Sorry for repeat:
Amazing!
What is the ballast that you use with the 150W lamp?
How do you make that works at 250W? Any risk?
This is a new window that opens for us. I was going to buy a LL lamp kit, but I think that I wait a bit more.
Good work.

Thank you.

std 150 watt magnetic ballast,,, have not tried a 250 watt ballast unknown at this stage..

hhmmmmmm interesting,,, unless the formula's for this are different, the fresenels seem to make this 1 mm arc an abstract failure,,, heheheh not defeated,, new thinking needed,,, however the brightness is there,, just other problems due to the sharpness of source light,,,,

Unsplit 330mm x 330mm first pic

second 220mm x 330mm std LL fressies split, but with 330mm resting right ontop of lcd,, but reasonbally aligned

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

when you say standard magnetic ballast, do you mena one with an ignitor or not?
wonder how one of those fiber optic faceplates would do with this setup?

yes it has an ignitor,,,
yes I wonder too about that,, so many choices and things to try ,,,grrrrrrr

This maybe a funny conclusion,,, but maybe with the use of the type of fressies we use there actually may be a min size arc for best result factor here,,because unless I rethink this optical arrangment,, the near single point source does not work ,,, heheheheh what an irony

Elken:
1)What do you think about that?
http://cgi.ebay.es/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt...A%3AIT&rd=1
I think that is the same that yours, isn't?
Greetings.


EDIT:
2)Look in this link, the "Complete set 150W RX7"
http://izzotek.com/achat/index.php?catid=39
It's seems that yours? (I'm refer similar ballast, ignitor, because the lamp isn't the same) If it's similar than yours (instead buying a new lamp) IT'S SO CHEAP with the same results than LL KIT 400W. More than 60% less.
If I choose in the same shop only the components without lamp: (please, check if the ballast+condensor+ignitor+mogul are correct or compatible with your settings)
ERC Ignitor 35/400W 9,09 €
ERC Ballast HID 90 150W 16,03 €
holder (mogul) 21SQ150 - RX7s 4,78 €
COMAR Condensator MFE250-20 3,11 €
TOTAL 33,01 €
Plus the lamp above: 18,23 € (I don't know if the lamp is correct).
TOTAL WITH LAMP 51,24 € ---> $65.36 (it's so cheap versus $199 with similar performance).

Please, I'm very interested, because is probably that I purchase them (if that I said is correct).
Thank you.

sorry guys progress came to an abrupt halt tonight due to a guy drunk driver taking out a power pole,,,, twas sent back to dark ages for quite a period,,, twas chance to do like cavemen,,go out and admire the stars hehhehe , and there was mars bigger than ever...

dont go to barsoom! its dangerous there!

Elke, when you can, please, ask the questions.
And sorry for the inconveniences.

Elken that’s definitely moire pattern. It also has chromatic aberration showing through the moire. If you can you may be able to reduce it by increasing the distance between the fresnels. If I get a chance I’ll ray trace the 1mm arc and estimate the distance it will need to be.

DJ

Ok for a 330mm FL rear fresnel you will need at the bare minimum 80mm separation but 100mm would be a safer bet. BTW I calculated this for arc size only so the chromatic aberration may require more (not sure?) I used .5mm as the fresnel pitch so if a finer pitch was used the distance could be reduced. Also as I said offsetting the reflector may help as well.

DJ

Looking at this pic I would say that the larger blooms are the moire from interference between the fresnels and the smaller blooms are from the front fresnel and LCD mask interference.

DJ

Second Pic
I’ve just come home from the hospital with my daughter, 7 hrs of waiting Grrr. So I’ve had plenty of idle time to think about the brighter band of light from the pre-con projection on your ceiling. If I’m correct you should be able to measure the diameter of the light circle and it should be larger in diameter in the direction of the lamp, parallel with the fluorescent tube on the ceiling.

DJ

Edit:
You should also find that projecting a smaller circle, lamp closer to the ceiling, the difference in area between light and dark should reduce as well.

Edit 2:
In other words the banding problem would be much less when used with the actual distances when set-up in the projector.

Hope everything is ok ?

gs

Thinking about, the results here,,,

If I was using solid glass lens's,, I would get the perfect image...

I think because the arc is 1mm it is too close to the pitch of the fresnels being .5mm pitch

I possibly think we might be up against a pitch limit,,, however I am not giving up just yet

one thing observed, is that the focal lengths, and position of optics becomes very strict, in that if your fresnel is 330mm the lamp has to be within a bare few mm,, or it changes dramtically..

