My thoughts are using the 10.6 panel together with the Opaque projector housing and all the associated components that come with it. (with a few modifications of course)
I've purchased the projector from e-bay and have dismantled it to start the mods.
I have a drawing that I placed on google 3d warehouse listed under (model / projector) for the search criteria.
I am having a hard time getting it on this forum.
I would like those who are interested to see it and get some opinions.
Would someone like to help?
Here is a link.
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/sea...arch&styp=m


Thanks,
Pegasus

Actually, when I first heard the notion I figured it a poor-idea. But it's 'growing on me'. [Actually could look sorta-kewl...could even mod-it with tracks, and make it resemble a Battlestar Tank... (as an ex-11E4T, that appeals!)].
Post some dimensions/ID's...we'll 'run it up the flag'...

Affirmative!
Did you look at the design on 3d warehouse?
I have the panel and I will get some measurements tomorrow.
I had also thought about what to build for some time and concluded that instead of building one from scratch I would modify an existing housing to place the panel into.
The lens is big and has focus adjustment, the initial measurements support a 330/550 frensel almost perfectly when you use the FS mirror underneath.
As for the light engine I purchased an 8" dental chair reflector along with and e-ballast and the LL bulb.

As an option to the first light design the model shows that I've been working on a different approach, using polished stainless steel sheets which have an almost mirror finish from Mcmaster Carr.
Curved around the light source and then all the way to the tempered glass so that no light will escape and possibly most all will hit the panel.
It's a good idea, but application is another matter.

Thanks, Pegasus

Well, all of that, in essentially a confined-space, is certainly 'ambitious'...
If asked earlier, I may have suggested a smaller/cooler 150w-ceramic, and an effort away from 'already adjustable' and towards an innovative-re-use of the space/modified-interior. But all experimentation gives some kind of worthwhile-input.
I'll need to see _some_ measurements and a pic-or-two before even forming an opinion...but I think it's an interesting goal/'look' (an 'inside joke' for this-community!).

Absolutely, I can't agree more.
I'll do some measurements and take some pics tomorrow.

P

Hi there Pegasus.
Unfortunateley,the use of a fresnel lens with a specific focal length,means that only light from a specific point,at the specified focal length,is passed through the fresnel lens and passed on to to be useful light to the other optic elements.Bouncing all the light from a lamp through the fresnel may well cause more artifacts/irregularities.
It would be interesting to see what happens,though.
Best of luck.
Cheers P

Yes, I agree.
Upon some rough intial mesurements when I first recieved the projector it appears that the focal point of the lens off the top mirror to the point where the panel will sit is approx. 330. And from the panel off the bottom mirror to where the lamp will be is approx. 550.

P

I like your reflector, it wont work but I like it.

A large reflector like that will need to be at least 600mm from the rear fresnel.

That is a setup I have been looking at for a long time. The main advantage is cooling.

Some day if you don't want the reflector any more give me a PM.

Great design,though,Pegasus.
I like the way you think.
I look foreward to seeing what you come up with.
Cheers P

Just don't 'reinvent the wheel' trying to accommodate light-engine 'improvements' (or notions for improving on point-source reflection-scheme used with our twin-frez implementations for lcd-PJ's) -- just-yet. First -- see if your notion of a re-use of that OHP-case can 'function' by any-means (and some dimensions would be a good-start...to see if any after-panel/550mm path can 'happen' with just one mirror-fold [550mm-or-so being the minimum-length front-frez for use of the Beseler-trip].
Maybe the interior can be hollowed-out or re-structured [dunno, never 'met' one of those in-person...<g>].

That's interesting that you say this. When I first received the opaque pj I turned it on and put a 8x11 sheet in and it and projected the whole sheet onto the wall. When I first saw this I thought that if I place the panel at this spot with the first frenzel to straighten out the light I would not need a second. So I'm impressed that your deduction is right on the money.

Methinks you mistooken me 'deduction'...<g>

I think this is a great design.
Good luck.

