Well I've been a lurker on this forum for months now and I thought I'd start to contribute as I just ordered the t15 kit from ll, which should be all I need to finish my first DIY projector. My ultimate plan is to build a DIY 3d projector using 2 identical (in optical properties) linearly polarized boxes.

Actually, this isn't my first DIY projector. I built one using page magnifiers, a stripped laptop (used the whole laptop in the enclosure) and a 500w work light. Of course, the halogen light had alot of heat issues, and the projected colors were wayyy too yellowish for my tastes. It worked though, and I learned a lot! It was then that I decided to build a professional quality 3d projector, and in my research, stumbled across LL.

I've researched all the difficulties involved with DIYing a 3d projector using polarized technology and they are numerous. There are several posts on this forum detailing the problems I can expect. However I have a plan to get around all of them (I know, I know, best laid plains...)

Still I'm going to give it a go, and I'll post progress.

This project will take many months (due mostly to expense), and the first step is to build a single and simple straight through projector and see if the components I plan on using will work as I believe they should.

Got the T15 kit and pro reflector in the mail this past saturday and I've started on the straight-through projector which will proceed building of the dual setup (for 3d).

I'm keeping it simple and cheap, i.e, a standard ugly box. I'm hoping that by the time I finish this one I'll have enough experience to start work on the final project.


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Here's a shot of the tools I'm using. Yep, I'm very disorganized.
The rundown...

Fresnels - 330/330 combo. Will switch to 220/330 for the stereo projector.

Monitor - Samsung 731b (17"). I bought this monitor because it's easy to strip and is more transmissive than other models. Also, they were on sale!!! I bought two of them for the eventual stereo project. Also, I plan on only using this unit in 1280x720 widescreen as I already own a 16x9 DA-lite hi-contrast screen. Added bonus here is that by using less of the screen I can move the bulb closer (added brightness) and I can use the standard triplet (less cost).

Triplet - I'm going with a 5$ singlet from an overhead projector, FOR NOW. I realize the focus and pincushing will be pretty bad, but I don't have the money for the triplet(s) yet.

Lamp/Ballast - T15 kit from LL. I figured since I'll be driving two of these things (for the stereo project) I needed ballasts which use less juice and will burn the lamps evenly.

Reflector - Pro reflector from LL.

Heat sheild - Lexan.

Here's a shot of what will become my enclosure. This box was formerly a cheap and dirty halogen worklight projector. It was awful and really dim, and almost burned my apartment down.

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Here I am using the soak method to remove the anti-glare.

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I let it sit for 4 hours and it started to come up. I SHOULD HAVE WAITED LONGER. The anti-glare came up, but I really had to fight, and nobody told me that if you pull in sudden starts and stops you leave little lines which look like cracks on the polar. When I'd finished, I had many of these spider-like scratches. I felt pretty stupid.

The good news though is that I had to change the polarization of one of the panels anyway for the stereo projector so not all is lost. I'll just pull off both polarizers from the panel later and replace them in a different orientation.

So, I started a soak on the second panel (after stripping it). Oddly, there were a few small differences between the 731bs on the inside which is weird since I bought them at the same time from the same place. The second panel was harder to strip, but furtunately the anti-glare removal went much easier this time.

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Here you can see some of the web-like lines that I left on the damaged poler of the first panel.

Here you can see the first test I performed with the lamp on sunday. Inside the box are treaded rods for the fresnels, the empty lcd frame, and the lamp.

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Here's the box all wired up and painted for a second test. I'm using black felt to cut down on reflections.

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I'm simply using bolted washers (painted them black too) in the corners of the fresnals to hold them in place. This gives me great adjustability. Same idea for the reflector. As you can tell I like simplicity and efficiency, which is why I'm the right guy to build a stereo projector (hehe).

Here's the bulb+reflector setup I'm testing. I used heat resistant paint for the lamp area (the stuff they use on grills) hope it's enough.

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Here's a shot of the front of the box so you can see what the felt looks like.

