Tame One's Wild'N'Crazy HD PRO!

I finally have enough components to start building my HD Pro lense projector. I waited weeks for my LL shipment to come in and it showed up at my door last week.
The other day I took a trip to home depot to get the first load of supplies to construct my enclosure. I'm going to start out making the frames for the fresnels, lexan, and LCD

The main components:

- Asus PM17TU 17" LCD monitor. DVI/VGA with ColorShine Glare-type screen (No AG). 3ms response, 600:1 (the monitor is gorgeous.. a shame to tear it apart)

- LL Pro 500mm Triplet

- LL Pro 650/220 Fresnels

- LL/Vue E-Ballast

- LL65K T15 400w MH lamp

- LL Pro reflector

- 1 sheet XL10 Lexan

PJ will be a straight shot horizontal design, unsplit fresnels, threaded rods for adjusting the LCD/Fresnels. The triplet will be in a focus box with +-10cm or so total adjustability. This should allow me to make changes when I move the PJ to a different room with increased throw capacity. At first it will be setup with around a 10ft 5inch throw so I'm expecting around a 90" projection.
I'm still up in the air about creating a light box1, light gate, or light sheild but it will probably happen.. just have to work out the air flow.

Fresnel frame design:

Fresnels will attach to the frames with magents so I can set them to dead center without relying on the frame dimensions. Strip magnets attached to fresnel, flat steel bar glued to wood frame in a routed out strip (will make sense later). fresnel will just stick right onto the frame for X-Y adjustability.

bulb and lightbox (if I build one) will be adjustable in all 3 dimensions to get that sucker dead center. I've got 100 designs floating around in my head for this so it will be a game-time decision.

pics of the crap

LCD


ballast


500mm triplet, bulb, reflector, mogul.. all in packing for protection


lexan xl10 sheet and some frame wood

80x110" blackout cloth.. will make for 125" or so diagonal screen.. got kinda dirty


brief full scale layout of the design.. dont pay attention to the light 'cone' its incorrect for a reason



threaded rods and flat steel bars that will be interted into the frames.. the magnets will stick to these. also some stained trim from the kicthen remodeling and sub box I build


some of the wood for the fresnel frames and some rounded trim to reduce air resistance around the frames

bag of goodies.. brackets, braces, nuts, washers, metal cutting wheel


an old PSU I cannibalized.. thinking about using it for the reflector holder. Its very old.. manufac date Oct 1, 1987 also hidden trade secrets


a spare bedroom that I use to build PCs and right now, mock up and store the projector

one of my work benches.. this one in its own room in the basement. obviously never been used


the rest of the room.. again, clearly this has never housed a project hehe

Yeah its too bad you never got a chance to use your shop....

So why is the design for the light cone incorrect and for what reason?

I wanted the incident angle from the triplet to LCD to be as small it might ever be so I could see how much larger the fresnel needed to be than the LCD. it stops before it even hits the triplet. on the other end, I wanted the incident angle from bulb to fresnel as large as possible so I could see the max width of light 'cone' that might want making it to the fresnel, for a lightgate

I'm really looking forward to following your plog...
Anyone who attains guru status in a month should be fun to watch.

good luck

I posted this question over in the cooling thread but have gotten no real replies.

what is the advantage of matting the collimating fresnel directly against the lexan/tempered glass? Is it simply to help insure the fresnel will not bow? Also, if I were not to matt them together, would I want airflow between the rear fresnel and the lexan? i.e. down the back of the LCD, under the fresnels, up between fressy and lexan, over lexan into light chamber.

i believe this is for 2 reasons.

1. Lexan can melt so the farther from the light the better
2. Air flow around the fresnels needs to setup so that the both fresnels stay at the same temperature.
Otherwise one fresnel will heat-expand moving the focal center and the other won't.

wouldn't matting the fresnel against the lexan cause the collimating fressy get hotter than the field? considering A) it will be butt against the lexan, and the field fressy will have cool air between it and the LCD.

I can't find a definite answer on that. Why is it impossible to find a spec sheet on XL10? I can't even find a max temp for it. Someone mentioned it's stable up to 800 degrees F... but I can't find anything to back that up.... let alone the conductivity of it.

