what kind of ballast would that take? says 207 volts.....

likely the same M142 that the CDM-T6 takes... I think that 207v is a mistake... take a look at this spec sheet... the lamp current is still rated at 1.8a ... I would assume that the voltage is likely ~100v or so ??

From a query to Philips.
========================================
|| Answer to Question 42111 from Philips Lighting
|| 10/31/05
||
|| http://www.feedback.lighting.philips.com/feedback/
========================================
Dear Sir,
On above date you submitted comment with ID 42111
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Question
On page 8 of this document there is a CDM/SA lamp with product code# 36039-6.

http://www.nam.lighting.philips.com/us/eca...1339c30a3285cb6

What ballast should be used with this lamp?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Philips Lighting answer:
Thank you for contacting us. The lamp operates on a M81 ballast.

The enlarger had two lens in it The short FL was curved on both sides and might have been a aspherical.

Finding a 5x5 aspherical cheep is hard. I don't know about the heat treatment.

OGO:

Are any of the condenser lens hight heat? Where are you geting them from? The larger reflectors,where are they coming from?

I know everyone likes the color of the ceramic lamp and it is one of the best ever but there are still the 250 watters that should be looked at.

I do not believe that you have to have anything less than a 20mm arc to have great contrast.

More LUX will give higher contrast not lower.

Right now my screen looks like a giant plasma screen. The colors are great and there is no blown out whites and the screen is WAY over 100 LUX.

I now believe that the contrast is controlled 95% by the LCD. The lamp color needs to be good and you don't want that nasty orange spike from the lamp.

The 250 watt ceramics should look as nice as the 150 but with a brighter picture. The 300 watt HTI will be brighter than all of them but is around $180.00.

I do hope that some one tries the larger ceramics lamps they will be all that the 150 is and brighter with no high gain screen needed.

Yes they should all be for high heat. Some are speced to be pyrex, some borosilicate. They are designed for this purpose. You can't have them if you're not a company I believe. They are samples and will be available for sale in the near future from the web if testing show they are suitable (not from me I'm not in business at all) ... The reflectors are from the same place. They are only a bit bigger than lumenlab one (90mm diameter) and have longer FL so not sure they are interesting for small bulbs.

I'll start a new thread about testing of those lenses plus the lenses and ballast I've just got : CDM 150W/942 and also an OSRAM powerball 150W/942, and electronic ballast (OSRAM powertronic PTU 150) which should be able to drive both bulbs.

Here are the specs of the lenses (in inches diam x FL) :
- aspherical 4.9 x 9.1 PYREX
- aspherical 6 x 10.7 PYREX
- 4.4 x 6.5 PCX PYREX
- 5.9 x 8.4 PCX BOROSILICATE
- 6 x 9.1 PCX BOROSILICATE
- 6 x 9.2 PCX PYREX

Will also have more news for the OSRAM 250W/942 at the end of october. My contact will perhaps be able to get them at a lower price then ....

You are THE condenser specialist here arizonavideo. 9 FL should be ok for 220mm F1, 6.5 for 330mm am I right ? Big diameter should help to accomodate all situations even if FL is not quite right ?

Not sure I will have the time to work this week-end, cause we have a sort of contest on the french forum and I have to prepare some shots

As promised a quick comparison of some general grevious

elken (CDM or OSRAM 150W i don't remembern) :


mine (HQI-TS 400W, calibrated projector at 5500°K, 2.3m base) :


commercial projector (SANYO PLV-Z4 calibrated) :


PS : just to be fair. Mine is from the 720P version of the movie, Z4 is SD, elken dunno

That is one hell of a picture Ogo!

I'm just reading your plog on allinbox, well looking at the pics really as google translator is pretty bad.

How did you go about callibrating the picture? The contrast looks fantastic.

It might not be very fair to put these pics together with elkens pics due to the different camera's used.
Also there doesn't seem to be any exif info on the z4 pic?

Simply Amazing.

For the Z4 : EOS350D, exposure 1 second, 400 ISO
Mine: Canon IXUS430 (not exactly high end), 50ISO, 0.6s exposure
It does mean nothing, different digicams ...

