Xscreen

Supposedly you can see the projection in a well lit room...I'll believe it when I see it, but interesting product nontheless!

probably cost 1-2k

So far we have the ChromaVue by Sony, the Visage by Screen Innovations, the XScreen by Planar and the DIY community still can't find a way to make a screen that performs in ambient light?! Lets step it up people!

The diy community has done it. It's called the Black Flame Light Fusion. Here are some results of it.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=705018

Ok, so that looks fantastic, but would it perform with our low lumen pj's?

There's a thread here about a "low lumen mix" somewhere. Personally I haven't tried it yet.

That is addressed here about halfway down the page see pb_maxx's reply to lyle. He's got a mixture called 'black flame lite' made for low lumen PJs.

it should be noted that mynym (from avsforum) is using a refurbished infocus sp4805 in low mode.
in other words, he's likely pushing 400-500 lumens at max. some of the diy made projectors here are capable of doing the same.

in fact quite a few folks who love the mix are using lower lumen pj's.

i'm personally using a viewsonic cine1000 in low mode... which according to projectorcentral is about
475 lumens.

pb, just read that other site and saw the pics. One word, amazing!

Just want to ask, for those like myself fairly or very new to DIY screens can you point us to the name brand of the paints you suggest in the recipe and generally where can we get them. Can this be mixed by the store themselves by providing your recipe to them?

Thanks.

XTREME-FUSION-SCREENS (XFS) will soon have a quality controlled manufactured mix. ETA Sept 1st.



are you ready for some football?!

The last page has some screenshots, and damn those look nice. Someday I'll have to try this out. It might be hard to find some huge ass mirror though....

If you read a bit of the linked forum posts you arent *required* to use a mirror. You can use high gloss white and coat some wallboard or any other smooth board for the base. I'm not sure what the difference would be, PB would probably be better to ask that than me as I'm still a neophyte around here...I just read a lot!

fireballmatt,

you are correct... you don't need a mirror to get some excellent results.
here's a couple of early pics without a mirror using DIY version of the mix.
since then, much has changed with regard to improving the mix... and getting it to a manufactured state.

we will continue to support the DIY version of mix... however, for mirror-like results without a mirror...
you'll want to get a pre-mixed package from XFS. (of course if it looks great without an acrylic mirror... it looks even better with an acrylic mirror)





i'll post some updated pics within the next couple of days... and get MM to post a couple of professional projects he's been working on as well.

Oh man those look gorgeous. I love how youve thrown in a normal white board in there for comparison. I'm going to have to read more about this!

PB - How and when are we going to know when this stuff becomes available, and is this mix going to have to be sprayed or rolled?

can probably be applied both ways, but with spray application yeilding better results.

tameone is correct. the mix can be applied either by rolling or spraying. obviously spraying is the preferred method. the smoother the final finish the better your screen will look both visually and professionally. the mix is already available... ...with fixed screens coming in the very near future. manual pull down screens and electric screens will follow in their footsteps.

http://xtreme-fusion-screens.com

That web site has serious problems.

Paladin, I was having the same problem as you in accesing that website, using Firefox. However, I found that the page displays properly in internet explorer, so I guess the site is not compatible with Firefox.

I was browsing AVSforum the other day when I came across the Black Flame thread. I have to admit, I was very impressed. I hope BC and Lumenlab will sell the premade screens alongside the official Lumenlab manufactured projector!

i am aware of it being incompatible with firefox... and i'm looking into the issues.
IE should work just fine though.

so I imagine you could spray it over an existing screen made of blackout cloth?

when it comes to BOC, spraying is definitely the preferred method.

however, depending on how taut your BOC is framed... you could also roll it as well.

with BOC getting a good smooth basecoat is key.

First time using I.E. in months, hopefully I didn't pickup too many viruses or spyware...

PB- If we are looking to use our low lumen projectors in the day time, we would want to get the Black Flame? Right? Some results would be nice to see with a DIY projector before I take a 175-20% +shipping plunge. I know that the SP 4805 was 400-500 lumens, but most people here get 200-300 lumens with the standard build, last time I saw any significant light tests anyways.

And for the various types of the BF, do you make all types of it? The lite, superlite, regular? And the price is the same for all?

