ScreenTek offers re-polarization services for $100.00 - seems like a good deal to get the high contrast and transmission we need with no risk in messing up the Panel and having the pro's take care of it...

Here's the link:
Re-Polarization

The info is at the bottom of the page.

Interesting happenings with the G2A130 controller... (for those of you still around with the Minoten group buy controllers, and those ordering from Dobie in CA)

I have on a few occations tried using 720p and 1080i inputs to my winmate G2A130 controller with the results being a darker than normal image. However about 3-4 weeks ago my attempts at making it work succeeded, with a nice bright image using a component/vga cable and both 720p and 1080i signals from my xbox360. I've been very happy. However, yesterday I had to disconnect both my power and video cables as I was finishing some new lighting for my theater. Once the job was done, I hooked my power and cable back up and fired her up... dark image. Damn. I felt it was a case of things being plugged in or powered on a certain way that was causing the controller to "hiccup" or something... after trying many, many, many things, today I gave it one more try, and it worked... the image is back to it's same "bright" self. I've spoken with Johnjandran about this and know he's had this problem at times, but perhaps there are others. My procedure was simple...

With everything connected as it should be using the component to vga connector to the controller and with the power on and displaying the "dark" image I simply unplugged the power to the controller by removing the plug from the wall. After waiting about 15 seconds I plugged the power back in, the controller defaults to 'on' when plugging back in, but it did not recognize an input. I then simply turned off the power using the power button on the OSD control board. After waiting a couple of seconds I turned the power back on using the OSD control board... a few seconds later and voila my nice bright image was back ! Hurray ! Why and How ? ... I have no idea, all I know it that it worked this once, but perhaps someone else with this problem can try this out and see if it helps and let me know if this is just a fluke or if it's repeatable.

cheers,
gs

Exact same thing happened to me before.



Also note: remember my crappy reds and blacks (all colors actually, those are just the 2 most noticeable) on the xbox 360?

Here is a link to my previous post http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s...st&p=205150

Try this fix even if you think your colors are OK, you may be suprised.


Note; When I say G2A, I have the G2A 130

To fix that, plug in main power for the G2A, plug a PC into the VGA port (turn PC on so you get an image)then turn on G2A via OSD panel***. Turn off G2A via OSD panel and leave main power plugged in. Then turn off PC; unplug PC from VGA port. With the XBOX630 off, plug into VGA port with a component to VGA adapter (not transcoder). Turn on XBOX360; turn on G2A via OSD board. Colors were fixed for the most part, blacks and whites are slightly crushed however. Now, if you unplug the main power for the G2A, it will loose this setting and your XBOX360 colors will look washed out and crappy again (at least in my case)

***(also note here you get an extra option called internal brightness that you dont get when the 360 is in the VGA port, but the setting transfers to any VGA signal, make sense?, play around with it for tuning if you like).

This works with the 360 VGA cable as well, however my picture is shifted to the left with the VGA cable at 1280x720. 1920x1080 would not work at all with the VGA cable, it would just default back to 640x480.

I can not say if it will work with a transcoder like the VDIGI; I could assume this method would work though.

Hope gadgets and I info helps you all out!

New device which will allow Hdmi with HDCP on ANY Lcd .

Coming soon.

http://www.hdfury.com/

Oh and the website has good info on Hdcp and strippers and such stuff.

Sounds interesting, but a whole lot of this HDCP stuff has been "coming soon" for a long time now.

"This product is exclusively reserved to service center and professionals"

Also doesn't sound too encouraging. I'd still feel much more comfortable with the real thing. Going to call Kontron again in 2-3 hours, I'll report back with any news then.

i think it's a paper launch. if the device does a full digital/digital digital/analog bridge then i can tell you a possible price tag: somewhere $500. on the other hand RGB -4;4:4 is one option, but what if not RGB, but component is travelling over HDMI? Just for the log, each mpeg/vc-1 on the discs are storing video in the YCrCb color space.

Is anyone using a 17" WUXGA laptop screen?

