For discussion of line doublers, video scalers and converters.

Moved: Originally posted by Tommy_Tenor:

I don't understand how you connect the lcd monitor to your entertainment system. It has a VGA port which could be connected to a PC, but I would want to connect a surround system with DVD/Tape combo. In your documentation you talk about a TV box from Kworld. I looked at these but don't really understand. What options would I have to connect into the VGA port of the typical lcd monitor?

Tommy, The Kworld TVBox and others take the composite signal (or S-video) from your DVD player etc and convert them up to the resolution of your LCD monitor. Your monitor may have a resolution of 1024x768 pixels while standard TV resolution is 320x240 (equiv). The output from most home video gear is composite (RCA). The resolution is low and must be up-scanned to the higher resolution of your projector, this is where the 'TV Box' comes in. The TV Box will accept composite signals from your DVD player etc and scale them up to your projector resolution, while providing the VGA output that you need. Since DVD's are encoded at 720x540 pix resolution, the composite output of your DVD player is actually much lower than the DVD is encoded, so for best results you should consider using a computer to play the DVDs since the computer can output a much higher resolution. If not you can consider getting a DVD player that has native VGA output such as: http://www.220-electronics.com/dvd/internationalsilver.htm

Having to convert up is not a limitation of you projector but just the opposite; your projector is a high resolution device and most consumer DVD gear is made for the lowly television.

If your DVD player has component output you can convert to VGA...I'll try to post some more on this soon.

Here are some TV Boxes to check out:

http://www.outpost.com/product/3674305
http://www.avtoolbox.com/avt-3331t.htm
http://www.avtoolbox.com/tv-4000.htm
http://bizrate.lycos.com/marketplace/produ...d--6259684.html

found this today, looks just like the kWorld TvBox

http://www.htcnetstore.com/xptvlcdtvbox.html

has the s-video inputs so it should be a good solution for those of you with s-video output dvd players.

How about one of THESE...

Basically the same as those listed above, but at a cool 'buy it now' price under $50

It's cheaper, but it has a low refresh rate and scan rate.

50Hz mode resolution:720X576, 60Hz mode resolution:720X480

The faster the refresh the less flicker...60 hz you can def see, 75 hz you can't.

The target upscale rez is 1024x768
The target refresh is 75hz

Kworld makes a suitable scan converter for about $60.

http://www.audioexchange.com/kworexlcdtvb.html

Goes on sale from time to time and also on ebay...

I haven't reviewed this item..

looking at the specs for the Kworld converter it also only supports 60Hz at the 1024x768 resolution. though I do see that it does look like a much better unit.

Oops, sorry, the one I was looking at was PC-TV, not TV-PC.. hrmmm..

Says 75hz at XGA:

"The Normal External TV BOX output mode can be changed from 640*480, 800*600 to 1024*768 (75Hz)"

From the link:

http://www.audioexchange.com/kworexlcdtvb.html

Yeah, I saw that after I had posted.. realized I was looking at the wrong box.

Anyway, an interesting aside.. My PC monitor is running at 60Hz, and I've never noticed a flicker.. then again the resolution is also 1280x1024

At 60hz, it's especially noticeable if you chew lifesavers...seriously. In certain viewing circumstances you can see it, not a big deal really but it can be noticed.

Well.... who chews lifesavers anyway?!

That last XGA box looks good....wish it worked with PAL.

I am from the UK and the best I could find was this:

http://www.scancom.ltd.uk/products/cypress/presenter_1.htm

It works out to around $240.

We must be able to get a good tuner/doubler cheaper here? Can anyone help?

I was told by the makers of XGA Theatre box that the link I have listed is their PAL version.

Upon futher reading, the model I just listed does not seem to even have a tv tuner???
How can they justify the cost???

Pez, this one supports PAL

http://www.outpost.com/product/3674305

I stickied your UK thread.

Great link brainchild!
And they have a UK delivery option!

Just need to find out if it does XGA at 75Hz.

Their description states:"from 60-75Hz".

I will email them and post their reply here.

I found this and was wonderin if it'd do the trick.....

http://the-console-corner.com/universal_vga_box.htm

thanks

That doesn't look half bad. I wish they were a little more elaborate with the specs. If you get it let us know.

Here is a link to a few video scalers in the UK:
http://www.scancom.ltd.uk/up_converters.htm

I have heard some good stuff about the TV-4000 XGA Theater from users in the US. Which of these will produce the best TV tuning?

