Maybe one of the more experienced builders here can give me some advice before I dive into this. This will be my first build. I've been researching these projectors for a couple of months, but it seems there are just so many options and ways to go about this, I think I'm confusing myself more than anything.

Here is my room layout...



Light fixtures and ceiling fan are dashed in the drawing above.
Overall room dimensions are 13'-4" x 26'-6" with a ceiling height of 8'-0".
I have a Panasonic SA-HT650 home theater system. This, and Dirct TV will be my primary inputs.
I think I've decided to build a projector that sits on the floor and doubles as a coffee table and will house all my components.

My initial plan....
I'd like to use a LCD TV for the component connections. Probably 17" based on my reading of the forums.
I'd love to fill the entire proposed projection wall (13'-4" x 8'-0") with the picture.
Pro Lens kit from LL

Does anyone have suggestions, or see any problems so far?

I'm going to use the threaded rod design for ease of adjustment.

Also, if you know of some similar builds/PLOGs that I can look at for ideas that would be great. I've already looked at a bunch, but like I said I'm starting to confuse myself.

I'm really having trouble deciding on a TV.

This was what I was looking at... Samsung 710MP 17" 1280 x 1024 / 600:1 Contrast Ratio / 25ms / PC Input / Silver LCD Monitor with TV Tuner... but it is no longer available at tigerdirect.com.

Is this a good choice?

What is the best 17" LCD TV under $300?? And I'd like to get the contrast ratio up and the response time down. I'm pretty greedy.

Would it be better to just get a 17" monitor and use a convertor box to get a component signal to it?

I'd like to make a decision on the LCD this weekend and start ordering/buying parts.

My completion goal is football season!!

Thanks for your help.

One simple comment for starters. At least one member used three rods in an isoceles triangle arrangment instead of four (at the corners) and commented it lessened the hassle of setup by that much. Three points form a plane. Remember your high school geometry class?

I intend to use sprockets and ladder chain for adjustments. If that sounds interesting check my plog.

I see no huge problems with your initial description of things.

Things will start to gel after you've surfed the forums awhile. It takes time and I suggest not rushing if at all possible.

Best of luck!

I'm pretty good at figuaring things out and putting them togeather once I get the actual pieces in my hands.

Trying to figuare out which pieces to get and developing a basic plan is driving me crazy.

Which brings me to my next idea.



If I place my projector in the south-east corner of my room can I correct for that much keystoning??

This placement would make my build much easier.

My throw, from lens to screen, would be approx. 24'-0".

15° sticks in my head for max recommended keystone? Not sure if that's right though. Don't sound like much do it? Anyway, if that is the recommended max you're okay.

I think at that throw you're talkin' a BIG pic though. At that throw yer lookin' at over 11' high - but that's full screen. Should fit widescreen. I guess you've run the numbers through focalcalc?

Edit: When I find that bit of info I'll letcha' know if someone else don't chime in before then.

I'm playing with focalcalc II right now to see if I can even do what I just said above. But i'm having trouble figuaring it out... of course.

If you are right about 11', than I can't do it. I have 8' ceilings.

On the focalcalc.... I am planing on using the pro lens kit to get a further throw.

PRT500 Pro Triplet - does this mean 500mm???
PRF220 Pro Condenser Fresnel Lens does this mean 220 mm??
PRF650 Pro Field Fresnel Lens does this mean 650 mm??

I'm assuming it does.

Also for LCD size I guess it uses the diagonal size and calculates a diagonal image size?

EDIT: I really appreciate the help.

Takes time. I'm still learning!
Correct. Although there is evidence the 650 in reality is 600 or thereabouts.
Yes. Input your vertical LCD dimension and get your vertical projected image. Likewise for diagonal and horizontal.
That's what we get paid for! Errr . . . wait a minute!!!!! :angry:

I'm kinda with you on this...
The problem I've read with the 710MP is the 16.2 Million Colors, vs. the normal 16.7 Million
I'm not sure on the technicalities of it, I just remember it being bad...
It had something to do with the 16, 24, and 32 bit color depths...