I found a few that have a response time of 8ms,

I have been looking around for a low response time 15.4" lcd panel, but they do not seem to exist.
Has anyone ever found one of those?

The reason is gaming and frame rate.

I was chatting with Dell and their Precision Mobile Workstation LCD is WUXGA and 8ms.

17" WUXGA has benefit over 15.4" when it has real 16.7M colors. otherwise just more difficult to illuminate. 15.4" act as 17" 4:3 with our projection technology while 17" wuxga is similar to 19"-20" 4:3. the smaller the panel (aperture) the more effficient our projection technology. efficient commercial PJs are using 0.7-1.5" diagonal light modulators.

I've been playing with this setting for a while on my G2A (130 I guess) also. It seems to help a lot, I am now pretty darn happy with my colors and stuff with my contrast at 50, saturation at 50, and the internal brightness setting turned down just a couple points... If any of you G2A owners haven't tried it you should!

Also, if anyone can figure out a new way to activate the internal brightness option (without having to have a PC hooked up) please let me know! Every time I have to change it I have to get up to my projector and switch the cables... big PITA!

Tangent man here again... sorry...

Any quick opinions on the Toshiba? Is it ok for gaming? I see the response is a little higher than I like, but GSX's results with it were awesome..

Opinions?

Maybe not

http://www.divineo.cn/cgi-bin/div-cn/vid-hdf.html

yeah. $120 and pre-oder moome @ AVX forum promised a digital/digital stripper for the same price tag, and collected $20 deposit - and we experiencing continous delay...

Have a question for some of you guys using a wuxga with a pc.
Tonight I was playing around with my panel. I hooked it up to the dvi port on my ati800. Threw in a dvd and the actual movie didn't play. I had my crt going at the same time on the same card. Movie played on the crt. Before you start jumping to connection issues. The panel showed my desktop as well as media player which I had at about 3/4 screen. I am using a Sony dvd burner. Is this one of their stupid copyrighting things.

I will take a guess and say that your CRT was likely setup as you main monitor. Video can only be shown on one screen, and not the other. Try simply disconnecting your CRT and you should see video on the LCD no problem. You can also switch so your LCD is the "main" monitor and your CRT the "secondary".

It may also be possible to select which monitor shows video, have a look in the Video Settings of the Cataylst Drivers (set to advanced mode), look for the "Theater Mode" option and you can setup which display shows full screen video. (this is with the new cataylst drivers that run using the NET framework)


cheers,
gs

Thanks Gadget. I tried it without the crt as well. Still nothing.(although I just unhooked it) I'll bet it going into catylist will get it.

After the fall update my 360 set to 1920x1080 no longer worked on my WUXGA panel with Minoten controller, supposedly due to timing issues. Well there has been an update from MS:

Answering other questions, both Xbox 360 Elite and current Xbox 360 units will have a spring (console) update which adds support for different video levels for VGA output ("7.5 IRE vs 0"). And as someone mentioned, using this setting you should be able to use computer monitors in addition to TVs with resolutions all the way up to 1080p with high fidelity and no issues with HDCP handshaking. So for current users, I highly recommend trying this update with your VGA connection to see if it does the job for you. Note that this is a console update and will work for both games and of course, HD DVD. The HD DVD software update is separate from this (and will be available on both Xbox Live and xbox.com).

Might this solve our issues and revert it back to working status for those of us with 360's?

This would be good... At the moment my xbox won't even 'try' to go into a 1080p mode on the vga cable...

