I wanted to experiment with a large FS mirror but didn't want to spend a fortune so I went to the local Wal-Mart and bought a mirror for less than $4.00, I went over to automotive and bought a can of "Aircraft Stripper" and I was ready. (sorry these are so big, I am tired and already sized em!)
Oh, AND WEAR GLOVES, THIS STUFF BURNS YOUR SKIN!!!


Ready to strip the back to make my own FS mirror. (yes, that is a reflection of frilly bra!)


Here is the stripper


Stripper working...


Cleaning off paint/stripper with tap water, rinse with DI water to prevent water spots


Mirror completed, it looks great and ready to install... after cleaning. Remember to clean it carefully
as there is no longer a layer of glass to protect the mirror.
Use the same precautions and cleaning that you would your RPTV mirror.

Sorry I have a couple of questions. How much did the stripper cost? How long did you let it set? How well does it reflect? Do you think you have any loss in color quality? And I'm confused, if you stripped the back of the mirror, then how did it become a fs mirror without adding anything for the front?

It was stripped down to the reflective layer. The new mirror layer is the side that used to be the back.

By the way, nice stripping info.

ohh ...neat.

so you put this stuff on the back of a normal 2nd surface miror and thaen how long do you let it sit for?

looks like you achieved some really nice results there!
do you plan to use this stripped mirror instead of a FS mirror or is it just a temporary test?
if you have a FS mirror there how does the stripped mirror compare with regards to quality as surely the proper FS mirror would be of a much higher standard than a cheap normal mirror?
am i correct that a FS mirror is sealed so that it is possible to clean without rubing the metal off, and if so the stripped mirror would not have this...then leading to a very delicate surface?

Thanks for all the replies..
The "Aircraft Remover" (stripper) is about $5.00 USD and is available at Wal Mart and all auto parts stores. I left it set for about 15 minutes and came back and using a paper towel I rubbed the stripper around a little and could see it was starting to come off, so I re-sprayed it and left it for about 15 more minutes and then (using laytex gloves) I rinsed it off with warm water. I could see a few places that was stuborn so I took it back to the garage and srayed stripper on those areas. When I came back about 10 minutes later it was ready to rinse off.
The stripper really burns if it gets on your skin so make sure you wash your hands and arms well... the stuff is pretty enviromentaly friendly though and you can run it down the drain.
You should put newspapers down where you are going to strip as the paint mixed with the stripper comes off in clumps
I did a final rinse using some de-mineralized water and placed it in front of a fan to dry. (make sure you clean the stripper off the back (formerly front) of the mirror as it tends to migrate around there as you are rinsing it!
I am going to use it in my 17" vertical and I will let you guys know how the picture looks. A visual inspection of the mirror shows a very nice flat mirrored surface and since I know of a few builders that has used 'standard' mirrors with some success (but with ghosts or double images due to reflecting off of the glass) I see no reason this won't work as a low-cost alternative.. (it sure looks like one of those expensive jobs! )

The nice thing about it is you can make a very large FS mirror and place it at the best location without trying to use a small expensive FS mirror (to save money) and placing it out near the converging point.
If anyone has any questions I'll try to answer 'em

Thanks Lothar...

As I understand it the mirror companies use the same reflective metals on all their mirrors as they are mainly trying to get as natural reflection as possible.
I worried that the flatness of the glass in a cheap mirror might be a problem but it seems not the case.
I found that a lot of FS mirrors are not sealed as they want to have a completly reflective surface so the light isn't passing through and other layers. I was cleaning my rear-projection TV screen mirror and tried to compare them and they looked the same, there wasn't any color variation.. I had my wife and daughter (young eyes! ) to inspect it and they thought it looked just as good as the FS mirror in the TV!
Here is a good write-up on cleaning FS mirrors:
http://www.holographyforum.org/HoloWiki/in...leaning_Mirrors

I am going to test several cleaning methods on a 'test' mirror to check how delicate surfaces can be polished and cleaned.. I'll report back here.

i had heard about people that had made their own FS mirrors(Elken i think) but didn't know they turned out this well...would save a bit of change anyway!
could i just ask, what is the "aircraft stripper", is it just some kind of acetone or nail polish remover?

'Aircraft Stripper" is simply paint remover, I don't think acetone is strong enough (the main ingredient in nail-polish remover is acetone along with some fragrance).
Tonight I will try using regular paint remover to test it as the 'aircraft remover' might not be available world-wide.. (I always thought that was a stupid name 'aircraft remover' shouldn't it be "aircraft PAINT remover"? )
I think the best paint removers are the ones found in auto parts stores as they have to be strong enough to attack the superman-style finishes on cars these days!

There are plenty of other types of paint strippers I've had good luck with the orange oil based ones and thier not as dangerous, still dangerous but less so and the orage smell beats the chemicals. Have only used it to strip wood work ussually needs to sit for hours rather than minutes but it seems to do a good job.

aircraft stripper is safe for aluminum.

hence the reason it is aircraft stripper.

I just did this yesterday on a 16"x20" WalMart mirror using the same stripper... WONDERFUL!!!!!!!

