I was hoping some one else would start a thread on the DVD play back abilities of some of the cheaper video cards but no one has.

I don't really care if it the card is ATI or NVIDIA just that the offer good to great up scaling from 720P to 1280x1024. A look at the filters and hardware acceleration and CPU usage will give us a better idea of how a low end PC might perform with the card too.

The first card that looks good is the NVIDIA with the 6200A chip set it looks to have all of the current DVD playback features and filters and is really cheep I found one here.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16814141040

And a look at the feature set of the 6200a chip set.


Chipset, The 6200A
Chipset Manufacturer NVIDIA
GPU GeForce 6200A
Core clock 350MHz
PixelPipelines 4
Memory
Memory Clock 533MHz
Memory Size 256MB
Memory Interface 64-bit
Memory Type GDDR2
3D API
DirectX DirectX 9
OpenGL OpenGL 2.0
Ports
D-SUB 1
DVI 1
TV-Out HDTV Out
VIVO No
General
Vista Ready Yes
Tuner None
RAMDAC 400 MHz
Max Resolution 2048x1536@60Hz
SLI Supported No
Cooler Fanless
Features
Features Next-Generation Superscalar GPU Architecture
Full Microsoft DirectX 9.0 Shader Model 3.0 Support
NVIDIA CineFX4.0 Engine
NVIDIA Intellisample 4.0 Technology
True High Dynamic-Range (HDR) Rendering Support
NVIDIA PureVideo Technology
Adaptable Programmable Video Processor
High-Definition H.264, MPEG-2 and WMV Hardware Acceleration
Advanced Spatial Temporal De-Interlacing
High-Quality Scaling
Video Color Correction
NVIDIA UltraShadow II Technology
128-Bit Studio-Precision Computation
Full-Speed 32-Bit Color Precision
NVIDIA ForceWare Unified Driver Architecture (UDA)
OpenGL 2.0 Optimizations and Support
NVIDIA nView Multi-Display Technology
NVIDIA Digital Vibrance Control 3.0 Technology

If any one want to add there knowledge about the feature set for DVD play back or a ATI card or two that would be nice.

any AGP/PCIX vidcard will let you play DVD

their maximum resolution will be sumthing like 1600x1200, and whatever the drivers or FFDshow will upscale using precise bicubic interpolation.

get the cheapest you can find, my personal choice would be sumthing like a used 6600 but it doesn't matter

I would seriously recommend an ATI Radeon X550 with "128 bit memory interface". Don't buy that Geforce 6200A. I'm using an MSI X550 with 128 bit memory interface, and I'm very satisfied with its playback performance. Its "overlay" quality & performance is quite better than my old 9xxx Radeons and my brother's Geforce 6600.

It uses very little amount of cpu even when I'm watching a 1080p movie (you must have right codecs-drivers). I get very different results with different drivers: So my driver recommendation is Catalyst 6.7. I've also overclocked it nicely (gpu@475 mhz mem.@680 mhz). I can even play popular games with reasonable graphics quality and frame rate. But I'm not sure if it has AGP version...


Update: I've tested cpu usage of HD content playback. Results: 720p movies = ~1% , 1080p movies = ~30%... My system: Nforce 4 chipset, A64 3000+ cpu @ 2610 mhz (290x9), Radeon X550 gpu @ 475/680 mhz , 2x512 MB ddr400 memory @ 520 mhz (with 1T & dual channel enabled) , raid 0 hdd, WinXP 64 bit Edition... Used VLC Player for playback. I definitely suggest that VLC player for anyone with any kind of system, who plays HD content.

Nice low end system What no dual core yet? I will look at the X550 too . Newegg had this one for AGP, but ATI is not listing much on the speks.(edit This from some one still with a barton core it just wont quit)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16814125170

Do any of the new drivers take advantage of 64 bit for DVD playback?

I was thinking that you don't need a 128 bit mem bus for video with no textures to transfer but I could be wrong.

