Indeed I did, and let me tell ya'll, his picture is NICE. Realistic rich colors. And contrast is a non issue for me now. Was quite a suprise. I dont think Im easily pleased when it comes to matters of the home theater, audio and video but I would certainly be happy with his resaults. I was there during the day, light was spilling in from everywhere,there was enough light in the room so that you wouldnt need to turn a light on to cook for example, yet you could easily watch a sporting event or kids watch a dvd etc. Personally I prefer very minimal ambient light for films. Even with a normal tv. Was quite obvious that it would be PLENTY bright in a dim light environment.
And if that aint enough, placing your hand within a couple inches of the bulb is no different to a standard 100W house bulb. Id feel a lot safer leaving it on unattended. Would never do that with my 400W ushio.

I am not certain,,,, but think it is a para,, I had one in my hands yesterday,,, but balked at the price,,, also it is set into reflector to optimise for fibre optic collection,,, at that price,, to much to alter with..

thanks, a parabolic was my first guess, some for cheap on ebay....

If it has been designed for fibre optics then it would be a safe bet that it’s an ellipsoid.

Now I am gonna step out here,,, but upto date all the testing I have done,, leaves me with a funny conclusion, the ball lamp proved that,, with DAZZlers input too,,,

the way we use the optics and lamp is possibly the best way,,, and the reason is that we are limited by the fressies, and the groove pitch size,, with smalle rarc size the greater the need to spread the seperation of optics,,, esp. the fressies,, but that has a limit before other losses occur,, so my theorised conclusion is that mayeb 6mm arc may be the min limit, we can work with,,
back to start of point,,,, spherical reflector, combined with the correct focal length plano convex precon, of course suited to your condensor fressie and an arc vertical to the panel...

over to you DAZ,,

heheh i must be bad with shapes too, that are non female then hehehehhe

Going by the picture, it looks like the arc can be seen in the reflector so it’s not a parabolic. The only other type of reflector it could be besides an elliptical would be a hyperbolic.

DJ

whats a hyperbolic reflector?

I need a babel fish, about now,,, heheheheh

overdone parabolic = hyperbolic


I feel a diagram coming your way from the tiling department,,,, hehehe hicabolic style

A spherical is ideal for reflecting light back to a source at the centre of radius. A parabolic is ideal for reflecting light from a sourse at its FL to be collimated. A hyperbolic is ideal for reflecting light from a source at its FL so it is diverging. Ie PAR lamp, torch, car head light etc. It’s probably the most common type of reflector.

Elken, I'm all pic,ed out.

DJ

so, if it was a hyperbolic would this be able to be used in a pj? how about if it was parabolic?

Maybe.
If the beam angle matched the rear fresnel then you could just throw it in. If its angle was greater then you could use a pre-con. If it were less then you would need a negative pre-con.
If it was parabolic then you might be able to use a negative or positive lens to match the fresnel but I’m not sure on which is the best approach.

DJ

Use a pair of lenses as pictured in patent croma listed. Focus the parallel light from the reflector to a small point which should
be at the focal point of the rear fresnel. An aperture stop could also be placed at the focus point to eliminate the strange rays
coming directly from the lamp that aren't parallel.

Smaller arc = More ansi-lumens on the screen

PRICE : €30-40

The “Colour rendering indices of different metal halide lamps” is interesting. Not the different lamp parts but the “R” rating. Does anyone know how that works?

100% cri is not equal over all wavelenghts,,, this is what I have been saying all along,,, its hsowing the comparative intensities of each wavelenght,, and how the red is down,,,

this is a new speak spectral chart,,, look at it,, and it makes sense,,,

R is the rendering value for each emission so to speak

What he said. At first glance I just took it as a relative plot between the various lamps listed. Just showing off the powerballs. Did I say that? I think they could have chosen a different background for the plot.

It still makes no sense to me, apart from the resemblance to a spectral plot. CRI is measured using only 8 standard colours. What is the y axis divisions, why the colours, why the R labels?

DJ

I'd guess the plot is based on the "advanced" lamp since it touches zero. The other powerball renders better at the red index point. The other two are worse. The R labels and colors are arbitrary marketing bullshit.

Maybe I'm wrong? Probably.

What kind of a precentage drop in lumens, do you think Elken would have gotten with his 150W setup, assuming he used the Pro fresnels + Pro lens ? (instead of his short throw lenses).

I do believe that the vertical axis is CRI (yes, it appears possible to have a negative CRI value), while the horizontal axis is the fourteen test color samples. Take a look at this. It defines the 14 color samples, but indicates only 8 are typically used to calculate CRI... which 8... got me... ??