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I was able to shoot an image (held singlet in place), and thankfully everything seems to be working as expected. I neglected to take a picture of the projected image. It was alright, but not too impressive yet. I'll save the results pictures for when I have something worth showing. I still have lots of work to do (frame for singlet, lightgate, heat shield, cooling, light leaks), but I'm pretty satisfied for three days work. I should be up and running by friday.

I'll start talking about my plans for the stereo projector after I finish and test this one. I'm pretty worn out now though (I can be somewhat obssessive with projects, which is why I'm getting through this first stage pretty fast).

Yeah, that was pretty quick. Looking good, if not a little incomplete, so far.

I was wondering, where did you get the black felt and what did it cost?? I think I may use black felt after the LCD aswell, seems pretty absorbant.

Dave

I had the material around from when I bordered my screen with it. I don't remember exactly where I bought it but you can usually get it at any sewing materials shop. It was pretty expensive though, like $2 a square foot if I remember correctly.

How works a 3D diy proyector?
Thank you.

Well ed, that may be a mute point. I pretty much got everything finished and I'm dissapointed with the brightness I'm achieving. I have x,y,z adjustability for the fresnals, triplet, and reflector and I tried all sorts of configurations, but I'm just not getting satisfactory brightness. My ultimate plan was to strip and repolarize the panals in two enclosures to achieve a stereo 3d, but with results so dim, I'm thinking the polarizing film in the glasses I would design would make the image almost unwatchable.

I'm hoping it's the singlet I'm using, though it's focal point is pretty close to the 330 fresnals. I'm going to buy the standard triplet and 220 and see how that helps matters. Maybe I got a bum bulb??

Anyway, I have a few light leak and cooling matters to contend with, then I'll post my results in a few days. I'm a sad panda.

Hi llamameat.

What I asked to you is that means 3D projector? How work? What obtains?

Thank you.

Sounds to me that he's going to pretty much build 2 DIY projectors and aim them both at the same screen. By using different polorizors he'll be able to then make "3D glasses" with matching polorizors so that each eye will only be able to see the image from one of the projectors. (I've heard they have theaters like this at Disneyland and other places like that.)

Once he had the 3D projector running he could play games in 3D, or watch 3D movied (which I suppose would be hard to come by). The 3D effect would be very real looking, and by using polorization the colors would stay true. If it can be done, it would be completely awesome!

I take it you'll then play computer games primarially on this? What about doing a sort of more standard red/blue 3D effect? The glasses wouldn't block as much light and the projection would be brighter because each eye would be able to see the light from both projectors.

Thank you.

Hirudim, you pretty much guessed my plan. I'm going to get around the light loss by repolarizing one of the panels and changing it's orientation instead of repolarizing after the lcd. So the only lumens lost will be from the glasses themselves, but with a properly utilized 400w lamp for each eye, it should still look pretty bright.

If repolarizing changes the contrast/brightness of one of the panels too much, I may have to repolarize the other panel with the same film to keep both projector's images identical. I'm already assuming I'll have to make my own 3d glasses as the final polarization will most likely NOT be the standard orientation that's used for passive stereo.

The 3d would only be useful for directx games using an Nvidia video card as it's the only card on the market to support stereo. I will use an SLI setup so that I can continue to use DVI rather than a dual-VGA solution.

The final stage of this project will be finding the right formula for a high-gain DIY silver-screen (silver is the required screen color to keep the light from losing it's polarization).

I'm still waiting for my triplet to show up before posting results. The singlet I'm using is god awful and the focus is embarrassing to watch. In the meantime I've done some tweaking with good results and I've ordered a 220 fresnal to help with brightness.

One thing I discovered though is that my singlet actually makes a really effective precondenser!! I don't have the tools to measure lumens at the screen, but it looked to be a 25-35% increase. It's probably not heat-treated glass though so I'm afraid it might crack, however since I'm only using the 16x9 portion of my panel, it doesn't need to be held very close to the bulb to be effective as a condenser.

Honestly, I don't know if this project will ultimately work out, but I will keep moving forward until I know for sure.

What is the benefit of using two LCDs with different polarizers, versus using the one LCD with the IR controlled shutter glasses?

It seems like making two projectors align their projections would be a real nightmare!

