Hey folks,

Now that my PJ is pretty much complete and I have started to set up my HT, I decided to move my speaker set from my computer downstairs to the HT. The speaker wires will go through the ceiling to hide them. Unfortunately, the center speaker's wire is quite short and won't reach the sub. It has some sort of jack on one side that connects to the subwoofer and the other end is just a pair of stripped wires. I was thinking of just buying some extra speaker wire and connecting them with marrettes or just soldering them together. Now I'm not some crazy audiophile, but I'd like to know if there would be any noticeable loss of quality when extending the wires or even if this is the best way to do it.

Thanks,
Steve

In all liklihood, you'd never notice a difference, provided that you use good wire.

It's still poor practice to splice wire in the middle, and I'd be more likely to replace the jack and put together a new wire. This is more for convention (And partly for safety) than for sound quality, but it's still the way that I'd do it.

Thanks for the reply SupraGuy. I really didn't consider the safety factor. I was just looking at it from an audio perspective, but I think I will do it right and use another jack.

As far as I know, there isn't anything to worry about "safty" wise. Have no idea what he's talking about.

I've spliced speaker wires all my life. Never had any problems.

As long as it is out of site, just twisting them together and taping them with black tape is sufficient. Soldering them is way overkill.

If you want it to "look" more professional, just use butt-splices. You can pick them up lowes/HD/radio shack... wherever.

One thing to note, the longer your wire run it, the bigger the wire you want to go. I wouldn't go less than 14 guage on the bass speaker, though 16 would suffice.

Good luck.

Been there. Done that.

See this old thread.

Actually the output from your amp is AC, so if the wires were bare, and you were playing something loud, you might get a little shock. I built a vehicle that has 20,000 watts and on any of the wires you could replicate a wall receptacle. I think that the safety issue he was referring to.

Wait, your using the center wire for the subwoofer? If it is for the subwoofer just use some good quality wire. Only only speakers one should truly worry about is the center and the sides. The center speaker plays 80% of the sound in a movie and therefore should have great wire for the best sound. A subwoofer is just playing base and as long as there is no interference on the wire it should be fine. to get the best wire contact, I would think a compression connector pressing the 2 wires together would work well.

Just a little hint...its always best to go the perallel way when wiring. No sound is lost and since it is not in a series, you dont have to worry about negative and positive running from one speaker to another and losing a sertain frequency. That way every speaker gets the freq its suppost to. And yes there will be a loss when extending speaker wire. Especially when the wire is already over 5'. When extending wire its best to go with a low AWG grade wire preferably 12, because it will have less of a sound loss in between connections, just make sure you use high grade electrical tape.

And i think he means the mid sub, in the center channel. He probably has a 3-way speaker.

Actually, it's always best to wire in series when it's appropriate to wire in series, and wire in parallel when it's appropriate to wire in parallel. No sound is lost either way. What is important is wiring the drivers so an appropriate impedance is loading the amp.

Neither the sound nor the frequency (What's the frequency, Kenneth?) can get out of those wires as long as they're hooked up nice and tight. If they're loose, then one end might fall off and then the music will dribble out on the floor and that's sad.

I'm pretty sure the OP was talking about a subwoofer with an amp for the satellite speakers, as in a 5.1 sound system designed for computers, and not a "mid sub"(sic).

I won't even touch the high grade electrical tape or speaker wire length/gauge. (I just got in heap big trouble with SJ and BoomerBrian last time I talked about speaker wires.)

I meant parallel is better because in a series you loose about 4 to 6 dbs in between speakers. Altho you probably wont be able to tell if you dont turn your system up loud.

So, if I have 2 woofers I want to hook up to my amp, you're saying I should just hook them up in parallel, because it's better, right? By better do you mean louder?

Yes, Ever speaker will get an even amount of wattage. In a series, the next speaker will have lost a small amount of wattage. You wont get the most out of every speaker. Especially at a loud volume.

So, where does the wattage go in a series circuit? Is there a black hole that it falls into?

If "the next speaker will have lost a small amount of wattage", then you're saying that if I have 50 speakers hooked in series, the first one will be the loudest, and each one will get quieter down the line, right?