Engadget : VESA approves DisplayPort 1.1: kiss those DVI and VGA ports goodbye

http:// www DOT engadget DOT com/2007/04/04/vesa-approves-displayport-1-1-kiss-those-dvi-and-vga-ports-good/


Get ready for hot, hot convergence kids 'cause the DisplayPort 1.1 specification was just approved. The new VESA-approved digital interface standard is meant to replace DVI and VGA ports while co-existing with HDMI for HDTV connectivity. As you can see in the picture above, it's about the size of a USB connector yet offers 2x the performance of DVI in a much smaller package. They also bake in a nasty dollop of HDCP 1.3 content protection to keep the Blu-ray and HD DVD kiddies happy. The wee size allows the interface to be included in smaller handheld electronics while enabling direct-drive LCD panels thereby eliminating the need for non-panel LVDS electronics in the monitor designs. Of course it also supports pass-through of DVI and HDMI signals via simple adapters similar to DVI-to-HDMI variety on the market today. So which of our esteemed manufactures will bite first? We're not sure, but VESA isn't shy about using Dell's high-end XPS systems in their marketing collateral. Of course, the question they don't answer is, why not just move everything to HDMI? For that, you just have to look at who backs royalty-free DisplayPort (the PC industry) and who backs HDMI (the consumer electronics industry). Yeah, we know.

The Kontron controller is ready to order and I will be placing an order for one in a day or two.

The cost of the OSD panel model 22010-KHH is $9.00
The cost of the Cable model AD-AC3-US is $3.00
The cost of the power supply model AD-1250 is $25.00 (12V DC, 50W)
The cost of the panel editor (modify controller settings for each panel) is $0.00
and The controller model 21110 CRTTOLCD-7-MULTIMEDIA cost is $250.00

So that makes a full order, a grand total of $287.00

Kontron excepts credit card orders and will also setup Net 30 terms with anyone that is approved.
So who ever, maybe me, that would handle a group buy could do so on terms.
Otherwise, I'm guessing on terms, we could order 1 or as many as needed at any given time without worry.

The ETA for a device from the day of order is 1-2weeks.
I'll post an update when I have the custom cable costs for the Sharp panel.

Did Kontron ever figure out the config file for running the Sharp panel with their controller?

no. this is what you have to do with the panel editor (kcwb). I'm waiting for my JAE-30 LVDS stuff from mouser. If I get it then I'll order kontron. Kontron won't make any cables for us, I even sent the LCD's data sheet and got no answers back.
but dunno - in case of a bigger group buy they may do things for us. kancerus was on track with his australian contact to organize cable and configuration, both, but kancerus have not posted here since a month...

Ive been busy with other things so haven't been around.

My contact in Kontron said the tech in Germany was working on something else for the company and is too busy at the moment to do anything with our controller - So I am waiting on him to get back to me. I will email him today and tell you guys what he says when he replies.

The fact that its the German tech that is doing this means that for some reason they are listening to my Australian contact more than any other contacts you guys have for some odd reason, because nobody else has had any luck.

Should be it a alternative? http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?a...=20041&st=0

hi!

i'm very interested in a wuxga panel and relative controller as the one of kontron.
i'm an electronic enginner and i'm pretty familiar with lvds and flatpanel concepts so if you send to me the characteristics of the wuxga sharp screen and a copy of the controller's configuration software perhaps i may be able to program it.On the other hand i can't be sure 100% but i can make a try.

Anyway independently of this i'm interested in bying a wuxga panel and its relative controller possibly with tuner input included.


regards
maXer

Hello everyone. Thanks for all the work you guys have put in to finding a suitable 15.4 wuxga solution. Can anyone give a comprehensive update to this point of what the best monitor/controller pairing is. 30 pages worth of threads is a little difficult to understand and I am a bit lost now. From what I understand the kontron controller and sharp lcd panel seem to be the favorites.. is this correct? Thanks for the update.

Not the G2A and Sharp panel are the favorites. The kontron controller hasn't even been purchased or made to work with our 15.4" panels yet.

