This is the plog for my Senior Project LL PJ. The exact specifications will change over time but please reference the table of contents below to follow my progress.

Table of Contents
1. Intro (Post 2)
2. Finished PJ (when it is)(Post 3 & 4)
3. Packaging Review and initial fire-up of 10.6" wxga (Post 8)
4. Review and Tests on 10.6" wxga screen (Coming Soon)

Hey All,

Well I hit a big milestone today and I actually got my LL PJ senior project approved by my advisor and CPE commitee.

What does this mean? It means I can now start working on PJ #2. This will be a pretty big undertaking and will duplicate a lot of what has been done here and hopefully will give the community something new.

Here are the goals:
1. 17" Phillips HDTV (the one in my current PJ) 10.6" wxga lcd
2. Fancy new light engine (Add Precon, better reflection, possibly new small arc lamp, etc.)
3. Shiny new chassis (not anything Punisher quality, but hopefully a lot more pretty and efficient than what I have currently.
4. Custom designed microcontroller and PCB for controlling everything:
a. Temperature Monitoring
b. Fan Control
c. Power Control
d. Sleep Timers, On/Off Timers, Hot Restrike Restricter, etc.
e. Motor controlled focus, keystone, bulb position, other stuff.
5. Remote control for microcontroller that will hopefully also send IR signals to the Tv's control board so I only need one remote for the PJ.
6. On-screen menu for PJ control and setup (hopefully overlayed over incoming video signal)

Possible Extensions:
1. Auto Focus (camera, ultrasonic, etc.)
2. New Light Engine (tunnel, etc.)
3. Different video source (smaller LCD, DLP, etc.)
4. If different video source, smaller more efficient box design

So there it is. Work on new chassis will hopefully begin in the next two months. Microcontroller design will start in Jan and continue until my graduation in June. Depending on how fast those go I will look into experiementing with DLP or other video sources.

Keep in mind that this will cost me much more than a top of the line HD PJ would. Thats not the point. The point is to satisfy my senior project requirements doing something I like and will actually use. There may be the possiblility that I could even put together a kit and others could benefit from my investment.

I hope you enjoy following this PLOG and I hope to update it much more than my first PLOG. I'm sure I will be consulting all the experts out there throughout my design so I thank you in advance. Especially you EE nuts.... I hate analog circuit design so that will be my biggest hurdle.

Welcome back!
Sounds like an awesome project,looking foreward to seeing how it goes.
Good luck.
Cheers P

Well... some changes are already in the mix. I've gotten in on the first group buy for Yosh and Johnzo's 10.6" wxga screens. This should allow for a much more "commercial" enclosure and hopefully a more efficient light engine. Check back for pics and a review of the screen once I get it sometime this month.

Also, one sad note. I have finally joined the hordes of broken xbox 360 owners. I am getting a hardware error which I confirmed by checking the code via the sync+eject method. It is apprently a GPU problem so I will be dealing with MS this weekend and hopefully get it resolved as soon as possible. Worst timing ever as I hoped to use the winter break for some major gaming fests (was finally going to beat Oblivion).

Update: 12/30

Xbox 360: I had forgotten that I bought my 360 from Costco. Bam.. problem solved. I brought it back and got a new one no problem. The only snafu is they didnt have project gothem (it was packaged with the console) so they let me pick out any other game instead (rainbow 6 vegas was my choice). I also got the HDDVD drive for X-mas along with "Dazed and Confused" (my fav fun movie) and "Troy". I am only able to test it out on my parent's 46" for now but I can't wait to get back home and test HDDVD on my old 17" HD PJ.

10.6" WXGA: I finally got this screen in and from what I can see without stripping it, it rocks. I will post some pics within the hour.

Questions: I am used to using a field fresnel that has longer focal length than the projection lens but would this work?

Click to view attachment

Also, Can someone help me out with the ??'s on the condenser stuff. I don't know how the smaller screen will effect those sizes and focals...

10.6" WXGA Packaging Review and initial fire-up
(disclaimer: my dads dig cam is terrible, i will get better pics of the screen,board,etc. when i get home)

1. The Box
A few dings from shipping but overall not torn up or anything. I was a little worried at first but the packaging job inside was top-notch.