What do you think about my before post?

I would like to use your configuration, and for this, I ask you.
I have a pro lens kit.
What do you think about?

that second link,,, they only have G12 kit in ceramic,, ECKIT150 G12

but its temp must be 4200 or a NDL type, 942..

the ebay one seems right.. your ballast should be a 100 volt 1.9amp type

im thinking that english is not your first language but what i think your asking the kind and patient mr. elken2004 is...

will your 150w ceramic bulb will be ok with his pro kit or will he need a precondensor and what type also what ballast maybe.

but i could be wrong i normally am.



{edit}

damn you typed it out while i was translating!

Just an interesting side note

FRESNELS cleaning the smooth side

I just used brasso metal polish,, with tissues,

I rubbed fairly firmly with wetted Brasso and rubbed all over fressie,, allowed to dry a bit then using clean tissues rubbed all the brasso off

no harm no foul to the fressie,, even took off some scuffs,, and its silky smooth now...

She’s fine, thanks for your concern. Kids eyes and sticks don’t really mix.
DJ

Aside from the moire that you and DAZZ are trying to figure out, based on your visual observation between the two is the brightness from this 1mm arc apparent compared to the CDM 150 or less?

BTW DAZZ, glad to hear everything is ok with your daughter.

Need some Advise regarding the 150w ceramic setup.

I have been looking at Ballasts/chokes in the uk to run the bulb and need some advise which one to get,

I have seen ballast cost form £30 - £100

From what I read my choices are

Standard Ballast with Coil, Ignighter

or

Eballast which needs no other parts.

I have also seen a Eballast by Phillips

HID-PrimaVision 150 /S MH/CDM 220-240V 50/60Hz
Rated Ballast-Lamp Power 150
Rated Lamptype MH/CDM
Line Voltage[V ] 220-240V
Line Frequency[Hz ] 50/60Hz

Features and Benefits:
Eliminates all visible lamp flicker
Reduction in colour differences from lamp and initial lumen spread
No hum
Independent of mains-voltage
Lamp life increased by up to 50% (MH) or up to 30% (CDM)
Simple installation and cabling, cage clamp terminals

Would this be the very best ballast for the CDM-TD 150 watt bulbs or should I get a cheap one for now and wait for the 250w ceramic bulbs?

Ok now with some new knowledge thanx to ballie lampie

new setup,, yet again

and yes back to the 150 watt CDM,,

Click to view attachment

again diffe angle

Click to view attachment

now tell these aren't good contrast shots,,, even better than before ballie tests

Click to view attachment


Click to view attachment

Now I have tidied up the beastie,, IE plugged all the giant air leaks, and now light engine chamber runs at 26 degrees C,, and the LCD runs at 25 degrees C,, much improved

Click to view attachment

here is another darkish scene,,

Click to view attachment


and aslso dont forget this is a screen that is eight feet wide too,,

To everyone who ask about ballasts for these lamps,,,

well to remind the spec is 100 volt and 1.9 amps,, if the ballast has those values ok go for it,,, I have forgotten which one I have,, It is detailed early in this thread... dont know which post but pics are in it too..


Now to also remind,,,, I am using a reflector and a precon,,,, to get results,,,, this must not be forgotten if you decide to follow,,,

First, sorry for my poor english and second, sorry for my ignorance.
When you talk about 100 volt, what do you want to say? Volts in? or out? Because in Europe the 240volt (instead for example USA, that have 120volt). I think that you refer out... (but I don't know).

Other think, in the kit that you say, the ballast, ignitor, etc (except the bulb) are the same, in the ceramic kit, and the other kit.
http://izzotek.com/achat/index.php?catid=39

I didn't found any ballast that you say.

Somebody can say to me where is a glossary of light bulbs terms? HID, CDM, NDL, G12...

And Elken, with LL PRO LENS KIT, will works better? or not?

Thank you for your patient and sorry for the inconveniences.

The lamp needs to be supplied with 100V at 1.9A from the ballast. The ballast you need to be compatible with the local AC supply.

DJ

Dankeschön.

and yes PRO len's set should be fine...

I've been following this thread silently, since I have nothing to contribute but I've learnt quite alot.

I am confused about your set up, I thought at one point during the tests you switched to a 220/630 setup, the last pictures are from 330/330 setup with the LL lens.

