Well the Mst might not have the best scaling chip in it. I know the 10.6" Mst controller doesn't have a Genesis or Faroudja scaling chip . And that might be worth an extra $150-$200 for some.

sorry if this is a stupid question, but what is a scaling chip?
I'll take a shot at it and assume that it's what will up-convert 480i, 480p, 720p, etc to 1080p. I just want to make sure that I have that right.

It's the chip that converts any input into the proper resolution for the Lcd. The better ones do a much better job at this without artifacts and jaggies.

Yea, upconverting, gotcha. So that controller board doesn't have a good scaler, but that doesn't make any difference for me since all my video inputs (HD cable/satelite and home theater PC) are going to be going through an A/V Receiver with a great scaler.

EDIT: I know this has nothing to do with this forum but I respect the things that I learn from you all and feel like I should share this.

R.I.P Chris Benoit.

Comparing the MST (10.6" kit) with the Winmate G2A (Gensis chip) (15.4" wuxga kit), the scaling qualities are equally as good. IMHO.

As far as how they scale, this is what i'm talking about:

HDMI/DVI connection to the G2A controller using a Helios HD4000 upconverting DVD player set for 1080i output:

Click to view attachment

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HDMI connection to the MST 10.6" kit using the Helios HD4000 set for 1080i output.

Click to view attachment

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I would pay a premium for a controller which would display as the G2A controller does vs. the MST. I believe this would be possible if the MST was mearly programmed correctly in the bios. The controller itself does a great job and looks great. I'm hoping the MST for this 15.4" panel does display as the G2A does in the above pics, it would be a total winner, that is why I ask question about it's "scaling" capabilities.

gs

GadgetSmith, your saying that the MST overscans the image to fit the screen? Instead of streching it? this might be good.

No, not really. It's actually doing both overscan (overscaling maybe this should be called ?) and stretching vertically. Maybe you can see that the circle on the MST is really an oval (height is larger than the width)... not too bad, but it's there. Physical measurements put the "stretch" at about 6%, while I would have expected something closer to 7% based on the 720 to 768 pixel calculation, but that is likely within error of reading my metric ruler.

Ideally i'd rather see a 16:9 image w/ the black bars. Second choice I guess would be preserving the aspect ratio and perhaps loosing some of the image off each side. (basically overscaling and trimming the sides)

In the case of these 1920x1200 16:10 screens, there would need to be an 11% stretch of an HD signal if it was scaled to fill the entire screen, that will be more noticable vs. the 10.6" screens.

I'll stop now... this stuff has all been covered before. I really am just interested in hearing more about the capabilites of the controller that you are saying you can get. Do you have this information, or is it just "try it and see" type of thing ?

Thanks
gs

I have some of the new controllers coming in, I dont know anything until I test them, hopefully there will be some good results.

Well it appears from other pictures that I have seen that the realtek controller does 1:1 pixel mapping like the g2a. We can only hope that the MST will do a 1:1 map also, if it doesn't it is not worth the money for the disorted geometry.

I agree; 1:1 is not necessarily needed, but at least preservation of the aspect ratio. Also, I have never really been a big fan of too much overscanning, but I guess 5% isnt too bad. Johnzo, which controller have you been supplying with the 15.4" panels before the MST?

PS. Post 500!

johnzo1995 could you please drop me some info about this MST thingy?
Thanks..

I got the full panel file generating version of the KCWB app for my Kontron board! I will start programming in earnest this week!

WOOHOOO!!!

Though I'm a bit confused for my own project. Since I am only putting in 1080p or 1920x1200 signals into my projector, wouldn't the cheaper controller board with the not so great scaling be better for me?

I suppose it depends on how the cheap one handles the 1080p (scaling, stretching, 1:1), and by the cheap one are you referring to the Realtek controller that johnzo has been selling, or the new MST we are talking about?

Well, I'd prefer the new MST one since it has HDMI and I definately need something that can do HDCP, but I can do that with the HDFury. I don't need any sort of scaling, just 1:1 so when I put a 1080p video on it will be displayed 16x9and only use the 1080 vertical pixals and not stretch it. And when I play a game on my computer it will show full 1920x1200 and be displayed 16x10. As I said, all signals going into the controller board will be either 1080p or 1920x1200; maybe 1600x1200 for other games.

okay. but in spite of HDCP support i have seen lotsa LCD(TV)s with poor scaling a color handling. All of them have produced ugly banding effectes...

yea, I've gotten a few messages from people saying that it's not just the scaling, but other factors in it for over all picture quality. Well, I guess I wait to hear more results from the new MST ones as well as cross my fingers that HitesFiero has good luck with the programming and can save us all, lol.