2. Top Padding



3. The board, remote, backlight inverter, and buttons/IR



4. Protective layer on top of screen package



Cont. Next Post

5. The LCD outer protective layer



6. LCD inner protective layer




7. LCD Static Bag



8. Whats left over below all that



CONT. Next Post

9. Everything from the box




10. Generic AC/DC adapter from Frys, plenty of Amperage and regulated




11. All hooked up




(about screen shots, wait for better ones before judging. These still have the protective clear sheet on top of the LCD and the camera sucks, and my laptop cant do 1280x768 for some reason so its all stretched wierd.)

Anyhow in review...

I want to thank yosh and johnzo for their research and efforts in finding these panels and I was to especially thank johnzo for the speedy and reliable shipping (especially around the holidays).

I don't think this panel can be beat for the price and I can't wait to start my build with it.

Stay Tuned

(and please answer my questions )

I think a good lamp and a nice small box and that 10.6 is going to be hard to beat.

Have fun.

Awesome stuff. Please let us know how it fares with the 360! I know Johnzo is waiting on a component to vga cable but if you happen to have one, please test that out too.

Patiently awaiting pics while I patiently await my own 10.6" panel (It should be here on Tuesday).

360 testing will commence on the 1st. Im driving home that night and then heading out to tahoe for a week. But on that night I will fire it up with the xbox. I have both the vga adapter for the xbox as well as regular compnent and a component to vga adapter. I will also test HD sattelit via component to vga.

One of the guys posted a link to Anchor Optics and they have a 6.5" fl x 11.25" fresnel that should work fine for the lamps side of the PJ. Cheep too.

www.anchoroptics.com/catalog/product.cfm?id=24

You still can run a condenser lens with the shortest FL around 150mm or 6"

The settings in the condenser spread sheet were 450mm x 127mm triplet . rear fresnel 165mm, front fresnel 550mm,24mm arc,110mm diameter condenser. The condenser will sit at about 128mm from the fresnel and the arc can be 30mm to 14mm from the condenser.


I still like the idea of using some kind of condenser and light box for all the PJ just to get the hot air out of the PJ but that is just me. For the smaller lamps you may not need to do that.

Johnzo tested the component to vga adapter cable and said that only 480p worked but that the screen is a green tint and doesn't sync properly. I guess this tells us that the controller does not support Sync On Green and uses the traditional RGBHV signal over it's VGA port. Have your tests proved any different?

Sry.. got in late on the 1st and now im at Tahoe. Great day of skiing today but... rain for the last 4 hours. With any luck it will turn to snow and at least the higher parts of the mountain will be skiable by friday.

Anyhow.. on topic...I will be back in action on the 7th and plan to spend a good part of that day testing the inputs I have and starting to firm up initial PJ plans so I can start part aquisition.

Hope u all enjoyed your new years.

Brian

Thanks for the suggestions and the inital number crunch. I will start playing around with the idea of some of these components and bust out the spreadsheet myself. Will the drastic fresnel difference lead to a massive arc at the triplet?

I have a question about field fresnels...

How do you know what is the best FL? for instance in the Pro setup the lens has fl 500 and you use a field fl of 650. Why so much longer than the triplet fl? My setup will use an 18" opaque that has a fl of aprox. 450 so what would be the ideal field fresnel FL? I would think u want the light condensing down to a point right at the triplet (like the blue 450 or red 500) but based on the pro setup I may want a 550 or even higher. I just don't get why.

Click to view attachment

Because of the length of the triplet.

And the Pro fresnel is really only about 610mm.

For the 18" the Pro fresnel works good or you can use the 550mm from 3dlens.com

k thanks

I look forward to seeing your results - how well do you like the panel? Was there any alternative controller board you could buy for the 10.6 that would allow component cable input?

From my limited experience with the panel (about an hour) I think it will be great. The controller question is more complicated than you know

We (us 10.6 early adopters) are looking at a variety of controllers right now each with their own strengths and weaknesses. Actually, right now my controller is either in the mail or has arrived at johnzo's house (the gracious organizer of the 10.6 group buys). I am swapping it out for one of the more recent controllers.

Another thing to note: I have a component -> vga transcoder coming in the mail right now that I ordered about 2 months ago and finally came back in stock.

Once I get my controller back, I will be posting a lot mroe stuff hopefully

Thanks for your thoughts - looking forward to seeing more!!! As for myself, I was surprised to find out how much I spent in cabling for decent VGA conversion, switching output on multiple devices, etc. Everything has been bowing in deference to VGA, which to me seems the wrong way to go about it, but it was the only choice when many of us began our projects.

