If I buy an N6 and a Denon AVR-3805 reciever will there be any problems when I hook up say a GC, Sat, and DVD to the reciever which then connects to the N6 which then connects to the Projector. Is this a possible config?

Hi, I was just wondering about building an HTPC. I was looking at a lot of video cards and none of them have component video in but only s-video. Some of you have stressed that running your projector through an HTPC will get you way better quality. So running it in through s-video on your video card will get better picture than say running components in through an avermedia tv box. Thanks

No problem at all. I think the Denon sends all signals out the component ports, so that will be a one hookup connection. Try BlueJeansCable for some nice quality cables at good prices.


The only pci card under $10k to accept component inputs to be processed by the computer is the PDI Deluxe, and it is only able to accept 480i standard resolutions, so it would not be able to accept a XBOX game output at 480p, 720p or 1080i. But for standard resolutions nothing under $5k can touch a HTPC.


By lightyears. Video cards with a S-Video inputs are known to be horrible, so instead look for a separate input card. Stay far away from the AIW's they are the worse.
A N6 would be a better option than the Avermedia as it can accept high definition and progressive signals.

Hope this helps.


peace

There is another component input option for up to 1080 for about $500-600 for a card pair off ebay, although I can't remember the brand. If anyone cares I will figure it out. You must use both mother and daughter cards to get 1080. One card gets 480 or 720. You also get DVI, DVI-I, and D-SUB 15 input.

It's most likely the Holo3D II, that is an expensive route though for most here.
I never mentioned it because it is mostly a failed product and there hasn't been any product support for it for about a year now. I thought about using one untill I visited the Immersive forums to find about all the problems the product has. Sad because it was to be the ultimate HTPC addition.

It was never ment with the daughter card to be able to input hidef for processing by the computer but instead has a Faroudja Fli2300 scaler onboard that would just process the signal itself and send it out bypassing the computer and when it was introduced it was unbelievable that a Faroudja processor was priced under $3k let alone to be used in a computer.

Current PCI bandwidth is to low to pass the full bandwidth of uncompressed highdef signals, the new PCI-Express will change that, as it can do it.
Hopefully in a few more years this will be possible with a computer but Hollywood needs to stop thinking everybody is a theif for it to shift in that direction.
Keeping fingers crossed.


peace

Whats up members I'm a newbie here and I'm working on my projecter the question I have is if I use just a 15" moniter with a TV box would I need a PC, and I would like to be able to send it signals from my DVD,cabel,video consoles,ect.

RaginRudolph

That is exactly what they are for. Here in Australia the best one available here is the Aver TVBox 9. Apparantly in the States most are using the N6. The TV Box 9 has RF, AV, VGA, Component, SVideo in and AV and VGA out and is all that I need and gives excellent results with the projector.

Thanks Bazz I'll start looking for one online

Okay, I know it has been talked about before, but which one is best-- the TVBox 9 or the N6. THese were reviewed some time ago but more opinions and testing has happened since then so should be able to better comment on this. Are there any new contenders in the below $200 range?

Although I haven't done any personal comparisons, I think the concensus is that the TVBox9 has better picture quality, but the N6 accepts progressive and Hi-Def input signals, which the TVBox9 won't.

I'm very pleased with the N6 for the price, and there's no way in the world I'd give up progressive input or the ability to run HD signals.

sorry i haven't read all the posts, but has anyone thought about the VD-Z3. i use it to play my xbox at 480p on my 21" crt.

VD-Z3

i already have one so if this could be used then i would not have to get a N6

Yes you will still need a N6 as the VD-Z3 is not a scaler, it is a transcoder. Your lcd needs to be run in it's native resolution.
Here is a link showing what will happen when a non native rez is sent to a lcd: Digital Display Basics


peace

Er, reading the specs and reviews, it doesn't say it DOESN"T scale. In fact it specifically references running 720p and 1080i games as well as standard progressive scan DVD players on a PC monitor....

Are you SURE it wouldn't work? Price is right...

Alfisti,
I use a VD-Z3 in my system. To be able to make my Samsung 710T happy I have to feed the VDIGI with a 720P signal. It will give me a 1280 X 1024 format required by my monitor. The VDIGI will not trancode your input signal. What it does is strippes the sync from thre Y channel, separates the three colors (RGB) and regenerates horizontal and vertical sync as required by VGA monitors.
If you want to use the VDIGI at 720P resolution youwill have to get a DVD player with an upscaler and component output. I am using an LG player and in the US it is available as a Zenith DVB 318. My second source is an HD satellite receiver, also running at 720P resolution.
Sen me an e-mail if you need more information. I spent months on trying to figure out a usable system.