Back in the day... (when I first joined LL )... it was the split setup that was popular, which meant that i'd mated my collimating fresnel to the lexan as it tended to bow, but I also put the fresnel on the triplet side of the lexan. Well, after a "problem" (in which my lamp was on, and my fans were not... oops) my collimating fresnel bowed, but when fresnels bow, they tend to go bow towards the "ring" side. It was then that I installed the fresnel on the lamp side of the lexan. (yes, exposed to whatever UV the lamp could throw at it) This is better for controlling the bow of the fresnel (because the rings face the LCD), but not good for protecting the fresnel from UV. This is the way I ran for a while... until...

(enter the pro triplet)

... I got the new lenses and installed them. The throw on the pro triplet being much longer means I no longer required keystoning, which meant that I could go to an unsplit design, which I much prefer for the picture quality. I still kept the collimator mated to the lexan, but now also had the field fresnel on the lamp side of the LCD. My cooling now ran between my field fresnel and the LCD, with no real cooling at all near the collimating fresnel. No worries. I ran like this for months with no problems with cooling or fresnel bowing. (collimating fresnel was the Pro 220mm FL) Until a recent addition of a condenser lens, did I switch from my setup using a 220 collimator.

It is from this experience that I would say that there is no real cooling required between the collimator and field fresnel when running an unsplit fresnel setup.

Hope my "story" has been of some use.

cheers,
gs

Hay Smitty, in the unsplit design... just making sure did you have the colllminating fresnel on the lamp side of lexan???? and when you say mated does that mean right up against the lexan OR a 2-5mm space ???

Chars

~I'm melting....~

Hey Tame, just wondering if your Vue ballast makes any noise when you shake it, as though there's a collection of very small marbles or average sized dried mouse feces in there? I have one, which appears to work well, but which sounds very broken, and has always sounded like that.

Good luck on your project!

nope, no mouse kakapoopoo in there.. completely silent

ok so as it stands now, air path will be as follows: air in from slot on top of enclosure and travel down the back of the LCD, travel under both fresnels and the lexan and into the bulb chamber. I really want to use my idea to mount the frenels to the frames with magnets, but this would stop me from mating the lexan directly against the collimating fresnel.. it would have to be about 1/4" away, on the otherside of the frame from the lens.



red = air path
brown = frame wood
black = LCD
aqua = fresnels
blue = lexan
gray = metal flashing to block air going inbetween fresnels and causing resistance

Tame,

So, you are building Pj with unsplit fresnels, right?

yes unsplit, straight shot.

I started work on the 1st fresnel frame today. I stuck the 1.5" by 1/4" window stock (made from alpine) on the router table and cut a 1/8"x 1/2" recess so the flat metal bars will sit flush with the face of the frame. This way the magnets adhered to the fresnel can be misaligned with the metal and overlap onto the wood without a problem. this will allow for about 1/4" X-Y adjustability of the fresnels before the magnets lose too much grip.

A quick session with the compound miter saw and I have some 45* angles to make the joints. I plan to use the L brackets shown in the pic below and some glue to make them secure. The only piece cut to its final length is the piece with both ends at 45*.. despite all the burn marks, the grooves are actually very nice and even

tomorrow I will finish the frame, miter the metal bars and epoxy them to the frame. then I just need to find the right magents with strong enough adhesive.

all 4 pieces of the frame


metal bar sitting flush


frame sitting together and L brackets

pretty much finished the 1st frame today. made the rest of the cuts on the miter, then screwed it together with L brackets. Couldn't find 1/4" wood screws since I guess they don't exist, so 1/2" with 1/8" ground off the ends with grinding wheel did the trick.