If you are gonna do it... Do it right.. is my thought process, so I've been looking for something better.

An example of focalcalc w/17" LCD output diagonal @ 24 foot throw w/pro triplet.

20 foot diagonal!!!

Click to view attachment

Well, I got to keep the vertical dim under 8'-0" at a 5:4 ratio, (that's a regular TV ratio right, I have too many numbers floating around in my head right now) I was going to calculate based on a 7'-0" vertical height to give myself some wiggle room. So I'll only be able to get 11'-0" diagonal. But I think I'll be able to live with it.

Question... I noticed you did that calculation with the un-split frenzels. I had read on here a lot that the split frensals were better for various reasons. Today for the first time I ran across a PLOG that said that un-split was better. I had totally been planning the split frenzel set up until today and now I'm not sure. More research I guess. :angry:

Guess I need to find a TV with 16.7 Million colors. Thanks Brainlock.

"If you are gonna do it... Do it right.. "

Exactly my thinking! I want to do this as cheap as possible of course, but the perfectionist in me will not be happy if this thing is anything less than perfect.

Ya gotta split for keystone correction. If you don't need keystone correction you'll get a higher quality image from unsplit just because there's nuthin' between yer LCD and triplet.

Yep, just found that.... I knew there was a good reason I was planning split, then I read that unsplit is better and I think, "hey, I want mine to be better, why was I thinking split?"

Thanks.

If I did this correct.....



How did this guy.....

http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s...opic=8830&st=80

get a 20'-0" throw???

I guess his screen is much bigger.

I'll have to read his PLOG more when I get time.

Focusing box question.....

If my projector is going to be permanently placed is a focusing box neccesary? It seems like once I get good picture I would be able to lock everything down and be set "forever".

Yes - once it's set it's set.

Them dang imageshack images sometimes take FOREVER to load!

Anyway, he's got a 15 foot (180 inch) diagonal.

Click to view attachment

Edit: I screwed that up! But if you fix my mistake the throw is around 20 feet.

I'm aiming for a 7' high, 8'-9" wide and 11'-3" diagonal, all approximate. My throw is going to have to be at least 16'-6", because of the way my room is set up.

This seems to be impossible with a 17" lcd, which I was planning to use. If I use a 15" instead, with the prolenses, what effect will this have on my projected image?

17" lcds seem to be the size of choice from what I've read.

Also, in the foccalc program the "frensel gap" is 20 mm by default, if I lower this to 1 mm, for example, it helps me out on my image size. Any disadvantage or advantage of changing the "frensel gap"?

EDIT: Is there an easy way to print the protected guide?, instead of doing it section by section.

I'd say there are a number of options. If you intend to use an HTPC then you can control the size of your image with software. Otherwise, you'll need to limit the physical size of the LCD (15" instead of 17"). A lot of things affect ultimate quality but I don't think you need to stress over going 15" instead of 17" if you have other constraints which dictate the need for a 15". 17's are getting cheaper and that helps drive the 17" thing plus people want the higher resolution. It all depends on what you want.
You can't have the fresnel too close or the rings of the fresnel lens will project onto your screen. I'm not certain of the absolute minimum but I can say that 1 mm is almost without doubt too close.
I don't think so. That's a LOT to print though! You could save the pages for offline viewing.

If I only knew what I wanted.

This is going to be mostly for just regular TV watching. (Direct TV, not HD... yet) I have a home theater system/DVD player that I was just going to component in. Because of this I was just going to use a LCD TV. The more I read it seems that computer monitors are cheaper and have a much higher contrast ratio, so maybe it will be better to buy a comp monitor and one of these...

http://froogle.google.com/froogle_cluster?...oring=mrd&hl=en

I just have no experience with them.