(just curious. anyway you do it would still be a cool project!)

I ran into a piece of info that might help you (it also might be so basic I'm insulting you by even saying it...). Anyway, it seems that cellophane changes the direction of polarized light by 90º. So you might be able to just cover one LCD with cellophane instead of repolorizing it...

BTW, I tried this with my LCD monitor and some polarized glasses, pretty cool effect!

WOW.. This sounds awesome.

Keep it up man, I'm looking foward to seeing this.

Heya all. I've spent over 9 years dealing with stereo images. Video follows the same principles. The flicker glasses don't work with a single LCD panel. For those to work, the monitor has to effectively have 2 different refresh rates, running at the same time. The flicker in each eye is synced to the flicker of one of the refresh rates. LCD panels won't allow this, to the best of my knowledge.

Not to be a nay-sayer, but I'm not sure this idea will work for movies. Reason being, for stereo to work, the image has to be captured at different angles. The optimal difference is about 3 degrees, I think. This is why on anaglyphs (red/blue 3D images/movies) you will see a bit of shadowing of each of the colors. The way it sounds, you plan to project the same movie, from both projectors. Again, since the capture isn't offset, I'm not sure that will work in stereo. I do know, however, that there are high end PC graphics cards that will render games in 3D, and from what I've heard, they work well. Maybe these cards can factor in the offset on the fly, or something. Also, there are screen mounted filters that allow the use of polarized glasses, and the effect is awesome. Another issue with the flicker glasses is that you must be in range of the IR transmitter. The range on thos is short, and the cone is narrow. The polarized glasses work from a greater distance, and only extreme angles affect them, in my experience.

Again, not trying to discourage you at all. If not for people doing "what could not be done", none of us would be here. I'm just not sure ingenuity can defeat physics. If you figure out a way, I'll be the first to congratulate you.

Best of luck!

Jay

There's no way that I know of to watch movies in 3d. I remember once there was a software company that could re-encode movies to their own format which would give a basic foreground-background depth to movies (like a viewmaster), but subtle depth is pretty much impossible right now.

dazd, the 3d will be just for gaming (and maybe stereo-photography?). However, with a mirrored desktop, both projectors could be kept running while watching a movie, which would essencially double the brightness.

I've finished version 1 of my straight through box and results are promising. I had to make many compromises because of my current budget, but I should have enough money/time to finish the 3d project properly before the year's out. I'll take some screen pictures tonight or tommorow.

The next step is to start solidifying my plan for the 3d projector. I have an idea in mind which is a modification of the frankenfresnal work. I'll make a scetch of it and get it posted this week.

I don't know how well these work, but it might be worth it to you to look into it.

Dynamic Digital Depth DVD Player with realtime digital 3D conversion (they say you can play any movie in 3D)

3DPlus 2D to 3D DVD Software different company, different product, software based for your computer.

Good luck. Fascinating project.

Tgreenwood

llama,

Cool. An uber 3D gaming PJ would ROCK, maybe too much. I know how immersive some games are in 2D. In 3D, you might just end up needing the DIY defibulator mentioned elsewhere in the forums. A friend of mine had an Asus video card back in the day that was awesome in 3D with the original UT. Again, not trying to slight anyone. But, stereo imagery isn't a knowledge that is usually common, so wanted to make sure you knew the deal.

Again, best of luck. Once you get it running, you need to figure out a way to make a 3D game movie, and post it. I bet it'll be SICK.

Later!

Finally got around to taking some pictures. First, here's the straight-through, or, the beast as I call it.

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That's what the triplet gets to see. In addition to the felt, I inverted the LCD (and reoriented through software) so that the controler and power boards could be kept out of view, cutting even more reflections. This and the anti-gare removal allowed for tremendous contrast. I owned the ae-700 previously (rated at 2000:1 contrast) and the blacks on this are much deeper, while the picture is still bright.

Here's my solution to light-leakage, while still pulling air from directly above the lamp, 90's!

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Some electrical stuffing back here.

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Here's the inside. I went finally with 330/330 fresnals with the addition of a condenser.

