I removed all layers bar the polars on both sides of my 10.6”. I used no water to remove the two silver layers. The first silver layer came up in one piece and left behind a solvent gum type residue. The next silver layer I pulled it up in strips deliberately, there was no residue at all left on the polar. The front A/G layer I soaked with water for a couple of hours but it tore in two, in my opinion wasn’t water soluble. I managed to remove the last piece leaving a mark at the tear line which I removed with mentholated spirits. Basically no water touched the polars and so far I see no graining. My 17” Samsung has had the A/G removed from both sides. I was very careful not to let any water touch the bare polars. Any droplets that did happen to splash onto the polar when I was pulling them up, I quickly blotted using tissue. A friend of mine has the same 17” Samsung and he water soaked it, in my opinion far too long. After the strip there was visible graining to the texture of the polar, not enough to split the grain so that white lines appeared though. It wasn’t until he decided to clean the LCD with a damp cloth and while it was still hot that things went haywire. Immediately when the water from the cloth touched the hot polar, it spit the grain making white lines to appear. They did disappear, not completely, after the water had some time to evaporate.
I think the problem is the water more so than the heat. Although heat may cause the damaged polar to deteriorate quicker. I think that once water has had a chance to break the chemical bond of the PVC it will always be broken. PVC is water soluble and any water that is absorbed by the polar will make it expand. When it shrinks back it splits at the weakest points, in this case where the iodine or other polarising additives are lined up. A good analogy would be the way that exposed timber splits after being wet and dried many times outside in the elements.
Most of this is just untested theory so it may not be the case.

DJ

Thanks DAZZ, what is your opinion on leaving the AG intact on the panel though? Based on your friends experience and mine it just seems riskier to have the polar exposed either way.

If I had another 10.6 I think I would leave the A/G on, it was a real pain to remove. In other words, if the water soak doesn't permeate the A/G and it doesn't come up with little effort (peeling cling wrap), leave it alone.

EDIT:
And only water soak for the bare minimum of time. Too much time and the water will saturate the glue between the A/G and the polar and start entering the PVC.

Is this the time that I break out the self-righteous dance and tell people "I told you so!" j/k.

Anyway, I think that AG strip helps or not depending on the rest of the build, and in particular, the lamp and projection lens used. The smaller the arc length of the lamp, the less likely the AG will have a signifigant effect. The shorter the FL of the triplet, the less likely. The larger the diameter of the triplet, the less likely. The better the build focuses the lamp at the entrance to the triplet, the less likely. At some point in these factors the amount becomes close enough to zero.

The silvered layers, those I will be removing on my 10.6. The AG... I don't think so, and certainly not until after my build is up and running. I think I may be challenging Durachko on that build time, though, considering how little I've got done on it in the last year...

Agreed Supra, although, this flaw of the ‘graining polar’ after removing antiglare is the biggest nuisance in the mod, I can honestly say that I, personally, learned a lot during the antiglare thread. The amount of work from everybody most especially from Mark and Elken2004 greatly helped me understand how these LCD’s operated via polar and crystals. And, of course, at the time our goal was to ‘squeeze’ every drop of brightness as well as clarity out of our projections and not so much the consequences thereafter. Now, that I realize how important it is to protect the polarizing layer in the long run I’ve changed my ways, so to speak, so I now advocate polishing the antiglare instead. Undoubtedly, all these glareless desktop and laptop panels were designed specifically to be viewed as they are and that is just plain monitors. To get around the antiglare issue from the get-go would simply be searching for the ‘gloss’ types instead.

One thing I’ve noticed though, is how these LCD monitor manufacturers dealt with making some of these ‘gloss’ type panels. My last 10.6” was at the start labeled as glossy by way of encapsulating (gluing) atop the antiglare polar with another glare-less polar. It was a matter of easily peeling off this film that revealed the antiglare/polar layer underneath it. I wondered if just leaving both intact would have produced better blacks plus it would have saved me the effort of polishing the antiglare altogether. I can't explain why I just didn't do just that but I guess I still had my sights for better brightness and such, it's really a desease. I have not opened up my new 10.6” replacement yet but if this is the same than you might guess what I have plan for it next. Of course I’d still have to remove the loose silver sheets including the ones adhesed at the rear.......... ......I think I needs medication....

well if its any consolation sim
i learned a lot from your strip

infact its what inspired me to strip my 10.6 in the first place

Glad you found it informative for you jeffek cause it's now time for round 2

Just plugged in 10.6" #2 as assurance that what I had bought from ebay works with the MST controller originally bought from johnzo. ***ZING*** Of course there shouldn't have been much doubt seeing it's the same LCD model as my first but one can never be sure.....rigghhht?