Quoted from: http://www.game-bb.com/xbox/Pelican_Univer...Box_324022.html

Date: 05 Dec 2003 08:45:36
From: Rock Schroeter
Subject: Pelican Universal VGA Box

Just picked this up at Best Buy for $49.99. The sound is great but the
picture is terrible, like watching an old tv without an antennae. Are there
certain settings I have to mess with on the monitor?



====

Try something like this it has better specs: http://system-modz.com/shop/product_info.p...products_id=187
"This product is recommended for users of LCD monitors, as it supports higher output resolutions."
Specs:
Video-In (RCA) and S-Video in Automatic formats: 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x1024, 1600x1200 Double scan conversion, from 15.75KHz to 48.63KHz. Adaptive non-linear noise reduction 3D motion adaptive de-interlacing Non-linear programmable 16:9 expansion Supports PAL and NTSC

Pez: personally I'm using a PC running snapstream's "Beyond TV3" and a hauppauge PVR-250 (with Hardware Mpeg-2 compression)

The quality of the TV I get from it is phenomenal, not even on a very high quality setting. MUCH better than just plugging the cable straight into the TV even!

oog,
Thanks for the help! But again, the price in the UK is ridiculous for those two items: The hauppauge PVR-250 alone costs the equivalent of $180, over here.

Maybe in the future, I shall consider it though.

The link brainchild provided for me is the one I'm looking to purchase, unless something better pops up soon:

http://www.outpost.com/product/3674305

I emailed them for shipping costs and they said it would only be $26!

So, that will be $116 in total for an external line doubler/ tv tuner, including shipping to the UK.

Sounds like a good deal to me, unless someone knows better?

What if someone in the US bought it and sent it to you? Would things be cheaper then?

If it is a PAL model, and cheaper than $116 in total, then that would be great! That is actually why I am going to have to get a ballast from the US. (Hopefully you will get a multiple lot )

That's what I'm hoping too!

Ok, tell me exactly what you are looking for in a converter, and I'll see what I can find..

Do you need one with a tv tuner? It would probably be a lot cheaper to use a VCR or something as a tuner.. can probably find an old (working) vcr laying around somewhere right?

Lol...I have no VCR!

I need a tuner because I have no tv in my room.

As long as it is a PAL unit that does scaling at 75Hz XGA, I'm happy.

Compgeeks.com has this converter "V-Stream Xpert 1280x1024 LCD TV Box w/Remote" on sale right now for $74.99.
Here's the link: CLICK HERE

This is the lowest price I've found so far.
-Batlin

PLEASE HELP!
I got one of the KWORLD TV box's today. After playing around with it a bit I found that using the svideo or compostie input yeilds low quality video. Hooking up a DVD player using svideo gives a worse than VHS quality picture with diaginol lines and ghosting. Using it as a TV tuner yeilds fantastic quality, but thats about the only use I can see for this tv-box.
Can anyone help me convert component video output to VGA 15 pin? I can pass a VGA signal through this tv-box yeilding great quality. I would rather not buy another DVD player just to get VGA output. There must be a way to get high quality DVD video into this monitor short of another dvd player or using a computer.
Anyone?
I am using the 1512 LCD.

FYI lowest price found on the KWORLD style tv box is about $65 at http://www.AxionTech.com

Joe, sorry to hear about the s-vid issue, composite is always going to look bad but you should be able to get a decent picture with s-vid. There are adapters such as:

http://jc.com.au/~jaswebpics/gadgets/componentvga.html


But I don't know how this would work with your monitor, ie: what establishes the monitor's res or if the monitor just defaults to it's native. Sorry to say I haven't done a lot of research along these lines.

You also might find some useful info in these docs:

http://www.hut.fi/Misc/Electronics/faq/vga...nterfacing.html
http://www.hut.fi/Misc/Electronics/circuits/vga2tv/

Are there any boxes that will accept the RGB (red green blue) componet outputs of my DVD player? I have an inexpensive Daewoo TV that accepts the RGB from the DVD player and the picture is amazing, waaaay better than S-video. I was just hoping there was some way I could utilize them. Thanks.

Andy

Joe, F150, I found this box today, it might do what you want. The resolution is VGA though.

http://www.avtoolbox.com/avt-3343.htm

And this will definitely do what you want, it also has advanced features like 3:2 pulldown. Bad part is it costs $250.

http://www.viewsonic.com/products/video_box_nextvisionn6.htm

Yep, the Nextvision N6 from Viewsonic is the one to get. Bonus is that you can find pricing starting at about $170. The KWorld box just doesn't carry or output nearly the quality signal needed to give true HD video. The KWORLD works great to send out is ouw tv tuner signal but s-video and composite are very low quality.
Thanks for doing the research.