What I believe we should be doing is charting the x-y color coordinates on the CIE color diagram (even then we have a choice between 1931 and 1976 versions). The closer the point lies to the "blackbody" curve, I believe the more meaning the CRI value of a lamp holds... at least that's what I got out of it... perhaps someone other than me could straighten me out !

gs

As a professional photogapher I can tell you we are on the event horizion of a black hole as we venture further onto exactly what is CRI, and on how to interpet the data that lamp manufactures give us.

Heres one that talks about lighting sources.

http://www.colorkinetics.com/support/white...tQualityCRI.pdf

Elken,

Can you borrow an ellipsoidal reflector from Dazz and try your 1mm Xenon lamp in it?

Hi all,,

a major update here..

ANAKIN,, another Melbourne member, has ordr some new toys to play with, after we had a meeting and discussion etc.. i piggied back on his order, another fressie from 3Dlens, he also ordered the other ones as well

So what we will have is the entire LL pro fress set and the entire range of 3Dlens ones too

plus his PRO trippy lens is on its way too..

He has had the whole lot sent to my address,, as he is out more than home..

This is a major step to putting the Ceramics's,, (because also Tuesday I will have a new release G12 type lamp, which is not even listed anywhere yet )

so, now time is gonna be fun to play with, because the PRO sets are his,, so I have to work fast,, hehehehehh so many toys,,, mmmmmm

anyhow, what we will have is

650mm .5mm pitch fres ( aka 600mm )
550mm .2mm pitch fres
330mm .2mm pitch fres
220mm .5mm pitch fres
220mm .2mm pitch fres
330mm .5mm pitch fres X 2 current ones in my PJ
330mm/220mm .5mm std LL fres,, 15" type
Pro Triplet 500mm FL
std Triplet 320mm FL

2 x 6x9 precons
Fat little boy Precon
Flat Little Boy Precon

now I wish I had some 4x5 precons,, grr need to search...

and assorted bits ummm yep,,,, now the FUN begins, thank god I took a whole pile of ref photo's,, many many more than what I have posted,, all listed by experiment,,

Did you put a LUX meter on that list?

you guys rock! i love aussies!

This is the one most of us use, at least it used to be the one from what I remember.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Digital-Lux-Light-Meter...1QQcmdZViewItem

Here are some calculations regarding arc size and moire pattern produced from groove pitch.
Some assumptions: The physical thickness of the fresnel is assumed to be zero, although I think this thickness and the offset it produces may effect the actual calculated distances but comparing the calculated to empirical data should give us a reasonable estimate.

Equation used: Seperation=(Pitch/2) / ( (arcsize/2) / arc distance)
Arc distance=330mm

Arc size=25mm
Fresnel pitch=0.5mm => Seperation=6.6mm
Fresnel pitch=0.2mm => Seperation=2.64mm


Arc size=10mm
Fresnel pitch=0.5mm => Seperation=16.5mm
Fresnel pitch=0.2mm => Seperation=6.6mm

Arc size=1mm
Fresnel pitch=0.5mm => Seperation=165mm
Fresnel pitch=0.2mm => Seperation=66mm

Using a 25mm arc and 0.5mm fresnel pitch, as we generally have used, it has been seen that the two fresnels need to be separated by about 10-15mm too affectively blend the moire pattern. Now looking at the calculated result of the 25mm arc .5mm pitch, it needs to be roughly doubled. So doubling the rest of the calculated results should give us reasonable estimates of the distances required for a smaller arc. Elken may like to add his separation used for the 10mm arc as confirmation to this.

DJ

I say we take up a collection and buy clive a lux meter...... be a shame to do all that testing and not have one lux reading....

OK I'll send him mine.

DJ

really? very cool dj .. to quote Simul8r when he reached > 300 lumens with his newest bulb, "I think I just wet myself"....this will be fun....

Here is a pic from my OHP retro fit with Osram HCI-TS 150W/942 NDL PB

Click to view attachment

components:
OHP spherical reflector
Osram HCI-TS 150W/942 NDL PB with 150W electronic ballast
220 LL Pro fresnel - I think it is .2mm groove pitch - It is about 1.5 years old, scratched
550 3Dlens field fresnel - .2mm groove
- Unsplit - fresnels are touching, no gap!
LCD - CMV CT-720D
Dallmeyer Serrac 18" large format photographic lense
OHP FS mirror

Screen - blockout cloth
The projection size is 1.75m X .9m

distance from projection lense to screen: approx 3.2m

lots of light loss because the fesnels and lcd are just sitting on top of ohp box
no condenser lens yet

Darn...that looks pretty good prime !!

How do you feel it looks in person ?

Prime, how do you find the projector brightness for this screen size ?.

