i'm finishing my basement for a theater area, i have the onkyo 7.1 system. i'm lookin for info on the bes way to set it up. i'm going to run all the wires pre-drywall, and i'm about to that, right after plumbing.
i just want to see what some of you have setup. i don't have a whole lot of room, about 12'-13' from couch to screen. but the couch will be right against the back wall. i will add pics later tonights. for now any suggestions?
i'm lookin for the best possible sound imaging, even though i know the best would be to have the seating in the middle of the room.
Full Version: 7.1 Optimal Speaker Placement
QUOTE (MAJORAHOLE @ Feb 6 2007, 12:56 PM) 
i'm finishing my basement for a theater area, i have the onkyo 7.1 system. i'm lookin for info on the bes way to set it up. i'm going to run all the wires pre-drywall, and i'm about to that, right after plumbing.
i just want to see what some of you have setup. i don't have a whole lot of room, about 12'-13' from couch to screen. but the couch will be right against the back wall. i will add pics later tonights. for now any suggestions?
i'm lookin for the best possible sound imaging, even though i know the best would be to have the seating in the middle of the room.
i just want to see what some of you have setup. i don't have a whole lot of room, about 12'-13' from couch to screen. but the couch will be right against the back wall. i will add pics later tonights. for now any suggestions?
i'm lookin for the best possible sound imaging, even though i know the best would be to have the seating in the middle of the room.
Can you post a quick diagram? Include doors windows and especially stairs, since they can be really disruptive.
SJ
QUOTE (samuraijack @ Feb 6 2007, 06:25 PM)
Can you post a quick diagram? Include doors windows and especially stairs, since they can be really disruptive.
SJ
SJ
i'll try. give me a bit. i'm at werk.
QUOTE (MAJORAHOLE @ Feb 6 2007, 01:35 PM)
i'll try. give me a bit. i'm at werk.
Whispers/ "I wont tell anyone youre at work, if you wont tell anyone I'm at work!"
QUOTE (samuraijack @ Feb 6 2007, 01:46 PM)
Whispers/ "I wont tell anyone youre at work, if you wont tell anyone I'm at work!"
Pssst . . . let's just keep this between us three. 
RED=side surrounds
YELLOW=back surrounds
BLUE=front
thats what i had in mind, the backs mounted to the ceiling facing down. the other surrounds mounted on wall as close as i can get to the ceiling facing the down and toward the seats.
When The seating area is right against the wall.. I've also heard of the rears being tilted towards the wall so some of the sound is bounced behind the user's head (especially if you have a deep couch where the listener is forward a bit)
there is also an open area inbetween the stair way and the room, sort of a window.
if you are facing it like so
it would look like this
if you are facing it like so
it would look like this
QUOTE (Censored @ Feb 6 2007, 02:55 PM)
there is also an open area inbetween the stair way and the room, sort of a window.
if you are facing it like so
it would look like this
if you are facing it like so
it would look like this
okay, here is the big question: Is there any wall underneath the support beam? If there isnt then your reflectivity will be uneven and the sound will become canted to one side...Also, any carpet?
yes to the carpet, and no to the wall under the support beam. i know it can't be a "true" theater room.
can't i adjust the reciever to compensate for that?
can't i adjust the reciever to compensate for that?
I also have an onkyo system and i love it.
If you go to Dolby.com they have some setup diagrams.
Dolby.com
If you go to Dolby.com they have some setup diagrams.
Dolby.com
honestly I would ditch the rear speakers unless you have room to actually place them behind you. Mounting them literally above you would not be good IMO.. The only way would be maybe if you faced them to a wall so sound could bounce off and give the illusion that it was coming from behind you.
QUOTE (tameone @ Feb 6 2007, 09:45 PM)
honestly I would ditch the rear speakers unless you have room to actually place them behind you. Mounting them literally above you would not be good IMO.. The only way would be maybe if you faced them to a wall so sound could bounce off and give the illusion that it was coming from behind you.
I'll second that.
Your Onkyo will have no problem running 5.1, and it's still surround.
QUOTE (tenzip @ Feb 7 2007, 05:13 AM)
I'll second that.
Your Onkyo will have no problem running 5.1, and it's still surround.
Your Onkyo will have no problem running 5.1, and it's still surround.
yes i know that. but then whats the point of having 7.1??
plus i can't say "ya, its 7.1 surround sound"
i was also thinking about maybe putting that wall section back in. and then put speakers in the wall. i havn't drywalled yet, but i did just cut it out about a week ago.