I also cut all the metal bars at near 45* angles to sit nicely in the frame. couldn't get the blade off th emiter saw so the cuts didn't come out perfect with the circular saw but it doesnt matter. quick session with the grinding wheel and they fit nicely.

tomorrow I will build the other frame, epoxy the metal bars in, paint flat black, and mount the lexan then its time to strip the LCD and build its frame

frame screwed together and wall in need of painting (.. again.. so many projects)


bars sitting in the frame and sandal

Here are the painted frames, front and back. I used BBQ Grill paint that I found, in all places, at the Auto parts store. Its high temp, good for 1200* and pretty flat, although I was hoping it would be more flat. Definitely overkill for something this far from the bulb, but I'll just use it for everything. Frames are the same size, one just turned on its side. The glop on the back of the left frame is epoxy I used to secure the joints better and help stop the screws from backing out.

I masked off the groove where the metal will sit to give a good seat for the epoxy. I plan to use JB Weld to epoxy the metal bars into the frames. Holds 3960lbs at up to 500* so I think it can survive life in a PJ. I prepared a test piece and let it dry for 4 hours, the minimum 'set' time. I was able to get it apart after a few pulls, but I imagine in the 24hrs needed to dry it will be hard as steel. I'm considering purchasing the quick set JB weld good for 2100lbs and 300* since it sets in only 4 min.. still overkill, but not quite over the top

here are the pieces that will make up the lamp and reflector mounts.



here is the rough idea, proped together.



the mogul will be bolted through the perforated plate with nuts to make it adjustable on the Y axis (up and down). The entire plate will sit on magnets so it will be fully adjustable on the X-Z plane. This should give me more than enough fore and aft adjustability.

The reflector will be rigged to the 80mm fan guard with springs. the guard will be bolted to the vertical metal strips which will be in turn bolted to the bottom perforated plate so that the reflector will move with the bulb. The fan guard will be adjustable in the Z axis (fore-aft) with the use of nuts on the bolts. The holes in the vertical strips will be larger than the bolts, and with the use of the large fender washers in the 1st pic, the guard will be adjustable on the X-Y plane by maybe 5mm in each direction. I was hoping to use magnets on the fan guard so it could just slide around on the vertical strips, but being so close to the arc, I feel they will get way too hot.

this of course is with the bulb mouted vertically so it burns as bright as possible. I will not be using a light box, but I will be using a light gate. more on that later!

Monitor Stripping -- Asus PM17TU

I decided to take a step ahead and strip the LCD tonight since I was dying to see if there was an FCC issue.

The strip itself was a royal PITA. took me about 2 hours from opening the box until I was able to tuck everything away in a safe place. I was extremely happy however to see there was NO FCC ISSUE

The monitor with protective film cover w/ alot of finger prints


Removed two screws from the back, but then I had to pry the face plate off with a tiny screw driver. there were about 12 clips holding it on.. was a pain in the arse. finally got the face off


after removing 6 screws holding the metal frame for the LCD and backlight I could lift it up. A peek underneath reveals backlight wires. the panel could only be lifted about 2 inches due to these and the panel wires. It was a pain to unplug the backlight wires.. they didn't want to come off. this seemed to be a recurring theme with this monitor. I actually sliced one of the pink wires.. good thing I won't need them

the back of the panel and backlight assembly. you can clearly see the single PCB that is connected to the LCD panel on the bottom and the sole ribbon connection going to it. This obviously means no FCC issue from a stupid side mount PBC


here are the cases for the control and power boards. the ribbon cable to the LCD connected right next to the ribbon in this pic


the LCD control board. the ribbon for the LCD connects here. its in its own little metal box

inside the other metal case we have the powerboard (left) and the I/O board (right). The powerboard is connected to the I/O through pins and a terminal block (I should know the real name.. haven't done electrical design since college ) so they both must remain in this exact position. I plan to just stick the whole metal box into the PJ with the lid and all.


The LCD panel in the metal frame. Arn't you jealous of that super No-AG shine? I didn't remove the backlight since it will still be awhile before I build the LCD frame. I wrapped the PCBs in an anti static bag and screwed the LCD and backlight backinto the monitor case for safe keeping.


and that wraps up this session of stripping pain in the ass monitor 101.

I have been away on vacation and haven't gotten anything done, but I got in some of the final slew of components, and the rest should be arriving any day.

these include:

(2) 81CFM, 33dB 120vac Orion fans from mouser.com. metal case, very heavy. should work well. shipped extremely fast, very happy with mouser service overall.