Thats right. Each speaker uses up a small amount of voltage to move the coil.

Altho with tweeters you wont notice a difference. Cause the voice coil doesnt have to move.

So, let's go back to my question to you about my 2 woofers that I want to put in an appropriate box and hook up to my amp as a subwoofer for my HT system. I should hook them up in parallel, right? And since these particular woofers have dual voice coils, should I hook the voice coils on each woofer in parallel, too?

Here's the specs for the amp and the woofers.

This receiver is my baby. I bought it with money I made roofing in a Nebraska summer. In other words, it's paid for with lots of sweat.

You dont "have to", but you will get the most out of them. Also i dont think that those subs have daul voice coils, If they do they would have 2 inputs on each speaker. (unless i just dont see them in the pic) But no, you dont have to wire the coils on each sub in parallel, I would always use a series with daul inputs on each sub.

Yes, they have dual voice coils. And that would be 4 inputs on each speaker, 2+ and 2-.

Did you take a look at the specs for my receiver? Did you happen to notice it's not rated for a 2 ohm load, much less a half-ohm load? 1/2 ohm is the impedance you get when you put 4, 2 ohm voice coils in parallel.

If I hooked up a 1/2 ohm impedance to my vintage Pioneer silverface, I'd get a whole lot of sound for a bit, and then smoke out of the receiver. And that would most definitely be sad.

I really think you should do some studying of basic electrical theory before you advise people on how to connect their equipment. From your other posts, it's evident to me that your understanding of series vs. parallel wiring, and appropriate loads for amplifiers is lacking. I'm not trying to be mean, but you could really do some expensive damage to equipment with inappropriate loads.

You didnt say anything about wanting to know about your Ohm standing with your receiver. You asked about wiring your subs. And why would you count (+) and (-) as 2 inputs? That only counts for one audio input. I worked for the JBL factory in NC for 3 years. And am currently in the SPL division in IASCA. If your trying to prove me wrong, you cant, and dont try, it just makes you look bad. Just because your screen name says "guru" doesnt mean you have more knowledge than me. It just means that you have typed more.

I asked you if that was what I should do, and gave you information on what drivers were being connected to what amp. You essentially said yes, do it that way. If you're going to hand out advice on connecting equipment to a completely unknown person, you have to assume it's Joe Blow who can barely figure out how to strip a wire without losing a finger.


See above. Joe don't know inputs.


That's nice. I worked at Square D for 13 years. Can I come wire your house?

Hmm. Tell you what I'll do, I won't try to prove you're wrong if you won't hand out bad advice.

Here's a reference for you: Series vs. Parallel Wiring

Where does he say he doesnt know how many inputs he has? Give the mane some credit, i would assume he knows how to strip a wire , I mean....look at his hobby.

Sqaure d?

I know what series and parallel are. Again, you said nothing about wanting to know your Ohm standing with your receiver.

Square D

Yes, but you should definitely read the first paragraph at least. Particularly the last two sentences.

You asked about wiring your subs. You wanted to know nothing about you receiver. If you had asked about your receiver, i would have said the internal amp would burn up. But, you wanted to know about your SUBS.

If you're going to make blanket statements about how to wire loudspeakers, you should also have a blanket CYA statement like, "Make sure the total impedance of the speakers matches your amp's capabilities."

I can't quite puzzle out where the sound and certain frequencies go to. Maybe the same place socks go when they disappear from the clothes dryer? And the high grade electrical tape is still making me smile.

Again, I'm trying to figure out where those sneaky dBs go to.

Actually, when you wire in parallel, each speaker has an equal voltage drop, but not necessarily equal power.
When you wire in series, you get an equal amount of current through each speaker, but not necessarily equal power.
If the amp is driving the speakers at their rated power, you're getting the most out of the speakers. It doesn't matter how they're wired.
If you have identical speakers wired in series OR parallel, each speaker will have the same voltage drop across it, the same current, and the same power as every other speaker in the circuit.

I like how you went back and edited this to say you'd wire the dual coils in series afterward.

I believe you do know what series and parallel circuits are, but the rest of your electrical theory is weak. Did you even read the specs on the receiver? Your "parallel is best" statement does not take into account the amp. You have to consider the amp when wiring speakers, or telling someone else how to do it.