Also one more Q: I have a chalk board that would make a nice panel for the screen, would this work as something to put the paint on?

Thanks much!

Im interested too.
It would be a nice touch from pb_maxxx if he could send a sample to one of our experienced moderators for testing purposes before we all jump on it.

yea, that's a great idea... you can send the 128" (16:9) sample to me ! (just joking)

looks promising for those with ambient light, but does it provide any benefits for those with a light controlled area as well ?

cheers,
gs

Hey! I was talking about the black flame mix that pb_maxxx sells

ok, for the first 3 lumenlab members... i'll take 50% off with no shipping charge.

hint: if you use a prefinished tile board like do-able... or a white melanmie finish that MDF is sometimes finished with... no basecoat is needed.

Litherish
if you use your white chalkboard... you would not need the basecoat.

GadgetSmith
actually, what everyone RAVES about is how great it looks in controlled lighting. ambient light performance is improved but controlled viewing is when it truly shines.

kv29
samples rarely give the whole truth. i've done larger 2'x3' samples that looked like they kicked some butt... only to find out that a full screen using the same substrate and same mix batch resulted in a screen that was less ambient friendly. but if need be, i can possibly get some samples out.

if there is anyone in the chicagoland area who would like to test this out... i'd happy to schedule something with you.

finally, if there are any FIREFOX friendly webmasters out there, i could use some help as frontpage and firefox don't seem to get along.

Something I don't know is how much mix we're talking about... or how much 1/2 price is ! ... suppose I should visit you website ??

I am interested... I'll likely do a 2'x4' panel and show this at it compares to 1)BO cloth 2)Behr Silverscreen and 3)My existing UPW-flat screen as it is now... (much like my previous comparisons) It would also have to be a rolled on application now as I don't have the equipment, facilities or experience necessary for a sprayed-on application. (and kid #2 is on the way, so I don't see myself getting involved in spraying anytime soon...)

You can leave details here or e-mail me gadgetsmith@toast2.net.

thanks pb (&crew)

cheers,
gs

i have alot of experience writting for both ie and firefox drop me a note.

the paint comes in a 1600ml container... which is nearly 2 quarts of paint.

i chose that specifically because i've seen a number of folks on other forums complain that Goo sends you barely enough to do a screen. Goo has 500ml and 1000ml kits and the latter is nearly $200. When it comes to paint mixes, they are my target audience... especially when several former Goo owners have reported how much better their new black flame screens are compared to their old Goo screens.

GadgetSmith... i've got twins on the way myself. 6-8 more weeks.

Diresaint... expect a pm from me shortly. you lumenlab guys are the best.

Oh dang it, did I missed out on this???? :angry:

SIMUL8R you are included.

ah yes, 1600ml (~.5 gal) ... although I was thinking last night it also said 24 oz. ?? ... either I read it wrong or you are updating things on your website

you can count me in (I also sent an e-mail last night after checking your website)


twins hey... sounds like you'll have your hands full ! 13-15 weeks for us... (I figure she'll go into labor as we sit down for Thanksgiving dinner ...)

cheers,
gs

I guess I missed out on this one.
Thank you for all your hard work put into this mix, the results look fantastic.
This will solve all my problem since my wife does not like to sit in the dark.
I am planning to apply it to a front surface 3mm acrylic mirror in the near future.
Wishing you all the best with the twins.

nope. i'll count you in. just shoot me an e-mail at maxx@xtreme-fusion-screens.com or pm me.
i'll let the offer stand through the weekend.

so pb ... whats the difference between the DIY mix you are doing and the for sale version... i kinda feel sad when DIY stuff goes commercial... kinda defeats the original purpose lol but since your still doing the DIY its great even if it isnt the same/as great as the commercial stuff.

50% off, did I catch the boat???? I am in, I am in.......

a question was asked whether the mix i'll be shipping out is the same DIY mix on AVSforum.

what i can tell you is i no longer use any of the delta craft products... neither the metallics, nor the colors.

all of the colors have been replaced by professional pigments. and the metallic gold has been eliminated as well.

