I for one am picking up the G2A210, is everyone turned off by the lack of HDCP or something? What makes this not a great card?

by the end of January I hope to have my 1080p projector done. so why isn't anyone excited about it? it offers almost every input known to man

As far as I can tell, more and more devices are coming with HDCP encryption on them. Lots of the upconverting DVD players do, and I wouldn't be surprised if a majority or all of the Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players will. Computers are also pushing toward HDCP. (Can anybody elaborate on this for me?)

Also, I seem to recall something about HDCP in the PS3, so you can't use the full resolution.

Nasty virus it is... thank you, multinationals.

It's my understanding that if you don't have an HDCP compliant cotroller
for your monitor you will not be able to use blue ray and HD DVD players and HD settop boxes, the 1080p signal will be dumbed down to a lower resolution.

You can buy a winmate controller which does not have HDCP and hope to get some kind of device that will fool it the players, and this will work for a while until they find out about the device and update the unappoved list at which point it will stop working and you and you are back to square one.

If I am wrong I am sure someone will correct me

Mystic

i love to see people post up about not getting anything accomplished, and then not doing anything to help

There are HDCP Strippers out there and I'm sure once the HDCP hits the fan tons of them will be available. For upconverting DVD players or the new HD blue laser discs, if the HDCP stripper works with it, it isn't like it will one day just stop working (unless you do a firmware update on it or something). If later on, you buy another device and it doesn't work with the HDCP Stripper, well that is different I suppose.

I believe HDCP will deter the masses, but if you really want to get around it, there will be ways. DVD encryption, XBOX modding, OSX on a PC, WMA DRM, it's all been figured out. You'll just have to give some smart guys on the internet a little bit of time to reverse engineer it.

I read somewere were the DVD themselfs will have the updates on them
and when you put it in the player it will update the player and stop working. sending the 1080p signal but I don't remember were I read it

There are going to be a lot of upset people out there when they find out there HD TV'S stop working because they bought them a couple of years ago

Mystic

True...but it will just 'drive' more peep's into downloading/pirating into mpg4&such...very 'counter-productive' for this paranoid industry (if they'd concentrate on delivering 'value' at reasonable-cost, there BE far less 'piracy').
But, regardless all-that, there are already up-converting Helios/Momitsu/etc. players that can circumvent 'issues' with HDCP and/or output via dvi/component&vga for viewing at up-to 1080P. I _don't_ know what issues will be presented by the first-to-market blue-ray/HD-players (they 'may' require a blackbox-approach for full-function, or they may work via output to players with inputs 'hacked' re: back-handshake for HDCP), but I'm sure that it will be something 'addressable' from future HTPC-playback.
At any rate, I'll feed my hd-PJ from my existing dvd-collection, and PC-based sat-tv and HTPC-content, and really just want a 'working' dvi/vga and/or component-inputed controller-board for South-of-200., so I can substitute a high-res 15.4 for my ProView 1280X800...
I'm confident that HDCP won't be the 'success' the industry-leaders are hoping-for...<g>

All of this is true, however, if the Kontron comes with HDCP and is the same price as the Winmate or less why wouldn’t you buy it? I already have a G2A but couldn’t get the one with component inputs because they were out of stock in the US. So now I’m stuck with an almost useless DVI port. As far as I'm concerned my G2A will be for sale when I find another controller, HDCP stripper, or hacks on the internet down the road.

Not sure if your comment was directed at me or not? but here is what they sent me

Jerry,

I checked with our Product Managers and will not be bringing in the CRTtoLCD-7 anytime soon. Unfortunately, your best bet would be to try and get this part from Germany.

Best Regards,

Huan Trang
Inside Sales Engineer

I beleive this guy just did'nt want to deal with us.

I talked to Randy who Computer Cowboy has talked with, he wants to sell us the controller but he wants to make sure it will work with our application he said "he wants to take our money but he did'nt want to give it back, lol.

I guess we will see.

Mystic

With all piracy aside, all i want is to be able to output at full 1080p to my wuxga projector. People are missing the point here. HDCP is not just about piracy its also about non compliant devices. If a certain blue ray player is HDCP enabled and u hook it up to your PJ then u will not get any picture.

where is Mr. Trang from? The California office?

Well...fortunately, there will be plenty of us unconcerned with HDCP willing to buy those discounted-'rejects'...<g>
IF HDCP should successfully limit their public viewing dvd's at 480P -- my response (and many-others) will be to ignore such HD-purchases, and settle for up-converting existing dvd's [standard-def] to 720P...until the industry removes it's head-from-derriere.
But sure...I'd prefer an affordable controller with HDCP (I just can't imagine how anyone can/will provide it -- due to a licensing-fee for a product 'not of scale'). In meantime, some of us just want an affordable-controller to drive 15.4-wugxa's...and one or two must (or will) be out-there, somewhere...?

Not sure I called the number on the data sheet they asked were I lived and was forwarded to him

Mystic

Still the G2A210 for me, those component inputs seem sexy. I can't wait for my Tax Refund! and I'LL FINALLY HAVE A DA**ED TABLE SAW TO BUILD A REAL BOX!!!

meh HDCP Isn't a factor for me, I'm not playing anything PS3 related, 360 doesnt support it as far as I know, and the Wii is still as golden as ever.

Considering that the WUXGAs control aspect ratios and etc, they eliminate the need for an outside source (EG: Viewsonic N6) I'm not too happy with the Responce time on any of the LCDs though, does anyone have knowladge of a good responce timed LCD that'd work with the G2A10?

Nope the fastest is the Sharp. 25ms 400:1

I am waiting to. Now the holidays are slowing things down.
I don't expect we will know anything for sure until mid - Jan.

I have been very busy since I picked up a new programming project last week. I am trying to develop an app and roll it out to 15 clients by the end of the year. Anyway i haven't devoted much time to the PJ or the Kontron thing for a couple weeks.

Thats what makes the kontron crt-lcd7 controler so inviting. It will alow us to use a flash program to update our controlers to support several different lcd's.without sending the card back or purchasing a new controler.
Even without the HDCP its a better solution than the g2a series cards. (IMO)
Now if they do release a crt-lcd7 card with HDCP support there will be no choice anymore between the 2 controlers.

So...what happened to the other 15.4"-thread (had a lot of good-info assembled...)? [Now 'as before'...?]

[edit: BTW -- Anyone here currently enjoying 1080P, and who can compare it (as-'projected') with true/displayed-720p -- as far as PQ from standard/upconverted dvd/movie-playback?]

Heya all. I've recently decided to build mine for 1080p (when I get to build...It'll be a while yet....) and I was wondering something. If I don't plan to use a HTPC, is HDCP an issue for me? For example, the plan I have is to get HD cable, and run that, with a HDMI cable from the cable box to a HT reciever. At present, there is a Sony home theater in a box kit that has 2 HDMI inputs, and 1 HDMI out. As I said, I run the cable box to an HDMI in on the reciever, then run the video signal out on an HDMI cable, add a HDMI to DVI adapter, ($33 at Best Buy), and connect a DVI cable to the LCD. I am told by people here, and by others I know that the signal used for HDMI and DVI are the same, except that HDMI allows the audio signal to move as well. Audio getting to the PJ isn't an issue for me, as there are no speakers connected to it. The Sony kit I mentioned is under $300 at Walmart. I got a Sony "Dream System" when they first came out, and have been extraordinarily happy with it. The kit above is just a more up to date version of it. If need be, I can get a HDMI/Component switch box to connect to the other HDMI in on the reciever, for XBox 360, Blue-Ray/HD DVD, etc.

After describing my plan, does anyone see a need for me to demand HDCP on my controller board?

Thanks, in advance, for any assistance you are able to provide.

Later!

Your cable box probably does have HDCP if it uses HDMI. You would need to contact your cable provider to find out.

So probably the G2A boards wouldn't work for you. You would need a controller with HDCP.

Ok. I guess my question then is, does the TV, PJ, whatever, need to be able to decode the signal, or is the signal decrypted by the cable box? For example, I have brand X HDTV. ( Actually, I have no HDTV at this point, which is why I'm asking..... ) Are HDTV's, by default, able to HDCP compliant, or not. If not, can the reciever be used to decode it? If not, is someone who has a non-HDCP HDTV just screwed? If the signal coming from the cable box is not encrypted, it should, in theory, work on a DVI connection. If HDCP is required, does anyone have a board that allows this at all, and if not, is one on the horizon? If it does exist, how much does the available option cost? Sorry if these have been covered, but I'm apparently a lot more confused than I thought. (No pun intended....)

Thanks again!

Later!

If HDCP is enabled and you don't have an HDCP TV, then you need what is known as an HDCP stripper. They cost anywhere from $125-$300 and sometimes show up on Ebay.

Well now....

I've been doing a bit of reading, and I understand more about HDCP now. I also see HUGE problems brewing. It looks as though you will have to be HDCP compliant (somehow) to view HDTV in the coming months. I say somehow, because you can do it legit, or with a stripper. That makes sense, so far, and shouldn't be an issue, once HDTV's come compliant as a standard. Still leaves the DIY PJ builder hanging a bit, but the overall issue should be small.

Where I see problems coming is with the Key Revocation ability. As we have seen, Human nature will lead to compromise of legitimate keys. So, one day a bunch of completely legit HDTV owners are going to find thier HDTV no longer working in HD, or at all. Every copy protection technology that I've heard of has been defeated. Where there's a will, there's a way. Even if the hackers figure out the algorithm used in the keys, the chance that legitimate keys will be duplicated exists, and legal HDTV systems will be affected. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. Also, I think it kinda sucks for people who went and bought the HDTV's before HDCP was implemented. But, when you own the market, I guess you can screw customers if you want. And, since the entire industry seems to be going this way, it's going to be interesting.

Thanks again for the answers.

Later!

'Screwing customers' never deterred anti-piracy oriented corporations...until and unless it cuts into their bottom-line. I very-much doubt we'll ever see Key-'turn-offs' on any brand-name/popular equipment -- it would be ruinous to their coveted 'branding image', and just won't be implemented (unless substitute-keys can be 'secure-downloaded' in a firmware-fashion for compromised-equipment).
As for DIY-PJ's, many of our PJ-lcd's _are_ HDCP-compliant (these initial controller-boards for the current-crop of wuxga/1080P/15.4" lappy-lcd's are just 'slow to serve a small-market').
Strippers, though, of various-types are always an alternative for those who bought-in to HD-display/utility early (and those who do-or-will decide to 'pirate' HD-content). And there are several work-arounds out there even now, and I'd guess that many-more will join them and become popular -- as more HD-fans are 'won', and find the whole HDCP-concept insulting/restricting enough to 'drive them to the dark-side'...<g>
At any rate, I'm sure there will be an HDCP-controller located soon-enough for your potential-build. Personally, I'm getting less-and-less concerned about future-proofing re: HDCP, since it's likely going to be a LONG time before I commit-the-funds to full HD-library/sourcing (I'm leaning more towards a decent PJ-display of 720P-upconverted dvd's via vga and/or component/dvi). And, a 15.4" 1080I/P lcd would still appeal (especially with better response-time) for HTPC-output, as a great deal of non-HDCP HD-content will become available to 'sample' via internet/hacks in near-future -- making the facility and use of a 1080-PJ of 'interest' [HDCP-compliant-or-no].

I would have to dissagree with that statement as the sharp lcd being the fastest of the listed panels. I have found the specs for the LG philips LP154WU1 and it stated the response time as 16ms and the contrast ratio as 600:1 with that being said it seems theres a new top runner in the 1080p quest. you will also notice the 17.1 panel boasts a 700:1 CR
now if we could only get a controler with HDCP

heres the pdf with the specs http://www.lgphilips-lcd.com/homeContain/j...Philips_LCD.PDF

Well the LG philips LP154W01 is a WXGA NOT a WUXGA screen. It is 1280x800 not 1920x1200 like the Sharp. That means it's not even a contestant in the 1080p race.

http://www.screentekinc.com/lg_philips-not...k-screens.shtml
?
but:
http://www.humanthink.co.kr/data/LG_Philips_LCD.PDF
to contrary...

Notice that the LG philips LP154W01 is a 1280x800 screen ?

The 1920x1080 screens are the LG philips LP154WU1 series. And we don't have specs on them other than what Minoten said that they were 350:1 cr and 35ms response.

oops!!! sorry i made a typo its the LP154WU1 man i better be more carefull

Hmm I see now. But one thing has me worried.

That is their latest LG pdf and nowhere in the last 2 years did LG mention the LP154WU1 as having these specs.

So can we assume that the LG LP154WU1 from the last 2 years had these specs and they just failed to mention it ? Or are they just now manufacturing them to those specs ?

But maybe someone can buy one and test it out , it should be fairly obvious if it is 600:1 and 16ms response.

Who's the guinea pig

LG Wuxga Ebay

im still need to find a good controller before i think about a new LCD

that would be me i just purchased a LP154WU1 lcd from ebay for $162 shiped. But the problem is im not ready to jump into a controler just yet I have an sgi 1600sw pj right now and i definetly want a controler with HDCP.I recently bought a lg flatron 19" widescreen lcd with 2000:1 contrast and a 5ms response time and my sgi spanked it .the only thing i was pleased with on the lg was the hdcp that alowed me to run directly from my dtv hd reciever . when i do get a controler i will give my honest opnion on how it compares to my sgi

1 thing i realy need to know from the ppl with 15.4" lcd's is
Do you have any light bleed on the top or bottom of your projection?

Do you mean bleed from between the LCD and frame? No. If you did have leaks, nothing electrical tape cant fix.

No i don't mean a leak but more like the lcd itself cannot block the light completly.Its like looking at a monitor and you can see the backlight bleeding thru the backround on the top or bottom its very noticable on a black screen

I think I know what you mean. I got a widescreen LCD monitor last year and in games with full brightness it's wonderful, but games that are typically dark (say, Doom 3), you get light "blushes" around the edges, where pure black becomes gray. Is that what you mean?

That'd probably have to do with the LCD's backlight, but I'm still in progress on my light engine, so I can't say what it would look like with a totally "black" screen.

So I guess what would need to be done is to run a blank screen through the LCD with the light engine on and see how uniform the "blackness" is...

If there were such a 'blush' showing due to the rectangular-nature of our wide-screens entering round-triplets [off-square-peg driven into round-hole? <g>], would not a masking with a slightly-larger/proportionate rectangle immediately behind triplet-entry help (by denying stray/incidental light scattered in forward-compartment)? [I've wondered if PQ couldn't be similarly-improved by such a 'notched-filter/mask' introduced behind the condensor (at the smallest focal-convergence from point-source/pre-con), also -- less total-lumens, but 'cleaner'...?]

Yes that is very close to what i mean but what i have is much more drastic. Its to the point where anything dark that comes up on the screen in that area will be faded out like a major loss of contrast sort of like tilting the lcd screen till the colors fall off to almost a chrome color. It dosent show up in brighter colors... only dark colors.I can also eliminate it if i rotate the lcd 180 degrees but then i have an upsidedown image
I'm realy hoping i can eliminate this with the new 15.4" lcd

If the input color to the LCD is pure black, it turns out pure black on my screen. So I would say contrast is good.

Does anyone know if the G2A210 Supports 1080p over VGA and Component? I know Jon's been having trouble with his 130 displaying 1080p over VGA and Component.

Should I just send an Email to mr Huang?

It supports 1080p over component. But over VGA it supports a computer 1920x1200 graphic signal but it doesn't fully support a 1920x1080 1080p Video signal. It depends on the timing and refresh rate of the signal being sent over VGA. That's why when Microsoft changed their VGA signal on the 360 it stopped working with the Wuxga G2A controllers.

I think jon is right. On my g2a using vga, I can do 1920x1200 properly when I choose the reduced blanking option. Normally, I would have an offset image. But in reduced blanking mode I get other problems. I start getting horizontal jaggy lines when playing a 1920x1080 video @ full screen. I can see it's being played natively only up until I make it full screen. Also when I choose the 1920x1080 resolution. It works, but the left margin of the screen is missing. So I get the 16:9 aspect ratio working, but the "start" menu button is missing on screen. Nothing seems to be fixing that and the people @ winmate haven't replied back with an answer.

So would it do 1080p over component? I think I remember jon saying something about it doing converting it to 1080i is this true?

No over component you get true 1080p.

But if you are using the Xbox 360 it won't upconvert Dvd's past 480p over component. But games and Hd-Dvd will be 1080p.

oh cool good good, that makes me happy

I have two pieces of info that might help people around here out:

1.) 360s WILL have HDMI outputs relatively soon. This is not a rumor, but a fact, I promise

2.) With the controller from Minoten's last group buy (it's the G2A130? is that right?) there is an extra option in the OSD called "Internal Brightness" that only comes up when you feed it a signal on the VGA input (not SOG). I believe this is what is causing the washed out/too dark images for some ppl.

And now I have a question for anyone with this controller... is the saturation control ALWAYS greyed out for DVI inputs?

VGA looks great once I crank up the saturation, but DVI doesn't look quite right. I just ordered the new T15 bulb with the better CRI, any testimonials about how great it is?

1. This is heavily debated and I'm not touching it.

2. My Internal Brightness NEVER works , no matter what connection I use. And saturation ALWAYS works not matter what connection I use.

I was in Minotens 3rd group buy. So I think different G2A130's have different revisions and work slightly differently.

Well, in my experience the internal brightness is good at 50... higher or lower just looks too dark/washed out. Now I need to figure out how to get my saturation working!

HDMI is definately coming, no worries, you'll just have to take my word for it.

I kind of just want to conferm something, does the G2A210 Support 1080p over component? I'm sure of VGA and most Likely DVI, but Component?