See above. I gave you the information, you didn't take it into account. See my first post in this thread, which I quote from here for your convenience:

(Emphasis added)

Actually what i edited was "(unless i dont see them in the pic)"

Secondly you said they were subs and said nothing about loudspeakers. They operate the same but use Ohms differently. Subs will use more wattage than they will send back.

I said to use a high grade electrical tape just because you dont want to go the crappy way.

Where the certain frequencys go? I mean that if you have it in a parallel and one of the speaker inputs are backwards. Or in a series, the ground from one goes into the ground of another speaker. You will not be able to hear anything above 100Hz.



Sorry, you are just wrong there.

I quoted your post right after you posted it, before the edit. See here: Link
It didn't say anything about series until after I'd blown my amp (figuratively). And even after your edit, it's still a 2 ohm load, which is too low for that amp.

This is my main point: You have to consider the specifications and ratings of the amplifier before telling someone how to wire the drivers. Saying "parallel is best" and "you'll get the most out of 'em" doesn't help when the thick blue smoke curls up out of the amp and the electrolytics are a-poppin'.

If someone asks, "Can I hook these drivers up in parallel?", the proper response is, "Maybe. What amp are you using to drive them?".


Sorry, I used 'loudspeaker' in the generic sense. And I never said they were subs. They are technically woofers, but I tend to be a little loose with my usage. A woofer is still a speaker or loudspeaker, just designed to reproduce the lower range of frequencies. Loudspeaker generally makes people think full range. My bad. I'll try to use "driver" from now on to avoid any ambiguity.


Please explain how they use Ohms differently. Also, please explain how and where they send wattage back to?


What is considered "high-grade", and how is it distinguished from "low" or "medium" grade? The term just struck me funny.


Hmm. I think what you're saying is that if you don't observe polarity when wiring, then your drivers will be out of phase and cancel each other. But that has nothing to do with whether they're wired in parallel or series. You can have them out of phase regardless of circuit topology, nor is it frequency dependent. You said:

And, deciphering the best I can, I paraphrase that as: "It's always best to wire in parallel. In a parallel circuit, no sound (power?) is lost, and polarity is not an issue, nor is cancellation." Which implies that power or certain frequencies are somehow lost in a series circuit.


How? I don't think you read my statement carefully enough. Please provide diagrams showing impedance, voltage drop, current and power in each element in the circuit, with mathematical proof. I'll draw up a few circuits and post later with the appropriate numbers. Feel free to post your own, and I'll do my best to pick them apart, or you can do the same with mine when I get around to making them. Thursday is pool league night, so it will be at least this weekend before I take time to draw up some circuits.

What crappy stuff, I buy the cheap stuff from Home Depot and I have never had a problem. Also, why would you use electrical tape? A wire nut at least but electrical tape would not put enough pressure and you may get a bad contact. The only reason to use electrical tape is to insulate a wire to keep it from shorting out or to tape a screwdriver to the ladder to save yourself a trip to get it back when it falls off the ladder and lands in a large pile of used electrical tape and saw dust. Otherwise, dont use electrical tape in speaker installs.

Oh, its also fun to see how many peices you can get on someones back before they notice.

Thats called "The Magic Blue Smoke". This is becasue when anything of mine releases its "Magic Blue Smoke" it stops working. Therefore, electronics must run on magic blue smoke.

They put a certain quantity of "The Magic Blue Smoke" in at the factory, and when it all comes out, the device quits working.

Sometimes, if you're really fast on the power switch, you can turn it off before ALL the smoke comes out, and it will still work. But you have to be right on top of it.

"And, deciphering the best I can, I paraphrase that as: "It's always best to wire in parallel. In a parallel circuit, no sound (power?) is lost, and polarity is not an issue, nor is cancellation." Which implies that power or certain frequencies are somehow lost in a series circuit."...

Yes that is exactly what i ment.

The plastic screws are the way to go, but i was just talking about tape. Usually it will state the grade of the tape on the back of the little packed they come in.