QUOTE (Censored @ Feb 7 2007, 09:20 AM)
yes i know that. but then whats the point of having 7.1??
plus i can't say "ya, its 7.1 surround sound"
i was also thinking about maybe putting that wall section back in. and then put speakers in the wall. i havn't drywalled yet, but i did just cut it out about a week ago.
plus i can't say "ya, its 7.1 surround sound"
i was also thinking about maybe putting that wall section back in. and then put speakers in the wall. i havn't drywalled yet, but i did just cut it out about a week ago.
Whats the point of having 7.1 if the sound isn't going to be coming from where its supposed to? 7.1 is encoded so that the sound is coming from behind you.. and if it doesn't, it defeats the purpose. If you're doing it just to impress your friends, then by all means go ahead. I have a 7.1 receiver but I'm only using a 5.1 speaker setup because I don't have enough room behind my seats. 5.1 is fine and there is barely any 7.1 encoded content anyway.
QUOTE (tameone @ Feb 7 2007, 03:42 PM)
there is barely any 7.1 encoded content anyway.
i don't think there is any 7.1 encoded, at least not that anyone here can get(SDDS?) So its just a matrixed 6.1 or 5.1. and yes i am finishing my basement, adding a theater area and a bathromm, countless hours of work just to impress my friends.
the whole reason i got that system is for my HT down the line. i'll prolly just put the wall back in and do it that way.
QUOTE (Censored @ Feb 7 2007, 10:54 AM)
i don't think there is any 7.1 encoded, at least not that anyone here can get(SDDS?) So its just a matrixed 6.1 or 5.1. and yes i am finishing my basement, adding a theater area and a bathromm, countless hours of work just to impress my friends.
the whole reason i got that system is for my HT down the line. i'll prolly just put the wall back in and do it that way.
the whole reason i got that system is for my HT down the line. i'll prolly just put the wall back in and do it that way.
plus I can say "ya its 7.1 surround sound". what are we supposed to infer from that statement.
I will stick to my claim.. if you cannot place the rear speakers in the appropriate position, don't use them.
thats true there isn't alot of 7.1 sound out there. But HDDVD might have some also the Onkyo receiver tries to use the other speakers but i agree 7.1 is over kill but my system was same price as a 5.1 so you can use the other two speakers in a different room if you want.
Until you get the space behind your seating position to place the rears where they should be, putting them in a different position will only hurt the audio imaging. Just run 5.1 until you get your space done. The diagrams that Burkeerr2 posted are great, that's the way it should be set up.
Okay,
Right now you are facing two very distinct problems.
1. The lack of one wall to even the reflections out.
2. The lack of space to have you rears
A lot of pretty sound advice ( sound? get it?) has been given here and I would think you could do any and all of it. IF you insist on running with the 7.1 setup then you are going to have to "bury" your speakers. This is basically getting a smallish set of speakers and placing them behind your couch, which will have to come out the width of the speakers. They should wash up the wall. This might be the best you can do, unless you opt for a 45 degree angled shelf to bounce the sound off. Even then, its going to be a very touchy tuning to get the volumes just right. Since the rears are usually for ambient and the start of certain effects or end, then the tonal quality can suffer a little bit. To some this will be alright. To others it will sound too muffled. Its a personal choice.
The lack of the wall will be a problem but it can be solved with a little tuning as well. Your side speakers will need to have a mobile stand for the side that has no wall. You might also want to use a heavy base in case guests are over. To tune this, you may need to adjust the distance from that speaker to the center of the room. You wont have to vary it much, but it should be just enough to compensate for the lack of reflection. Another thing you can do is to put a large rug, wall hanging or sound absorbant material on the wall facing the free roaming speaker. This will balance out the sound by absorbing a certain amount of it and simulate a space like the one on the opposite side of the room. It may sound a tiny bit hollow, you cant get it perfect. But you can at least balance out the reflective surfaces so that your stereo sounds its best. Leave yourself wire to go back to 5.1 if you feel like it and try variations on your setup. You will most likely return to 5.1, but its worth a try.
Another thing you can try is Echo shots. If you are really interested I can tell you how to do them, but I have never been very satisfied with the method.
SJ
Right now you are facing two very distinct problems.
1. The lack of one wall to even the reflections out.
2. The lack of space to have you rears
A lot of pretty sound advice ( sound? get it?
