The article that got the whole thing going, TomsHardware PCI-Express Scaling Analysis article:

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/03/27/pci...aling_analysis/

As you can see some pretty sweet hardware can use x1 PCI-E, which is better than regular old PCI because it is faster and each x1 link is on it's own "channel" so it doesn't share bandwidth. Also, as you might have noticed, PCI 6200 cards are hard to come by ($90), whereas 6200/7100GS and 7300LE PCI-E cards are proliferating at $30-40.

So my question is this, can you use this adapter:

http://store.orbitmicro.com/commerce/catal...roduct_id=36684

to connect a 7100/7300/6200 to the x1 slots on a
motherboard?

Alternatively I could cut out the back of this connector and let the extra x16 part hang out:

http://store.orbitmicro.com/commerce/catal...product_id=5484

These nuts (my kind of macadamians ) overclocked a 7100GS nearly 100% 351/531mhz Core/RAM to 667/750mhz with a lead pencil to lower 2 resistor values and used a bigger heatsink .

http://www.vr-zone.com/index.php?i=4124&s=11

Could be fun to try, they even got 36 FPS out of Half-Life 2, looking like this:

http://resources.vr-zone.com.sg/yantronic/...c/hlquality.jpg

If you get 2-3 of these cards in one system you can render to a window that spans multiple displays, I managed 3 displays on a 7900GS and the onboard 6150 (PCI-E based on-board still functions when another card is installed), to span 3 monitors at a resolution of 3,072x768. It might be fun to do even more.

What I envision is something like this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16813128321


It has 2 x16 connectors and 3 x1, if you populated it with 5 7100/7300/6200 series cards you could get 10 displays running , on one PC, with PCI-E, none of the cards would be on a PCI bus, although you could put in a couple of those PCI 6200 cards and theoretically have 14 displays on one PC.

I know that 5-7 video cards will likely not work, but how about 2 - 4 video cards in a non-SLI motherboard? That surely would be cool. It appears that all the power contacts are in the x1 length bus connector if you consult this drawing:

http://images.tomshardware.com/2007/03/27/...ie-slot-big.gif

9 ground contacts and 5 12-volt contacts should supply enough power if the motherboard is up to it. I think by the math we might not need any modifications if the 7100 card isn't being over-clocked/over-volted and you connect the fans to a molex instead of PCB power. It is fully possible to put the 12volt power in exclusively through a molex (Hard drive) power cable directly to the adapter board or to a modified card (by cutting the power pins and wiring 12volts directly to the Geforce PCB) As I continue looking into the issue, I see that the motherboard I show is only $80, so with a Glass scraper/razor blade you could cut the back out of the x1 connectors and just let the card extend out the back of the connector, it seems like 1 or 2 x1 cards would fit that way, possibly more on a different motherboard with less in the way. The adaptors could be used on the ones that didn't work. You could test before cutting, but even the cutting will not make the board un-usable (the x1 slots have precious little to fill them, and the ones between an SLI setup are nearly useless anyway to the majority of people .

The really neat thing with this concept is the ability to scale and the low cost of the video adaptors at this time. The PCI-E specification seems to be fine with full power going through a x1 slot, as that is the design spec. The cards also seem to be fine with running at x1 transfer rate because it is dedicated bandwidth(unlike plain PCI).

An 8800 series over an x1 bus got nearly 70fps on Quake4 at 1600x1200 High quality and 4x Anti-Aliasing, and as you may guess a 7100 series card could not use nearly as much bandwidth and you wouldn't be playing it at levels nearly as high (although you could try


The bare minimum required to try this without irreperable modification to current hardware seems to be:

$25 for the x1 extender (and a razor to cut the back out).

A motherboard with an empty x1 slot (IE practically all PC's with PCI-E support).

A second PCI-E graphics adaptor (possibly borrowed from another PC in the house).


Although if you are really hard-core you could cut out the back on your motherboard PCI-E connector, as long as the board clears any components behind the connector. If it works well a "big picture" choice would be to modify the PCI-E card to turn it into an x1, they could be purchased in bulk, for a reduced price as a group buy, and modified with a dremel to clear any motherboard. Since I believe these cards are currently shipping in new PC's and are upgraded almost immediately by many they are cheap enough to cut into for a long-term solution if they function with testing first.


PS, I love hardware ;P (I suppose you guessed)

I have achieved success, I am currently running an MSI K8N Neo4 with the 6600GT installed in one of the PCI-E x1 slots.


Installed 1 on web album


Installed 2 on web album


Picasa Web album

I got restless (I am home with a stomach flu), so I just grabbed the window scraper and cut out the back of the PCI-E x1 that had room for the overhang of a PCI-E x16 link without hitting any motherboard components.

If you see the above screen capture the drivers correctly identify this as a x1 link. I have yet to do any benchmarking, but I will be trying some 3Dmark to check it out. The bandwidth should be fine .

I will be getting the 6200 card and will then be able to check that, of course I can also just put the 7900GS OC into this PC, but that would be silly, (and just like me , it is the Mad science forum after all).