Yes, I mistook you.
I have read your entries and find them very informative.
No insult intended.

P

Some Pics:

hee...
Looking at relative sizes, above...this is looking more-and-more like a two-mirror job. Guess I thought this was an older/'quainter' model, anyhoo...?
I would be a little-leery of a two+ mirror build (bear to adjust/align, and attendant light-loss).
You may want to salvage just the head/lens, and mount on a somewhat-different and/or vertical-case?
Looks like a nice lens, though (many are scratched-up from misuse).
Planning on a .2/550mm front-frez?

Yes.
However, until now I was considering using the 550/330 split.
The evidence when first experimenting using the Opaque the way it was designed made me think that if only the light from the panel was be projected, like an overhead pj the 330 would not be needed.
Since everything I've read had two frez. I assumed that the 330 was required.
After our discussion I think I'll try only using the 550 front frez by itself first and see what effect this has.
The initial measurements were almost exactly 330mm from the center of the lens off the mirror down to were the panel will sit. Measuring from the bottom of the panel off the lower mirror (design only at this point) to were the light source will be is approx. 550mm but can be adjusted because the bottom of the Opaque is removed and if the base is extended vertically more distance can be build in.
The bottom of the Opaque will be used but will be lowered for room to add the light tunnel and tempered glass.
I know that light loss is a big issue for us and I can't help to think that if no light escapes than all will go through the panel. I hope to accomplish this by building a light tunnel with mirror polished stainless steel sheets.
Heat will be an issue and using tempered glass to capture the heat within the tunnel I hope to trap this heat and vent it out using air flow into and out of the tunnel. Since I have never built a PJ. I know there will be some hurdles to jump. I will get some accurate measurements tomorrow.

P

Here are some measurements:

Focal measurements:

Mmmm! Looks like I'll have to add some more to the bottom part of the Opaque between the bottom half and the top half. Probably another 127mm to give me 550.

Okay, I see this is not going to be as simple as I thought!
I'm also wondering about the bottom mirror.
My first thought is that the degree of angle should match the top mirror or does this tilt need to be exact?

Why are you using a 500/500 design?
You are going to lose a lot of brightness.
Why not do a 550/220 design?

That way you could do 110mm before the rear mirror (horizontal) and 110mm after (vertical).

Like this:Click to view attachment

I could see heat becoming an issue with the lamp being near the panel but there are probably ways to alleviate this.

I was thinking more like:

Click to view attachment or: Click to view attachment
And 'yes', as I understand it, mirror-tilts DO need to be exact...the more-so for dual-mirrors...
[BTW, Davide-NYC...where did you get that 550mm/.5-pitch frez you had? Or was the .5-pitch of the-pair the 220?]

I haven't seen anywhere in this plog where you've stated the size of your projection room and screen/wall. I put the numbers in the Focal Calc and the 10.6 panel at 9.5" wide yields a 56" wide picture at 10 feet, 69" picture at 12 feet and 82" picture at 14 feet. Will that be wide enough for your application? The standard tiplet with the 1:1 ratio yields a larger picture for this panel.

It's nice to mod an old enclosure, but I wonder if you've checked whether you'll get the size you need. BTW, I have a very similar Vu-Lyte projector, but I'm going to use a 15.4" panel (instead of the 10.6) to get a 100" wide screen at a 14 foot throw.

I like the idea of only one mirror and I think there's more than enough room. But that mirror is an issue.
The mirror tilt was really bothering me and upon more investigation I found adjustments for the mirror thats already installed. I don't know if I will have enough adjustment now but I could easily modify it to move further.
Here are some more pics and measurements.

@ pegasus

Sorry about this brief hijacking.

@ haphazard

I bought my 550 frez from (the now defunct) DIYPJCo - I believe they sourced them from 3DLens.com and I believe it was a 0.2mm groove pitch lens, not a 0.5mm groove pitch.

@ bevo77

I don't think a 15.4 will work with an opaque PJ enclosure. At least not the one I had. Check my PLOG for details.