) has been given here and I would think you could do any and all of it. IF you insist on running with the 7.1 setup then you are going to have to "bury" your speakers. This is basically getting a smallish set of speakers and placing them behind your couch, which will have to come out the width of the speakers. They should wash up the wall. This might be the best you can do, unless you opt for a 45 degree angled shelf to bounce the sound off. Even then, its going to be a very touchy tuning to get the volumes just right. Since the rears are usually for ambient and the start of certain effects or end, then the tonal quality can suffer a little bit. To some this will be alright. To others it will sound too muffled. Its a personal choice.The lack of the wall will be a problem but it can be solved with a little tuning as well. Your side speakers will need to have a mobile stand for the side that has no wall. You might also want to use a heavy base in case guests are over. To tune this, you may need to adjust the distance from that speaker to the center of the room. You wont have to vary it much, but it should be just enough to compensate for the lack of reflection. Another thing you can do is to put a large rug, wall hanging or sound absorbant material on the wall facing the free roaming speaker. This will balance out the sound by absorbing a certain amount of it and simulate a space like the one on the opposite side of the room. It may sound a tiny bit hollow, you cant get it perfect. But you can at least balance out the reflective surfaces so that your stereo sounds its best. Leave yourself wire to go back to 5.1 if you feel like it and try variations on your setup. You will most likely return to 5.1, but its worth a try.
Another thing you can try is Echo shots. If you are really interested I can tell you how to do them, but I have never been very satisfied with the method.
SJ
Censored,
What is the distance between the couch and the screen. For 7.1 you would be much better off if you could pull the couch out at least 3-4 feet from the back wall. I would do this even if you needed to have a slightly smaller picture. THe sound quality is poor listening near any wall surface.
You want the listening position to be out in the room away from wall reflections as much as possible. The exact location for best listening is room dependent and you have to compromise between that and screen viewing distance.
If you must keep the couch against the back wall I would reiterate the recommendation to possibly stay with 5.1 The reciever does 5.1 great and can do 7.1 in the future if needed.
IF you decide to go with 7.1 at the current couch position, I would put the rear surrounds on the ceiling pointed down at the couch and the front surrounds on the sides of the couch.
THe rear surrounds are just synthisized ambience for most DVD's so thier position is not as critical as the front surrounds.
What is the distance between the couch and the screen. For 7.1 you would be much better off if you could pull the couch out at least 3-4 feet from the back wall. I would do this even if you needed to have a slightly smaller picture. THe sound quality is poor listening near any wall surface.
You want the listening position to be out in the room away from wall reflections as much as possible. The exact location for best listening is room dependent and you have to compromise between that and screen viewing distance.
If you must keep the couch against the back wall I would reiterate the recommendation to possibly stay with 5.1 The reciever does 5.1 great and can do 7.1 in the future if needed.
IF you decide to go with 7.1 at the current couch position, I would put the rear surrounds on the ceiling pointed down at the couch and the front surrounds on the sides of the couch.
THe rear surrounds are just synthisized ambience for most DVD's so thier position is not as critical as the front surrounds.
QUOTE (Hezz @ Feb 7 2007, 06:47 PM)
Censored,
What is the distance between the couch and the screen. For 7.1 you would be much better off if you could pull the couch out at least 3-4 feet from the back wall. I would do this even if you needed to have a slightly smaller picture. THe sound quality is poor listening near any wall surface.
You want the listening position to be out in the room away from wall reflections as much as possible. The exact location for best listening is room dependent and you have to compromise between that and screen viewing distance.
If you must keep the couch against the back wall I would reiterate the recommendation to possibly stay with 5.1 The reciever does 5.1 great and can do 7.1 in the future if needed.
IF you decide to go with 7.1 at the current couch position, I would put the rear surrounds on the ceiling pointed down at the couch and the front surrounds on the sides of the couch.
THe rear surrounds are just synthisized ambience for most DVD's so thier position is not as critical as the front surrounds.
What is the distance between the couch and the screen. For 7.1 you would be much better off if you could pull the couch out at least 3-4 feet from the back wall. I would do this even if you needed to have a slightly smaller picture. THe sound quality is poor listening near any wall surface.
You want the listening position to be out in the room away from wall reflections as much as possible. The exact location for best listening is room dependent and you have to compromise between that and screen viewing distance.
If you must keep the couch against the back wall I would reiterate the recommendation to possibly stay with 5.1 The reciever does 5.1 great and can do 7.1 in the future if needed.
IF you decide to go with 7.1 at the current couch position, I would put the rear surrounds on the ceiling pointed down at the couch and the front surrounds on the sides of the couch.
THe rear surrounds are just synthisized ambience for most DVD's so thier position is not as critical as the front surrounds.
that was my original plan. i guess my setup doesn't have to have perfect imaging, but i just wanted it to be at least ass good as i have now and still be able to have my 80" widescreen with out any screendoor effect.
my couch will be about 12.5 feet away from the screen/wall. right now given the specs on the IN72 i am looking at, i'm pushin it. the way i have it setup right now sounds damn good to me. my couch is about 10" off the wall (different room) and the rears are mounted to the wall about 12"above my head, all the others are on stands(besides the center). i love the sound, its just to much for the 27" tv i'm veiwing movies on now. thus, the theater area. i guess i could sacrifice a little viewing size in order to make it easier. (the 80" is wide not diagnal)
i will try to add pics tonight, of both rooms. so ya'll get the jist.