Beautiful, this PC has no problem so far, here are the results of the 3D test (I haven't been able to get it back, my brother is playing MapleStory on it):

3Dmark 2001 revision330 is a complete and utter success:


15,714 3Dmarks, that's crazy for a PCI-E x1 bus


Settings/Results Detailed

I couldn't believe my eyes, it is pushing 300FPS, or close to it, in a few tests, and the frames never went below 80 FPS. Keep in mind this is the 6600GT with 128MB GDDR3 RAM and 8 pipes w/3 vertex shaders. A 7300GT GDDR3 would be an ideal card with similar performance, if not greater performance, probably because it is really a 7600 chip.

I just don't know what to say, it is entirely possible that the PCI-E x1 bus is useful for 3D applications and gaming. I wonder if SLI is compatible with the PCI-E x1 bus speeds? Although it would of course prove futile and counter-productive as it causes a reduction in display attachments, and the reduced bandwidth would really handicap the setup.

The real test is in multi-card, multi-monitor setups without an SLI motherboard.

I hope I can convince at least a few people to try this instead of PCI cards for multiple (4+) displays.

Shouldn't be too hard considering the price difference.

HAH!

Take that Nvidia! I have a geforce 6600GT and a 6200TC installed in the same motherboard!

Have a look at the screenshots:


Picasa Web album

This is not an SLI board, see the other pictures in that album.

I am going for a voltmod on the 6200TC to try and bring up the score.

http://www.vr-zone.com/ has some sick articles by Shamino, the guy who holds a lot of records for overclocking.

Just a peek at the site will reveal a method of changing the core voltage on a Core2, despite any motherboard you have, just by making the lands conductive or putting tape on them so the motherboard will see a different CPU core voltage identifier .

There is a 100% overclock on a 7100 series card, performed with nothing more than a common #2 pencil and a multi-meter. That is crazy insane, they even have it playing Half-life 2 at acceptable frame-rates with quite a few effects enabled .

So, on with the crazies, I am going to try for SLI across two 6200TC KO OC on the x1 slots of a motherboard , who knows if it will work, but what's to lose? (well, about $50 or less of cheapo video cards, but I doubt they will go up in smoke with a 120mm fan on them .

Unfortunately the 6200TC's are really 6200 chips, some of the 6200 series are unlockable into 8 pipelines, doubling their pipes and showing them for the 6600 series they really are, although it is tempting to get another 6600GT with an actual SLI connector to try this, it is even more tempting to try a 7900GS SLI setup, of which I own one right now. Since the 6200TC's are only $25 (well in the impulse-buy category), and they are unlikely to saturate the PCIe x1 interface with data due to being so limited in processing power, I think it is a great start.

T:The most puzzling thing to me reamains the 7950GX2, it is two cards, but instead of leveraging that into 4 displays, they hamstrung it into an "SLI on a card", and as we all know SLI on a budget does nothing but waste your money. (7900 series single card bests 7300/7600 SLI setups with ease, Overclocked 7600GT's can even take on the SLI setup of standard 7300/7600. 8800 single cards handily beat up on 7950 quad SLI systems. So unless you buy two of the baddest cards out there, SLI is a monster show-off, so you might as well have the AMD quad platform with 4 8800 cards in it and do it right ).

It is fun to play with PCIe tech because it is so inexpensive, I have no problem winding up the voltage until the card refuses to play nice, and near doubling of the clock speed sounds like a great idea. Maybe getting a $25 card to bench in the same ballpark as a $60-70 is a great idea, even more so if it is on a x1 bus as it does it . I can't stand how people brag about the most mundane things "I had a credit card and bought an 8800 series card, look at the crap case I put it in with all the lights and windows, and fans pointing aimlessly around". Real performance is awesome, and real skill in modding is awesome. I love seeing a triple-cascaded cooling system on a pair of 7900 series cards running at a Ghz on the core as much as I love seeing a copper cooler on a 7300GT clocking at 700mhz with a pencil voltmod.

The plastic cases make me sick, Alienware I would never buy, and if given to me I would probably sell. Falcon makes a sweet looking system, but I prefer to make my own, with a Lian Li case or Antec, maybe Cooler Master. I can't just drop money on a case, so I have to dream, but I just can't see the point in all the bling on systems that need work on performance.

I also think real race cars are more impressive than riced out crap, bring on the performance, functional beauty is the name of the game. Of course the Germans can give you a sleek ride that performs as well as it looks, and do it day-to-day reliably (I follow the Supercar shootout in Car and Driver, the 900HP twin-turbo daily driver Porsche was driven to the track and the owner hands over his personal car keys to the driver. Meanwhile the Viper and Corvette crews are busy with leaky injectors, blown pistons, missing boost, off timing, and cars that just give up, the Porsche lost because of long gear ratios, but it was daily streetable and fairly competitive, me likey).

Man mad props. You havn't been talking to yourself. It's just when people see the long first post they dont even try to read it.

Thanks for the info, very interesting. Will keep it in mind if I need a 3 monitor setup.