I'm just standing by waiting to see who sues MStar next. First it was Genesis, and I believe they resolved that with a licensing agreement eventually. Then it was MStar suing Realtek for patent infringement. Then it was Realtek suing MStar for the same, and requesting a seizure of assets of like 1.5Billion USD.

No wonder we can't get any decent controllers at reasonable prices in the US, these companies keep suing each other, and having the US Trade Commission block import of each others products, or devices using those products from entering the US.

I actually obtained one of the MStar Tsunami chipped controllers in an Acer monitor during that embargo although I have no idea how it got into the country at that time. The Tsunami chip was the one Genesis was suing MStar about. (Sometimes seen on controller boards as a TSUM56AWK chip instead of the usual MStar logo or MST part number)

Some of these boards, and similarly equipped ones are now starting to become available cheaper by buying an LCD display that already has one in it due to the prices of the monitors themselves dropping nicely over the last 18 months.

Unfortunately for the DIY projector and car mod crowd, smaller screens make little sense for the mass market, and so controllers programmed with the firmware to support those smaller panels are just getting harder to find and are going for a premium it seems. Well, except for a certain lower-end one via Japan.

If you can solve the 24" inch LCD Projector problem and live with a bigger projector ,you have plenty of great choices out there.

Personally, I think 20 inch LCD with 1680x1050 is a great choice.

Beginning to wonder about that myself. I first thought about using a 24" by BenQ. Great specs, HDMI and HDCP. Just figured it would be a HUGE projector.
For anyone else that is interested in it I did find a place for the fresnel lenses.

http://www.alltronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=32

I also have a link somewhere for extending the ribbon cables. Not sure what it is but if you want me to look for it just ask.

With a lens that big (20.5" X 36") you could use the Dell or Apple 30 inch 2560 x 1600 panels.
Lets see any new consumer HD projectors touch that resolution.

If you cut that large lens down to size you could have a straight throw projector thats only about 6-8 inches wider than the standard ~ 18x18x40 inch (non-cut pro lens with extra room) straight throw projector and maybe 5-10 inches longer.
The 30 inch 16x10 ratio screen from Dell is 15.78 x 25.25 inches and their 24 inch is 15.3 x 22 inches.
Screens from other manufacturers should have similar dimensions.
Personally I don't see any reason right now to use panels above 15.4 or 17 inches unless your going to use something higher than WUXGA resolution.
Even Dell's 24 inch HDCP screen which has as many inputs as the kontron board still costs more than the kontron board and a 15.4 inch screen, not to mention the projector for the smaller screen would cost less.

True, but we've been waiting for the Kontron board for 8 months and people are getting impatient, like me
And the price difference isn't that much when you're talking about just the screen. The BenQ 24" has better specs than the Dell and handle's scaling better (my friend has the Dell 2407, I have 2 of the Dell 2405 which has no HDMI/HDCP). The BenQ goes for $725 CAN. In comaparison, the 15.5" panel on eBay is about $200US - $250US, then the Kontron board looks like it will be about $400US+. Now to me, that sounds like the same price. Yea, bigger build, but you get a 6ms refresh rate. The best flatpanel 15.4" is 16ms. Most are 25ms +

I paid $260 for the Kontron board with the OSD board. At that price you still have to fab an LVDS and serial cable, but it's not very hard, just time consuming. I had a chance to really dig into the Kontron CFGworkbench app today and it's pretty strait forward as far as setting panel timing and what not. I'd be happy to share my panel file as soon as I've tested it fully.

A $260 board plus cables plus about $150 for a cheap used screen is a lot cheaper than say Dell's 24 inch monitor, and the more expensive lenses.
http://www.google.com/products?q=15.4+WUXG...rch&show=li

I of course want the sharp screen which will cost extra, but still, its cheaper in the end probably.
Also, these Sharp 15.4 and 15 inch screens with their "slow" response time look just fine to me.
I have an older (~5 years) 15 inch UXGA sharp and its never blurred in any games not even Unreal Tournament.

Go with the 24 inch if you want, but if I were you and I had a projector that big I would go ahead and stick either Dell or Apple's 30 inch in there with multiple light bulbs and run it from a quad SLI system, then your in business.
And if any of your friends buy one of those new consumer 1080p projectors you will still have full bragging rights.

the bigger the panel, the bigger the light cone from the arc, which means the 15.4 will be brighter when using the "standard" 400 watt MHL bulb.