Excellent. Would you post a review on both boxes in the new 'Review' forum? I've heard about several different TV Boxes having issues with the s-vid. Some people say it works great, others say it's jittery, has scan lines etc. I wonder if the box is actually defective rather than the capabilty is not there?

Thanks.

Brainchild,
Great idea to post a review on both boxes. Would make it easer to see which one to buy. As it sounds right now the Nextvision N6 sounds like the one to get. Some links would be nice that we can go to for great prices.

Saw a web site that has HDTV boxes but not much info on them. And the cost $300 +.

Keep us updated.

Kworld and Nextvision N6 update:
I am not sure what my problem was initially, but I now have a much improved picture with the Kworld box using s-video. The picture is now very watchable (impressive to most), although watching on a HD monitor reveals the lack of quality. I am using a different DVD player then I intially did, but I assume the s-video output would be similar or same as the DVD players are very similar models. I have noticed that the positioning of cords and equiptment has had an effect on the quality. Maybe my cables aren't high enough quality? The picture is now very watchable, although watching on a HD monitor reveals the lack of quality. The difference between watching from a computer source over VGA cable is very noticeable. I wonder how the component video connection through the Nextvision N6 is going to look? After seeing the quality hooking the monitor up to a computer I don't think I will be satisfied until I get that quality. Am I being rediculous? If it comes down to it I guess I will either buy a DVD player with VGA output or have a dedicated entertainment/theater computer running. I will keep you posted once I receive the Nextvision N6.
I picked up the Nextvision N6 for $170 ($179 shipped) from www.pagecomputers.com

Yes bad cables...try monster cables for s-vid. VGA rules next to DVI. That's the problem with high resolution devices, you see the inferior elements of the TV standard.

I am also using Beyond TV with the PVR-250. I love it. I am not sure how I watched TV before I got it. It is set up to record all kinds of shows for me, then I can play them back when ever I want. Just like Tivo without the monthly fees.

Anyway back to the main topic. I have read a lot about convertors and I think the TV-4000 is a decent one for me. But it is about $130. It would depend on what people wanted it for. I wanted to get it because my projection panel only does 640X480 at 60hz. Also TV-4000 can defeat macrovision from my DVD player. This is something that newer panels may be able to handle, but the old technology of a projection panel just cannot handle. I am not sure if this is an issue with the 15 inch monitors being used, but something to think about.

Now that I am headed down the route of a 7 inch LCD, I may not need a convertor this expensive. Anyone know if the newer LCD's have problems being connected directly to a DVD player and not through a PC?

Corbett

Does anybody know what "Double scan conversion, from 15.75KHz to 48.63KHz" means? I am looking for something more like this because I don't need a tuner. Also, does anybody know what the refresh rate is for this product?

I was thinking to install a XGA converter like the TV-4010 inside the projector box, what do you think about this unit (is that a good one or should I go for a different one) and does it sound as a fasible idea?

I am planning to put together a dedicated Micro ATX PC station (too bad I can;t do this with my mac ) to be used for playback of DVD, PC Video (files and streams) and miniDV plus adding a VCR to install the whole thing close to the projector therefore running cables between the two (to reach the internal XGA converted is not an issue as all the hardware will be next to each other.

PS: would be interesting if we could come up with a design of a projector with integrated PC (witht flash card reader and DVD) and VCR deck, so we could display virtually anything... to play miniDV the aux in of the VCR could be used. Man that would be a dream box, but unfortunately would be a really BIG one


thanks guys!

I just got this box:

https://www.mypccity.com/proddetail.asp?linenumber=1150

I'm still testing it but it has a fantastic picture so far. Only thing it lacks is component video. If you need component try this:

http://www.pagecomputers.com/cgi-bin/page/index2.html

It has excellent reviews as well.