I would not say that any card will play DVD the same and look the same but I have not used many curent cards for DVD playback on a large screen. I have a ATI9600 and a 850 pro sitting here I should give a test drive with. You can really see the coder at work on a 140" screen.

I may be puting a mb in the PJ so thats why I want to stay with a low priced card.

av, I've got an nvidia 6600GT .. might be a bit out of the price range though... I can put it through it's paces if that'd be helpful. Let me know (PM in case i forget to check the thread )

Gigabyte one looks good, it's really cheap. However I couldn't get any info about its memory brand. You know, you must overclock it to get reasonable -HD playback- performance. That's why I buy overclockable low end cards lol.

128 bit memory interface is kind of important, especially when you're playing some 1080p (there's huuuuge data traffic) content. Higher clock speeds, and more bandwith will give you less cpu usage.

You're right about making tests with an X850, because its overlay quality should be idenctical with mine (same generation, same architecture for 2D imo). That could be a true reasoning...

What we need is a few pictures that show mistakes the decoders make. I saw one the other day of a chrome care grill that looked way better with the NV6000 v the 7000 ATI then we could see how they handle difficult frames.

Some reviews would be OK too.

Test images would have to be video, right? Still frames wouldn't really show much since there wouldn't be any video to decode, which is unfortuneate since that would be much easier to find and post...
You could check out Tom's Hardware VGA Charts, it isn't a direct comparison of decoding ability, but it will give you a list of which chipset is in each card in the chart, memory & clock speeds, pixel pipelines.. and a few other stats. I'm sure you could use the various benchmarks to get a genral idea of which cards have more horsepower, as far as generating more fps in games and application stability.

I can encode any test image into a movie. Ff it is not moving then you will not test all the coder filters but its a start. We don't have to do all of this I'm sure some one else has. links are OK too.

I've been looking around for some test patterns or video.. I haven't really come up with too much. Any luck?
Ogo seems to know his way around video cards and display technology.. as I recall he said that anything nvidia 6xxx or 7xxx series would alow the purevideo decoder to be used, which is superior to previous methods of decoding. The 6200 you found would probably fit that bill..
I've also got a geforce2ultra (64mb) agp card in a 1.6ghz amd box - and there are few things for sale older than that card. If you want to post up a link or file- i'd be happy to put it through it's paces.

Looks like the ATI might have a slight edge

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1916994,00.asp

Some of the Nvidia cards charge $20.00 for the DVD driver? WTH

Interesting find AV. It is really nice to see that comparison being done so recently. ATI does look like it's more flexible and powerful right now. I didn't know that purevideo cost any extra... that's pretty lame. Are you looking to go with ATI now? It does sound like for most normal DVD watching the two compainies are equivalent.
I just checked newegg- and the current prices for the two cards they compared (gf7800gtx and x1800xt). 7800gtx is going for $250 (recertified), and the x1800xt is $510. In some cases ATI's price premium might not be worth it (if it is more expensive for equivalent cards of lower cailber)

I have rules for buying computer parts. Never spend more than $100 for that part!

I need to find out when ATI started to use the AVIVO function. Luckly for the low end cards they normaly just disable some of the pipelines for 3-d and they leave the DVD playback alone.

The ATI Radeon X550 with 128 bit memory interface just might be it.

Edit. It does look like the Radion X1300 chip is the one to get from ATI it has a 400 MH core ans some come with the 128bit mem bus too and no fan The main thing is they all have the new shader3.0 and the Avivo instructions.