@ pegasus

Haphazard's idea (if possible to implement) is way better.

David,

I bought mine at 3dlens.
I didn't know what I would need so I bought both the 550 and 330 with .2mm groove pitch.
I agree with you on Hap's idea and will try to get some kind of frame work to fit.

Thanks, P

550 for the 10.6? woaa.

Bevo,

Well, I thought I had it figured for a 96" screen @ approx. 15'. However, I'm new at this and I may have made a mistake.
But that' no excuse. I just wanted something that I could modify and when done had a more of a store bought look. I liked the large lens and adjustment already part of the box. I just thought that it would be faster and easier to modify than start from scratch.
Oh, and to buy the pro lens from LL was $200 and the total for the Opaque with shipping was $97.00.

Thanks, P

I need some help to figure this one out.
The diagram below shows the shape and dimensions of the mirror and relative position to the lens at full retraction.
I don't have any idea where at this point to place the panel and which fres. sizes to use for the entire image to be reflected against the mirror.



Can someone help!

Thanks, Pegasus

Just to recap/clarify:
I'm no 'fan' of mirrors (not-even 'one', due to lumen-loss and adjustment-woes), but the notion here was the innovative re-use the OHP-case -- so if-possible, stay with single-mirror (which somewhat 'forgives' any losses, due to the re-orientation of the panel giving some-benefit thanks to altered/best light-transmission/direction).
Since, perforce, you are using an 18"EFL, you needed (at minimum) a 550mmFL front-frez (a 475-540 might be better, but I've seen none in that-range -- with good optical-qualities).
You want, in order to 'squeeze-all-in', the least-possible lamp-side focal-length. The 330 may be 'long' for this purpose (even with use of pre-con). You may want to re-sell it? Sans pre-con, I'd suggest a Carpow/8. 200mm, or even 180mm, for-rear. With a pre-con, maybe a 220-or-320 [also 8. from China -- I'll be testing similar setups/frez shortly, myself).
Hopefully, your existing-mirror is 'decent-quality/nature', if large-enough...[this theory supported by the vent behind-it?]. And, maybe you can adjust it properly for use in a one-mirror setup [without having to 'stilt-raise' the enclosure/case].
As for aligning, it's helpful -- as Punisher suggests -- to 'draw-out' the rough light-cones involved on large-paper...keeping in mind that the 'point' of the front-cone will be within the Beseler-triplet. Also, consider all-impacts from use of split/unsplit design...including on adjustments/keystoning/mounting and on screen-size (from given-distance of projection).

Having said all-that...which is it -- 203.2mm from mirror to triplet, or "approximately 51mm"?

Having said all-that...which is it -- 203.2mm from mirror to triplet, or "approximately 51mm"?
[/quote]

Yes, I need clarification.
51mm from the back of the lens to the mirror. 203mm from the center of lens travel to the mirror.
That gives me 152mm lens travel both ways.
So the maximum the collector can be from the mirror is 347mm.
I agree that the 550 is my only option for single mirror and one mirror is the best for maximum lumens.
The question is if the collector fres.(550mm) is only 347mm away from the mirror which is 145mm across(at it's narrowest) using the 10.6 panel will the image fit the mirror?
I'm not very good at math and would like some help figuring out before I start building the guts if this will work with 1 mirror.



Thanks, P

Unless my math is way off, I calculate the dimensions of the LCD to be 138mm (5.45") x 230mm (9.09") for the display area. If your mirror is 347mm away from the screen, that will create an image size of 51mm x 85mm, assuming that the image was hitting the mirror straight on. Since it will be hitting at an angle (I'll let you figure that one out) the image will take up more space vertically (since that's the way the mirror will be tilted). Without calculating the angle first, I can't say what the final dimensions necessary for the mirror will be, but if the short side is 145mm across I think you'll be fine.

Take my answer worth a grain of salt though because this is all theoretical for me at this point. I have not started a projector yet.