Here is the latest info :

http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=15376

Hi The sharp panel gives the best price/performance ratio. pse check jonjandran's info topic.
regarding controllers.

winmate G2A 210 - a little bit expensive, but high quality controller, having issues with 720p digital input. full package with cabling, inverter, remote, OSD panel psu - no tuner

realtek controller - Carpow sells them. i have one. it works, no digital input, but has a PAl/SECAM or NTSC tuner depending on your choice. issues: brightness/contrast control doesn't work, scaling quality is poor. complete package with inverter, remote, OSD panel cabling

kontron C2L7-MM - promised to be HDCP compilant. You can buy controller, OSD panel, remote sensor. NO REMOTE CONTROLLER. NO INVERTER. NO LVDS CABLE. The controller is not configured to wuxga panlels, it's factory defaulted to SXGA. With a specal cable (you have to buy that for your project) and software it is promised that you can configure it for wuxga. Most important NO LVDS CABLE - so it's your job to make the interface cable for your LCD. An optional TV analogue tuner module can be bought, if you would like that.

at the moment I'm waiting for JAE-30 connectors from mouser to have the LVDS cable made. Unfortunately i've elected ground post, so it could take 3 months to get delivered. w/o the connectors i won't buy the kontron. I'll probaly have a set enough for 3-4 LVDS cables.

I thought the newest consensus was that the Phillips panels were the better ones at 600:1/16ms vs 400:1/25ms.
And I haven't noticed that much difference in price unless I looked in the wrong place.

~heli0s

Well until someone can confirm the Lg's specs we will have to assume the Sharp is the best "tested" panel.

Confirmed. This is from Philips directly:

LP154WU1

Resolution: 1,920 x 1,200 WUXGA
Aspect Ratio: 16 : 10
Number of Colors: 262K (6 bit)
Brightness (nit): 210
Contrast Ratio: 600 : 1
Viewing Angle (°,H / V): 130/100
Response Time (ms): 16
Interface: LVDS 2 port
Outline Dimension (mm): 344.0 x 222.0
Thickness (mm) (typ.): 6.2
Thickness (mm) (max.): 6.5
Power Consumption (W): 6.5
Weight (g): 560


They also have a 17.1" notebook LCD that has the same specs, but a 700:1 contrast ratio, model LP171WU1.



Here is the whole Philips line Spec sheet right off their website:

http://www.lgphilips-lcd.com/homeContain/j...Philips_LCD.PDF

Uhh no. I mean confirmed as in tested by a Lumenlab member and compared to a Sharp. We already know what LG says.

Do you not believe the manufacturer's published spec sheets for any particular reason? I mean, if you want a new car with say 200 horsepower, you go look at the manufacturer specs and buy one. Most people don't say I'll buy the old 150hp model instead because I haven't seen anyone do a comparison to confirm it's really 200hp. You take the manufacturers word for it, and if it turns out later they lied, well... most big companies know all the class action lawyers are always prowling.

I hope I don't sound condescending, I'm not trying to be. I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from. Have you experienced LCD companies mis-labeling?

you're kidding right ?! they all lie ! ... they do whatever they can to get the best published number.

i'd simply like to see it verified to work with the G2A (or other) controller...

gs

Man o man where do I start........

No I don't believe the manufacturers in the A/V industry. They straight out lie and when they do tell the truth it's their version of the truth.

"Our lcd has a 2ms refresh rate (if you test it a certain way in the South Pole on a moonless night)"
"Our Lcd has a Contrast Ratio of 100,000:1 (if.........)

Are you starting to see a trend.

Why do some 30ms Lcds exhibit no ghosting whatsoever on games/movies but some 8ms lcds do ?

No I only trust multiple user reviews. We know the Sharp is the best of the Sharp/Toshiba/Samsung bunch. The Lg looks better on paper but it has not been used much yet , so I'll wait for more reviews before I change my assessment.

jonjandran i've hooked up mine to the realtek controller from carpow. LG.P is the best ever NB LCD i've seen (on its backlit) - but as other NB LCDs do, it's sensitive for viewing angle very much, see discussioniat the dazz/ozzie/elken 10.6 topic.

regarding LCDs - some mfrs ar specifying g2g reponse time, while others "full" response time. full is approx the dounle of g2g. everything specified under 10 ms, can be assumed g2g. anything under 5ms means that panel uses "overdive" - and you will see ghosting/contour aliasing in certain cases.