This is the cheepest x1300 for AGP at $76.00

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16814161015

Click to view attachment

Model
Brand HIS Hightech
Model H130H256AN
Interface
Interface AGP 4X/8X
Chipset
Chipset Manufacturer ATI
GPU Radeon X1300
Core clock 450MHz
PixelPipelines 4
Memory
Memory Clock 500MHz
Memory Size 256MB
Memory Interface 128-bit
Memory Type GDDR2
3D API
DirectX DirectX 9
OpenGL OpenGL 2.0
Ports
D-SUB 1
DVI 1
TV-Out HDTV/S-Video Out
VIVO No
General
Vista Ready Yes
Tuner None
RAMDAC 400 MHz
Max Resolution 2560x1600
Cooler Fanless
Operating Systems Supported Windows 2000/XP
System Requirements 256MB of System Memory
Power supply of 350 (and up) watt is highly recommended for system stability
Installation software requires CD-ROM drive
DVD playback requires DVD drive and decoder software (not included)
Features
Features 2 Vertex shader processor
4 Geometry Pipelines
Ultra-threaded SM 3.0 Engine
Advanced memory controller
ATI Avivo
High Precision Architecture
AGP support via Riato

You save $15 by going for PCI express

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16814102001

Click to view attachment

Then the reall cheepie, the low profile card I may need this if I build the MB into the top of the PJ same chip so it should play DVD's great and still have the Avivo function. You only have a 64bit mem bus.

If I have to I could remove the mounting plate and the VGA plug could be repositioned.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16814102010

Click to view attachment

AMD did buy ATI so they now have there sell sheet on Avivo

http://ati.amd.com/technology/avivo/features.html

Don't forget NVIDIA Pure Video. They push it as more of a software solution than hardware you just need a NVIDIA chip?

http://www.nvidia.com/page/purevideo.html

This list is a lot better it is the only one I have seen that shows all of the filters of Pure Video.

http://www.nvidia.com/page/purevideo_support.html

good rule. ... especially for video cards.

I've run both an ATI 9550 and ATI X700Pro, both work great, and cost me less than $100... the x550 would be more than enough for DVD playback (and fine for most gaming as well...)

Well if we go all the way to $76.00 it is not fair to leave out Nvida 128 bit buss cards based on the 7000 chips.

Look mom 8 PixelPipelines no 4 like the ATI

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16814125036

Model
Brand GIGABYTE
Model GV-NX73T256P-RH
Interface
Interface PCI Express x16
Chipset
Chipset Manufacturer NVIDIA
GPU GeForce 7300GT
PixelPipelines 8
Memory
Memory Size 256MB
Memory Interface 128-bit
Memory Type GDDR2
3D API
DirectX DirectX 9
OpenGL OpenGL 2.0
Ports
D-SUB 1
DVI 1
TV-Out HDTV/S-Video Out
VIVO No
General
Vista Ready Yes
Tuner None
RAMDAC 400 MHz
Max Resolution 2048x1536
RoHS Compliant Yes
SLI Supported Yes
Cooler Fanless
Features
Features CineFX 4.0 Engine
Intellisample 4.0
90nm Process Technology
UltraShadow II
nView Multi-Display Technology
PureVideo
Turbo Force Technology

A look


Click to view attachment

The AGP card is $100 for the 7000 chip and $80 for the 6600 chip

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16814133184

I went ahead and bought the NVIDIA 6200A in the first post. I liked the ATI X1300 better and they had an OK one for PCI-E but the AGP card was about $100.00 and the 6200 is low profile with a flex cable on the VGA so I have better mounting options. I only have about 3” height clearance to fit in a MB and video card.

I hope Biostar gives me one that works, they generally make crap. For now I'm going to use the kids AMD computer with the new card and a new DVD drive to drive the PJ.

I just got an old Intel MB with a 1.6 gig chip so I may put the MB in the PJ but first I want to see how a new cheep card does.

I think it should play motercycle madness or need for speed too.

hi

About dvd playback quality, you what to stay with ATI. It far superior in the result vs the nvidia mark. You can have all info and the screen shot in denguru site i think. Or also, if you use any hdtv out from the card, for your secondary monitor, you can still be able to use a scaler, that will push up your line and get better quality. Just as a Faroudja do and a Centerstage cs-1, that impress me a lot !

I wish I could understand a word that you wrote?


"you what to stay with ATI" ?

"You can have all info and the screen shot in denguru site i think"?

Is that a web site that has reviewed some of the cards and chipsets?

I do think the AIT might be better but is was also 2x as much. The 6200A should be way better than what I have.