VD-Z3 Component -> VGA Transcoder It is this and nothing more. Read at the top of this page.


The Vidigi does not scale it is a transcoder. It takes any component signal (any resolution) and transcodes the horizontal and vertical timings and colorspaces made for a consumer television set and changes them to a computer monitors horizontal and vertical timings and colorspaces. They are not the same thing.

They make these for a reason.


peace

Hmm. Well since I've got an xbox with the HD kit and the DVD kit, anyone know if I can make this work with my 15" 1024x768 projector?

i.e. can I lock the xbox into a resolution (both for game playing and DVD playing) that will allow me display it on my 1024x768 projector (based on the 15" LG monitor)?

Thanks

I heard/read NO. But let me know if you hear different. I am trying to use an xbox too.

I heard that I can make a SYNC-ON-GREEN cable to get this all to work.
Maybe.

Has anyone looked at this as an alternative to the N6?HERE

"This converter takes standard RCA or Svideo input from your DVD player, cable box, playstation2, etc. and up converts it to a high resolution VGA complient signal for use with PC monitors and lcd panels!"

That blows chunks! This does not have component inputs therefore you can only feed it a 480i signal. Garbage in, garbage out.

Here is a list of monitors that support Sync on green.

http://playstation2-linux.com/sog.php

If you have a Sync on green monitor you can hook up your Xbox to your VGA monitor by using a component->vga cable. You may need mod chip with a VGA enabled bios for it to work properly though.

the x2vga+ plugged into an NTSC XBOX will give high def (480p) on the BENQ 567 V2, tried it last night and it works perfectly. No scaling or atrifacting problems at all. Haven't tried 720 or 1080 yet., but 480p is miles ahead of scart/svideo.

This is confusing as hell. One person says that 480i sucks, while another says it is great.

Look, a damn TV set is 400 x 300 (around that, but not exactly). VGA is 640x480, SVGA is 800x600, and XVGA (which is the same as HDTV??) is around 1100 x 1000.

Correct or not???

If cheap hardware can just double the pixels displayed, then you are effectively giving it the same resolution. You would be hard pressed to find a DVD that is created that has much better resolution display capabilities than 400x300.

Am I mostly right? or am I way off? Does anyone really understand the bottom line on the resolution issues?

**********

Attemping to build a Linux (Mepis-Debian version) HTPC with no keyboard, no Mouse, and with WIFI.

A fairly good explanation of the HDTV issue can be found here http://www.rpsoft2000.com/information/hdtv.htm

The BENQ 567 (557) v2 monitor (and most other 15” monitors used in this project) has a native resolution of 1024x768 (XGA) which can accommodate 480p resolution (720 x 480), however whether it can input 720p (1280 x 720) is an issue I’m not totally sure of.

If it doesn’t, u could use a converter to downscale 720p (and 1080i) to XGA resolution, which would give quality above that of 480p, but a little less than 720P.

NOT correct

XGA is 1024x768 (not XVGA)

How can you use the HDTV UpConverter (HDUP-1500) that Rorshach mentioned on page 3 if it does not have VGA?

I've never seen anyone say that 480i is great. Interlacing is one of the biggest evils known to man.

480i only has half the resolution that 480p has and the deinterlacing, especially in frames with fast action, makes the image blurry. A regular TV is 640x480 interlaced, which is really 640x240 at any one time because it is interlaced.

Dvd's are encoded at 720x480, NOT 400x300. With a DVD, all the original progressive frames are there and are easily put back together through 3:2 pulldown to output the original film at 24fps.

Screw linux. I don't know why anyone would want to build a HTPC with linux. Can't use FFDSHOW, SageTV, Beyond TV, or dscaler.

With one of these: VD-Z3 Component -> VGA Transcoder
Everything into the HDUP-1500-II and then out the component outputs into the VDigi then to the monitor via a VGA cable. This IMO would be better than a N6 because it has a Faroudja processor in it, the best in the biz.

edit: Incase you did not notice there is a updated version to what Rorshach posted. It is the HDUP-1500-II

peace

I know, and the Linux box maybe is a dead end.