I am curios beause I am purchasing my parts right now, I got a 22" EFL lens and 220/630 fresnels. I was about to buy the 400w osram, but then I saw this thread and I thought I'd wait a while. It'll take a while for me gather / have shipped all my parts. I am still looking for an LCD (17")

did you ever try this lamp with a long throw set up and 17" ? I am thinking it would be ok since my image size is going to be somewhat smaller than yours, but again mine will be a 17" setup. I think I'll definately need a precon and reflector

Also what kind of a screen are you using ? is it blackout or the real thing (purchsed projector screen) ?

thanks for the great reading

good work on all this elken...been ruminating upn this for a while, though I don't have much time to do more than read

just runningn some numbers(as is my Roxian wont) and here goes, lets say you have 100 lumens on the screen(meyer2 got 83 with a very similar setup and lets say your improvements have boosted your total) figuring 75% transmittance for the triplet(soembody calced that once), that gives you about 130 lumens on the triplet side of the lcd, figuring you have a 6% trans. lcd that gives you in the vicinity of about 2000 lumens on the lamp side of the lcd, and even if your lcd was 4%, at best you're getting 2500-3000 lumens on the lamp side of the lcd...did I read that this was a 12000 lumen lamp? you can see that you're probably only using at best25% of the total lumens(I think that the average best from all the measurements I've seen is 15-20% of a bulbs total lumens-using the pro ref.).... with a correctly designed elliptical , couldn't this be increased by a rather large amount?
Dazz/AV: does an elliptical reflector increase the virtual arc image at F2?(not sure if its a virtual arc image but I think you can figure out what I mean?, well, the bright spot at F2 anyway)... which might mitigate some of the advantages of the short arc .... using the g12 version of this bulb and an elliptical, with possibly one of the fiber optic faceplates mentioned to reduce/eliminate the bulb/wire artifacts could get you well into the 200s perhaps? possibly much higher with a light recycler like the altman reflectors come with and 30% overdrive? just things I'm thinking about....
AV: what do you think about using the g12 version with the 6" altman and light recycler with the fiber optic plate to reduce artifacts? think its worth a shot? I've already got the altman and light recycler and a faceplate(though not knowing the heat tolerance of the faceplate, a hot mirror might be in order?) and I've seen some really cheap 150w hps ballasts.... whats the cheapest price anyone has seen on the cdm 150w?

edit: let me add that if anyone has the ballast and (preferably g12) bulb and a light meter I'd be willing to loan them the altman and the faceplate....

Everything you do to collect more light increases the arc image size. (Except the dual parabolic posted earlier) For a condenser lens system you will collect the most light when the condenser lens is almost touching the lamp. Then you keep shorting the FL until the light cone does not fill the rear Fresnel. This short fl will increase the arc image size.

Elkin: How large is your arc image going into the triplet?

The arc image size is the reason a more intense arc is always better. The ceramic have a more intense arc than a regular MH lamp. They are not more intense than the HMI type lamps but have longer life.


On the last page of a supper light engine thread some one posted a doc on the math to figure the size of f2 with the use of an elliptical reflector.

For a given triplet F value (or size) there will be a point where a smaller arc and a condenser system will not make any more light or become more efficient. Then you should look at an elliptical type of reflector.

The idea of a small arc lamp (it can't be too small for the same reasons that the Fresnels don't want an arc too small) and a light spreader at f2 sounds OK. The light pipe thing is only $5.00 and if you need a test lamp I have a bunch.

I still think the best elliptical reflector for our use is a non standard elliptical shape. We need a more perfect power dispersion adding a lens to an elliptical may help to fix the problem but changing the shape of the reflector should be more efficient.

The 150 watt ballast has a code of M81/E from Ventures website

Apologies for being the ultimate newb but i always thought ballasts were rated in watts not volts. I can only seems to find ballest rated in watts, 150 watts being the lowest in izzotec. Can anyone link me up to a compatiable ballest for the same lamp elken is using so I can find the equivalent in the UK or Europe.

Also are all the CDM 150watt bulbs UV free or only the philips ones?


Cheers everyone

Ballasts and bulbs are rated in Watts

Watts (power) = Voltage x Current (Amps)

The issue is that different combinations of Volts and Amps will yield the same Watts so he is giving you the specific combination to look for some bulbs work at 90V others at 120V, so you want one that outputs 100V. For some unknown reason these details are often not listed but they need to be matched between bulb and ballast to get the best performance. Most of these bulbs are used for industrial/warehouse lighting so anything that works is fine, we are looking at optimizing brightness and color and this takes a little more work. So keep looking untill you can find a good match if they don't list volts/amps you don't know if its a good match or not. I think Izzotec sells as a bulb+ballast package so hopefully the two are matched.