I would love it if some one with a PCI-E slot bought the X1300 card its cheep at $50.00 and should work great too.

IMO, with the HDMI/HDCP compliant cards on the market now for both AGP and PCI-E, no other cards should even be considered for HTPC applications. they start as low as 125.00, and are surely a better investment than spending 75.00 on something that can't output to 1920*1200.

the 6200A goes beyond 1920x1200

not on H.264 content it doesn't.

just to throw a curve ball here.

a used G4 Mac tower will playback dvd's beautifully.

$100 to $150 bucks.

FWIW, I've noted dropping-prices on the ATI 1950-Pro...their best AVIVO/HDCP/dual-dvi-i card. It isn't DirX10 compatible, but it will be awhile before I 'care'...

Well I have been using the 6200A for a few months now and it works fine and the scaling is good. Power DVD uses the hardware acceleration OK but won't use their own software "vivid" settings at the same time.( I like the vivid look)

I tried some HD samples but it was drop frame city even thought they say the card accelerates HD. It is a low end computer with a 1.7 gig AMD with and old XP install and a slow 20 gig IBM desk star HD. The drive may just be too slow. It's my kids machine (there 4 and 5) and there is more crap loaded on it than a 16 year old girl getting here 30th free screen saver.

I have managed to get power DVD and Theatertek to stop working but I don't want to wipe the kids machine right now, many of the game are out of print and hard to get working. It's hard to find games that fun and good for the kids.

I can say that I'm happy with the cheep card for playing 720 DVD I have seen no mpeg errors. Fast pans look good but there is still some softing. I can scale to full screen or any size with out fuzziness.

I have a cheep 1.6gig Intel machine ready to go but I still need to make a new lid for the PJ to put the MB in. I may move the card to the Intel machine to see how it does.

I want to do a few new PC's with the new Intel core duo chip but I can't decide who gets what. My 2 gig AMD Barton barely plays HD and is due for replacement. My wife never shuts he computer off and does more video work. I want to do a 24/7 4 channel video camera and HTPC so it would be nice if the CPU was the most efficient but I'm not going to let the new duel core run some dumb camera's.

The computer feeding chain. Where to start.

I'll be waiting a few months before starting to gather parts for my new PC. With the Quad core out, the price on the dual core's should drop some, maybe not a lot, but enough that I can afford them.

I found my buggy problem. Theatertek and Power DVD 7 were both crashing every 1/2 hour or so. I tried all kinds of things like CPU speed, voltage, mem timings, wait states with no luck.

But then the DVD drive got flakey and then just quit. I had to open it with a paper clip. Windows always hang with drive errors.

I did one more test with some HD samples and Power DVD and it played 100% perfect but the sound was choppy so I may bail the onboard sound and throw in a blaster or something. If that works then I will be able to play HD with this old clunker.


I looked up the chipset chart befor I bought the card and the 6200A does have H.264 Decode Acceleration for HD in fact it does almost all that a high end card will do in HD except Spatial-Temporal De-Interlacing ,Inverse Telecine and Bad Edit Correction.

Link.

http://www.nvidia.com/page/purevideo_support.html

Somewhere I saw that the "A" chip added some functions but I need to find them.

You can already get great dual cores at great prices. Pressler cores start at ~$90.00 (not great, but good and far more than you need for an HTPC), Opteron 165s go for ~$150.00(great proc with lots of overhead for OC'ing, mine outperforms FX60s on pretty much all benchmarks).

I got my new DVD drive in and installed it with an old SoundBlaster sound card and I still have the crashing problem after about ten minuets of DVD playback with power DVD.

I have sound in windows but it is gone in power DVD again. It is reporting the sound is Dolby digital 2.0

I may install the parts in a different machine with a fresh install to see if it works better.

rr

really it was a storage size issue as well. changing out discs for a regular 2 hour movie would suck, they could possibly have fit a 2 hour movie in the HD DIVX6 format I guess, but the quality would suffer a bit.