Still I like the idea of the MYTH TV application with an HTPC. I also like the MOVIX application.

SIMJEDI - that setup is about $260 complete. pretty expensive.

Looks like the community here is polerizing into three groups.

1) best solution under $100. Generic converter?? Image sucks but it is better than nothing.

2) best solution under $200. Seems to be the N6.

3) Best solution under $300. HTPC or the SIMJEDI setup.

Kworld Xpert TV LCD TV BOX Retail ***Free 2nd Day**

FYI for those who would be satisfied with s-video or composit input, this appers to be a great deal...I just tracked mine, it will be there when I get home tonight.
I'll post a review of the company and service here after I check it out.
Hard to beat Free 2nd Day by FEDEX.

2/14/005: Checked out great, beter results than expected.

Can anyone tell me if there's any difference in picture quality between 480i (with tvbox 9?) and 480p (with n6)? Is there any actual difference in picture because the tvbox has the good ole upscaler. Any feedback at all will help a ton. Can you really tell between a 480i scaled image and a 480p image??

Thanks

When you run a 480p signal into a N6 the DVD player is the one doing the deinterlacing not the N6. It all depends which one has the better deinterlacer that will give the better picture.
Yes there is a noticable gap between a 480i and a 480p image. Here is a site discussing the differances of what a good deinterlacer will get you: Secrets of Home Theater


peace

I know the difference, but what I want to know is this: Does the tvbox 9 (480i only) produce a better picture than an N6 (480p and above). Because I think the tvbox has hardware that creates a simulated p-scan image.

Brain? Any thoughts?

I posted this question elsewhere but didn't seem to spark much interest, and didn't get all of my question answered. Ok so here is the deal, I saw these

Starting @ $270 for the 17" Samsung LCD TV:
http://www.realdt.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=25_27


today in the trading post and I am verrrrry tempted to buy the 17"version. But I am wondering what are the trade-offs other than the obvious lack of DVI input - and therefore the ability to keep a completely digital signal from source to screen? I have the pro kit and am planning on making a vertical design and this is the last part I need. So in summary here are my questions:

1.) Will the innerds of this system 'up scale' the S-Video inputs to a good level w/o artifacts? I know nothing about these, but often see people here opting for the expensive ~$170 N6 option with their monitors and I wonder why, when these are available?

2.) I am planning on using an X-Box, minimal TV, mostly dvd's and if necessary they could be played through a computer into the 15-pin VGA port on the monitor. Is there much difference between using a prog scan DVD player w/ an SVideo cable and using an analog VGA signal from a computer?

3.) If this is a big trade off, does anybody know a place where we could get a similar price on an LCD-TV unit with a DVI interface?

thanks for all your input

~Tov

I have been promising to post some pics of HTPC images compared to DVD output through N6 (although I screwed that part up because I chose an unburned hard disk movie)
here is the post start:
http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s...=79&#entry53017

IMO, interlacing is among the greatest evils. I believe that it scales, but it only acts as a line doubler. Line doublers are cheap while scalers are not. In addtion, the N6 has component inputs through which you can input 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i. S-video will can only use 480i. Screw s-video!!!

There is a huge difference between feeding s-video that is 480i to the projector and a progressive 480p signal coming from a computer that is upscaled to the appropriate resolution.

A "progressive scan" dvd player is not really progressive scan unless it outputs 480p with component/DVI/VGA/RGB output. S-video progressive scan players are an absolute joke.

There isn't really much of a difference between DVI and VGA. In addition, VGA is much more flexible. You can always use a device like a N6 to connect to a vga port, but I know of no scaler/doubler that is affordable that will output a DVI signal.

Is there any _advantage_ to getting an N6 versus a HTPC? I already have a GeForce FX 5600 with video input. Is there something the N6 does that a computer will not? I know of the comparisons that jo did, but I could not really see the difference enough (especially since everyone says that pictures never do it justice).

There are some big advantages of using an N6 over a HTPC:

1) Ease of use. Can handle multiple sources with relative ease. You don't have to mess around with the PC whenever you want to change sources.

2) Remote capability (a real piece of crap remote, but at least you can program a learning remote as a substitute). This is something that's pretty tough with basic HTPC.

3) The ability to handle component inputs. Want to play your game console in progressive scan or HD? Forget it with a HTPC. Want to watch HDTV? Gotta buy yet another add-in card for your PC. With the N6, you plug it in and watch.