Thanks very much Pagercam! I have now leanrt something new for today I will now continue my search.

thanks av, I'll look at that doc, my main concern was that an elliptical would magniy the arc enough that the sharpness/contrast gain would be negated, leaving only the rgb values as a plus for this lamp.....

anyone have any idea if this is the same bulb elken that just comes with some type of reflector? doesn't look elliptical to me ,parabolic?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...mMakeTrack=true

found a pdf, doesn't add much except the dimesions with the reflector:
http://www.nam.lighting.philips.com/us/eca...ilips%20150w%22
and to answer my own question , it is the same lamp and appears to be used for fiber optics ans medical equipment..interesting

Ok this shows no matter how acurate you setting aligment of optics,, its what you cant see that gets you everytime,, as shown in these pics, even checking arc position from eyeballing at dead centre of screen,

I suspect the my FS mirror is not at 45 or is skewed and or drooping too, due to how thin it is..

you can have all your optics seemingly centred, by arc in centre of triplet,, but this does not mean you have true optical centres,, all you have done is countered the errors,, and this countering can lose you quite a bit of light,, and accuracy of spread

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Been doing some checking on alignments,, as simple as PJ not been square to screen, both horz and vert,, had to raise her by 55mm and move her 45mm horz,,, now should be able to do more accurate analysis,, cant get good results if ya baseline is crooked hehehehhe

now I should get the arc, in a true optical centre of system without skewing effects, and repeat the above plots etc,,


Dam gotta do it now,,,, grrr,, oh well till a customer calls for help guess I can play,,

squared PJ to screen,, no optical aligns yet

That looks like the exact same lamp with a nice reflector to boot. I do think that the reflector plays the same role as a condenser lens in that it increases the arc image at the triplet. I asked Elkin to take a picture of his arc image at the triplet maybe some day he will.

If you look at the standard 410 watt ohp lamp and reflector it looks like the 150 in your picture. I would think they would be close to the same brightness too. The ceramic will have a much better life and color temp and be way cooler so it wins hands down. And it wont beat the HQI lamp at 550 watts either in lux but then it is only a 150 what do you expect.

Nice lamp for a standard or smaller screen size.

which side of triplet screen side or inside?

ok here is a properly processed image analysis,, image subtraction process,, to get true reading

after much adjustment I still have an issue on the left side,, only thing i hav not done is to rotate fresenel set 180 degrees,, also mirror could be problem

Click to view attachment

hmmmmm just realised my PJ has been on since 39 hrs ago,,,, no temp issues running like a baby.. watched another dvd tonight V for Vendetta
lots of nice crisp dark images,,, never felt uncomfortable watching any part,, I love the depth of contrast I have now, plus since my tweakies,,, the whole image seems to the eye even..

I have a friend who uses a wide screen plasma,, and he curses the power bills,, two young kids he has,,, damn they use 400 watts plus of power,,,

I have to say that it pleases me that this PJ of mine, uses less power than the (philips 80cm crt wide screen I have at 250 watts)

sorry there was aquestion about what i was using optics wise

for bottom to top

35mm slide projector reflector,, tiny little baby she is

CDM 150 watt,, 4200 k,, 100 volt,, 1.9 amp,, model 942

Precon flat little fatboy,, umm FL,, umm yep hehehhe

some distance away a 330mm condensor fresnel

10mm gap

330mm field fresnel

some more distance away a LL FS mirror,, heheh not perfect align,, but hey

even further away,, a std LL 62mm clear apeture 320mmFL trippy

and across the gulf of some other space,, a 8 foot by 4.5 foot screen

I knew I missed something heheheheheh,, ummm one 17 inch panel,,
denuded of her a/g,, with a corner ooops,,, signature on all my pics top RH corner... ohh that fitted 25mm after the fresnel set,, before the FSmiroor, before the trippy and other space and screen etc etc etc,, geez,, who did i forget,,, oh well


Ohhh i know what I missed,, freeloaders sitting in that big gulf of space, eating popcorn and drinking ma port, and bloody beer too,, I hid the single malt,, hehehehheeh

elken

I picked up a GE CMH150/TD/UVC/942/Rx7s bulb $64
and a SOLA E-MCA00W151 150w m-81 ballast $61 will hopefully be installing it
tonight.


Where did the "Precon flat little fatboy" come from?

Thanks