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That's the closeup of my ghetto light engine. The condenser is actually a plan glass precision magnifyer that I bought at radio shack for 11 bucks. This thing was great, it can hold the lens in any position and it's base is a large lead block, which basically makes it a heat sink and allows me to use the magnifying glass without cracking it.

The tin-foil was a recent decision. I figured that with all the felt and my iris in place, my setup could readily withstand some off-axis light. So I took a tip from panasonic and used tin foil (my ae-700, which I dismantled while trying to repair it, had tin foil glued around the lamp housing. I would try to salvage some of the wasted light. I was happy to discover an increase in lumens, while the contrast appeared unchanged.

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My DIY screen. That baby is a DOABLE board from home depot. The board has some gain and makes a for a great image, and only $17!! Maddness!!

Here's a shot from Charlie's Angel's

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The Island

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Total Recall

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My wife is really happy with the results. I'm pleased, though I can't help but notice where I went wrong.

First of all, I scratched the polar, though happily it's only noticed during very bright scenes. When work on the 3d projector begins, I'll look forward to replacing it.

My second mistake was the s15 triplet. Don't get me wrong, this lens performs brilliantly, though if you use a 17" panel, there is some drop-off of light in the corners. This is exaserbated by my setup because the condenser I use is a very tight fit for the 16x9 image, which also lends some dropoff to the corners. I wouldn't say my corners are dim, but they are definitely darker.

Still, the image can drop my jaw, and I don't feel I've downgraded since owning the ae-700. In fact, after much tweaking, my DIY is very close in brightness, and flat-out stomps all over the ae-700 in contrast.

I'm still tinkering with different designs for the 3d projector in my head right now, but I should have time to post a sketch of the basics pretty soon.

Haven't updated in awhile so I thought I'd post. Since I'll be building a real gamer's gaming machine, through I'd post a in-game shot of Lego Star Wars 2 running on the straight through. The picture is sharper and brighter in real life.

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Since my last post, I worked some on the corners. Turns out the condenser I'm using can withstand to be clamped very close to the bulb, this much improves things and it hasn't cracked for 2 weeks running.

Now that the my beginner's projector has reached steady state (I haven't opened it for any reason in over a week) I've been contemplating the stereo build. It took some time because I don't think DIY projectors in their current state are bright enough for 3D stereo because of the extra polar layer that must be introduced in the glasses. My straight through is certainly bright enough for regular projectrion viewing, but I had a feeling I wouldn't be satisfied when the 3D was enabled. Therefore, I need to figure out a practicle way of making a light canon out of a DIY. Here is a very quick scetch of design I will attempt to build. The parts in the left-projector tube are identicle to the parts labeled in the right.

"I don't think DIY projectors in their current state are bright enough for 3D stereo "

Are you sure about that? There are brighter lamps out there.

The screens look nice the lamp is making good color.

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It's got 2-folds in a modified frankelfresnal arrangement, and I will only be using the 16x9 part of the panels. I'm probably going to go with 2 1mm ark lamps (powerball?) and I haven't figured out what focal lengths I'll need for the condensers because I'll need different ones for the 220 fresnals and the 330s. There will be light uniformity issues to contend with, however with the two tubes both firing and one being a horizontally flipped version of the other (in light uniformity) I believe boths sides of the 16x9 screen will have equal lumens thrown. Alternatively, I can purposely misalign the 220 or 330 to get the two halfs of each lcd panel equally lit.

So I've been thinking that I'll have to maintain alot of ajustability to get everything just right, especially since I'll have to use some small lens shifting in order to get the images from the two projector tubes to converge into one onscreen.

I'll probably stick with the threaded rod and corner clamp idea that I used for the straight through in order to keep xyz adjustability for the fresnals. The triplets will be a little more tricky, since the adjustability will have to be pin-point accurate, I have a neat solution though which I'll share pretty soon.

As to whether my light engine design will work is unknown. I'd ray trace it (if I knew how), but still I'm confident enough to go forward. I couldn't say for sure how much more I can harness as compared to the standard reflector+condenser setup, or if it will even be worth it with the extra mirror/fresnals to deal with, but if I were to guess I would say I'll get a 20-30% boost from each lamp. Off access light might be more of an issue, but the felt I'm currently using in my straight through is like a black hole for that stuff, so I'm not too worried.