Hint - don't skip, or rush the 2nd pass... even if it seems clean the first time, do a second pass to clean any remnants off... it will save you time later. I ended up with a FS mirror that's awesome... only a very few specks of sunlight make it through... looks like better than most commercially graded "94% reflective".

Now... if I can just get this Sony 50" HDTV-RPTV rebuilt... it had a trashed mirror and 50" plastic screen assy, I stripped off all of the upper cabinetry, just the electronics & optics housing remains. I'm going to try either a fabric or dazian rear proj. material at 46" diag.

Original mirror was larger, but I have a longer throw distance available, so I'm hoping the smaller mirror will still work.

Hey, that is great news!! I agree with your method to not rush the second pass.. like yourself, I too found my homebuilt FS mirror was superior to some commercial FS mirrors!!!!
That is a cool idea with the RPTV. I read on here someone had a trashed RPTV and using a homebuilt PJ placed it in the unit and it was clearer and brighter than it was when it was new!
Will be looking forward to your results using the homemade FS mirror!!!

thanks for this info, it's when u read posts like these u actually know there's some hope for us stupid human thingys! without us the world would probably be a better place, but it would be completely without DIY FS mirrors, and we cant have that can we!

LOL!! So true, my friend!

HI WULFF Great to see the success you have had with the diy FS mirror
Just got one question? what is the active ingredient in the "Aircraft Stripper" that you use.
I have also tried to do an FS mirror with little luck using common paint stripper (Dichloromethane+Methanol).
this had no effect on the backing! on several different types of mirror.

Hi Brandy...
I will check and see what is in the stuff as soon as I get home,,
-Wulff

CHEERS FOR THAT LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR REPLY

question for ya wulff. I tried the aircraft stripper and mirror and it worked pretty well but ran into a snag. the stripper took the backing off pretty well but it needed to be scraped off. did u have to do that as well and if so how did u make sure not to scratch the surface?

I was wearing latex gloves and after I stripped it 2 times there was a few stuborn areas that I rubbed gently with a gloved finger under running (warm) water.
I think a better idea is to keep re-applying, rinsing and drying until it all removed.... it will all come off without rubbing.. a trick you can use that I have used with this stripper is after you lay down a layer of stripper, cover it with plastic (a plastic garbage bag works well) and this lets the chemicals work without drying out.

AAAHHHHH, as I was writing this standing at the kitchen countertop on my laptop and my daughters new kitten just climbed all the way up my leg, up my back to perch her little black body on my shoulder!! crap, that little girl has SHARP claws and is FAST!!!!!

Note to Brandy: I just checked the ingredients on the Aircraft Remover (which incidently says on the back "DO NOT USE ON AIRCRAFT!" ) it contains: Methanol and Methylene Chloride.

Well, I better go play with this kitty before she jumps down on the keyboard!!! and I thought my Ferret was a pest!!!

Just stripped my $4 walmart mirror. Don't rub with paper towel, it will actually scratch the substrate. Just let the stuff do its job, rinse, repeat. I am wondering what kind of coating this is. I work at a large plating company and our chrome, or nickel for that matter, isn't this delicate by a long shot. I thought about trying to make a chrome FS mirror, but polishing a piece of metal that well would probably be more trouble that its worth.

You are right about scratching the surface, I should have mentioned I used a paper towel to move the slimey paint remover around, but you are right..... even if it takes several strip, rinse, dry sessions it is worth it and ALWAYS final rinse with DI water so it can dry spotfree.

Most mirrors these days are made by an aluminizing process instead of a silvering process, but you can make a mirror yourself by using silver nitrate, distilled water and ammonia, but it's a bit involved.
Amateur telescope makers do it themselves sometimes, as some of them would prefer to make their mirrors completely by themselves. (I never had the dedication!)

IT DOESNT LOOK THAT HARD TO DO BUT AFTER WATCHING "MAKING A GLASS MIRROR" ON YOU TUBE ,
IT LOOKS LIKE THE END RESULT IS NOT AN FS MIRROR WHICH IS WHAT WE REQUIRE, BUT A GOOD RESULT ALL THE SAME.

DO NOT RUB OFF AFTER APPLICATION rinse only!

I made this mistake and itll cost me another $4.00 *shrug* Its an easy process: spray, wait, rinse, repeat. take some time to do this, its easy and simple.

I agree!! I could see small swirls on mine.. it is also important to use d.i. water to final rinse it. I am trying to find some protectant that we could use that would help keep it clean.
It is important in any PJ to have filters to keep your mirrors and lenses clean. I used the keyboard spray to clean off the mirror.
I have been using the mirror you see in this post in my PJ since I completed it and it is working great! I removed it to shoot the projection out the end like a horizontal PJ and my wife and I could see no difference in picture quality or brightness.

Thanks to everybody that has tried this and added their experiences to this thread, with everyones help we can really keep the cost of a folded design down and it is cheap enough to allow you to experiment with different sizes.... which would be very costly if you were using 'aftermarket' FS mirrors.

I use a soft flexible plastic scraper for when I strip furniture so I don't damage the wood.

anyone see a reason why I couldn't use one of them to clean off the mirror?

