As you know I was trying to get more ansi-lumens from ALLY PTV01B. Today I tried to buy an OSRAM Powerball HCI-TS 150/942, however I couldn't find it, and bought Philips CDM-TD 150W/942 Rx7s. (Which is Elken 2004's bulb. You can see his topic in DIY Video Projector Design section.)

Anyway, I've inserted the bulb into ALLY's sexy socket, and shocked with results ! With this lamp, picture was 'significantly' brighter than default bulb, but its color temp. was kind of lower (~4000K due to overdrive, default bulb's color temp. was like ~5000K).

So, if you buy this bulb, you will get a little bit yellowish whites, however you will get '30-40% more ansi-lumens' (I don't have a luxmeter, I'm just assuming). Also with this bulb, colors and dark scenes are way better than default bulb. Especially reds and blues are amazingly well. Btw, this bulb runs cooler than default bulb too. Only disadvantage with this bulb is; slower starting session, and a little bit lower color temp.I think, now everyone can buy ALLY PTV01B or Lumenlab's Projector without any doubt !

In the pictures, screen resolution of projected screen was; 1280x960 pixels (native 800x480). Photos taken with Canon S2 (5MP - auto mode), and cropped with Photoshop (never played with color & brightness values). Size of projected screen was; ~65" diagonal, and room was totally dark. Demo movies downloaded from Microsoft's WMV HDTV page (demo movies were 720P & 1080i), and pictures were downloaded from Caedes.Net... Btw, don't worry about those dark areas of the picture edges, in the real life; there is no dark areas on the projected screen.

I don't want to talk too much, let the pictures talk ...

P.S.: Thanks Elken 2004 to enlighten us .

so where did you get it whats your source?

nice screens btw!

I bought it from a local seller for $37 ( I live in Third World). I'm sure that, you could find it in US and A easily.

lol you'd be suprised!

Yes ...

More pictures:

You can see reflections of the light on my bed . It's really bright...

Wow, those look quite fantastic. Get we get some more white ones? Is the diffiference in color temp really noticeable? Is it worth getting instead?

I will try to take some more pictures (with whites) in few days. Color temp. difference was a little bit noticeable, but not that much in reality. In fact, saturated colors, and superior blacks are absorbing that disadvantage of lower color temperature. It's compeletely worth to buy.

What's your throw. How far is the projector from the screen/wall?

Throw distance was ~2 meters.

Thanks. Your results look awesome btw!

hey buddy, nice to see you did it

how many lumens is this bulb supposed to give ? it's like 14000 I think ? so not exactly a 30% improvement over regular OSRAM HQI, which are said to be 11000

is the white perfectly white ?
I don't trust digital cameras as they need to make a white balance and tend to make yellowish white look perfectly white.

and more importantely, you say the dark scenes look great ?
what about matrix 3 ?

I get crispy perfect white with my Venture 6500K light bulb, but dark movies like matrix 3 look like sh*t

To be honest, I've always been cheating with my PJ. Whenever it's connected to my PC which it always is, I just jack up the gamma/brightness/contrast to something that looks nice - I made a few presets for them - games, movies, dark movies, etc.

You can make your screen SUPER BRIGHT just by adjusting the brightness/contrast/gamma so though I'd like to get more brightness via a bulb, I don't mind cheating if it's cheaper and if I can keep my total white.

Yes, but this is not the point
HouseMachine and I both have chinese DIY projectors with the same optical elements.

I am well aware that I can increase the brightness to the max, but that's no use.

I get awesome brightness and color temperature with my Venture 6500K 150W RX7s light bulb, and it gives 12300 lumen, but in dark movies like Matrix3 the black is not deep at all, it looks more like dark grey, but that's because of the LCD panet itself I guess..as messing with the panel settings won't help

Thanks mate. Actually this bulb has smaller arc than default bulb. I mean, it must be giving more improvement than those lumen values of the bulbs (due to smaller arc).

Whites are not that good ( a little bit yellowish ). You're right about digital cameras, I think my camera increases color temp. automatically. In the real life; whites are a little bit different, when I compare with the pictures.