P.S....."sub' is short for "subwoofer"

Voice coils in subs are tighter than in loudspeakers, They will use more wattage than they send back. Take a 4 and an 8 Ohm sub, the 8 Ohm sub will sen back more wattage than the 4 because they arnt that sensitive and will not move the coil as much as the 4 Ohm sub. The 4 Ohm sub will use the wattage more because it will move the coil more. The higher the Ohm, the more negetive polarity it will send back to the receiver(amp).

Just to be clear....are we talking about car speakers? or Home?

So you're saying if you hook up two woofers in parallel, one output wire from your amp to the positive terminal on driver A, and the negative on driver B; and hook up the other output wire from your amp to the negative terminal on driver A and the positive on driver B, they won't cancel?

And I still want to know where the power (and voltage, and certain frequencies) go to in a series circuit, according to you.


In my experience using electrical tape, which is considerable, the type/price/name doesn't matter as long as it's sticky enough to hold to itself. I only use it for short term connections though. I went through about 1 roll a week for 7 years.


But they're all speakers, which is the diminutive of loudspeakers.

I understand subwoofer to mean a box with one or more drivers+driven elements (cones, most commonly), and possibly ports, horns, or passive radiators, which is exclusively dedicated to reproducing the lower parts of the audio spectrum. To me, a bare driver+cone of the type we're talking about is just a woofer, or, generically, a speaker.

Is that clear? When I say woofer, I'm referring to the driver+driven element, and when I say subwoofer or sub, I'm talking about the whole system, a box+woofer(s) and possibly ports, etc.

And any/all of them are speakers, but we'll just ignore the boxes and cones for now, and stick to discussing the connection of the driver to the amplifier.

Drivers are not power supplies, they can't send power, they just consume it. You put 10 Watts in, you don't get any back. It's either converted to motion (sound) or heat.

Let's not worry about sensitivity. I still want to understand how wattage, voltage and frequencies get lost in a series circuit.

To simplify the discussion, let's just stick with an amp, wires, and drivers, OK? Generic, perfect drivers that have a fixed impedance, and produce sound. Pick whatever impedance (Ohm value) works for the circuit you're talking about.

So, for the sake of discussion, assume a perfect amplifier, perfect wires, and perfect drivers. The perfect amp has an output of 10 Watts at whatever frequency you want, and will produce whatever voltage or current is needed to produce 10W in the load. The drivers will consume 10 Watts. No losses in the wires, no tight or loose voice coils, no home or car speakers. Just little boxes that you hook two wires to, and when you put 10W in, you get 10W worth of "sound" out.

With those assumptions in mind, please explain to me how wattage, voltage, and frequencies get lost in a series circuit.

"So you're saying if you hook up two woofers in parallel, one output wire from your amp to the positive terminal on driver A, and the negative on driver B; and hook up the other output wire from your amp to the negative terminal on driver A and the positive on driver B, they won't cancel?"

(+) on amp to (+) on speaker. And (-) on amp to (-) on speaker.

"Drivers are not power supplies, they can't send power, they just consume it. You put 10 Watts in, you don't get any back. It's either converted to motion (sound) or heat."

Im talking about the resistance in the coil, The more sensitive the speaker the more watts it uses up.

"With those assumptions in mind, please explain to me how wattage, voltage, and frequencies get lost in a series circuit."

I mean, they get lost if one of the wires are backwards.

"I understand subwoofer to mean a box with one or more drivers+driven elements (cones, most commonly), and possibly ports, horns, or passive radiators, which is exclusively dedicated to reproducing the lower parts of the audio spectrum. To me, a bare driver+cone of the type we're talking about is just a woofer, or, generically, a speaker."

Actually the box has nothing to do with what the speaker is called, in short, they are loudboxes. (Enclosure, Ported, Bandpass, Doubleport, U-Tube, Triplepass, Ect.)

You know, i think we both are thinking of the same thing, were just wording it differently.

But to be fair. If i hook up some of my subs in a series(-) from one into (+)of the other). The first speaker will hit the hardest, and if there is just two, the first one will blow the second. You cant argue with facts.

[size="4"][/size] It is of utmost importance to "Stagger" your splices..See attachment...Thanks ....Galaxy