I have a very dis-organized incomplete PLOG, hence I am starting fresh.

I have purchased a

X2gen MG17R
Resolution: 1280x1024
Pixel Pitch: .264
Contrast Ratio: 750:1
Response Time: 8ms
Input Port: VGA
Price: 214.99 – 99.00 Rebate = $115.99 !!!
(purchased 7-20-2006 ...still waiting for rebate... its been 10 weeks)
(waited until 13 weeks and gave them a call, then emails...
got a response... they didnt have any of my paperwork...
I emailed them the scanned images of the paperwork that I had mailed...
They told me the rebate should be here within 3 weeks) ... we will see.
GOT THE REBATE!!! $99 came in the mail yesterday ... WOOT!! (11-21-06)



ViewSonic N6
Inputs: coaxial, composite, s-video, component, VGA
Output: VGA



Fresnels (or is it Fresnals??) from 3dlens
330 and 220



Standard Triplet from LumenLab

LL65K T15 Kit from LumenLab

Pro Reflector from LumenLab

Wiring Kit from LumenLab

Computer Fans ... Ebay

Power Supply ... from a friend

XL10 Lexan from Home Depot (sorry I forgot this earlier)

Lumber ... right now its just plywood that I already had. I built it HUGE to ensure that I had enough room to optimize the picture. Once I get it just how I like it, I will construct a better box that will fit into a coffee table that will be built at the same time.

Last weekend I built the box...



took apart the LCD panel



built the frames for the fresnels and panel



installed the fans

everything in the box




the panel within the box

many many screen shots that need to be improved...




a little better



flipped one of the fresnels... and got

A few questions...

Can one use windex or something of the sort to clean the fresnels, triplet, and panel ??

How do you know if the panel is oriented correctly? Which side of each fresnel is toward the lamp? Which toward the triplet?

How do I get a better projection with sharper corners?

... I have not yet installed the Pro Reflector
... I have not yet removed the Anti-Glare layer on the monitor ... still a little scared of screwing it up

Not sure about the cleaning, but the fresnels should have their "ridges" facing each other. The 220mm should be toward the lampside. The corners can be improved by adjusting the distance of the lamp to the first fresnel slightly. Also, check for bowing on your fresnels, and play with the distance between them and your panel.

I would probably install 5-10 more fans

Do not use Windex to clean the fresnels, as it can damage the acrylic. Check out this post for some tips on cleaning your fresnels properly (this post is a little old, so if someone has a newer post with easier/better instructions, they can probably point you in the right direction, but at least this one will get you started).

http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=331

As weldonjb stated, the grooves of the fresnels should face each other, and the 220mm fresnel should be the one closest to the lamp.

As far as getting a better image, the pro reflector will definitely help, and should be mounted about 1mm away from the center of the arc on your bulb. Also, a lot of people have found that they got a better image when their bulb was approximately 200mm away from their fresnel instead of 220mm, so you may want to try moving the bulb a bit and see if this helps.

I would start with these ideas and see if you notice some improvement before I would mess with the anti-glare removal, especially if you're hesitant and don't feel comfortable with this yet. Also, I'm no expert, but I don't think that removing your anti-glare will show a major improvement with your current dark corners; more than likely this is an issue with proper alignment that you need to fix first.

P.S. In the pictures of your design (particularly the second picture in your 3rd post), it looks like your bulb is in the back left corner of your box, and is not centered with your triplet. Is this just a wierd angle of the picture, or is this the way that it is installed; because if it is, that could definiltey explain your uneven corners in your image. The bulb needs to be centered with your fresnels, lcd and triplet.

I was wondering about that too. . . I'm glad someone else mentioned it

Did you install that many fans so that you would not have to use a heat shield? I would think that using 10 fans is going to result in A LOT of light leakage (speaking of which, it looks like your losing a lot of light around the outside of your fresnel and lcd frames, which could also explain your dark image, but that's just my opinion).