For those that have a 15" LCD HDTV panel:

Convert any video source into the High Definition Resolutions your HDTV was designed to display
Integrated Audio/Video Switching
CinemaView™ Video Scan Conversion Technology
High-definition component video output
Advanced frame rate conversion
Image enhancement
Picture enhancement
Advanced format conversion
Picture-in-picture modes

What is the HDTV UpConverter designed to do?
The main purpose of the UpConverter is to re-format video signals to HDTV resolutions and process the video to present the best quality from the source material as possible. The HDTV UpConverter Up Converts video signals to match the High Resolutions your HDTV was designed to display. The HDTV UpConverter utilizes an advanced video processing engine with CinemaView™ scan conversion technology to enhance video quality for today’s HDTV compatible displays.

Does the UpConverter turn my video signals into HDTV?
The HDTV UpConverter accepts video signals and up scales the signal to HDTV Resolutions such as 720p or 1080i that HDTV’s were designed to display. The UpConverter actually adds as many as six times more pixels to normal video signals without adding artifacts. This is not the same as displaying HDTV originated content. Only content that was created with HDTV cameras at HDTV resolutions is true HDTV. The HDTV UpConverter enhances the resolution and image quality of a variety of video sources and formats the video and aspect ratio (16:9 vs 4:3) to match the capabilities of your HDTV display to provide clear, sharp images on your HDTV.

What type of video device can I connect to the HDTV UpConverter?
The HDTV UpConverter accepts video signals from video sources such as your VCR, DVD Player, Game Console, Camcorder, Cable TV, Digital Cable, Satellite TV, HDTV via Satellite, HDTV via Digital Cable and HDTV signals via a terrestrial HDTV tuner device…and so on.

How many video inputs and outputs does the UpConverter have?
The HDTV UpConverter has:
- 3 RCA Video inputs
- 3 S-Video inputs
- 3 Component video inputs (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i)
- 1 Cable Ready TV tuner (analog)
- 1 HD Component Video output




Link

Pretty cool Rorshach, but pricey.

I've had another thought that I would like some input on. When I was looking at all the conversion boxes that have been posted here I have also been seeing some PC based solutions on those same websights. But I don't really see what I want.

It sounds like the best resolution from a DVD would be to play it from my PC, which is OK. But I don't have a decent sound card and speakers for the PC. So I think I would need to install a sound card that could be run out to a set of surround sound speakers? Anyone have a source for a good set up like this?

So with my PC and DVD's taken care of, I want to plan for my other things. I would like to be able to display TV, video games, and even hook up a VCR to watch all those tapes we bought awhle ago. But I would also want to get the sound over those speakers that I talked about earlier. It doesn't seem like I can do that if I have a conversion box after the PC. I would get pictures but not sound. I have seen some graphics cards that have TV tuners built in and some additional video/audio in. But I just don't see what I think is right. Any thoughts on this?

I may be making this harder than it is, but I just don't get how to pull all of the video and audio that I want together.

Thanks for any help.

Cool tutorial on Video Signal technologies.

http://www.cybertheater.com/Tech_Archive/Y...omp_format.html

...The second link goes to the pagecomputers index with featured items, does not show a converter box, which brand is the one you wanted to show with the 2nd link?

thanks

Sorry, N6

http://www.pagecomputers.com/cgi-bin/page/B0567169.html

Tommy,

I'm working on a surround sound decoder box, when finished it would work with a standard computer soundcard. The only requirement would be that the soundcard has 'Line-Out' and you would need a separate amplifier for the rear channels, and possibly one for the center channel.

Alternatively there are soundcards available these days that have integrated surround sound decoding. I'm fairly sure Creative makes one that's not too pricey.

Also, FYI: I run all my video through a computer running Snapstream's Beyond TV All I'm using is the soundcard that's built into the motherboard and I get great results. Only drawback is no surround sound, but I've never had surround sound, so I don't miss it (yet)

oog,
Beyond TV looks really great, I didn't know there was such a thing. I'd be real interested in the sound decoder box when you get it figured out. Thanks for the info on the sound card, I've started to see them around.

I would suggest for the best quality in EVERYTHING when it comes to inputs, you should go with an HTPC with a Radeon 9800 All In Wonder Graphics Card or The 9800XT... I have them both and realize what a great picture the composite S-video and coax is on them it absolutly blew my mind away when i hooked my xbox up to it yesterday i cant believe my eye's!! all i have to say is wow! ***** 10/10

Cheers
Chris


PS If you guys want i can post result pictures and pictures of all the equipment.

Yes, please post some pics. "A picture is worth a thousand words." Thanks.

These are screen shots of the component video Ati's video "still capture" tool...

There original quality is saved in Bitmap but i had to convert to jpeg for size limits so if the pictures is a picture distorted that is why..