I explained earlier how was made the calibration in some thread. Was done with a probe (search for gretag mac beth)

I'll be able to do some comparisons when i'll put the 150W CDM in the projector. It's very hard to compare shots made with different cams and projectors ... BTW elken shot is very good, the gamma just seems to be a bit to low (or brighness too high). Could well be the digicam too

pyrex=borosilicate

OTO: great pictures.

Dazzzla is the pre condenser expert. Are you using his tool he made?

The 200mm fresnel/6x9 condenser test had a 600mm front Fresnel with a 450mm triplet and a much larger arc lamp. I don't think a pro lens and a 17" would not work.

The 6x10.7 just might work. The main problem with such a short fl is after the lamp gets less than 20mm from the condenser lens it does start to introduce a larger amount of distortion in the form of color shift and you no longer have any room for play. Move the condenser lens closer just a little bit and the lamp will need to be closer and you will get color shift, Move the condenser away and the lamp will need to be further front the condenser and the light cone will be too tight to fill the Fresnel.

So you have a choice on how highly optimize you want the condenser / Fresnel combo.

The 5.9x8.4 will give a lot of room for adjustment. For a pro lens setup you could run a 600mm or a 550mm (maybe) front Fresnel. This condenser will be vary nice for a 330mm/600mm, 17" LCD setup. The near perfect fl should be around 6" to 7" fl with a pro lens and a 330mm/600mm setup.

I have been saying for a long time that the 9" fl condensers and the pro lens could use a 550mm front Fresnel and still should cover a 17" LCD.

Nice work. You did not say what company was willing to send you the condenser lens, what might the cost be?

Yes pyrex is some brand name of borosilicate.

I found this on eBay but it doesn't seem like a Philips CDM. I've never seen one in person but I'm under the impression
the burner tube on a CDM is cylindrical, not ball shaped.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...=ADME:B:SS:US:1

personally I think these places just throw any old picture out there, though maybe this an old version of it they're selling..

The one shown seem to be an OSRAM powerball

Yep.. it's a powerball.... I've got one of those.

you mean you got one from ebay or you have a 150w powerball from somewhere else? whats the specs on it?

Sorry, I see the confusion... I'm pretty sure the eBay auction is just the wrong image, I meant That I had an actual powerball purchased from elsewhere and the photo is indeed an osram powerball, nobody else makes the ball shaped ceramic chamber other than Osram (Sylvania)

I took delivery on it yesterday.. came from Germany along with a coil & core ballast, ignitor...blah blah..
I've also got an elliptical from edmunds.. they had a 1/2 price deal on the 80mm.

Fired it up for the first time last night, but since my projector ain't finished yet, I'm just playing for the time being.

Sales bumpf is here: http://www.osram.com/pdf/service_corner/pi_hci.pdf

Thanks for your advices arizonavideo. I have seen the spreadsheet but not used it yet. I feel i'll have to build a test box for those lenses. Not easy when you live in a flat, and not good for the WAF, not good, not good

I have no info on the cost yet, not my part, i'm just testing

My Plog (sig) My bulb: 400w Ceramic...

hey, isn't that like the one Sim got a few eeeks ago too?(he got a pretty high lumen reading too) got a spectrum on that? how do you like the color? I'll check your plog out tonight...

The quality is really good.
Do you use the ffdshow with resize to play the 720P version of the movie?
What is the format of the 720P version? avi whith xvid?, x264?, divx? wmv? is hdtv?
Thank you.

so..... speaking of higher wattage ceramics etc.... exactly what are we looking for? as I see it, elkens excellent results stem from 2 factors:
1) the relative eveness of the R, G and B levels with no (or smaller than normal anyway) distracting spikes(the orange one mostly)

2) the short arc

so which of these explains what?
At what point does the arc length lose its advantage? the shortest "normal" bulb arc is the 24mm of the 400 watt ushio I think...so will 15mm be too much? could we test using an iris of some sort?

the color/cri/rgb levels can be achieved by any bulb I would think, I can't see what difference wattage would make to the chemical makeup....
any thoughts etc? does the arc length affect the color purity?

OGO the General Grievous shot was stock standard DVD SD, and yes I still have not done full calibration yet..

Ok. Your general has good skin tones LOL. Maybe some gamma tweaking to do ...