Trying to buy from your website and the "buy" button does not work????

select the "EMAIL US" link in the upper right corner. and send me an email with your projector and lighting conditions. then i'll send you a secure paypal invoice. thanx.

pb_maxxx dont suppose its possible to get the DIY side by side with the combined mix your selling... just wanna see what kinda difference to expect I"m probably gonna order from you anyway because im in the caribbean and finding those brands would be a biatch

I just did that.

Thanks.

David

honestly, i don't think there's hardly a commercial front projection screen available that can't be done or approached by going DIY from a visual perspective. the real difference, is the quality controls and of course... the application. a trained sprayer can work wonders but a robot sprayer will get the same consistent results every time.

the interesting thing is whether we can maintain a DIY perspective and hopefully have a commercial product as well. even though we are doing our very best to maintain a balance between a DIY mix and a commercial one... some are very upset at us for going commercial. others think we are fools for not pulling the DIY mixes altogether.

the DIY mix is a good one indeed... and aside from quality controls and application... it'll be hard to establish that it's a step above... that's for sure... but generally better quality materials tend to facilitate a better quality end result.

in many ways... the very fact you can purchase a pre-made mix and build your own screen with it does not take it out of the DIY realm. after all, when we make our DIY projectors... we don't make the lens, instead we purchase it. it's a complex mix and daunting to many to get it just right... ...so getting it pre-mixed just means more are able to have the same experience. when it's all said and done, you can still bring over the jealous neighbor, step back, put your hands in your pockets, and proudly say... i made that!

hehe i agree... but would still love to see a side by side or a panel of the commercial infront of a full diy version.

hey max just threw together an idea for your page layout i wrote the html by hand i dont do frontpage but it looks almost the same in ie and ff just an idea...

test page is HERE

let me know if you want to give it a try maybe you can import the html into frontpage and alter it from there?

oh btw i design for both 800x600 up to 1680x1050 (the later being my screen resolution)

that looks awesome,

it's a crazy day for me... movin' stinks... it's a foreclosed home... so lots of problems gotta get resolved before we can get into it... and with twins on the way in about a month....

and trying to get prepared for CEDIA where we will be showing our product... i'm pullin' my hair out...

no need... it's already fallen out!!!

anyway, what i'm trying to say is... i'll likely need you as a black flame webmaster... we'll talk... i wanna make sure you get something out of it.

-maxx

Does the paint offer any gain in a dark room? I am looking to improve my screen with ambient light, but I do not want to sacrifice any of the brightness when the room is dark.

yes, there is a small amount of gain in a dark room.

but it's not the sort of gain that you would normally be used to with say a white hp screen... because what you get with those is an overall brightness of the color across the whole spectrum with it's limited (small) viewing cone. beyond the 2 or 3 middle seats the drop off is considerable. a hp works it's magic by reflecting as much light back to the viewer as possible within it's limited scope. like many white screens, it's gain comes at the expensive of color vividness and saturation by making everything a shade or two lighter than it should be. which is the opposite of what we've come to love about plasmas.

with black flame... there is a bit of a different philosophy. with bf what you get instead is as much absorbtion by the screen as you do direct reflection. it's ability to absorb as much of the color from the pj as possible allows it have a greater amount of color saturation... while at the same time the metallics provide enough gain to give it a color vividness that is extremely pleasing in controlled lighting. truth is, it's ability to do a better job in ambient light takes a backseat to it's color vividness in controlled light. it truly comes to life with the lights off.

also, unlike the hp screens... there is no worry about ceiling mounting your pj. and it has a mmmuuuucccchhhh wider viewing cone with no 'it just went dark' type of drop off.

foamcows
that projector you built is awesome. you got me motivated to give it a shot!!!

So, let me get this strait -

Step 1. I just get a really huge acrylic mirror and paint it with BF?

Step 2. Cover corners in black frames i.e. felt?

Step 3. Sit back and enjoy the fruit of thousands of LL members and other DIY pros.

Has anyone painted a chalkboard then? Will it truly work?

Can one just paint the dry wall with BF, if it is smooth?

Thanks.

hehe did a little more experimental work on yer site max it may be over the top but i had fun doin it!

yeah i have too much time on my hands...

giver a whirl! blackflame concept site