Yeah I have a screen as well sitting here that I bought and cant even test hehe.

I am going to get this running and then put some prisms in front to get Horizontal Extension and get the full cinema feeling! Cant wait!

Ive just randomly browsed this thread, if a group buy ends up happening for this controller, I definitely reckon Ill be in, seen as Im just across the ditch from you kancerus Then Id just have to find a panel for it. Aussie would be a much better place to live. Dont get crap over here, just about everything has to come externally.

I didn't get my panel from Aussie - got it from ebay. Trying to find somebody who shipped here was impossible.

Also the pre-condensers I cant find here and the fresnals and triplets! had to order them all in!

I am from NZ - Hamilton in fact!

Hi everybody, good news!

I just got this email from my Kontron contact:

"
Hi Adam

The engineer has received info necessary to configure your LCD, he has the card so there is no need for you to buy it yet. Now if you would like to forward the unit to us to address below, we’ll get this underway, at last!!!!!

"


So I am sending my panel to them first thing tomorrow and we will see how it goes!

Do you have a Sharpy, a Shiba or a Sammy? or perhaps Life's Good (LG) for you?
I have a Sharpy, if it works for one it should work for all, I am just curious.

.:Offtopic:.

Cool! I pretty much know that place, I stayed there for about a year, I actually like it there better than Auckland, this place is just so spread out. Im originally from Gisborne, which is tiny compared to Aux. Aussie's got the cash, jobs, women, need I say more!

Anyway, back on topic, everything is slowly happening for this controller! I dont know if Im reading everything right, but, would you have to send your panel all the way to Germany? Surely theres someone on LL thats alot closer willing to send theirs ??

I have the Toshiba - LTD154EZ0D
But yeah - they should all be the same as they all work in the same laptops.

NoXiouS - yeah, most people outside of Aucks don't like Aucklanders hehe. Hamilton is not too big and not too small.

I only have to send my panel to Sydney - I am not sure if they are sending it on to Germany or just testing it in Sydney with what the tech has done. So yeah, just a courier cost to Sydney for me!

waow, thease are nice controller with DVi connectors so we can do 1080p ... but is it REAL 1080p ?
and 1 stupid question, can I buy a 15.4" screen which is not 1080p, strip it a install a 1080p controller, can I expect tu have a real 1080p ?
So my question is: Is the 1080P signal only from the controller ? or the controller has to be 1080p and the screen needs to support it ?
My though is that a screen only shows what the controller shoots to it!
Im not sure if there is a material/physic different between a 15.4" LCD which support 1080P and one that only does 1080i ...

*real* 1080p is a phyical LCD panel with 1920x1080 pixels. The wuxga LCD's that people buy are 1920x1200 in resolution, so when a 1080p signal is displayed the extra 120 vertical pixels are not used. An LCD display is natively a 'p' (progressive) device. It does not *natively* display 'i' (interlaced) signals, this is the job of the controller. The controller must take various signals (depending on the capabilities of the controller chip) then display them as designed into the firmware for a particular board and panel combonation. So basically the controller must take any input (PC, HDTV (1080i/p, 720p), 480p, 480i, etc..) and ouput the correct information to the panel.

there are other 15.4" panels out there, mostly 1280x800 LCD panels used in laptops, but these likely will not work properly with panels that are natively 1920x1200.

hope I answered some/most/any? of your questions...

cheers,
gs

ok, that is nice !
So I can purchase a LCD screen that only support 1080i, 720p and ect.
if it does support 1080i, it is because they support 1920x1080 but Interlaced. Progressive is better so if I completly strip the LCD screen, remove the native controller and replace it with a controller which support 1080p, I will finally have it on a non-supposed-to-be-1080P lcd panel ?

thank you so much!

hooo I m sorry ... I think I finally undestood !
TV LCD are interleased ... but the lcd we use (laptops are PC LCDs) are always progressive!
So if my screen does support 1920x1080, it will be progressive!

That make sens!
Thank you very much!

not quite. a typical CRT Televison displayed signals in an interlaced way.

LCD's whether used in TV's, laptops, etc. are all progressive devices. Any interlaced video source 480i and 1080i need to be converted to progressive before being displayed on an LCD. period.

In order to have a 1080p PJ, you would need (at least) an LCD with a native resolution of 1920x1080 (or highter) and the controller will need to supprt any input that you will want to use with the devices that you have, but specifically it must be able to handle (deinterlace) 1080i video.