I'm now thinking about going with a 15.4 WUXGA LCD. My mind changes on these things daily, if not after every thread/PLOG I read. The smaller size, (smaller than 17"), makes my needed throw/screen size possible.



I'll add a composite/VGA converter for my component (DVD)/Direct TV connections.

****I assume the 15.4 WUXGA LCD will let me "upgrade" to a high definition input in the future. Is this correct???****

Are there any problems with a regular TV signal going into 15.4 WUXGA LCD??

Here is a section of my proposed theater room. Projector in coffee table in front of couch. I'm hoping to hang the screen from the ceiling, but I'm still using the wall distance of 16'-6" in my calculations.



See any problems in my latest plan?

Things are looking good by my eye.

Sorry, but I have no experience with feeding an HD signal to an LCD. There are plenty of other experts around regarding that though and it has been and is being done.

Thanks again.

I need to take a week off work and just read these forums.

Edit: After reading up on the 15.4.... I'm back to either a 17" or 15". The 15.4 just seemed too expensive for a first build.

My head hurts.

After another lunch hour of reading, I see that this comes highly reccomended.....

VGA transcoder -> Enhanced VD-Z3 (bundle normal XBOX component cable)

http://www.vdigi.com/index.php?page=shop.f...ion=com_phpshop

So a 15" LCD and this ^^^ will get me a good DirectTV/progressive scan DVD picture??

Anyone??

I think I'm scrapping the HD thinking for my first build. I may just build my box big enough to drop a 17" in at a later time.

I'm about to just buy one of everything and start putting stuff together and plugging things in until I get what I want.

Too many choices/decisions.

transcoders are good so long as the aspect ratio of the source is equal to the apect ratio of the panel. the problem comes when you utilize a 15" or 17" montior with a transcoder sending it a 16:9 signal... the image becomes "stretched" vertically... this is because monitors are mainly designed to run at their fixed resolutions, and not for 16:9 HDTV resolutions... unless, of course, you buy an LCD/TV, not just an LCD Monitor. Do you plan to use an HTPC ? This may simplify things a bit, otherwise you may need a combination of transcoder/scaler to get the best flexibilty and quality...

... keep reading... your mind will change at least a dozen more times... .... I remember my first week here... hardly got any sleep... it ended taking me about 3 months to get the "prototype" finished... i'm still using my "prototype" today !

the nice thing about the 15" design is that LL carries all the necessary parts in one simple package... good quality, good prices, excellent customer service... IMHO, this is certainly a good place to start...

cheers,
gs

You might want to figure out how bright your PJ image will be at the size your are planning. If I'm right if you double the size of the screen the LUX will be 1/4.
You may be looking at 25 lux or so at the screen. That will be vary dim. The room will have to be really dark to be able to see the movie.
I would go for a smaller screen and a brighter bulb. But then I ALWAYS want a brighter bulb.

I want to stay away from the HTPC. Just seems like a level of complication I want to avoid.

An LCD TV was my initial thought, because of the inputs, but computer monitors are cheaper and more widely used here so I thought it would make for an easier build. The vdigi seemed like an easy way to get component in. All I really care about at this point is getting a TV and component IN, in the easiest way. My HD thoughts have been put on hold for now, because, again that seems like the "next level". I don't mind the black bars I get at the top and bottom of my TV scene when watching widescreen DVDs, so I'm sure I won't mind them on a 11' screen.

Now the room is a basement room, so it is usually pretty dark. I have thought also about adding an extra layer of curtains to the 2 small windows and the sliding glass door, (which is directly behind the couch), to cut down on light. The door leads to steps going up to a cover patio, so no direct sun light ever hits the windows.

I was planning on using LLs light kit...

https://secure.lumenlab.com/shop/product.php?id=44

(Just noticed they are out of stock, but I can just use something similar, if it will work.)

I do realize I may need to upgrade my brightness but that is on down the line. My main concern now is getting the right LCD and getting the input I want to it.

