall. The way I have it, the 5" side of the lcd panel sticks out from the wall into the room, making the box about 6 inches deep from the wall. The alternative (and simple method) is to do regular folds, but then the long side of the lcd would stick out and the box would have to be about 10.5" deep.

If you do a mockup and measure distances between lcd and triplet and triplet and projection surface you could narrow down your focus mechanism to less than 6" of movement Im sure. unless of course this wont be a permanent fixture.
Ooh heres an idea. If you do narrow down the focal distance lets say 4" you could mount the lens triplet in an open back box on pegs all in the corners (again on the inside of the enclosure) and move it closer and farther from the last mirror.

err it would need to be deeper this way:( the triplet would obstruct the light from the first mirror.
well Im routing for ya. keep up the good work.

I can't believe I didn't try this idea already... Go back to post 3 and turn your computer upside down (if it's a laptop-- I won't be held responsible if you hurt yourself trying to turn over a CRT). Or just look at my newest design. It solves the original problem of the salts in the bottom of the arc chamber affecting the image.



Click to view attachment


BTW, if anyone wants to use one of these other designs I don't care. Maybe a link back would be nice.

bonus!

i think a precon above the 575w bulb might get too hot. hot air rises and all that?

Aren't my sleds sexy? I have three of them, one is set up for the lamp (reflector and precon mounts to be added), one for the LCD, and one for the fresnels (not pictured).


Click to view attachment


If you're wondering, that's JB-KWIK epoxy holding them together. I've tried about 4 kinds of glue and this stuff is awesome. Dries in 4 minutes, strength in 10, and only gets harder with heat. I glued it because drilling screw holes in perfect alignment would be really difficult.

There's L shaped bits of mat board glued to the frame so that the lcd just sits comfortably in place. All the FFCs are slightly reinforced by quite liberal coats of rubber cement.

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Sorry about the grainy cameraphone photos.

Updated Plans to be more realistic measurement-wise (includes room for frames, threaded rods, etc). The Dimensions aren't quite as impressive at 16.7" wide x 19" tall x 7" deep internally, but still much more appetizing than any other 720p pro build I've seen.


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chaos, are you planning on placing another mount on the HMI? I'm concerned that after long use heat and weight might cause stress and shatter at either end of the arc globe.

I was thinking about it. The bulb is very very light, and I don't feel that weight would be an issue, but just in case I think I will.

I have the other mount which came with the bulb, and it just fits snuggly around the other end of the bulb, so that the bulb is replaceable even if you can't move the mounts themselves (because they're screwed in tight and you can't be bothered getting a tiny wrench).

True, I'm concerned that if a loose end were to detach it might touch a metal frame thats somehow was tied in to others and might seriously short out something or other, possibly cause injury. The ignitor pushes out alot of wattage just to start up the lamp

It's not a conductive metal. I don't know what it is, but the mounts are not conductive at all.

chaos86

You might want to put an ohm meter at two points on the same rail and see if you don't get a reading. That sure looks like
aluminum to me and that's conductive. It might not kill ya but it will sure get your attention if you become part of the circuit.

Oh yes, the frames are aluminum, and yes they're conductive. The dark coloured metal, the only metal that touches the bulb, the metal that the bulb is screwed tightly on to, is not conductive at all. I even dremeled the surface of it a bit to get two good points to touch the leads to, not even a blip. And this is my dad's (electrical engineer) digital multimeter with 3 settings for testing continuity.

I've been working.

The box is made of a farily lightweight variety 1/4" mdf, with glue, backed up by nails. I've read a lot about this, and it seems many think that 1/4" wouldn't give you the strength you need, but I'm not putting the ballast in the box, and almost everything inside is made of aluminum, so the pro lens is the only real weight.