To clarify. The LCD panel itself can only display at it's native resolution and will do so in a progressive format. The controller for the LCD panel is the "brain" converting any input to that of the native resolution of the panel for it to be properly displayed, hence the LCD panel and controller must be matched correctly. You cannot simply "plug and play" LCD panels with different controllers... it doesn't work that way.

gs

Then I m not sure I understood!
Why can we buy 1080i lcd TVs if it would be easier to the manufacturer to leave it in 1080P?
The "i" and the "p" does have the same resolution, but are not displayed the same way!
If you tell me that they are all progressive, why have they built 1080i before 1080P ?
I understand the fact that CRTs are interleased, LCD are progressive and the "i" signal needs to be converted to progressive before the image is displayed, that is why "i" is not the best quality, has to be converted!
But have they built "i" before "p" only to make more $$$ when they came in with it?
Because the screen you buy that support 1080i will never do 1080p, which is weird if any LCD are native progressive !

Sorry if those questions are dump, but I have read a lot on Interlease and Progressive but knowing that LCD are always progressive, those questions come to my head ....

Oops. Ahem, ummm, yeah - The LVDS cable is what I meant... I think I have a mechanical layout that will get me around the issue, but it sure would be nice to have an option to put the controller further away.

The reason why is that the HDTV specification had only 720p and 1080i as standards, these were agreed upon ages ago, and were developed for CRT type displays. This was prior to the big LCD TV "Boom" that occured only within the last 5+ years... now with new LCD technology, 1080p would certainly be the preferred way, but only new Blue-Ray, HD-DVD, computer games will likely implement 1080p content. Don't expect to see 1080p for HDTV, only 1080i...

Although when you purchase a 1080i LCD TV, yes it take a 1080i input (from an HDTV device) and deinerlaces the signal for displaying at 1080p.

There are "HDTV" ready displays, like 15" LCD TV's that can also accept 1080i signals, but they are converted to the displays native resolution, which in the case of a 15" LCD, would be 1024x768. See, so although you can input a 1080i signal it can only be displayed at the maximum the native resolution of the actual LCD panel allows. Don't be too fooled though, a 1080i signals downscaled to play on a 1024x768 panel will look great ! That is because the source (1080i) is a good one.

gs

My god, that is complicated !!
I have read that 1080P can only work if you use DVI, HDMI connector because the signal HAS to be digital. If you use component or something else, it is analog. LCDs are digital so a conversion from analog to Digital has to be done!
Even worst, PCs are digital, switch to analog (VGA connectors) then go back to digital for LCDs.
Based on that, if I want the real 1080p signal, I will need a PS3 or blue-ray/HD-dvd player, connected to me LCD controller with DVi cable.
My screen needs to support 1920x1080 or higher and then I have a real 1080p.
If I plug a PS2, or a computer which does not have a HDCP ready graphic card (older than Geforce 7600gt), I will only have 1920x1080. the signal from PS2 will be interlaced so the controller will change de signal to progressive which will result in a video quality loss ?

Am I right now ?

720p, 1080i & 1080p can only be transmitted on HDMI/DVI, VGA(RGBHV) and Component cables (YPbPr & YCbCr) as they are requried to carry the bandwidth of the signals. HDMI/DVI are mostly digital connections (although DVI does have pins for carrying analog as well, not sure about HDMI, but I believe they also have analog pins, but at any rate they are hardly used for our discussions). VGA is analog. Component YPbPr is analog while YCbCr is digital (Most component connections you'll see will be analog YPbPr).

Yes. LCD's are digital, PC's are digital. If you're using a VGA cable, then multiple digital/analog conversions are taking place. The best is to have a PS3/blue-ray/hd-dvd player connected to an LCD monitor/projector, etc. using a DVI or HDMI connection that way the signal stays digital all the way. HA ! .. this is where HDCP comes in. If a device is HDCP enabled, it will not transmit the full HD signal (720p, 1080i or 1080p) on DVI/HDMI unless that device is also HDCP enabled. (This is the problem with HDCP.. someone buys a new HD Digital "something", but alas if it's HDCP enabled and your TV, etc. is a few years old and not HDCP enabled, you won't get the benefits of a nice HD all digital connection... it will be downscaled, or simply not work)

A PS2 I belive only outputs 480i. (not exactly sure as I don't own one) At best I believe it might output 480p. At any rate 480p would require a component connection, so you could never feed it into a PC (without high cost) The more popular composite and s-video connections would be the 480i signal which could be fed into a PC, which would need to deinterlace them. Video cards are coming along way now and are much better at deinterlacing video, but there are software applications out there like Dscaler that will do a good job if your video card doesn't. If your feeding a PS2 480i signal to be displayed on a 1080p LCD, unless you have a good scaler in between, the signal is gonna really be kind of crappy. Why ? ... because the 480i signal from a PS2 is crap... and as the old addage goes... crap in; crap out.

this is really getting OT, so we can find a more appropriate place for this discussion if you want to discuss further.

cheers,
gs

Lol, I was getting into this whole convo! Learnt a bit. Thanks GS.