Oh and I mispelled the name of General Grievous

As soon as the CDM will be mounted in my PJ, I'll try to get again the gretag probe and do a calibration to compare it to the HQI. Maybe it will be helpful to you (not sure because of possibly different color filters on different LCD) ... Maybe also we will be able to correlate results with Dazzla "white balance" experiments. I'm quite confident a digicam can be a good tool to calibrate colors.

ed_co, this is a 720P Windows Media version (a reencode from MPEG2 I think). I'm using Media Player Classic with pixel shaders (for upscaling when necessary, and some subtle sharpening) + VMR9 renderer. MPC does a much better job than ffdshow as an upscaler

I’m not too sure on that yet. I think the arc image and triplet used, play a large role in the final contrast ratio on screen. With some recent tests I’ve done I could see an improvement of black levels by using a smaller arc. Although not visible to my eye, my camera was able to see individual black pixels. Unfortunately I can’t find the photo.

DJ

ogo - you convinced me...your results (middle pic) are stunning!

what are you using for hardware (LCD, lenses, reflector,etc.)?...(sorry if you posted it long ago.... )

Edit: Read through your posts. Please correct me if any of this is wrong. You have a 17" folded design using a modified PRO triplet, a 90mm precondenser, a LumenLab PRO or a very "interesting" cylindrical reflector, and a 2.8 gain screen. But I don't know what you are using for an LCD?

Was the Z4 image taken on the same screen? If not, then it might appear brighter on your screen.

Here is my subjective summary of the three comparison images:

1. Elken's image looks good, but seems somewhat flat, washed out, and lacking in color depth.

3. The Z4 image looks "deeper" and more three-dimensional with better color, but not as bright - yet still just a little bit "flat" to my eyes.

2. Your image looks fantastic! It is has better brightness, color, and contrast depth - more "three-dimensional" to my eyes. Your image makes General Grievous look like he was in fact a real...er, person/thing - that he really existed and wasn't a computer-generated animation.

Now some might say the third image from the Z4 looks better. That's why these are subjective evaluations. And I realize that a lot of differences could be due to the digital cameras and their settings, even the steadiness of the photographer.

But I think you should take credit for much of your excellent results. I found your cylindrical reflector very interesting due to the large degree of "wrap" around the lamp. I wonder how this would compare to a mirrored spherical reflector? To be honest I was disappointed somewhat with the PRO reflector I received. It seemed too transparent - as if the mirrored coating was much too thin in some areas. I would rather see a true mirror than just a partial reflector. Good intentions with that product - but it may need some more improvements/ fine-tuning.

Here are the HCI colours and girl composites.


Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment

And the HQI
Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment

ISO 320 WB=Daylight and Lux data
Click to view attachment

I have all the originals so if anyone wants a particular photo just ask.

DJ

Here’s a comparison of just the colours. WB. HCI ISO=320, HQI ISO=100

Some of the difference in the pics is the colour RGB values. elken's pic looks bone white but if you use Irfanview and edit the values you can easily get the pictures to look much closer to yours. I tried various values, ie... used + (5 to 13) on the RED and - values on the Green and Blue from -5 to -8 and compared the colour to your image until the colour part of it was very close. I don't know if this is a fair way of doing it.

I didn't touch the brightness or contrast because I was just trying to see if the biggest difference was actually more because of the colour temperature of the lamp.

What lamp did you use? Also did you max out the crt contrast and brightness or did you pull back on the brightness on the crt controls in your setup.

I ignored the Z4 because to get a picture like that I had to adjust the RGB similar to above and then almost max out the contrast. To me the posted Z4 image as shown is well over normal contrast. I am sure in dark scenes very little detail would show with that commercial unit calibrated the way it is.

btw) Another thing I noticed is that there is some detail in elken's image on the right hand side which is not showing in the other 2. Too bad that a more detailed picture wasn't used for the comparison. Playing with the RGB to approximate the same colour doesn't explain everything but it does make the differences a lot less striking.

Thanks a lot for your great work Dazzla, now it's time to analyse those pics ...

Z4 pics come from another forum dedicated to commercial projectors calibration probably on 1 gain screen. Some mad guys here too, LOL

Those pics were not to start a debat. They just show DIY can produce quite good pictures compared to commercial ones ... Indeed elken pic is very good and has lot of detail. Gamma could be better but he already know it. Saturation is very subjective to judge because of different digicams.