Lothar,

Thanks for your effort.
I am throwing in the towel with the 1 mirror design.
I'm having to many issues with angles and distance.
My original design is the way I'm going and I've done
another diagram showing the final draft.
The way the Opaque worked was reflecting light onto a picture and reflected light
projected. Since the lens focal point is were the enclosure comes apart that's were I'm going
to place the panel. I have 3"x17" area to work with and I'm using FS mirrors and polished stainless steal
for my reflector. This light box will have polished stainless steal sides and the only gaps will be
for cooling.

Thanks, P

Well after a few hours with the help of another LL member we made this:


Were going to try the dental chair reflector and line the light box with polished aluminum.
Add another fan and dial everything in.
Rezisluh, thanks for your help building the box.

Pegasus

Looks really good.
A very rational design.Perfectly doable.Good job,guys.
P

Pun,

Thanks for the compliment.
We were talking about your new pj build today as we were building mine.
Your design is genius and your fabrication skills are unsurpassed.
I have only one question about the reflector we want to use.
Arizonavideo mentioned that this Dental chair reflector would not work and I forgot to ask why.
I thought it would work fine.
Any thoughts?

Thanks, Pegasus

My two cents......

From what I recall from sitting in the dentists chair, those dental lamp reflectors produce a pretty direct beam of light on the patient. If the lamp arc is at the focal point of the reflector, it should produce a reasonably collimated beam of light so you wouldn't need a collimating fresnel.

Is there something else about them that would make it unworkable?

Tgreenwood

The trauma of having that light burn out your retina is not easy to forget.
I don't know what hurt the most, my eyeballs melting or getting a cavity filled.
So, I thought that it might work not to mention the diameter, almost the size of the lamp itself.
I've also ordered a pre-condensor lens of equal diameter in apprehension of that beam you mentioned.
The only reason that it might not work is it's is slightly transparent.
I assume this is for UV transmission and it has a copper like tint to it.
You might be able to see it in the pictured I posted.
I find this odd because when light let's say from a flashlight is reflected off of it, it looks white.
Anyway were going to try it and see what happens.
I just hope my panel won't feel any pain.

Thanks, Pegasus

Here's a mockup picture I made. I actually have both of these pieces in good shape and I'm not going to chop them up just yet. Anyways... I think something like this would be even easier to do and the brightness and color rendering would probably be better because of the higher wattage / shorter arc in the 575w lamp.

I present to you, the 3M-Beseler Opaquer-Head Projector!

CoooooooL

Looks like it needs some wind tunnel testing for aerodynamics.
I'm not satisfied with that huge box under mine but this is my first build and I want
to get something happening.
I have another Vu-lyte that will have the sleek build.
I just got my pre-condenser and it's a huge 7" diameter lens with 10" focal length.
Man will this thing be bright or what.
Will start putting things together this weekend.

Pegasus

Update on the project:

Added 2 115vac fans from Radio Shack 65cfm with a very quiet brushless motors.
The original 1000watt light bulb from the Opaque projector.
KitchenAid glass bottom spring form pan from Amazom.com


Initial start up gave a very good flow of air! That bulb gets very hot very fast.


This bulb will be replaced by the T15 MH bulb once cooling circuit is proven.


Hopefully this setup will contain much of the heat and channel it away from the panel.
We drilled 1/2" holes all the way around the edge spaced about 2" apart.
Since it's supposed to be used in an oven it should hold up nicely.

What's happening with your project here ?
Looks awsome !

Well, I deviated from my original design to the point that it was becoming to big.
The original idea was to use a second mirror and keep it low profile.
The other problem was that I could not get the panel to work.
Were sending the panel back to Johnzo for trouble shooting to see what’s up.

My buddy who was helping me talked me into a design change.
We've been able to get a working unit that really rocks. Extremely clear and bright with
a low profile and compact efficiency. All we need is the panel.

I’ll post some pics of the new design….

Pegasus

New Design:

Some More views: