Yep. I also remember the gazing ball thread. It's in here somewhere.

Here....Jefftt gazing ball.

Tgreenwood

People call it mirror rot & it usually only happens when you cut the mirror as then the sides of the material are exposed to air.

however, I don't think the wallmart mirrors are made of silver.
Their made of aluminum???

It's been almost a month (Sep 3) since I stripped part of a mirror to test, there is no visible tarnishing or degradation. This mirror has also still been used in the bathroom ever since it was stripped (didn't have a use for it as it is cracked). So I would guess aluminum.

Yes, very likely aluminum.
Most mirrors these days are made with an aluminizing process instead of the traditional silvering.
Even parabolic telescope mirrors are largely done with aluminum these days.

As far as why some have had issues with 'mirror tiles' well, you have to consider that the coating they put on the back of those is intended to have glue like Liquid Nails or other construction adhesive applied to that surface to hold them to wall surfaces, and if it came off to easily, it wouldn't be very good for sales!

Mine has been stripped for nearly 4 months now and it looks just like the day I "made" it... I think years ago they used pure silver to make mirrors and as everyone knows silver will tarnish in the open air but there are different 'mirroring' processes now that won't tarnish (I never saw a silvered-mirrored mylar balloon tarnish!!

That's cool! You guys aren't having problems with the mirrors tarnishing. My neighbor works at a car paint shop and said that he could help me strip and clear coat the mirror. Technically it wouldn't be a real front surface mirror but it'd be pretty close. But now that you guys are saying they look great after several months, hopefully I wont have to clear coat it. But then it would protect the surface from light scratches as long as the clear coat doesn't flake off.

I thought about doing that myself, I might try it out in the future.
Last night I took my homemade FS mirror out to re-arrange everything as I am going to a Pro lens and since it was sitting uncovered for a few months I decided to clean it.... well, the truth is I got fingerprints on it while 'snaking' it out of my smallish PJ box!!
I took it over to the faucet and using some liquid dish washing soap I used my bare fingertips on it (gently) while running warm tap water over it. After I was done and I rinsed it till the soap was gone I poured distilled waster over it and then put it in front of a fan till it was dry.
It looks just like the day I made it!

Something I will be trying soon: I am looking into 'coating' it with a water-rinsing auto wax to put on it to make cleaning even easier.. I have been doing some experimenting in this area and will post results. What I am hoping for is a thin barrier that will prevent dust from sticking and can be cleaned with a little puff of "keyboard" cleaner.

i had a go at creating my own mirror, but ran into difficulties.
the only mirror of roughly the right size was one i found at b&q. the mirror its self i think is meant to be stuck onto a wall, with a kind of green finish to the back.

when using paint stripper very little happened (in fact nothing)when left for a few hours. i noticed that a fine brush (tooth brush) when rubbing gently took off the green leaving a weird brick red substance(kind of like clay).
with a bit more rubbing this eventually came off leaving the shiny mirror. eventually once all was exposed i washed the mirror but found that the red stuff had been slightly abrasive causing lots of really (and i mean really!) fine scratches.
also when using the mirror just to test alighnment i noticed it had also gone slightly transparent (i think i may have rubbed a bit too hard).

in conclusion i would recommend that anyone trying this not to use the mirrors found at B&Q's.
in the end i am having to buy one...at least i tried i guess!

A few posts above I mentioned that these won't work, as others have tried.
The reason being again is that that coating is definitely intended not to come off, because mirror tiles are intended to be mounted using construction adhesive, and if that coating came off, that would be a very bad thing as people would be having self applied mirror tiles falling off all the time.

Fmerrill is right, those mirrors are made to have it's strength to hold them in the 'covering'... ironically the best mirrors for 'converting' to a FS mirror is a cheap one! You can also find them in department stores in about any size you want.
You might try checking your distances and mounting ideas before you convert the mirror (by using the original side) that way you don't have to be so careful about fingerprints and scratches.... in a vertical though remember if you drop anything it goes straight to the LCD!!!

Very clever. Methylene chloride is a very powerful organic solvent which means that the backing on your mirror has to be some sort of plastic. Ones that have a papered or cardboard-like backing will dissolve very poorly (although the glue that holds it on will probably come off). That would explain the need to "scrape" things off. The key is to have a backing that's entirely made of plastic or just an extremely thin paper that's glued on (ergo, cheaper is good).

i bought one of those walmart mirrors and tried it out, and the main ingrediants in the spray i used is methel ethol keytone and it worked very nicely except that the mirror has a golden reflection. im going to try a different mirror, but it just think that is a bit strange.