My LCD is a Sharp LL172 (Hydis 12ms panel HT17E13)

Reflector is lumenlab one. Cylidrincal did gave less good results (15-20% less lumens) but is interesting to try

Just did a quick test of the CDM 150W + POWERTRONIC ballast : dropped it in the lightbox without any other change. Setup was 90mm condenser + LL reflector.
- Picture is very very sharp. Every single dust on fresnel shows up This is good !
- Mesured contrast at the triplet with the luxmeter is the same that the 400W, but it seemed more contrasty on screen
- Bulb seem to make 45% more lumens per watt than the HQI (got 100 lumens with CDM @ 150W, 180 with HQI @ 400W). Take this with a pince of salt it can mean nothing
- Could not check blacks (my room is not black right now)
- Bulb make stronger reds than the HQI
- Bulb has weak blues just like the HQI. Must wait for bulb to settle in maybe, but this was a little disappointment.

elken is the sweat spot for the distances hard to find on your setup ? Is there a point where everything is much better ? Is the margin in centimeters ? millimeters ? How is your blue ?

Edit: here is a comparison

HQI 400W calibrated, manual white balance (on PJ white)


CDM 150W uncalibrated, auto white balance


Hard to tell isn't it ?

now that is a pealer....

hey elken, heres a question, re the sharpness issue..... will it make any difference the size of the lcd in relation to the arc length? will sharpness decrease as the lcd gets bigger?

now for a further education on correct rgb and true. whites and why what is why etc..

moire

hey gs what does the third line below mean? is that the ummm... ignitor voltage? does look like about 100 volts doesn't it?:
Rated Lamp Current: 1.8 A (Sine Wave AC)
Maximum Lamp Current: 2.5 A
Minimum Ignition Supply Voltage: 207 OCV

more,,, explainations to follow soon

I think ogo's new CDM 150w photo is even better than the 400W HQI...seems to have even more depth and detail, if that was possible.

and elken's shots sure seem to have excellent color saturation to them...

Sorry elken...I interrupted your explanation

moreeeeee

mmmmmmm, a woman interuppted,, i lost the plot.....

I’ll get off the phone with Elken so he can post an explanation.
DJ

mmmmmmmmmmmm,,, ummmmmmm

ok,,,, ummmm now where the hell dont I start,, yep ummm,

ok we all have our desktop with windows ala natural colouir scheme,, adjustable by either your panels settings,,, WHICH ONLY GIVE A GAIN ADJUSTMENT.. or something like NVIDIA or ATI etc.. but these are very limited,, however we seem to think we have a pure white to black scale,,, well guess what we dont !!!

but this is not a problem,, because it does not matter, in windows just so long as it does not look horrible or bloomy etc..

The real issue is in our overlays, such as video playback etc.....

this is a whole different animal, and completely seperate to windows desktop.. more etc etc and so forth..

so you have your desktop looking good,,, well now you need to get your OVERLAY working CORRECT...

this is where the real fun begins,,, OGO understands, this I can see..

now everyone goes on about this lamp or that lamp etc ,, heheh sorry etc's are theme,,,

wether it be a 4000k or maybe tops 8000k,,, it dont matter,, you can adjsut the temp of your OVERLAY to suit, you can take a image supplied by a 4k light source and make it look like a 10k light source,,

now FFDSHOW is one animal.. it has the ablility of GAIN & OFFSET, in a fair number of its adjustments

what I have posted previously is an example of a 4k lamp, showing on the left hand side ala natural lamp feed,, with panel as per settings,, unchanged from all my previous, suppossedly good looking shots

to a corrected right hand side,,,,,,,,, hmmmmm you may think I have boosted the red,,,,

BUT NO !!! it is as per as was...... its just because they are split screen that they look so different....

so where is the real truths,,,, and ohhhh PS that is only the red that has been adjusted,,,, I have yet to use the full power od Digital Video Essentials,,, dvd professional adjsutments......

you see the problem is that you need a program or referenece shot that works within your OVERLAY,, not at windows level,, IE such as the LeeLou test image... that does not show what is happening within your TV or DVD player, and never will....

so till you actually have a reference image within your OVERLAY window,, we would all be pokings holes in the dark forever,,,..