DAMMIT,.....I'm currently down to half a bottle of whiskey...........ooooboy, this is gonna hurt.

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Booyah! I just found both layers at a corner with a exacto knife and pulled them up at one try. Tore 3/4's of the way, though . Now, to tackle the glue residue....anyone, anyone?. In the meantime will try a corner with some water and a Q-tip. At least now the TAC is intacted...hehe TAC for tact.

Oh, and the 10.6" is glossy, that is I assume non-antiglare polar placed above antiglared polar on the front of the panel. This time around I'm not touching this and see what I come up with and forgo the polish.

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Didn't I say to dry peel the first reflective layer and 2 hour water soak the second layer so the glue would wipe off?

Darn penguin ducks with no ears must can't hear or read.

Some members rubbed it off with their fingers I think. Took over an hour and left a blister if I remember correctly.

I got's your penguin right heah, johnnyboy BTW, our date is off!

Well, since I've pulled both off guess it's a direct soak on the glue residue then. DAM, it's gonna be a long 2 hrs. Even tried the finger rub......and ah, HELL NO!

so... how's the soak coming along sim ?

Glue residue is still putting up a good fight. 2 hours into it and no sign of 'just wiping off'. I've been actually fooling around with the 'rub' and it seems to be working but - what an effort! So now I have the rest soaking for a bit more longer. I'm just afraid of having the water soak to long and then ultimately right through the TAC and then that comes off, that would be really upsetting.

Yeah, glue residue is nasty stuff. Better you than me is all I can say about that.

Well, I just couldn't take it anymore. The residue was not giving up that easily, so, I took another approach by way of chemicals. Tried a few items within reach such as rubbing alchy with swab...no go, tried nail polish remover...still no go. I then rummaged through my garaged and found a can of Gum Turpintine that barely had enough in it. So, I swabbed and something seemed to be happening. I dabbed my finger in the sauce and plopped on a few drops in areas of the panel and rubbed it in. Thereafter I began using my finger nail scrapping and sure enough the gunk started coming up easily. I made sure I didn't touch any of the ribbons, so, within 45 mins I had a clear panel. I buffed the TAC with some Mothers and it shined up nicely. I spent the whole night and morning fixing the projector back up again with the modded panel and BAM, did she look pretty again on screen. Even played a few hours of movies and MotorStorm on the PS3. I also had the digital 5.1 surround going with woofer....I'm in 720p heaven, guys...that's all I gotta say. Looking forward to movie night soon.

ag polishing. have link?

You mean when first found?

Or where can you find it?


http://www.mothers.com/retailers/

BTW: I saw it on the shelves of my local Walmart in the automotive section.

screenies please lol

sim, what are the specs on the first condenser lens in your super pre-con setup?

More? Maybe when I get a completed project thread going.


Don't know, just that it is meniscus and believe made of borosiliate since it's close to the 575w lamp. Been searching online for similars but kinda hard to find within US. I believe it has a diameter of 70-75mm. BTW, it came off the commercial Proxima projector, model #9100.

is it a negative meniscus lens? I saw a 9100 on ebay a few days ago, but I missed it. =(

Oh right, it's positive meniscus. BTW, if your planning on attempting to achieve the high amount of brightness I obtained previously - similar to this setup - than be advised that I was pushing the envelope by bringing in the reflector and the precon very close to the lamp. Not within their focals of both. It produced a lot of heat in the process not to mention vignets were much apparent. I since moved the reflector and precon within a guessimate focal distance from the lamp and a quick lux meter test shows an average of 117's on sides/corners and 115 on center measuring 55" x 92" projection. With the equal balance throughout the screen right now I'm really, really impressed and satisfied on how it looks overall and may just leave it as it is.