I don't have Matrix 3 at the moment, but I will try to get it, and will inform you.

adjust your rgb on panel this will fix whites

I was played with the RGB values via ATI Tray Tools, but it wasn't fixed. I think I'm getting more yellowish whites than you, due to overdriven lamp.

you can't turn yellowish white into perfect 6500K white

hate to differ,, but yes you can,,,, at panel level,,, by using personal settings,,, using a greyscale pattern on display,, by achieving proper greys,, I have spent half my life dealing with this kind of setup,,,

software adustment is not the correct point to do it,,, it is used as refinement only,,, if you have ffdshow,, youcan adjust individual colour gamuts..

my lamp is producing perfct whites,, but only after setting panel to correct settings

white text on black is stark and crisp

sorry to sound curt,, but unless you understand the very basics first, you will be going around in cirlces forever adjusting,,,

primary and formost is setting correct greyscale. then saturation,, oh of course, correct brite and contrast too..

the lamps give unequal amounts of red blue and green irrespective of colour kelvin temps

the 6500 k colour of a lamp is its colour rendition of reflected off of surfaces only,, this does not translate to CF filter on or thru a panel,,, its a misnomer... we only use the RGB components of a lamps emission

different strokes for different folks,, and CFL's used in original monitor panels are different too,, this needs to be understood fully first..

well, considering perfect white is R:0 G:0 B:0, I wonder how u could turn a 4200K white into 6500K

They eye quickly gets used to CCT and after a while even a 9300K white will look perfectly white to you, but switch back to 6500K and you'll find it so blue

for reference :

Well it's the temperature of the light, reason why lamps are rated at specific temps.

So if I got it right, you might even get a 6500K white with a 3000K halogen lamp ?

I don't buy it, sorry

sorry again,, you have thge wrong view


a lamp is rated at say 6500k,,, you have to relaise thats rated at the total range of emissions as reflected by objects, as per the lamps original purpose in life,,,,, to illuminate objects

it does not transalate to a lamp used as a light sourece where it goes thru three filters being the CF filters in a panel,,, so therefore only those portions of the lamp are used,, which is not equal to the whole lamps rating,,,

we have control at panel level as to what temp so to speak is finally screened,,, I know for a fact that this is lost by most in proper understanding..

if you take only the rgb parts of lamp where it used to 6500k,,, in actual fact you have another temp totally,,

for OUR CRI factor ( projection )to be correct a lamp needs to provide balanced temp ONLY in the RGB portions...

hummmmmmmmmkay

so what would be THE ultimate bulb according to you ?

I've tried many different types of temps in my life, and nothing comes close to 6500K venture bulbs with my LCD Panel set to 6500K.
ppl have perfectly white shirts, the red are perfect, and the blue too.

even an OSRAM 5200k looks way warmer, and I did fiddle with the OSD settings each time.

Mmm, thanks for that explanation. Now I can see the ceramic lamp having more potential. What kind of ballast does that bad boy use? I've been told to stick it in my Fifth Element 7" portable dvd player projector that I'm working on. I think it sounds quite promising. Oh wait, I need to see if I can change the color temp on my pdvdp.

Can you explain the process step by step with details? I think that the last that you say is one of the most interesting post that I have seen.
Thank you.

well it's unfortunately untrue, yellowish you are, yellowish you'll stay :

http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s...3358&st=758
http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s...3358&st=767

so well then explain this one from when the lamp was but a baby,,,

Click to view attachment

and this one..

Click to view attachment

and the whites in this where there is yellow on left side of pic
Click to view attachment

It kinda gets tiresome,,, when some say it cant be done,,, when it has been done,, and the proof has been provided....

graphs and charts tell you information,,, but the chart alone is not the whole story,,, it is a six dimensional model,,

well digital cameras balance the whites before each snapshot, so DC photos are meaningless. yellowish white will look 6500K perfect, but IRL it's not.

maybe you got lucky and your 4200K lightbulb is not quite 4200K, which happens very often....so it might be +5000K after or before burning in, as it's been shown in many real life tests that the bulbs never exhibit the rated temp and it keeps on ever changing during the lamp lifespan.

but following your "explanations", you seem to believe that you can get a perfect 6500K white with a 3200K lamp, which is false and untrue, as demonstrated by the 2 links I posted above.

well,,, I give up,,,,

I know what white balance is,,, and for starters where did 3200K come in to all of this,

My last word on subject is,,, the camera photo's are nowhere as good as standing or sitting in my lounge in person....

some guy asked you about infos how to turn yellowish white to 6500K white, by all means please enlighten us

eh...