In retrospect, using component cabling would have been far easier. In MythTV builder-land, they always talk about the wife acceptance factor. Mine would have been far more easily achieved using a regular DVD player connected to the projector and that be it, or use a game system that can play movies like an Xbox 360.

OK I am done ranting now. Thanks for listening!

OK... so I've been considering different lighting options lately and have decided that I will expand my choices. What sort of options do I have for shorter arc, but shorter life lamps? I definitely don't want to spend over $150, but if one of these types of bulbs are worth trying, then I will. As you know, I am building this as a senior project and it will but much more impressive if I can get decent ambient performance.

Heat is a definite concern as I will probably going with a 180-165 collector fres. So like 575W is probably out the window. But, what is there in the 250-375 range that would be more efficient than the 400W standard MH that I already have?

thanks for you wisdom.

Were in the same boat Brian,
I have been chatting some with ArizonaV. His feeling is that a 250w HQI with a precondensor will be just as bright or better then a 400wHQI in our PJ's.
So for me at this point, im torn between taking the 150w plunge, or going with a 250w set-up that will allow for an upgrade to the 250w ceramic bulb when it becomes availible.

To be completly honest, part of me is just waiting with baited-breath to see how Oz,Dazz, Ele, and Puny do with the 150w engines Its a tough call right now...
but i think AV's suggestion of the 250w with ceramic upgrade capabilities is a darn good-one. I need to double check for specific models ect.

Let me know what you find. One thing I need to look into is to better understand bulb naming conventions. HQI, HMI, etc. are all jumbled in my mind and I need to understand each better.

this is cool, just can't wait for your result!

The guy said the protypes are shipping over seas now. I don't expect them to come to the US any time soon, we just don't use the HTI lamps like they do.

http://www.osram.com/pdf/service_corner/10...B_PI_HCI-TM.pdf

look for the 250 watt 4200K lamp.

The list there # too if you want to call again.

That was my initial-notion (wish I'd stayed-with, in fact...).

Alright... Spring Break is over and I need to get back to work on this thing.

I suppose a little update is needed. I ordered a 250 W HQI to experiment with overclocking. I got my new pro reflector in. Hopefully progress will pick up.

Heres a technical question: One goal of this project is to have an on screen display (menu) allow you to change settings and whatnot. Since I run all of my video thorugh VGA (well.. by the time is reaches the PJ anyhow) I figure the best way would be to interrupt the VGA signal and overlay my menu on top. How difficult is the VGA signal to decompose and mess with? Will I drastically add any delay? Is there a commercial board available that does this? etc. The more I can do myself the better and if I can get this feature built into the main control board, even better. Just looking for some insight so I have a little direction to get started with.

I really think the 250w is the better choice for these 10.6" panels..everyone is running out and getting the 150w but unless they are really skilled at building their light engines (which SOME here are) I don't think it will be the best solution.

The 150 will have the best color. The 250 will be brighter. The weak part of the HQI 250 is the blue is slightly purpple The red is better than most.

In a 100% dark room the 150 might be better for some people if the screen is smaller than 100"

In a mixed light room with a 120" screen go for the brighter lamp.

Brian,

Did you order the HQI-DE250/DX?

If so, when you get it, could you please give us your best guess at what the arc lenghth is? Thanks!

This probably isn't accurate because I'm 6 natty ices deep, but I'd say 27mm electrode to electrode.

When you say rear fresnel 165mm you mean the 220mm FL fresnel will be placed at 165mm from the arc?
I have no idea how your getting those figures can you just tell me what FL condenser to use with this setup please?
24mm arc, 220 fl Fresnel, 330 Fresnel, stardard triplet, 8 inch lcd.

Thanks

That 165mm frez from anchor-optics is from an OH-PJ, and is composed of two-frez, glued-up, and facing each-other (don't bother). As for using such a short-frez (IF you found a decent-one) with a pre-con...my results showed that, with this-screen-size, even the 200mm from Carpow was too-short. A 220mm is 'ok', but my 320mm worked-better (ideal may be around 280-300mm, if anyone has-one). Results may vary, depending on pre-con FL and diameter...but my tests were with two-'fat-boys' and a 4.5x6.5...
A short-frez and 10.6" without pre-con may work (but with a 150w and 200&220, I was 'unimpressed') -- maybe it would better-suit a 250w or greater?

So just to clarify, What was the prob with 220 and condenser? Poor light coverage? Bad vignetting?