One other possibility. I've read that the FOV of the standard LL triplet is too small for a 17 inch lcd. Maybe someone with experience with 17 inch LCDs could comment.

320mm LL triplet will give dark edges with 17" LCD.. no way around this. This is not an issue with alignment, AG, etc.

Yes he is probably getting a lot of light leakage from the fan holes, but they're facing the floor so it shouldn't be a big issue.

Last, moving the bulb closer to the fresnel will increase vignetting. The center will be brighter, and the corners will also get brighter (unless you move it too close), but the brightness will be even more uneven. Moving the bulb away from the fresnel will increase light distribution over the projection, but decrease max brightness.

Thanks for all of the suggestions guys. (how to orient the fresnels, how to clean them, get the reflector installed, AG is still a maybe)

Yes the bulb is in the corner right now, but its mounted on a platform of wood... Ive been moving it around in an attempt to find the optimal place for it.

Is there another triplet that has a FAST throw, like standard LL, that also has sharp corners for a 17"? Since I will be placing this inside of a coffee table... I need the FAST throw. I dont want to have to put the coffee table at the back of the room. ... hence the Pro Triplet just will not do. ... anyone have any ideas?

Yes I have 10 fans... ebay has some seller that offers 10 fans for about $18. ... why not use them all?? They do push some air though! ... and I just might put some more in... just for you tameone lol.

Ill keep messing with it.

I was implying that the light leakage from the fan holes would result in less light getting to the triplet, which I thought could be part of your dim corner problem, but I did not originally pay attention to the fact that you're using the standard triplet with a 17" lcd. So Tameone is right, with that combination there is no way around it. I suppose you could try to only display in wide screen so that the corners of your monitor would not be used, or you could try to use Powerstrip to change the resolution of your monitor and make it the size of a 15" lcd.

any light escaping from the fan holes would not be light that would end up in the final projection anyway. This would all be off axis light hitting the bottom of the enclosure, not light being collimated by the fresnel.

Ok, so the final word is... it doesnt matter if I lose light to the fan holes... correct??

Also, why do people paint their boxes black? Wouldnt we want white? Black absorbs the light. I guess that we want to absorb it ???

People paint the insides of their projectors black to absorb light because you the only light you want coming out the lens is light that's been through the fresnels and LCD. That light contributes to the image, whereas light reflected off the inside walls of the box do not.

awesome, so black it will be...

this also confirms that light lost to my oh so many fans has no bearing on the brightness of my panel.

Again... anyone know of a triplet that has about a 320mm focal length that can display an image from a 17" panel well? sharp corners??

don't know of any..

the only problem with light escaping from the fan holes is added ambient light in the viewing room which will effect your eyes. Also, if any hits the projection screen, it will kill the image brightness.

yeah... not really a problem... maybe it looks that way now... but I have a dado already made that a thin piece of MDF. This will channel the air to the front and back. I also plan to add another dado to channel the air down another level. These channels will eliminate any light leaks.

I dont yet have a lid because again, this is just a mock setup to find the right placement. Ive been using a blanket and leaving a gap for the air to go out of.

CK,

If your thinking about changing your triplet here is an alternate site that sells triplets too. However, I don't know of anyone who has used one yet, so you might want to investigate further.

Also, the bigger the triplets diameter, see post #8, the more illumination you will get.

Cheers!

Fulcrum

I measured the standard triplet... and its only 4mm less than the ones posted at that site. Anyone know if that is enough?? Also, the focal length of those triplets are 300mm and 345mm. Howd does that affect the standard fresnels?? (Fresnel FL of 220mm and 317mm) Is the 345mm or 300mm better? The standard triplet has focal length of 320mm.

If I were to purchase the Pro Lens Triplet, then I can still use the 220mm fresnel with a 650mm from LL? Is 650 ideal for the pro lens triplet? Or is another FL better offered at 3dlens?

Thanks to all.