I haven't gathered the courage to start in on your giant thread Elken, but after seeing those screenies gives me strength.

For those doubting Elkin, thinking of it this way might help.

You do NOT get full spectrum from or through an LCD. Put a narrow band pass red filter over your eyes and all you will see is red falling within the pass specs for that filter. If bulb A has color temp of 6500 and bulb B has color temp of 4000 it absolutely will not matter while you are looking at the light from either bulb through the red filter. The intensity of red light you see from either bulb MIGHT be different, but the color will not be.

Now, how is white produced by an LCD? By allowing light through each of the red, green and blue sub pixels (filters). It is NOT produced by merely allowing the bulb light through unimpeded. Since the amount of appropriate red, green or blue light able to pass through each of the red, green or blue filters (sub pixels) on the lcd may vary, then adjusting the individual gamuts on the LCD does in fact make sense in order to achieve appropriate white. This will also help individual color separation as well UNLESS a particular bulb is seriously deficient in a particular portion of the red, green or blue spectrum. As an example, if the green "filters" on your lcd pass 495-520nm light but your bulb has a sharp cut off in emitted light at 480-502nm then it may be impossible to create a decent looking white no matter what you do.

Lets consider a bulb that only produces light in exactly the wavelengths passed by each of the RGB filters in your LCD. If the intensity of one of the colors is significatly greater or lower than the others, then the combination will produce a white that is off (assuming our eyes don't discriminate based on color - which they do). In this instance adjusting the gamut for the one color that is off will likely result in a pleasing white. But if this same bulb produces light in one of the colors that is only half of the allowable range of wavelengths for that color (like the green example above), then changing the intensity of the light will passing through that color filter will only help somewhat if at all.

Software adjustments don't typically affect the LCD color settings but rather adjust the color data (if your greens look blue on screen and you adjust color in software it will make the green data have more yellow so when it comes out on screen it will appear to be a better green- or more intense if adjusting brightness that way). This is the basis of some very sophisticated and very costly color matching services and software purchased by printing and publishing art houses.

The better the temperature and CRI of your bulb the less adjustments needed on either the LCD or the software.

If you have followed the threads on black screens or daylight paint mixes you will see that in the projected image only the appropriate RGB wavelengths need be considered although it is apparent that there are definite variations from one LCD to another.

So the bottom line is probably to set all software controls to default, adjust the LCD directly and the adjust in software if necessary regardless of which bulb you use.

Cheers.

This could be the reason why elken is getting better whites in his setup than other people who use his 150W bulb. It could be that his specific 17" LCD panel is better suited for the spectrum emitted by this bulb.

In any case, if LCD monitors are usually designed to be paired with 6500K backlight, it is only natural that 6500K lamps will work the best in a pj setup...

agreed, mr ,,,,,,,elken,,,,,,, prolly has a funky lcd panel and that's why his funky bulb goes along,,, well,,,

afaik all the LCD panels have 6500K backlight, and I can tell you that I get perfect 6500K white with my Venture 150W 6500K RX7s bulb, so I'm quite reluctant to try the Powerball 4200K even though it prolly would be around 20% brighter(14800 instead of 12300).

even EYE(jap. bulb manufacturer) told me that Venture makes the brightest 150W HQI, and only their CRI(96 instead of 90) would make sense to use EYE bulbs.

You've built a LL pj soulfire ?. How big is your screen, and do you find your lamp bright enough ?. The 6500K color temp seems really appealing... I wish elken could have done a side by side comparison between his 4200K bulb and your 6500K bulb.