Does anyone know if it's possible to drive 2 150watt MH bulbs on one 400w ballast?

I'm eager to see how this 3dPJ effort goes. Good luck Llama!!!

Well you sure are fearless.

The Idea of using two LCD is new enough that I would keep the light path simple but leave room for the extra mirror

The two fl Fresnel setup might work and is in it self a brand new idea too. The only catch I see is the total fl for the 220mm and the 330mm needs to be fairly close so you will have a 100mm difference that will need to use in the fold unless you mach the fl with the condenser lens.

Then you have two condenser lenses per side. The fit will be tight. Lots of parts that have to be almost perfect.

If you can get one side working then you can do two.

I have not tried to start two lamps off one ballast. My first guess is it won't work because the igniter will see two loads and will not generate enough high voltage. The other problem is if one lamp strikes first then it is then a short and will stop the igniter from striking the second lamp.

If both lamps strike almost at the same time then 400 watt ballast could run two lamps.

There is one more thing if one lamp fails or does not start then the other lamp will get all the power and just might bite the big one.

Why not do two panels off the same lamp? Two lightpaths at ~ 90 degrees from each other utilizing the entire output of the lamp. Two of everything else, but fold the lightpaths back to the screen.

You mean 180 degrees?

Like this?
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Arizona, your right in that it all comes down to whether I can get the right condensers. That, and I agree that the two lamps on one ballast probably won't work, since if one fails to light the other might explode.

Weldon, I actually thought about doing just that, but if you're thinking of doing it the same way I've thought of, I think too much lens-shifting would be nessecary after I've folded the light path back.

I know that by using two bulbs with two panels, I'm already going to get double brightness, and that additional modifications to each light engine may seem unnessecary (or even crazy?). Bare in mind though that I will lose slightly more than 50% of my light due to the extra polarization layer in the glasses. My instincts tell me that this overly complicated design must be done if I am to achieve what I set out to do.

I've always desperately wanted true 3d gaming at home (and movies, though that doesn't look likely). I've wasted so much money on LCD shutter glasses, a sub-par 3d helmet, and even nintendo's virtual boy (anyone remember that?) to try to achieve this and I've been dissapointed many times. I don't want my 3d to be flickering, ghosting, have poor resolution or color, or be dim. For once, I have an opportunity (thanks to communities like LL) to build my dream system. If it turns out to be rediculously bright, I'll make a bigger screen

So anyway, in the next week or two I'll be ordering some replacement polarizers and testing a full polar replacement on one of the panels. I'll just have to wait and see if I can re-orient the polarization without i'll affect. If not I'll have to fall back on my plan-B, which is just to flip one of the panels backwards, and use Nvidia's "Planar" 3d mode to fix the inverted image. Either way I'm going to get those panels working....I hope

You can re-encode the film in 3D with 3DCOMBINE (www.3Dcombine.com). They use streo temporal images tecnique. TriDef media player from DDD,com makes too in REALTIME and more stable. The best player for stereo is "stereoscopic player" including dual proyector. Every Nvidia moderm card support Stereo gaming and DUALVGAoutput for stereo proyector. eDimensional soft does´nt work for dual proyectors, you need doubler sync (page flip at 50%off vertical resolution) and a VGAdemux to split each pageflip to each proyector (more than 3000 pounds at Cyviz).

Silver screen is needed:
1. buy it more than 3.000 (cyviz)
2. Silver textil fabric (may poor result)
3. Silver paint. Every metallic paint will work. (Volvo white metallic(too expensive), and some reflective paints, like security jackets, or others traffic sings will work. But always test it with a pair of linear polarized filters.

I´m planning a dual stereo proyector too, but native 16:9 (19´´LG wide 1440x900 1:2000 contrast 5ms or better any 17´´native 16:9). Nvidia G6600.

relieve3d@telefonica.net

PS: Outrun2006 in Stereo is fantastic with a MomoRacingWhell as well.

relieve, I'll have to try the 3dcombine decoder once I have my project completed. Also, thanks for the tips on the screen I'll need.