(10) N40 NdFeb 0.75"x0.75"x0.25" magnets for the lamp/reflector mount off eBay.. I'll probably use around 4

(1) Attic thermostat for fan control from Homedepot. couldn't find one of these anywhere for the life of me. local hardware stores had nothing. Local HomeDepot didn't have it so I got it off homedepot.com.. found the part number in a thread here. was $18. I can supply online part number if anyone is looking.

(1) 4'x8'x.75" oak ply board for enclosure. should look very nice after being stained and covered with helmsman poly I just happen to be using to refinish the wood counters in the kitchen

I plan to cut out the pieces for the enclosure using my circular and table saws tonight after I mow the lawn

hopefully I'll have this mostly together by the end of this weekend and maybe a picture a week after that?

crappy drawing for internal dimensions



A = max distance from LCD to center of triplet
B = max distance from LCD to front fresnel
C = max distance between fresnels
D = max distance from rear fresnel to lamp arc adjusted fully back.
E = min distance from arc center to back of enclosure

A = 612 mm (14ft throw)
B = 20 mm
C = 20 mm
D = 254 mm (approx 220 mm optimal distance + 1.33 inches aft adjustability)
E = ~ 4 inches

gives a total of about 40 inches for the external box dimensions since triplet pokes out

stuff that came in the mail today

attic fan thermostat from home depot with the cover off. 2 wire, very simple. knob to adjust from 60 to 120*F

Internet/Catalog #100098472
Store In-Stock SKU # 144967

also digital alarm thermometer from technika.com http://www.technika.com/Sper/s800040.htm

" This device allows the user to set minimum and maximum temperature alarms both the internal and external sensor. The external sensor, mounted on a cord 9’ long, is waterproof and can be used outdoors or in liquid. When the temperature exceeds the preset parameters, an audible alarm will sound. "

Range: -4 to 158°F

looks to be an excellent unit except I can't figure out how to turn it off. Nothing in the manual about it and no off button. battery in.. its on. batt out, its off



3/8 inch rubber weather stripping from the basement strips in half, self adhesive, 1/8 inch thick. will surround the fresnel and LCD frames as well as the lid

my NdFeb magnets came today.. (10) .75x.75x.25 inch magnets off ebay. they are super strong.

heres how they arrived.. I immediately took them apart and started playing.. of course, I let let two of them get too close (maybe a foot) and they smashed into each other, breaking a piece off one. I actually did this twice and broke the same magnet again



two of these would literally react to each other from a foot away THROUGH my hands, but lets see how they work with materials w/o their own field.

can they hold up the metal plate for the bulb holder through my hand? sure.. easy as pie with 10



how about hold a washer through my hand over an inch inch away? a little more difficult, but no problem

anyone need a superpowered magnetic screw driver?



and now a true test.. can the single broken magnet hold the ceramic mogul, bulb, and a small plate vertically? ahh.. simple as 1, 2, 3 I guarantee the magnet is doing all of the holding here, and its completely off the bed. I could shake it a little and it wouldn't slip




it might be all in my head, but I swear these make my hands tingle for a good 15 min after handling them

Pretty cool man. I like how the magnets arrived just stuck together with foam seperating them. Do you have a plan to use them on the triplet too? I think I know a way... but would it be better than the other ways used before...

EDIT: Also, I wonder if your magnets will interfere with the metal parts inside you bulb. Seeing as how they're so strong, even if they're a foot away.

it would mess with the fans wouldn't it?

they might mess with the fans, but they will be close to a foot away and sheilded by 3 layers of metal and flashing so I'm not too worried. Also, as long as the magnets arn't moving in relation to electric components, they shouldn't have any effect.

What if you put a peice of metal on the fan and positioned the magnet so it made the fan spin. If it moves enough air you could potentially have a silent(er) projector.

I'd have to put a magnet on the fan blade, and that might actually make the fan spin, but not at the required 3,000rpm to push significant air. a piece of metal on the fan would be attracted to the mag in both directions so it would be stagnant.. a mag on the fan would be drawn towards the other mag when facing one direction, and repulsed in the other orientation.

Whoops, yeah, I meant a magnet. So they would repel eachother.