@Kancerus: Sweet, Brisbane to Sydney is way better than Brisbane to the other side of the world. And Hamilton, yeah exactly, not too big not too small. Forgive me for not looking properly, but what would the prices be on these boards? Ive seen panels on trademe here, but theyre like $400. Phat debt!

Kancerus how much will it cost? so not AUD2000, as it was told perviously?

count me on if it *really does* HDCP. could be tested with an upscaling DVD player with HDMI out.

Hey Guys,

The panel should only cost $300 AUD if we get enough buyers - but we also have to but the cable with it so it may be a bit more. If we say $350 AUD we should be fine I would say.

The programming fee (he approximated a few days which = $2000 AUD) might not come into play because it may be easier than he thought. I will have to wait until I send this panel to them (should get it sent in the next few hours)

I have an AV Unit with HDCP that I can test it on once I get it - but from what I have been told it WILL include HDCP.

kancerus.. great job. but please remember to have the OSD button panel involved to the package. so lets say that approx AUD400 for the whole stuff, consiting c2l7-mm, lvds cable, osd button panel, plus fw customization fees...

Yeah, forgot about the OSD - isn't it pretty cheap? I was just going to make my own as I have the spec sheet for it - that way I can make it look nice and fitting with my projector. I will make sure they include it though.

I just sent the panel! should hopefully be there tomorrow

I still think that is cheap, that is like $330 USD!
think about not having to buy an HDCP stripper for $120+
and the added bonus of geting a true digital single link connection from your HD-DVD, BluRay, Satilite, Cable, PS3. If you use a stripper the ones that are available are all DVI > VGA then the controller makes it Digital again.

And the kontron has some really good features - scaling etc etc.

As I live in Australia - shipping each controller to the US will probably cost a bit - so what I will probably do is find somebody in the US who I can ship all the US controllers to and then they can ship them out internally to each person who bought one.

He, thanks a bunch !
There is a lot of stuff to learn about HDCP!
I think I starting a treath about that can be useful for a lot of people !
And yes there is dvi analog and digital ... DVI-I can do both, DVI-D is only digital, and DVI-A is only analogue ! All About DVI

So much to learn
Thanks again GS

cc, it usually happens that new stripper products are getting announced, but most of them found finally fraud. there are some devices made by a german firm, and that company have shut down. sadly there are rumors that those device's decrypt keys will be banned, soon...

Maybe slightly OT: But if you need a 1080p source (Games/HD-DVD/Upscaled DVD's) for your projector, the Xbox 360 after the Spring update works at 1920x1080 again and the color is improved over VGA.

did you get your 360 updated already ?

gs

Yes, updated this morning and tested on my WUXGA projector. I have the controller from the Minoten group buys.

Yes ! I downloaded the update today as well and VGA 1080p now working with the controller. (I too have a minoten controller, 3rd buy)
cheers.
gs

Awesome news guys !!!!

And it only took them 7 months

Woot..... also the colors/blak levels are fixed with the new Xbox 360 update. No more washed out black levels and colors and blurriness with Vga !!!!!!!!!!!!!

really ? i'm almost thinking component 1080i looks better than VGA 1080p !?

I might try unplugging my power for a little while as I know there is something funky going on with the bright/dark colors. I had to go and fiddle around to get a bright picture with component, but now I think I want the controller in the "other" mode with the VGA cable, but not sure if just unplugging will work. I will have to play around a bit more...

Well you have to adjust your settings after changing to Vga now. Try "expanded" mode for the blacks and then adjust the brightness/contrast/colors and then try "standard" and adjust and see what you like better.

Anyone with a G2a 130, do you see a "recall page" on the OSD menu anywhere.?

Also, DO NOT hit the up and down arrows at the same time. This does an "auto color balance" or auto white balance. And will totally screw your image up. I accidentaly did this. Also now my image is "pulsing" bright to dark, then fading out into a white screen with a black and red pixelated boxes emerging from the center of the screen). (the above statement is with xbox 360 through component at 1080i. I do not know how this will work with DVI or VGA signals).

Id also like to try this dashboard update, too bad my G2a is screwy.

Im working with dobie right now to get it fixed

Hey Everybody - Just an update on the Kontron.

I shipped the panel the other day and it still hasn't reached them yet - I think the courier company quoted about 2 days so hopefully it shouldn't be much longer.