Did you use the same mirror I had pictured? I am wondering if your mirror was discolored when it was made? After all we are looking at the "back" of the mirror. If you used the stripper I used there shouldn't be anything in it to cause the gold-look. Hmmmmm gonna look into that.
I am going to try a few different ideas I have and will post results here.. cuz I need a new mirror.. while builbing my 'folded' design I have made so many changes it took a toll on my FS mirror! I had to cut it down in size and I had stuck it to an aluminum frame using RTV, by the way, RTV is a GREAT way to attach your mirror but you shouldn't try to take it off again (like I did!!! )
I scratched up my mirror in that escapade but the picture still looked good.. go figure!
Besides, it gives me a chance now to try a few things I promised everyone I was gonna report on!

actually i did a bit of testing. I used a little bit different stuff. it is in the paint section of walmart and it comes in like a golden brown shiny can. i also tried the Aircraft stripper in like a side by side. As it turns out the mirrors with the black frames (because there is black and brown) i think have that golden tint to them. i also discovered that the brown can i used works a little better. i have yet to figure this out as they both use methylene chloride. but i live in illinois and it is hard to keep an space with adaquate ventilation heated to the right temperate in the middle of winter. I have gotten one mirror almost stripped but little stubborn pieces wont come off even with longer duration and more chemical. and have tried a second but not its got saw dust on it because my step moved it to the garage and i hope that i can get that off without scratching it. its has become a my own little pain in the ass.

does eneone know if there are any "Aircraft stripper" like paintstrippers in europe ?

I have been doing some more experimenting and found that almost any of the available paint strippers will work pretty good! Just go to a paint store or an auto parts store and ask for paint removers.... (don't tell them what you want it for or they will think you're crazy!! LOL!)
If you can't find it in the netherlands, let me know.

NOTE to Econis: If you get dust on it, rinse with distilled water, that is what I did when the mirror sat for a few months uncovered (and we have a LOT of dust here in Arizona!!!!

ok thanks for the advice

does the paint stripper need to be a spray paint stripper ?
ore should i just try it out

happy new year to evreone !!

And a happy (late) new year to you!
If you can't find any spray-on stripper I would pour on some first. You could use a brush and put on a heavy layer and let it work long enough to lift all the coating then rinse it in warm water. Always use DI water for the final rise though!
Good luck!

Hey guys.

I've tried 6 or 7 cheap non-tile mirrors (from various stores) now, all using the same walmart airplane stripper. I still can't get a clean aluminum finish!

Either:

a) the backing comes off *immediately* (you can see it bubbling up as you spray it on), yet when you wash it off, the backing has a very unreflective copper-like finish to it.

or the finish takes about 10 spray/wash cycles to get to about 50% coverage of the backing and then it kind of stagnates and barely comes off at all. Even using various durations (5min to 24hrs) and various temperatures, even a hair dryer. At this point, two of the mirrors started getting marred copper tinted spots in the more washed locations.

Any suggestions?

brick

Maybe you could try stretching a piece of clear saran-wrap carefully over the surface? It's not thick enough to provide any distortion, and it's cheap enough to just pull off and replace when it gets dusty. Or do you think the heat would cause discoloration or warping?

I picked up one with a black frame as well and it too had a golden sheen to it. I thought it was maybe because the walls in my house are a light brownish color and it was just picking up weird reflections, but maybe not. Maybe I'll try the brown framed mirror.

I am also having another interesting problem, I am getting severe (at least I think it is) ghosting in my projection. I have ruled out it being the cabling, the LCD, the fresnel, and any alignment issues regarding those items. The only thing left is the mirror. I can adjust angles and distances until I am blue in the face, but nothing seems to help. Has anyone else experienced this with a DIY FS Mirror?

It actually sounds like you are reflecting off a rear mirror surface.

Yes, it does sound as if the image is being reflected by the mirror by going through the glass to the silvering.
The silvered part has to be the surface reflected off of. not the side of it where there is glass between the silver and what is being reflected.

Ok, I figured what the problem is.

After looking at mirrors in both Walmart and Target, I discovered a serious flaw with these cheaper mirrors. I can't tell whether it is the glass or the reflective layer that is the problem, but one of them (maybe both) are not flat. If you look at an image of a straight line in the mirror and move the mirror around just right (steep angles), you can see very minor ripples in the mirror (the image is slightly distorted AND it isn't caused by the flex of the mirror, that's a separate issue ). So what was happening was the image was getting projected at different angles by these tiny ripples in the mirror causing the ghosting effect that I was seeing.

So the magic fix to this dilemma was to get a new mirror. Wally World and Target were out because those mirrors were of no use to me. And being me, I wanted to keep to the DIY mirror instead of ordering a real front side mirror. Then I remembered Ross... its like a glorified flea market. I picked up a gawdy mirror for $8, enough mirror for two 8x10 inch front side mirrors. I stripped it last night without a hitch and it looks great. The only downside is the reflective material on this mirror is thinner (more transparent) than the older one. But this is minor considering that this mirror is very flat.

After cutting it and mounting it up in my projector it works wonderfully! The projected image is so sharp I am almost giddy with excitement. The apparent transparency difference does not seem to affect the brightness of the projected image.

So yeah, Ross mirrors work well.

Paint stripper, DOT4 BRAKE FUILD -or anykind of brake fluid actually works wonders on car-paint.
-it boils/bubbles up in as fast as 5-10 minutes.