Now once you have all things in balance,, then you really start hitting upon the COMMERCIAL PJ zone..

And dont get me wrong,,, I am still amazed how damn well a 150 watter performs,,,

and I will never turn away from the DARK SIDE ever heheheheh

Ok DAZZIE,, are ya happy now,,,, I poked a hole in the fabric,,,, yet again hehehehhehehe

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I forgot the most important factor.,,, its the total reason and utterly most important factor too.....

nah tomorrow will do,,,


edit::::::::::::::::: I will let others ponder on images,, and observer,,, now thats said with a smile,, and kinda lovey,,,,

Gawd Daz what you said early is still disturbing,,, yulkkkkkkkk,,

leave the soap where it lies too,,, tis much safer,,, and dont talk to others in checkout que either,,, especially in my coles where ya made the dash last sunday heheheheheheheh,,, blondes here have a habit of striking convo's,,,, while ya in a hurry,,,,,, timing hehehehhehe

There are three types of video renderers on Windows platform :
- "Overlay" : this one appeared a long time ago (10 years maybe), when first accelerated video card appeared on the market. They had the ability to share a "window" in their video memory for the cpu to write directly into. As overlay works in "harware" it is not sensitive to settings you make on the windows desktop in the video card panel. Overlay mode is still widely supported in video players but is now outdated because of many limitations : levels in 16-235 range instead of 0-255, bad video scaling which relies on hardware that does not always make it well
- "VMR7" or "Video Mixing Renderer" : this one was about to replace "Overlay" and was introduced in XP (If I remember well). It uses DirectX capabililities of the video card, and allow 0-255 range, and good video scaling.
- "VMR9" : this one came with DirectX 9 (If I remember ...). It uses Direct3D capabilities of the videocard to make rendering and video scaling and de-interlacing. This is by far the best renderer you can use. Some players like "Media Player Classic" or KPlayer in conjuction with VMR9 can make even more : use the pixel shader of the rendering engine of the video card to upscale video (with the best quality you can get), or apply filters (like sharpening). However VMR9 requires e DirectX9 compatible videocard to allow all those capabilities ...

So elken, I suggest you not to use Overlay for video playback, but to look at VMR9 + pixel shaders. ffdshow is of no use with VMR9 + piexel shaders. And ffdshow interfere with "hardware playback acceleration" such as hardware deinterlacing of the recent videocards. For example nvidia make a very goof (if not the best) MPEG2 decoder + hardware deinterlacer called purevideo which you can't use fully if ffdshow is in the renderline pipeline. Trust me I have quite good knowledge of all DirectShow stuff

No about all corrections you can make with ffdshow, videocard panel, or even menus on your LCD, they are all the same, and all will in the end degrade the range of colors your LCD will be able to display.
Let me explain : all LCD panels have numeric interfaces which receive data in RGB in 0-255 range. Now on the panel you connect a controller board with VGA and/or DVI input that convert the PC to the panel. Every setting you change on the panel like contrast, RGB balance will end up in not using the full 0-255 range of colors. For example if you lessen the green by 10% you will use the 0-230 range of the green instead of 0-255 and you will loose 10% of the displayable colors and some contrast. This is the only way the controller board have to control the saturation of colors. This is the same for luminosity setting, except when the controller use backlight modulation to increase/decrease luminosity. Now at the other end on the PC, this is just the same. If you alter gamme, or contrast, or whatever you want you end up diminishing the range of color (and thus the contrast !) on the panel. This is why it is crucial for us to find THE bulb which would allow us to use the LCD panel with minimal alteration of settings (IE all settings staying neutral to use the full range of contrast and color)

As i said before, my calibrated HQI can only display 9 millions of colors (this is called the gamut) because of all corrections applied. I think the CDM can be better (because of the better red), but still miss some blue

ogo - I am using an all-in-one player: PowerDVD 6 by Cyberlink. It seems to do an excellent job of scaling and video processing. When playing DVD's the software says it's using DirectX VA and IA MMX and IA Streaming SIMD Ext.

Any idea how this compares to your player and whether its performance can be improved upon?

Perhaps this question belongs within a different thread...

Edit: I'm also using a Nvidia G-Force FX 5200 based graphics card.