Or is the surface that delicate that I could scratch it?

It is pretty delicate but if it's kept dust free there isn't any issures.. I did try cleaning mine with windex and a baby diaper to polish it and it worked great.
You can purchase diapers and detail cloths at Auto Zone.

The scraper left a couple of lines.
nothing major, but I found just putting the mirror in the shower (when the wife wasn't home) & using the shower head cleaned the rest off just fine.

also, it dried with little spotting.

I have windex & baby!!
So i'll give that diaper thing a try.

Make sure you have a soft diaper that has been washed without fabric softener or dried with a dryer 'sheet' as it may cause streaks.. you could wash one out by hand just to be safe..

Did anyone else's $4 wal-mart mirror have an absurd amount of glue on it?

Can I use something to soften this glue, it is impossible to carve it off

PS. its a 14"x12", in a frame.

Mine didn't have any glue on it, where is the glue on yours? I was wondering if you are using the same mirror that I am?
If you let the stripper set with some plastic film on top it will usually soften anything up!
Let us know.


I was just looking at my PJ and was testing the mirror VS running the PJ as a regular horizontal PJ without the mirror and I can see no degrade in the picture in brightness or clarity so is really worth the trouble!

I think they should make this thread a sticky as it is exactly the kind of things DIY'ers have fun doing and you guys are coming up with great questions and results !

The sticker on the back says:
Nikolai 11x14 Mirror Asst.-6

ohhh, your's is glued to the frame.
That is understandable it is a bigger mirror with what looks like a wooden frame.

The $4 one I got has a plastic frame & the mirror is held on with cardboard & steel clips that look like the end of a paper clip.

I can't help you.
A razer blade might hit the mirrored surface.
Maybe running it under really hot water for a little might make it pliable enough to peel off?

I bought 3, and with the sticky-out, I cracked the corner of one, then used the rest as practice; I got a small scratch on the edge of a second from the knife slipping, but it should be out of the way if planned right; The third one came off perfectly. I still haven't stripped the backs off yet, but did test on an edge of the cracked one, it looks beautiful!

Just to let everyone know, I thought I would give it a try but our walmart was all out of mirrors. So, I went to Lowes and got some cut to size mirror; no dice. I guess the paint stripper process doesn't seem to work on all mirrors. I don't know what they use on it, but NONE of it came off after hours and hours of application, rinse, application..., even scrubbing. I used the same Aircraft brand too. It's a shame too, the Lowes mirror is nice and thick. I wonder if they use some sort of anodizing process or something. Anyway, I guess it only works on the ones with cheap paint.

I had the same luck, more or less, with cut mirrors from Home Depot. Though I finally did get the backing to come off, the ordeal always left the mirror marred.

How did you mange to get any of it off?

I'm going to guess the HD & LOWES mirrors are thicker & probably made a different way.

I left the stripper on for days. Literally.

It's true that some mirrors strip better than others... I think the cheap-o mirrors like our Wal-Mart $4 mirrors are the best.
I will pick up some more from different stores to see how it works.
It might be a little tedious making your own FS mirror but the results are great and even though I don't have a filter yet on my PJ I found if you hit it with the can of dust 'remover' (the kind for cleaning keyboards) it makes it like new again.
I am still waiting on a Pro-Triplet I bought from a member and when I install it (if I ever get it! ) I will get some screen shots to show how clear the projected image is. As I mentioned awhile back the image looked the same (in clarity and brightness) regardless if I was 'shooting' out the end of the box vs bouncing it off the diy FS mirror.
If anyone still is having problems with removing the backing let me know as I have access to some other strippers and will let you guys know what works as good or better than the Aircraft Remover.

Well, if you get a chance to test other strippers on other mirrors (like Lowes), I'd me interested in hearing about it. I have a bunch of mirror sitting around now that I have no use for, unless someone finds a magical stripper. If you'd like a piece let me know. I have a glass cutter so I could lop off a chunk and send it to you to experiment with.

Just for the curious...Silvering mirrors.

here

here

Hi there,

I talked to a guy at a mirror shop about making a FS mirror. What he told me is that it is possible, but unless you get a specially made FS mirror then the ones you make will become useless within a month or so. This is due to oxidation. Silver is highly oxidating and tarnishes easily. Apparently pro fs mirrors have a coating that keeps the air off the silver. The mirrors made here will eventually tarnish I imagine. Is there anyway around this ?

Thanks
Chris

BTW. How badly does using a regular rear surface mirror affect the projection? WIll the ghosting be really notcieable?

Yes, it will be noticeable. Now, whether or not it bothers you will depend on your degree of obsessiveness. Mine, like many others around here, is off the charts so I would never stop looking at the ghosting long enough to enjoy the movie.

Well I'd like to use a normal mirror until my FS mirror arrives. Can I use a regular mirror to align all the optics and everything and then just swap the same size FS mirror in where I used the regular mirror for testing?

C

Absolutely.

I wonder about using this method to strip a garden gazing ball? Wouldn't that leave you with a large, spherical mirror, assuming you cut it in half?

Someone, somewhere, somewhen did cut a gazing ball in half. I'm sure I saw that.