Hey, that's the same thermometer I got! I like it so far! I haven't actually heard the alarm, I guess I hope I never do...

About the on/off... If you're in need of an on/off switch it would be pretty easy to add one, just cut one of the wires coming from the battery and hook a switch to it. (Careful, the wires inside that thing are very week!)

Yeah, those magnets are fun aren't they!

thats a good idea.. I definitely have a switch or two lying around

I JB Welded the metal into the frames yesterday and put the strip magnet on the fresnels. I didn't test it out though until today so I could let the weld completely dry overnight. I must say, my design works flawlessly the fresnels are securely held in place, yet easily adjusted. They will not slide without a lot of force, but its quite easy to lift up the edge to make adjustments.

one completed fresnel frame, one fresnel with self adhesive strip magnet on the back, and the roll of magnet



and all together

ok time for a HUGE update.

I haven't been able to make much progress on the PJ since I was waiting to cut out the enclosure. It rained all weekend and through the week so I didn't get it done until last night. Tonight I sanded the pieces but couldn't screw it together because I need a second hand.

hrm wait.. that wasn't huge

where did u get the jb-weld, metal and magnetic strips for that because I really like that idea for the fresnel mounts.

The JB-weld and metal strip bars were both from Home Depot. JB weld in the epoxy section in the paint aisle, metal strips in the hardware aisle. The strip magnets were from a local craft and decoration store called Jay-Mar. I don't think its a chain, but you might be able to find them at somewhere like Walmart.

ok thanks.

long time since an update.. I've been very busy with the kitchen remodeling and the yard.

anyway, got the enclosure screwed together.. this thing is huge. I need to make the box in a box triplet focusing mechanism, mount the threaded rods, screw on the hinges for the lid, finish wiring, mount frames, finish stripping LCD, assemble bulb mount, line up components, focus, and I'm done. wow that should only take a couple hours

front of enclosure.. checking my measurements against fresnel frames.. they fit! measure 4x, cut once, cut again, sand, and you're good



rear of the enclosure with lid resting on top. 120mm fan holes and powerswitch/dpst hole. I ran out of oak so the back is made from pine ply that I had sitting around.

man so close to getting this thing put together. I went to homedepot today to get a 2x2' piece of ply to make the focus box in a box (yea a 4x8 piece of ply wasn't large enough heh).. got home and started to make measurements and I noticed the stupid POS was warped. this won't do since the triplet needs to be as perpendicular to the center line of the PJ as possible.. so I'll return tomorrow and hopefully they'll have another piece thats straight... and maybe even square too but thats pushing it I know

so tomorrow maybe I'll get the focus box done and the wiring mostly finished.

I'll be glad to see your results, I might go with the same LCD as you. My wuxga still hasn't arrived and it's been almost 5 weeks.

What are the dimensions of your box since I plan to do the whole not cutting the Fresnels thing.

internal dimensions:

width 19.25"
height 18.75"
length 39"

length is sort of arbitrary since the focus box in a box will determine the actual length.
keep in mind my frames are 1" larger all around than the fresnels. also .5 or so inches for air gap under the frames and 2mm or so around the frames for weather stripping.

focus box in a box screwed together. sits perfectly perpendicular to the bottom of the enclosure to make sure the triplet is level in horizontal plane. need to cut hole for triplet obviously, route out enclosure and drill holes in box in a box for carriage bolts/butterfly washers to secure the box in place.

face not made from oak again since I didn't have enough and home depot never has what I want in stock.

top piece was recessed on purpose so I wouldn't have to worry about clearance

notch to clear support beam. might have to move the beam back if I still can't slide the box back far enough

Great projector…I’m thinking of building one that would be very similar. Using NeFeB magnets to secure the fresnel lenses is a novel idea, but be careful with the temperature limits for that kind of material. The exact temps vary depending on the grade of NeFeB, but many common N grades have a suggested max operating temp of around 176 F (begin to lose strength), and a curie temp of 590 F (lose all strength). It might not be applicable…but something to keep in mind. Also, for reference, samarium cobalt magnets have higher operating temps. Hope this is useful and best of luck with your pj