QUOTE (Censored @ Feb 7 2007, 03:10 PM)
<snip>
the way i have it setup right now sounds damn good to me.
<snip>
the way i have it setup right now sounds damn good to me.
<snip>
That's the only opinion that really counts.
I'm not saying you won't get lots of other opinions, but your ears have to decide what's best after all the experimenting is done.
Censored,
You will have to move things around a little to find out what works the best for you. I think if the screen door is not bad you will be OK at 10 feet away from the screen with a 80 inch screen.
My setup has the couch about 10 feet away from 90 inch screen and it works just fine. But then again I don't notice any significant screen door with my setup. You have to get within about 2 feet to see screen door with movies.
Just having a couple of feet behind your ears will improve the spaciousness of the system a little bit. But you should experiment. Multi-channel sysems are more forgiving than 2 channel for placement so you should just set it up the best you can with the space you have and go with it.
You will have to move things around a little to find out what works the best for you. I think if the screen door is not bad you will be OK at 10 feet away from the screen with a 80 inch screen.
My setup has the couch about 10 feet away from 90 inch screen and it works just fine. But then again I don't notice any significant screen door with my setup. You have to get within about 2 feet to see screen door with movies.
Just having a couple of feet behind your ears will improve the spaciousness of the system a little bit. But you should experiment. Multi-channel sysems are more forgiving than 2 channel for placement so you should just set it up the best you can with the space you have and go with it.
this is the basement in progress
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Looks to me like your new basement HT space is going to give you a lot more room and distance from the couch to the screen. I think that once you have the furniture moved down in that space you will find that it will work out really well.
You will probably have room to move the couch out a couple of feet out from the wall and mount the speakers similar to the way you have them upstairs. I think it will work out quite well for you.
You will probably have room to move the couch out a couple of feet out from the wall and mount the speakers similar to the way you have them upstairs. I think it will work out quite well for you.
Hard to tell at this stage, but I'm sure it will be nice when finished.
I notice you have quite a few AC outlets. The person who finished my basement before I moved in didn't believe in having electrical outlets in convenient places. I have a room downstairs with 2 duplex outlets, total. The room is approximately 30x15. I'd like to track him down and beat the crap out of him.
I notice you have quite a few AC outlets. The person who finished my basement before I moved in didn't believe in having electrical outlets in convenient places. I have a room downstairs with 2 duplex outlets, total. The room is approximately 30x15. I'd like to track him down and beat the crap out of him.
QUOTE (tenzip @ Feb 8 2007, 05:07 AM)
Hard to tell at this stage, but I'm sure it will be nice when finished.
I notice you have quite a few AC outlets. The person who finished my basement before I moved in didn't believe in having electrical outlets in convenient places. I have a room downstairs with 2 duplex outlets, total. The room is approximately 30x15. I'd like to track him down and beat the crap out of him.
I notice you have quite a few AC outlets. The person who finished my basement before I moved in didn't believe in having electrical outlets in convenient places. I have a room downstairs with 2 duplex outlets, total. The room is approximately 30x15. I'd like to track him down and beat the crap out of him.
ya i figured i'd rather have 2 many than not enough. i just got done with all the wireing last week.
i think i might move the double outlet into the corner. i was gonna build a cabinet/entertainment center type thing and put the screen in there, but now i'm just gonna build or buy a rack/shelf deal. just gotta find one now.
guided from this article:
http://forum.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/discus.pl#MB
I was wondering if your couch is against the wall in a 7.1 setup, what should you do with your rear speakers???
It was suggested to me to plainly mount the rears against the wall elevated at 6 ft... either angled downward or straight ahead,, and to not worry since my reciever does automatic calibration...
someone else suggested forgetting about the rears alltogether and using those speakers as precense or as extras for another room...
can anyone comment, suggest or agree to any of these options?
Thanks
http://forum.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/discus.pl#MB
I was wondering if your couch is against the wall in a 7.1 setup, what should you do with your rear speakers???
It was suggested to me to plainly mount the rears against the wall elevated at 6 ft... either angled downward or straight ahead,, and to not worry since my reciever does automatic calibration...
someone else suggested forgetting about the rears alltogether and using those speakers as precense or as extras for another room...
can anyone comment, suggest or agree to any of these options?
Thanks
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