I just picked one of the 12"x48" mirrors from Wal Mart for ~ $6. This thing is big enough for 3 or 4 projectors!
I did a trial run on one of the scraps after cutting it down to size, and it strips pretty easily.

The only minor issue with this mirror is you have to remove the hot glue off the edges on the back.
It comes off pretty easily with a utility knife blade though.

On a related note... does anyone know how to trim a mirror where I only need to take off about 1/8"?
I doubt it would work, but can I use a tile saw?
Do they make any type of glass files or sandpaper?
Or, am I pretty much screwed since I cut it wrong to begin with?

Hi, you can buy a glass grinding wheel at a glass supplier, probably better to go to a lead light supply outlet. They go into a machine for grinding the edges of the irregularly cut shapes for windows. I hope this helps.

Thanks! I'll have to check that out.

im surprised this is not pinned ... it should be

Hi

I just wanted to let you know that I found at my local Canadian Tire a can of paint remover and it works perfectly. I'll post pictures and a video of it tomorrow.

I am curious to see if you have the same "ghosting" issues I had with my cheaper mirrors. Those wall hanging mirrors had quite a few ripples in them, atleast the ones I was looking at. Let us know if you experience random ghosting or blurry spots after you install this mirror.

For those readers who don't know how to do this, here's a guide/thread.

Making Your Own FS Mirror

Disregard, I'm an idiot.

I'm confused. You linked to the same thread you posted the link in? Am I missing the joke or ???

Okay... I feel stupid. I had thought that this was only a one page thread, so far.

I think most mirrors are now made with an aluminizing coating which avoids this? I could be wrong though. The aluminum could still oxidize.

Though I see now this was addressed already earlier in the thread.

Well, I picked up an 18" x 24" beveled mirror at wal-mart for $10 just to try this. I picked that mirror because of its apparent quality and thickness. It is also very flat. The back is not glued to a frame, and is matte brown in color. I tried the aircraft remover (also from wal-mart) after cutting the mirror to the size i want (10x13). I sprayed liberally every 5 minutes, and hosed it down after 15. The brown coating came off in one piece!! Don't worry, there was plenty of glue residue to deal with. So i did the same 3 heavy applications over 15 minutes again, then hosed off. Most of the glue came off. But not all. So, here we go again. Last hose off, still minor gunk left on the very shinny aluminum. Then i rinsed with some distilled water and set it to dry. I came back later and wasn't satisfied, so i used a 100% cotton t-shirt and some windex and cleaned it using medium pressure on the aluminum. Great results! Looks almost as nice as my recently cleaned FS mirror on my 3m overhead. Big thing is, is that the mirror is big! Also, i have let a fair amount of dust / gunk / build up on the FS mirror of my overhead with minimal noticeable effect. Heck, as a prank a friend of mine tried to draw a dick on the mirror with a dry erase marker hoping it would project. It didn't, and i didn't even notice it on the image being projected.

Man you need new friends. after all that time and effort even the chance that the mirror was ruined!

It's probably just me.

I stripped a mirror about a year ago. It was a lot of work and the results where less than spectacular. A few months later it started to yellow. In the end I broke down and bought a used FS mirror.

I wonder how well the diy silver mirrors turn out (glass and a silver solution). I know I'm a glutton for punishment but this is DIY after all.

Anyone made a mirror from scratch?

Well its starting to turn brown and flaking off now... Crap...

Sorry if this has been posted up already but i stumbled across this earlier today and though it may be of use to some:

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1076186/diy_...surface_mirror/

What would give better results, the link that Marticus posted or the method used in this thread? By buying a cheap mirror and some paint stripper. Or would both essentially produce the same results?

After reading the all the posts in this thread, it seems that the people who have created their own DIY front surface mirrors have had great success and no distortion or degradation problems. I thought I would ask again to verify if anyone who has recently made their own front surface mirrors had any problems or not?

Thanks,
Varinder

Has anyone come across those famous "$4 wal-mart mirrors" lately? Or does anyone know a good place to get FS mirrors? Thanks!

Btw, my thought regarding youTube video that Marticus posted - since the material used in the video is acrylic, it might not be best for DIY projectors, since the material is essentially plastic and bends easily, especially under heat.

So anyone had a chance to find those $4 mirrors yet?

I use first surface mirrors to make kaleidoscopes for sale (Spencer Wooden Toys). My stash of mirror just ran out (last purchased in '02) and I was astonished to see that that the cost had doubled since. Thus, I was charged to come across this information on making your own using a cheap mirror. However, my elation died when I learned that Aircraft Stripper contains some nasty stuff. I'm a hardcore environmentalist you see. Thus, I find myself in the classic situation - save $ but do harm to the environment. Dang! Got to be true to my values! So, what I'm hoping is that somebody know of a safer stripper that can do the job. Otherwise I'll have to bite the bullet and get the high priced stuff (hoping they're not polluting somewhere else). Appreciate you all. Toy Guy