The N6 is a pretty dang good scaler for the price. No, it's never gonna match the DVD playback capability of a HTPC, but for most everything else, it's good. In fact, I have a HTPC and I am usually willing to accept the slightly softer picture from DVDs through my N6 so I don't have to mess around with my HTPC. But in my mind, the absolute best combo for top quality would be a HTPC for DVDs and an N6 for everything else.

Which type of sources do you mean? Something like SVideo Versus RCA?


Ooops... I forgot to mention that I already have an ATI Remote Wonder.


Components as in YbCr or whatever?

In my case:

DVDs, 4 different consoles, Laserdiscs, HTPC, satellite TV, HDTV, occasional VHS video. This collection uses about every possible type of connection from composite to component and VGA. I'd hate to have to mess around with a HTPC every time I wanted to change to a different source.

And yes, that's the component video I'm talking about.

I see. The problem is that I have sunk so much money into my PJ already (and some of the parts _still_ are not in) that I can't seem to justify $160 for an N6 right now. Do you know of anywhere I can get it cheaper?

Will 15 inch monitors support 720p. If they do, it is my understanding that copyrights, or whatever, on most DVD's prevent them from being upscaled to anything higher than 480p when using a DVD player. Hopefully, I am wrong on this but I remember something from a previous thread on this. If this is correct, why would anyone need an upscaler that can do more than this?

I'm watching "Alias" in 720p right at the moment on my 15 incher. It's not full resolution, but miles better than 480i/p.

But even the ability to do component inputs at 480p is something that a HTPC can't do without great expense. Once you see an Xbox or PS2 game in 480p, it's hard to go back to interlaced.

http://www.vdigi.com/index.php?option=cont...id=67&Itemid=28

What about this. It has received good reviews.

Thats what I would like to know a comparson N6 , N5 is the N5 an less expensive N6. The X2VGA and VD-Z3 would these work on some monitors 15" or 17" I am starting to think about HTPC for DVD and PC games instead of XBOX. Thanks

The VD-Z3 and the X2VGA, I believe, are only transponders and do not upscale. They will take whatever feed, 720p/480p/480i or whatever, clean it up a little and send it through a vga feed. They do not do any upscaling or at least that's what I understand. These may be the way to go if are satisfied with 480p output on progressive DVD players. In fact, I am not sure if the way the DVD's are encoded that they can be upscaled more than 480p anyway. I remember reading this in a forum way back. The only way to get around this and be able to upscale the image of a DVD is by making a recording of it and upscale the recording. I may be totally off base here but I remember this from previous readings.

The N6 or other upscalers would benefit if you plan on playing a great deal of games and wish to deinterlace or wish to upscale satellite or tv signals. However, with the poor initial signals from most tv and local satellite channels the image will still be much poorer when compared to a DVD signal output in 480p or even 480i.

Alright. The Tvbox 9 supports 480i inputs, but also states it has progressive scan output. It must upscale the image. right? But, how's the picture quality? Brain!!! Please help!! The N6 supports 480p input. Better picture?? Let us know!!

[QUOTE]

I was just wondering if this upscaler with a x2vga transcoder would be the best mid-range solution. This upscaler is being sold for around 200 and the x2vga is around 50-75. This would be somewhere around $100 more than an n6. I wouldn't mind spending the x-tra money for it if it produces great quality images. A person could buy the x2vga for starters and then add this upscaler later.

Forget about that comment about not being able to upscale greater than 480p. I remember now this problem had to do with upscaling via digital with a dvd player. Component-- no problem.

Would still like to know about the above question on the mid-range equipment listed. Would it be better than the N6?

In one word, Faroudja.


peace

Thanks simjedi for the sage advice. I'm seriously considering it. My only thing is that this was not made for computer lcd monitors specifically, so we must buy a transcoder in order for it to work with our computer lcd's. What exactly does the transcoder do and could it possibly be the weak link or bottleneck in the setup? I am also working with XGA resolution so what can I expect from the 720p output. Since 720 P is HDTV will it not be broadcast in 16x9 format and further reduce my 768 horizontal. Also what will it do about pressing the 1280 into 1080 vertical. I guess what I really want to know is if I can expect much much better than 480p with this setup or the 586p the n6 outputs. Sorry for the questions, but I've followed many of your posts and you seem to be the true guru on these matters.