I concede that point. I am aware LCD manufacturers do *twist* the data to look better on paper quite often (although I don't believe lying per se). I've also done more research on LCDs than I care to admit , including reading boring lab data analysis reports for quite a few in detail including several LG TV displays, but I've yet to locate the LG 15.4's sheet. Those will tell you the best information and are what the manufacturers use (and twist) to come up with their sometimes crazy figures.

I guess I take for granted my extra eye on what the numbers usually mean. As sfij points out there are certain good rules of thumb though that you can use to tell how they come up some numbers, and what it can really do. For instance, if I want a highly transmisive LCD, a high brigtness/low contrast would be what I'm after. Or when I see a response less than 16 I think it's pretty fair to say they're more likely to be fudging numbers. And I'm more especially inclined to believe a 16ms at only 6-bit is true response time than if it were an 8-bit. I do know that VESA was trying to force a standard on measurements for LCDs, but it was supposed to be in place by the end of last year so who knows when it would really take affect.



Two things. Input lag, and motion blur. A lot of people confuse motion blur with ghosting which is not the same thing. Often a very fast display may show the appearance of smeared objects because of this, and people say, "ooo ghosting, what's the deal." Input lag also contributes as most manufacturers don't publish this right out. This can be as high as 65ms in some cases! The deal is they're trying to make chips to compensate for the input lag so they don't have to worry so much about it, but it doesn't always work. Some even overcompensate and you get blur in the wrong direction which I've seen.

Anyway, I think I'm arguing your point for you.

I guess my opinion was coming more from the overall fact that from the other data sheets I've read by LG I haven't seen too much outrageous fudging from them, and the general published specs jive with what I've seen so I was more inclined to believe it.... If that makes any sense... It's like if someone tells you they have a car that goes 800 mph, you say "yeah right, I'll believe it when I see it", but if they say 200mph you might be more likely to believe it. I still think the LG specs are right, but I guess I should try and be more cautious.

Well the thing is I do believe them. But I'm not going to tout the LG as being better than the Sharp until I see it with my own eyes or a few LL Members say it is.

That's why I responded that currently the G2A/Sharp combo is the best available.

yepp, you are right. on the other hand I do. i have seen working both of them in dell notebooks. but as i said LG.P is far more expensive ... and i feel most pepole won't even notice the difference - however i do. i'm so sensitive on each infamy LCDs do. I still have the opinion that while LCDs are perfect for info display, for use with the MS office suite, but not capable to display video w/o seroius artifacts.

Understood.

Is it that much more expensive? What kind of price ranges have you seen? The reason I'm tracking this thread is because I'm considering getting one soon (just waiting to see how the Kontron thing turns out first), and from my browsing around I only saw a small difference price. But maybe you guys have better sources?

For instance, you can buy a brand new LG for about $268 from http://smartmicrousa.com, and probably cheaper if you search eBay. On the other hand I've been seeing the Sharp go for around $250 at places like http://www.247laptoplcd.com (refurb), again cheaper on eBay if you have patience. Any other good sources?

thx
heli0s

heli0s, yepp smart micro usa is the best source if you are looking for LG.P gear. if you would like the sharp, look around here http://www.screentekinc.com/, sharp can be bought for $220-$250. but be careful, some vendors listing the same lcd with different prices depending on whether it is sold for an economy or premium class notebook. the price may vary in a $100-$150 range!

Carpow has Sharp's for around 170., and the LG for about 10.-more...[best for a group-buy, though, considering fees/shipping]

what control board is that? I have one just like it and don't know what it is

Well, I have the G2A and the LG panel... I'll let you know when I get it built, jonjandran.

~Archilea

Thanks

Can you tell just by watching it outside of the PJ. I mean are you familiar with "ghosting" "smearing" and low contrast enough to evaluate how good it does before you strip it ?

Hi Guys,

My contact has been on holiday and just got back to me, this is what he said:

"Will call engineer and check his current workload, I do know that he picked up another job for prototype when I was away. Anyway here is quote for units, freight will be advised when you provide delivery details."

So will wait and see what his workload is.