WOW..little tweaks can make a huge difference, the image on my straight-through is just getting better and better. First of all, the bulb has brightened up considerably, I used to have to drive my ae-700 in "dynamic" mode to get brightness like this, which made the colors/gamma piss poor, unlike my DIY which retains fantastic colors. Also I lined the edges of my fresnals with black tape, and this seemed to eliminate the minor "glowies" problem I had. Finally, I'm using the newest catalyst drivers, and boy did they make a difference compared to the version I was using before. I'm not sure what was wrong with the old drivers, but things are much sharper now....I suspect it was never really doing 1=1 pixel mapping with my old drivers and the samsung.

Here's a new shot from The Fellowship. I must not be using the right setting with my camera because the colors in this JPG look washed out ...it is not like this in real iife.

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My only worry now is that with the unique design for the 3d projector and the powerball lamp, I may wash out the contrast on the samsung, but I guess I'll just have to wait and see because I'll be replacing both polarizers with the high-contrast sheets and that may give me slightly more leeway. I'm really excited, if I can get results this good with my beginner's projector (with a magnifying lens condenser and the standard triplet), I can't wait to see what results I'll get with higher quality parts.

DON´T BUY THIS SOFT: 3DPlus 2D to 3D DVD Software iT´s absolutly obsolet. This program need an actualization NOW!. This soft works divinding the screen and putting haft upper one eyes and lower zone other eyes. You need hardware solution: a frecueny doubler(buy Xgamer glasses the best with frecdoubler) to see in 3D with active glasses (pageFlip) and after then need another demux to separate each page to each proyector (Cyviz 3.000,00 Pounds). In addition eDimensional don´t say this, Don´t say it will never work, don´t say that this progra is unstable, don´t sale frecuency Doubler to mix upper and lower zones at whole screen and 120Hz (Of couse CRT monitor required). eDimensional glasses support LCD but non LCD (5ms grey refresh no full screen/color refresh,LCD Doesn´t too) support it

NEW 3D TECHNIQUE, you may increase up to 40% of light than using a polar pilter for LCD and another for 3D polarization. Use only one polarizaer for all LCD and 3Dglasses at once!!!.

see details at:
http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s...15333&st=20

Also at the same page you can see a short but valious 3D SILVER SCREEN DIY (Paint).

How were they different? I managed to wreck my first 731b druring the strip...I'm not exactly sure how? I'm thinking of getting another one but I'm hesitant as I'm not sure when I managed to cause the damage. I had a hard time getting the tiny screws hollding the controller board to the metal backing and then getting the backing off from between the controller and the back light. Did you do anything special in these areas or anywhere else in the strip? cheers

So it's been some time since I've updated. My project got stalled because of lack of funds. I've learned quite a bit since my last update. I designed a new light engine idea that is different (and better) than the one I previously posted, though I don't have the components yet to test it. Might it work?? I think so, but it's also likely to be a real pain to get right...perhaps more trouble that it's worth for the extra lumens.

Also, I learned much about how fragile FCCs are (busted BOTH my 731bs while trying to replace the polar films). I learned that split fresnals do suck as much as advertised. Also, I figured out how to get the lenses out of my standard triplet for cleaning (yes it CAN be done).

My straight-through (now running with an 175g envision panel) has done great, but it's time to retire it. I almost have money I'll need, and I certainly have the determination to start on the 3d projector. By next month, I should be in full swing.

Fellow member relieve3d has made rapid progress on his 3d design and has uncovered the issues which make 3d more complex (i.e, requiring a mirror after the LCD of one of the projectors to change the polarization). If this is the case, and I believe it is, this will make for some ugly projector designs.

So anyway, here is my ugly design for my 3d projector. It uses folding and a shared triplet housing to minimize the size. Though it'll still be HUGE, it should be less monsterous than having two projectors (one vertical and one horizontal) placed in an L shape, yet still fullfill the requirements for producing passive 3d.

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Llamameat,

I'd be interested to know how you were able to get the lenses out of the standard LL triplet. Could you explain?

Cheers!

Fulcrum