The 320 and pre-cons was MUCH brighter, and more 'even' (again, this was with a 10.6 and a 150w -- results may be different for other combos). The 200 & 220mm, with pre-cons, were near-impossible to get both bright and even...you had to 'choose' in adjustment.
In all-testing, I'd conclude that a pre-con setup is a 'must-have' for these panels and a low-wattage bulb. I had no 310mm to test-with, and my results were with only a .2mm pitch front-frez (so that may have something to do with observed-brightness).
Had I decided to stay with these combos, I'd have kept the 4.5x6.5 pre-con and sought a 260-300mm frez...

I know you read his plog you posted on it many times. A 220mm rear fresnel and the 4.5x6.5 condenser is fine for a 10.6 LCD.

From Pun15hr plog.

http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s...st&p=222926

FWIW, I'm using a 200mm rear fresnel with a 150w lamp and the 4.5 x 6.5 precon and I'm getting very satisfying results. My panel is only 9" though.

So your saying the best setup is 320 mm FL condensor Fresnel and a 6.5 inch fl glass precon that is 4.5 inch diameter?
I also understand using a 220mm FL condensor fresnel does not have a light gain over the 330mm Fl Condenser fresnel as long as you use a precon that narrows the beam more? Have i got this right?
Please confirm what "fat boys" are.

Sensibul, I also plan a equal project with a 8.4 lcd. Which bulb are you using? Your precon is from surplusshed? Is it pyrex heat resistant or not necessary in your opinion?
Can you tell me your distances, arc to precon, precon to fresnel condenser. Are you split or unsplit?

I'm saying I don't-know the 'best' setup/combo...but that I got good/better-result from a 220mm compared-200, and better-yet with a 320mm (and fat-boy is just a elkenism for a smallish-diameter but 'tall' pre-con -- like the unidentified-one that came with Carpow's 'lightbox').
I think we can all agree that, with these smaller-panels and a 150w lamp, that a pre-con improves brightness/PQ/uniformity. As for an 'ideal' rear-frez (depending upon pre-con and related-adjustments), I'm pretty-sure it's 'longer' than 220mm, and closer to 320mm -- at least in a split-setup (I did less testing in unsplit).
It should be easy-enough for those with 200/220mm currently to 'check'/compare...?

See my "Puzzle" link for for detailed info, but to the point, I'm using a 150w GE ceramic and the standard surplusshed precon (not pyrex, it's crown, and with my hot mirror hardly gets warm. Several have used it w/o heat shielding of any kind with the 150w, so probably not necessary. If it cracks, you're only out $6). Currently using a split setup.

Distances are roughly 35mm arc to precon, 145mm precon to (200mm) fresnel. Can't get any more accurate than that without taking out some components, but I have plenty of adjustability built in and basically slid the light engine (with holds the precon as well) back and forth until I had bright, even lighting.

Keep in mind I only watch in almost complete darkness though. You mileage may vary...

Well, I fired up my HQI 250 W with my 400W eBallast and it worked! Brightness was good, especially for first startup and the color even seemed good already. There was no arc jittering either. Overall, I am excited to start testing this bulb. There is only one problem, I need to build a metal lightbox. This is what happened in mere minutes of the bulb running, burnt wood. I guess the bulb is much closer to the wood than in my other lightbox. Anyhow, hopefully I can get to the shop this weekend.

Also, When I plugged the bulb into the FC2 I noticed that it doesnt really have a tight fit. Is this normal? I mean it did snap to a point where it couldn't fall out, but it can still rattle around a bit.


Click to view attachment

Whao, and it didn't blow up the first strike? Interesting, wonder if this can be done the same to a 150w bulb given the proper 250w ballast.

Would be great if you could give us some details from your experimenting with some lux readings cpsubrian.

Clogging up the plog so that i can subscribe

I will be getting lux readings.. but prob not till later. I have access to a lux meter at school , so I will try it out once I have a better test fixture.

The Fc2 socket is made to have a little play. The lamp expands more than you think. There must be end play. My socket had shoulder bolts so the base could float.

The lamp wills run a lot cooler on the bench than in a PJ with a reflector on it. You will need fan cooling.

The light box could still be wood with metal flashing added inside. It might be easer to make it that way. I would fold the flashing to make it two layers thick and this will block way more heat and still be easy to fab.

Don't worry the lamps always start things on fire. You get used to it after some time.

LOL, just trying to keep the landlord happy.

Lightbox plans... Sheet metal.....solid works... tired...going to bed


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