Incidentally, Newegg has HDMI HDCP enabled Geforce 7300 cards for about $80.00. That's pretty much the best card you can use for an HTPC now, unless you are running 1080 rez. For 720p though, it should be pretty killer.

I thought I was good at MS paint.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NQzQaJtyQo...hy%2Dnot%2Ehtml

Man that is awesome. I had to watch it a couple of times.

HOLY COW!!! Cool.

Unfreakingbelievable........I gotta show others this. I wonder how long it took him or her to do that.

It says IIRC 2 hours 30 minutes. It's printed on or near the video you unobservant goober you!!!

....I got's your goober, right heya buddeee....

My pig can take your penguin any day mister. Hmmm . . . he usually resorts to eye-gouging but pengie's got them goggles on. Need a different dirty trick.

Edit: And no horns allowed in the ring!!!!!

...hehe...bring it!! My DUCK with attitude eats bacon with his breakfast.

Ooooch!!! Duck. Right. I'm so ashamed. Sorry Sim. I'm an unobservant goober too.

If all you want is dvd playback go CHEAP AS POSSIBLE as basicly any video card can support dvd playback, though a slow cpu may have trouble.

Here's a $4.99 card

http://www.surpluscomputers.com/store/main...p;item=CRD10801

Does your MB not have onboard video? Most onboard video are fine for watching DVDs.

I have had a rule for the last ten years or so to not spend more than $100 for a video card or a CPU.

Well Intel just dropped the price of the low end core@ processor. $119

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16819115013

I think it time for some dual core for me!

1.8 Ghz? Can a core duo out perform a " normal" pentium that much?

I can tell you that my new laptop (Core 2 Duo 1.7GHz - T5500 chip) trounces all over my destop P4 3.2GHz chip... upto 50% faster on video renders... I was shocked at the speed... dual (multi) core processors is something that AMD's known for a while... Intel just came along and did it better... (ok, so there huge marketing machine has a lot to do with it... )

gs

yes, the core processers are MUCH better performing chip per watt/ghz.
The Pentium and NetBurst was a tech that just didn't do what Intel had hoped. (IMHO)
it was figured out originally out in the wild when tech sites were pinning a mobile processor that was based on similar tech to the core chips, and it outperformed the p4 at it's stock speeds. when they overclocked the lower ghz mobile processor, it 'trumped' any other processer out at the time. It was a HUGE eye-opener, and Intel followed up with Core.
Ricoks

(my 'very' simple explanation from my memory)

I bought a few goodies myself over at Fry's Electronics since hearing that AMD had dropped down their prices by half. Wasn't looking to spend to much and found an acceptable motherboard - MSI K9AGM2. Apparently MSI and ATI had gotten together and created a board that is one of it's kind. It has an intergrated HDMI with HDCP interface aside from it's dual core capability, 7.1 sound, dual VGA out...only 2 PCI's though.

BTW AV, thought you might like this art work but not done by MSPaint http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K_NQe57C-k

NetBurst was a bad idea for Intel. I only bought one new netburst chip and my AMD Barton core was much faster.

I love my old AMD Barton core chip I have made many a computer with that chip and my current machine is still a Barton core at 2 GHz.

The AMD Barton core should go in the books as on of the best cores ever made.

The 233MMX then the Celeron 300A at 500Mz and then the AMD Barton core at 2Ghz.

But the new Intel kills the AMD and over-clocks to 2.5 to 3ghz.

AMD does have a new chip with a 65nm fab process that is lower power and still clocks good to around 3ghz. Supper cheep too. $59.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16819103036

This is a really good part for that kind of money. A duel core chip that can go 2.5ghz for $59! and fairly low power usage. The retail part for $69 has the fan too.

The Intel will still beat it but not for $59

We don't turn off our computers during the day so power usage is a real cost and the Intel part draws almost half the power when the CPU is fully loaded over the AMD part.

Sim: Nice find on the art work. Some people have skils.

The integrated HDMI with HDCP may come in handy soon.