Very nice.

snagged a 9100 off of ebay today!

not sure yet if i want the ballast so it might be up for grabs.

Hi SIM,

I haven't been around here in a while. But the anti-glare posts here caught my interest for some reason .

You have found that an exposed polarization layer will grain over time? Conclusively? Maybe this is from UV exposure? Good to finally get a result here, good or bad. SonicWonder and I found that an over soaked polarization layer (or presumably, just a sensitive one) would become brittle as it dried. Flexing the polarizer would micro-crack the now brittle polarization layer along the polarization axis, creating a grainy appearance.

Polishing has always been an attractive option. Abandonment of TAC removal would likely lead to a perfected polishing technique. Encapsulation was another option we didn't pursue much.

Someone posted here that their replacement polarizer lead to greyed blacks. Are people still using the Super High Contrast Polarizer (available at polarization.com) as a replacement? It was the only one that came close to recommendable.

Is anti-glare defeat not still considered a worthwhile endeavor?

Stripping my Sharp WUXGA led to buggered polars. I removed them completely and put the Super HC polarizers from polarization.com against the bare panel. No greyed blacks for me, real sharp. Can be done, but trick is to cut them correctly and mounted firmly against the panel.

Hey Mark, long time no hear Conclusively...well, in my experience I'd have to say yes. But then I'm not the kind to just settle with mediocre brightness and along with it - heat. Maybe others have had long sustaining succesful AG removals but I have loss to graining far to often in my past builds. And polishing is about as the next best thing to actual removal, again, by my experience. Exposing polar panel is just far to sensitive and risky. EDIT: Is defeating antiglare worthwhile?....most definately, it's in the clarity.

I'd like to try SHC polar some day or maybe as an addition to the original polars on my 10.6" Samsung, but even at the price of sheet alone is not in my plans at this time.

Just a little update, I just used the projector for this Halloween. Unfortunately there weren’t that much kiddies that visited my court but the scheme I had going made an impressive impact with the lil’ goolies who did and their accompanying parents.
Had a little trouble trying to get the laptop to switch the screensaver I wanted to show onto the projector but this 3d version I used worked pretty well. Enjoy.


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This little guy was trying to catch a pumpkin

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Here's a close up of the skulls.

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When it was finally dark.

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Across the street.

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All i can say is WOW...

I hadnt read your plog before tonight and this is truly incredible! It has always amazed me the lengths LL members go to really make their PJs look good but that thing looks awesome. Perhaps when i get some more time and have some money to spare, I may attempt to make something like that. For the moment I guess ill have to make do with my OHP and laptop build held together with tape at the moment. However this has inspired me to go the extra mile and make it look half decent.

Keep up the good work.

Appreciated Blaize, keep plugging away at your design and you'll come up with something your most especially proud of. One thing I'll comment at the moment is to keep the materials light cause I'm already finding this lil' monster a bit heavy to move around with.

nice work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


it took 20 min to read

Now Sim, I'm wondering how the 3 condenser design works? Doesn't the differing focal lengths on each lens vary the focus greatly? I'm sure this has been answered, but I'm too lazy to look through all the posts, so please bear with me.

Actually 2 precondensers, one is positive meniscus (smaller) and the other is a plano/convex (larger). The plano/convex is 4.5" diameter with 6.5" focal, the meniscus is unknown at about 65-70mm dia which was taken out of a Proxima 9100 in a 3 piece condenser set. I only use the smaller of the 3 which was up against the HMI 575w in the Proxima along with the 4.5" I bought off of ebay. The 4.5" was said to have been from stage lighting equipment . I suppose the focals do vary but I believe it's how the 2 types of lenses work with each other to harvest and converge the rays from the HMI arc towards the screen. In the past I've done alot of hunting for the meniscus but was unproductive.

BTW, both lenses are of the pyrex type and take the heat of the lamp well.

Sim,

An excellent build man! I was wondering if you can give me some advise on mine thus far based on what Ive done with it. Irt would be very beneficial if you could give me some incite. I really want it to work great.

sim , sim , this is your conscience speaking .

sell jeff your 10.6" panel .. wooooooo ... woooo and buy a 12" for your new pj build



lol lol