The brightness is quite good. Because of my thrown together setup I believe it can get better as well.
I've been using other 150W lamps for over a year now and have been wondering why everyone insisted on using 400W lamps. I nearly always watch movies in a light controlled room so 150W/250W has always been enough.

screen is 1.5 m tall
Click to view attachment


I'm really happy with this lamp. I've tried alot of different lamps. Here are some of them:
Click to view attachment
Osram HQI-TS 400W/D
some noname 150W
HQI-T 150W 4200K
UHP 250W lamps 3-4 mm arc (from China)

also have (Not shown in pic)
HMI 575W (It is in a Dukane 670 OHP)
HMI 300W (china copy, not the same as the UHP above)


I agree with Elken. The ceramic is my favourite so far.
Low heat, High CRI, shortish arc, cost/life, UV protection (My SGI now looks yellow from all the UV over the past 1.5 years)

Prime, the fact that you can almost *triple* the amount of screen brightness by going with a 2.8 gain screen, just boggles the mind.

I mean, no matter what you will do, align the optics better, seal things better, use a precon, etc. you will *never* triple your brightness (unless your name is supraguy).

Of course according to how you describe things are now, a 2.8 gain screen will be *way* brighter than what you feel comfortable with.

I've always considered the 400W lamp to be a dangerous destructive inferno, and I'm so glad we have this 150W option now, it makes the entire project so much cooler.

So if a 400 watt is a inferno then what is a 1200 watt ?Fusion? And If I turned on the 2000 watt lamp would you RUN!

I really like the way the 150 ceramic looks but it is not any where as bright as any 400 watt lamp and a condenser lens setup. It really does look like it has the best color of any lamp so far but still only makes 150 watts.

The HMI 575 in the picture above are the cheep China ones not the OSRAM SharkX 92 CRI 6000K 7mm arc lamps like I have. ( I have the 1200 watt ones) They look good and are bright.

I would like to see everyone use a lux meter on the screens to see what we have. Just so we rember what we have is a 100 to 150 ANSI system.

A weapon of mass destruction.

I think the creators of "24" should seriously consider using a LL pj with a 1200W lamp as a terrorist threat in the upcoming season.



Maybe so, but so far it seems that anyone who saw a 150W lamp in action (Elken, meyer2, anakin, prime) found that either: a. brightness wasn't an issue in a light controlled room with the screen size they used, or b. if it was an issue, it wasn't a serious issue (definitely not something that can't be solved by a higher gain screen).


True, up to now only meyer2 posted lux results.

Ok, I bought Philips CDM-TD 150W/942 too, and shocked with the results. You can see my results ( thousands of pictures lol ) with ALLY PTV01B, in this address ;

http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?a...t=0#entry165790

How much are you overdriving it ?.

ALLY PTV01B has 250W ballast. I think it runs at 175W...

Sorry for the confusion. The HMI 575W I have is not in the above picture in my post I was just mentioning I had one (I've edited the post). It is in a Dukane 670 OHP. It is the real deal not a cheap china copy. the HMI is a very nice lamp (extremely nice in fact) but for me it is too hot and needs way to much cooling and then there is the lamp life/cost thing as well.


Does this one look alright? http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...=ADME:B:EF:US:2

That picture of the lamps was not your stuff? I don't mean to say that the China are crap just cheep as in $40.00.( I though the two HMI’s were extra so I told some one to pm you to see if you would sell them) For that amount I don’t expect them to perform better hand a OSRAM Shar X display/optic lamp. They have some with a 96 CRI. But all of these have a short live and cost a lot. They did have a ceramic one in the picture but not in the listing.

In the long run all of the high CRI categories will go ceramic. They(OSRAM) do not want any of the pro lights lasting over a thousand hours so they will just overdrive then until the life = 1000 hours.

When the fish/aquarium people start making them they will want long life and a higher color temp. A slightly over driven 6500k 250 watt ceramic lamp driven to 350 watts and giving a 4000 hour life for $60.00
Would be great. In fact it would be better than all the current commercial PJ lamps.

The 575's do make more heat in fact a lot more, with a lumens per watt of around 70 they will make less light and more heat. They will still be sharp and a lot brighter.

Nice lux meter too.

The lamps in the pic are my stuff. The bottom 2 lamps are the $40 ones from China (from YWH). They are 250W but run at unusal voltage/current which is not compatible with standard MH ballast.
The HMI is not in the pic.

I'll try to do an unscientific, side by side comparison of 150W Ceramic and HMI 575W. Not really a fair fight but might be interesting. Better start my own plog

Prime,

How did the 250W short arc lamps from YWH perform?

Elken2004,

Where did you get those lamp contacts? The "Recessed Single Contacts" or "RX7s"?

out of a photo copier,,, heater lamp and scanning lamp contactors

Looks like you might be able to use the contacts, from a Halogen torche lamp possibly.