The whole concept of color temp is a little misleading. It like saying I have a 100mph car. By it self it lets you know the average color balance of the light.

6500k is not whiter than 4200k It is more blue or it could be red deficient or it could have more green and blue you just don't know unless you look at the spectrum of each lamp.

A 6500k lamp could have many different spectrographs that might be called 6500k it means almost nothing. It is a vary general way to tell what color the lamp will make.

A 6500k backlight and a 6500k MH lamp will have a different power response. To say a 6500k mh is a better match is just a guess.

It may be that the logic chip in the LCD will recurve the RGB to match a backlight and this will screw things up with a different light source but just using a another 6500k lamp may not fix it.

I would try to recurve the RGB with a test pattern and use the advances adjustments that come with the video card. We have a digital picture.

You know the lamp makes a lot of red so turn it down a touch, bump up the blue just a bit and bam a 6k light

Good description,,,


errr a TECH tip

when working with MDF

the best sander to use,,, kitchen scotch brite scourer,, to get those little furries that happen, or just to take that sharp edge off,,, yeah yeah I know off topic,,,, maybe one of our Illustrious modie ladism will throw it in the bin or stick somewhere not in a dark place,, but somewhere heheheheh

well I've got the LL premade pj,

here's what it gives with a 5200K HQI OSRAM light bulb :

http://img458.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn00934lz.jpg
http://img399.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn00811gb.jpg
http://img130.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn00840js.jpg
http://img182.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn00895hf.jpg

and here's what it gives with a 6500K HQI Venture :

http://img119.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn0142lp9.jpg
http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn0147bn3.jpg
http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn0182ga4.jpg
http://img123.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn0158rd9.jpg


pics are not *retouched* in any way, and you can see that the 6500K is a lot colder than the 5200K. ppl with white shirts appear perfectly crisp white and true to life, which is a delight to look at

Yes, 6500K is bluer than 4200K which is a lot more yellow, it's a trade off.

but in my book, 6500K is perfect white :






well that's exactly what I'd like HouseMachine to try

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I would urge anyone who believes they can transform their whites to look a little closer into colour filters

Some info here:
http://www.rosco.com/us/filters/cinegel.asp

Bottom of page:


then google "Mired shift" to understand how to pick the correct filter

You will find that light losses incurred by filtering to go from 4200K to 5000K+ are considerable

Fresh screen shots :

And this is the best one , as I mentioned that before; reds are kind of amazing with this bulb :



P.S. : In the real life, luminance level is 100% similar with these photos, however whites are a bit yellowish (as I mentioned in this thread)...

hey House

so white is white or yellow IRL ?

you told me the tricks from mr elken,,,,,, to get perfect white with powerstrip didn't work at all, so are these pics using your funky blue reflector or the stock one ?

Cheers and nice pix btw

Mate, I was sending a PM to you when you were posting this message... I sent you an OSD screen shot of my lcd panel.

I took these pictures with default reflector. And whites are still a bit yellowish, so there was no success with any kind of color adjustments. I had to remove that blue reflector due to heavy smell (I think I got drugged because of that smell; I mean I seen thousands of different dreams previous night ).

As you know I was not able to adjust color temp. values using my panel's menu. I mean I was adjusting those values via 3rd parity software. With Soulfire's suggestions I tried some different method to adjust color temp. values of my lcd panel, and get freakin' good results.

After several adjustments, I found right vales to get ~5500K (yes it's around 5500K imo) whites :

1) Adjusted the blue value to 100.
2) Adjusted the green & red values to 0 (yes; zero).
3) Adjusted brightness value to 65.
4) Adjusted contrast value to 100 (yes 100).
5) Tweaked (played with blues) color values using ATI Tray Tools.
6) Bingo ! I've got freakin' good whites... I'm not kidding, it's like having a real commercial projector ...

Difference is very very significant, it's like magic lol... I will try to post screen shot photos with same pictures, and same conditions.

I was even thinking increasing color temp. via panel settings is impossible, however I seen that Elken was right on this issue . For me; this was most interesting experience with the bulbs & lcd panels.

I think everyone should start looking for a Philips CDM-TD 150W/942 .