If you're concerned about getting a larger triplet to help with your 17" monitor and dim corner issues, I don't think buying another triplet that's only 4mm larger (I'm assuming you mean in diameter) will help you out very much. In regards to the focal lengths, I think your problem would possibly get worse with a 300mm triplet, and I still don't think you'd see much improvement between the standard triplet you have now and the 345mm triplet they offer (and the difference of focal length between the 317mm fresnel and the 345mm triplet probably wouldn't help with your brightness issues either).

If you're thinking of upgrading to the pro triplet, yes you can still use your 220mm fresnel (provided that it's large enough to cover your monitor), and I would go with the 650mm pro fresnel from LL.

If you're thinking of upgrading to the pro triplet, yes you can still use your 220mm fresnel (provided that it's large enough to cover your monitor), and I would go with the 650mm pro fresnel from LL.
[/quote]

So, would a better solution be getting a 15" 1280 x 800 ??



$99 15" 1280x800 600:1 8ms .297mm pixel pitch

How bad is that .297?

It would be better to buy the smaller panel... it would be brighter, and I could sell the 17" on the trading post perhaps. Suggestions?

Well, that certainly would be cheaper than purchasing the pro lens and a new fresnel, and the standard triplet should work ok with a 15.4" monitor. You may want to check out some other Plogs of people using that monitor first (if you haven't already) to make sure that you want to make that switch though; I believe GSX was going to use that monitor but was unhappy with the results, while others have reported good success with it.

If getting a HD image (720p anyways) with better lit corners for the cheapest price available is your main goal, then this monitor may be your best bet. And as you mentioned, you could always sell your 17" monitor you currently have, and perhaps make a little money in the process

P.S. If my memory serves me correctly, .297 pixel pitch is very average, and is not something you should be concerned about.

Forgive me if I am wrong but I did the following math to find out the dimensions of a...
17" 4:3 monitor and a 15.4" 16:9 monitor

17" 4:3

(4a)^2 + (3a)^2 = 17^2
(4a)^2 + (3a)^2 = 289
(4a)^2 + (3a)^2 = 289
16a^2 + 9a^2 = 289
25a^2 = 289
a^2 = 11.56
a = 3.4

13.6 x 10.2

-----------------------------------

15.4" 16:9

(16b)^2 + (9b)^2 = (15.4)^2
(16b)^2 + (9b)^2 = 237.16
256b^2 + 81b^2 = 237.16
337b^2 = 237.16
b^2 = 0.7037
b = 0.83889

13.42224 x 7.55001

They are both about the same width (~13.5")... Anyone know if this is within the standard triplet's capacity??

I just purchased...



Specification:
LCD Panel Size 15.4"
Pixel Pitch 0.297 x 0.297 mm
Maximum Resolution WXGA 1280 x 800
Number of Colors 16.7 M
Contrast Ratio 600:1
Brightness 220 cd/m2 ... who cares??
View Angle 130� Horizontal / 100� Vertical
Input Video Compatibility Analog (D-Sub)
Response Time 8 ms

I hear that there is an FFC issue?? or FCC??

Any suggestions?

Also, that 17" X2GEN I have up for sale. Name me a price and Ill let you know.
Ill put it up in the trading post if I dont receive any offers.



its specs are...

X2gen MG17R
Resolution: 1280x1024
Pixel Pitch: .264
Contrast Ratio: 750:1
Response Time: 8ms
Input Port: VGA

I have already taken it out of the enclosure. The AG is still on.

Its been a great monitor... just too large for the standard triplet. I used it for about a week before I took it apart. Its probably been on for a total of 15 hours.

A fast throw? I wasn't aware there was a difference in the "speed" of the throws...

The standard triplet will focus fine on the 15.4 LCD, the throw will be about the same as using a standard 17" LCD because they are almost the same with.

So the PJ will be infront of you or close to that.

I havent been on here in awhile...

I have rebuilt my projector box and hope to have it done soon. I am using the X2GEN 15.4" WS panel. I have not yet taken it out of the case it came in because my 17" panel was accidentally damaged beyond repair.

Pics to come.