Man this has been going on forever, I was working the Kontron thing for a while and I finally gave up on them/ got busy with other things.
I am glad to see that others picked up where I left off and that we might get an HDCP ready board soon. I have gotten obsessed with the Anamorphic stuff, looks like I have found a good cheap source for that stuff. If anyone is interested in what to do to make your projector better after 1080p take a look at the DIY anamorphic lens thread!!!

Yeah well hopefully next week we will know for sure whats happening!

About the anamorphic - Mark is coming around this afternoon to test his prisms on my projectors (I have a standard lens one and a pro lens one)

That is great news on both fronts. I am getting ready for a 1080p build, so I need a controller. I haven't decided if it will be pro, beseler or standard yet, our respective anamorphic experiments will determine that! I might be getting my trophy prisms tomorrow! yay! Pls test Marks lens with the Pro, I need to know the outcome of that specifically.

Shit OT, I will stop soon, seriously though I think the anamorphic lenses and HD capability are quite related. Why have high res if you don't use all the availible resolution??? that's where anamorphic comes in!! ok I am done with OT

Yeah I will test them with both lenses! I want HD and anamorphic too - building a new house and have a room made just for it!

Once I know about the Kontron controller - I will probably start a thread about it to explain it to people and get the group buy going.

Cool I am going to start a group buy or single order package for the trophy prisms if they prove to be compatible with the DIY lenses we use.
If you are interested I could ship you a lot of prisms perhaps in trade for a controller, or at least I could get you a pair for your own use!

Sounds great! I will wait and see what marks ones can do - he has some larger ones that hes looking at as well. How big are the ones you are getting?

I am geting 7.5" x 6"

the ones that Mark uses are 170mm x 140mm or 6.7" x 5.5"

I think the extra half inches of area on the prisms I am sourcing will help a lot considering that the aussiemorphic lens can work with TR's down to 1.3 and the lens sizes of his commercial projectors actually match ours (100mm on his BenQ and 60mm on his Sony)

We are getting OT again. The stuff that kancerus and I are talking about should be getting posted over in this other thread http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18311


Back on topic I am super excited about the TrueHD prospect, the players are getting cheap now so the HDCP is becomming more must have than ever, it is a reality that we have to live with, the transition phase sucks, the obsoletion of non compiant devices sucks but HDCP is here to stay. Those guys at Kontron better do us right, it is curently our only hope of not using a HDCP stripper.

Check my post about marks lenses in the anamorphic topic - good news!

Now back on topic! The panel was delivered today! So I should find out whats happening next week.

Adam

EDIT: They have sent the panel to the tech in Germany - dunno how long that will take but hopefully not too long!

I have a quick question about HDCP, im very interested in projecting at 1080p and as a result am pretty interested in this kontron card. Currently the only 2 sources i have that can output at this resolution (other than my PC) is my PS3 and Xbox360. Xbox aside, i know the PS3 supports HDCP in conjunction with the bluray although currently it is disabled on all current titles leaving us free to output 1080p blu ray (and games) through component if we wish. Now when they finally make the big switch and enable HDCP on future bluray titles i will only be able to view that 1080p signal from my PS3 through the HDMI port correct? So as a result if i were to buy this kontron card i would have to get an HDMI to DVI adapter in order to plug this device in but doesnt HDCP work in a manner that disallowes such conversions and would infact detect this and reduce the image quality to if i was running it just through component (as i seem to remember reading before)? So the question is, in my particular case, is HDCP in this card a moot point for me since it doesnt have an HDMI hookup (considering the PS3 is the only device that utilizes HDCP that im gonna want to hook up)?

No Dvi/Hdmi are the exact same thing, Hdmi just carries sound also. The Ps3 couldn't "detect" the Dvi/Hdmi adapter and stop 1080p.

Any updates thus far Kancerus? Just trying to stay in the loop.

Still waiting on my contact to contact me - they had to send the panel to Germany so I assume it would of taken a little while - Ill post here as soon as I know anything

kancerus, this is weird. anyhow if i will have a JAE connectors from MOUSER i'll possibly give a try to MSC. The 12 weeks for ground post ends up on 28 th of may. i have bad feelings about my package.

if they send your panel to germany - and finally back you will have horrible costs. these panel-travelling thingy is at least $70 i'm afraid.

I only had to pay for it to be sent to Sydney - then they sent it to Germany themselves - probably amongst other stuff that they send to and from Germany (Thats where the head office is)

Ill email him today and see if there is an update.

edit: The update is: that there is no update.. hehe He said he hasnt heard from the tech yet - but as soon as he does he will let me know.

Also - Do we know anywhere that supplies the 15.4" panels for a decent price? I could include the panel with my controller for the group buy if we know of somewhere.