Does anyone know anything about the new MST controller that CARPOW has ? Does he has a kit that include a screen as well ?

The prices for the lenses, controller board, cables, LCD, etc. isn't that far off for pricing compaired to the BenQ 24" screen. I was just posting the info for others that might be interested in it. Honestly, at first, that was my plan all along since I have two of the Dell 2505fpw and I got them for free. That's why I started to research the other info like the lenses and such. You would definately need a much brighter light source for that, admittedly.
As for me, I'm still on the fence if I'm going to use one of my displays or wait for the people with the MST and Kontron boards to see what we can get.

I recently bought the new HP 20 inch with glossy screen. HP W2007 . Beautiful. 240 USD.

I wish I could use this for a projector. 1650x1080 . I don't care about the extra 300 lines for HD sources. missing 150 lines on each side isn't so bad.

I have a few of them coming in for testing.

jhonzo, this MST is a new controller, if i understand well.
Please let us know if this new products you have is able to change brightness and contranst in the panel, and should be nice know also the OSD setting availables.

HitesFiero, thanks for the great job you're doing!!!
You're working on a CRTtoLCD7mm is'nt it?
would the panel file you're building, work also on a a crt to lcd 7 lite version??
Would you be able to post also a schematic for the cable you built?
thanks bye!

Hey, carpow just sent me an email stating that he has the 15.4 MST board, with HDMI.... anyone else hear about this yet?

Model

MST9E 89BL

hi guys!!!!
i'm so proud to contibute to this fantastic thread!!!!

Here it is SHARP WUXGA filesheet!!!!!!!!!!

youyuyuyoyouyyuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

http://digilander.libero.it/marcogt/LQ154MILW02.pdf

please keep me informed with the on going updates about the firmware programming!!!

bye!

I have them coming in, should here any day now.

That's awesome. I bet those will be really nice controllers.

Very nice work Marogt!

wow
someone give me the programmer tool for it
and
ya
i think it's time for me to order a panel and the controller
yey

someone wanna trade working firmware for a panel and controller? hahaha iwish

I've been on vacation this week, so I've been busy working on other projects around the house. I have my Kontron panel file writen! I will flash the board and begin testing next week. When I am satisfied with the results, I will make all my files and data public.

you are the man!

I'm just curious, does anyone know if the MST9E 89BL board for the WUXGA has the same scaling issues as the one for the 10.6" does? Where it scales everything to the full screen and does not preserve aspect ratio. Sorry, you must be really busy right now Johnzo

Well kancerus, its been 2 weeks so I feel its not too bad to ask if you have heard any updated news on the board programming for the backlight?

If the backlight is really the only thing thats not final yet you really should go ahead and start getting the orders together, I need my projector ready so I can show some movies in HD this summer and for my dorm room when I start college in August. (have enough space on the wall for 100+ inch projection )
I also can't wait to run Crysis on this thing, especially after seeing the new HD trailer on IGN...

I must have missed that about programming for backlight functionality.
All that any controller board does in reference to the backlight is to send an enable or disable to the inverter to turn it on and off, and send a PWM signal to control any brightness changes done via the backlight
That should have taken them all of.... zero minutes, since it is done on all controllers by default.

The new controllers have arrived, I will be testing tonight!!

*Homer drool* Sweet, can't wait to see the results Thank you so much for all the work you're doing with getting these rare controllers!

Here is picture of controller.

Click to view attachment

I will take some pictures in action.

sweet, which one is this again?

This is the KM9E89BTVL made by Top-Tech

480i/p 720p and 1080i all work over Component and HDMI

The controller does have some zoom features but zooms the image in wierds way. But in full mode it fills up the whole screen up with sight vertical streching.

HDMI looks great like on the 10.6 w/MST, I will take some better picture when some good hidef programming comes on. I have real ghetto setup, cant test 1080p, I know it will work just fine.

If you need some testing done just Pm me and I'll get a controller from you and do the tests

coolies, can't wait to hear about the 15.4" setup to find out more about the stretchng issue. How much is this controller?

Here is a few more pictures

Controller has PIP

Click to view attachment

These Toshiba panels have really goods colors

Click to view attachment

what size panel is that? is that a 16x9 or 16x10 panel?

btw, hi everyone, I can see the big guys are here, lol.