The quote he gave me for the CRT2LCD7 Multimedia is below and all the prices are in $AUD

1 Unit $450
10 Units $340
20 Units $300

So thats a pretty decent discount if we can get at least 20 buyers

Um... As I understand it, Grey to grey usually takes longer, because it takes time to settle on the correct greyscale, whereas with "full (White-black/black-white) the mfr can and will use overdrive on the transistors. This is one way to boost their performance numbers.

Using too much overdrive leads to the "glitter" effect, particularly noticeable along moving edges, and is often a byproduct of the "really fast" LCDs.

Also, there are many LCD manufacturers who have their panels specifically optimised for response testing, where it does poorly under "real world" conditions.

Forcing them to back their claims? What's the point. Electronics manufactuers learned long ago that better numbers = better sales. Even if your customers KNOW you're lying through your teeth. Look at the audio industry. How many times have you seen outrageous claims of high wattage on sound systems? I remember looking at a car amplifier claiming to be 400W (100WX4 channel) but looking at the amp itself, I noted that it had a 15A fuse. This means that the fuse would blow if it drew more than 15A. Even if we assume that the car might get as high as 15V while the alternator is charging the battery, that means 15V * 15A = 225W. Hey! These people are in the wrong business! If they can put out 400W from a device that only takes in 225W, they should be supplying electricity! I bought one, just to see. I put it on my test bench, gave it 14V and a 1kHz signal, and measured the output. 13W/channel. They claimed 100W, and I measured 13W. Now I was measuring "real" watts, and not a "max" measurement, which is completely ficticious. This is basically a way to double the measure, so I could see my way clear to their claim meaning that I should measure 50W. So what happened to the other 37W? Well, if I tested only one channel at a time, (Making it easier on the power supply) I got 16W, 34 to go. I overdrove the signal voltage into clipping, (Where the amp can no longer properly handle the full signal strength) and got 23W, 27 to go. Then I started raising the supply voltage. At 21V the fuse popped, and I measured 38W (This is only one channel, remember!) I replaced the fuse with a 30A unit. At 46V (Nearly 4 times the nominal voltage that it was supposed to run on!) I measured 43W on the output, right before the power supply melted. I think I might have been able to measure 50W (100W max power) if I'd fed the amp 60V for about a second before the power supply exploded. It was an educational way to spend $45. This was rated in MAX watts. Don't even get me started on PMPO (Peak Music Power Output) ratings!

To summarize, the manufacturer may not outright lie. They might just run the tests so far out of "real world" conditions that the numbers say what they want them to say. It's a time honoured technique.

Damn I just got hosed! I bought a "wuxga" panel off ebay. I just looked up the model number, and *gasp* it's a WSXGA! 1680x1050 is really good, but still not wuxga. Does anyone have any experience with this panel? The specs look okay on it.

http://www.samsung.com/Products/TFTLCD/Not...P1/LTN154P1.htm

I like the contrast and response time, and it's *almost* 1080p.

Should I keep it? I wonder if carpow's controller will work with it. Also, there are no cables hanging off of it. It seems like all the wuxga panels I've seen have the cables on them.

SupraGuy.

Regarding LCDs. There are 3 different basic types. TN, VA and IPS. TN and IPS have no level dependent response time. TN is the fastest, but has poor viewing angles. IPS has the best colour rendering, but slow. TN and IPS response times are not grey level dependent. However VA panels are. VA tends to have 80-120ms response times in certaing grey-to-grey cases. overdrive have been introduced to reduce that to 20 ms. Sometimes overdrive is used in IPS to reduce its 30-50ms response time.

Regrading audio amplifier wattage. You won't need 100W to pump in to have the sound loud enough. One of my friend is buliding TL boxes from fostex spakers, having sensitivity 98dB/W/m. Belive me, if I pump in 2 watts i got 130dB out within three meters. big wattage is about poorly designed loudspeakers.

Same thing happened to me TWICE even after contacting the sellers before I purchased, but both gladly took it back and refunded quickly. The ironic thing was that one sellers name was something to the effect of "ComputerGuru" but when I messaged him mentioning it was a WSXGA panel, he asked what the difference was.