My screen size (approx. 11') and throw (approx. 16') are pretty set because of the way the room is set up. If I'm trying to do something impossible let me know. I can always move my screen closer, but that would mean losing usable space within the room, which I don't want to do. The actual position of the projector on the floor is set because it will be a coffee table in the center of a sectional couch. And the couch can't move closer because it will block the door way into the room.

90% of my TV watching is at night anyway.... but the main reason for my build will be saturday afternoon college football . I was hoping any potential lighting issues that would come up I could handle later.

What do you guys think of this LCD, and using the vdigi with it??

Hanns·G HU171D / 17" / 12ms / SXGA 1280 x 1024 / DVI / LCD Monitor with eTrust ISS 2006 Bundle

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/se...N&CMP=KNC-GOOGL

I wish the 450:1 contrast was better, but I'm learning nothing is perfect. Considering my long throw of 16', what specs of the LCD should I not give in on?

I'm thinking I should jump on this price, but I'm trying to be patient.

Thanks.

Or this one...

Dell 1704FPTt 17" TFT LCD Flat Panel Monitor

http://www.catalinacomputeroutlet.com/cata...C=174&S=896&P=G

Well, I'm still trying to decide on an LCD. I'm either going to with.....

17" monitor - advantage - price, and in my case, future HD. Disadvantage - I need component inputs, screen size may be too big for my situation.
15" LCD TV - advantage - all the inputs I need, and keeps my screen size down. Disadvantage - price.
15.4" - advantage - price, possibly free. Disadvantage - The needed "controller", I haven't researched this alot yet, but this seems like a level of complication I don't want right now. Is this a PC only thing?

So I'm leaning toward the 17" monitor with a vdigi, and I'll cross the screen size bridge when I come to it.

Does anyone have the overall dimensions of a stripped 17" LCD? Or a 15" and 15.4" for that matter.

I'm trying to get a head start designing my box and frames, and can't seem to find any stripped dimensions.

I'm not cutting anything until I actually get the pieces, I just want to be ready to go when I get them.

Thanks.

I am running a Samsung syncmaster 151MP in pj1, I like this monitor because of all the inputs it has, VGA, S-Video, RCA, RGB, and a tv tuner. it has a remote and strips easy with no ffc's.
Like you I use it mostly for tv. I have my Directv/tivo, x-box, Voom digital off air tuner, and DVD/VCR hooked up to it. if I hooked up the computer to it I could do PIP. it has settings for 16:9 and 4:3 I am quite happy with the performance. I believe they make a 17" model the 171MP. I also have a Samsung Syncmaster 152MP but I cant bring myself to taking it off my desk and stripping it for another pj, I like it too much, it also has PIP so I can surf and watch tv at the same time. this model is HD ready which is why I bought it. check e-bay for it. thats where I got both of mine. The 172MP is a 17" that is HD ready.
keystone: if you have to tilt your pj more than 15 degrees you can always make your screen tilt to offset the trapazoid effect. same thing if you have your pj offset in a corner of the room, as long as the screen is even with your pj.

Thanks for your help.

I'm now 99% sure I'm going with this TV.... Magnavox 15MF605T 15" LCD TV.

It's got everything I need and the price isn't too bad. The 15" also helps with my throw.

I've seen other people here use it, so I'll have some guides for stripping etc.

I'm really liking my table design so far. I plan on doing full blown constuction documents for it and making them available to who ever wants them. I have some interesting tweaks I'll need some opinions on very soon.

As soon as I have time I'm going to start ordering everything and start my PLOG.

My projector tilt is 10 degrees so I hope I don't have to tilt my screen.

I really, really, appreciate the input.

Thanks.

I too am 99% sure that I will be going with this LCD TV. I killed my first LCD by ripping one of the side panel connectors. It was quite dissappointing but I had already started to feel like I wished I had gone ahead and gotten an LCD with TV inputs. Have you by any chance come across the actual dimensions of the LCD? This is sort of the last piece of the puzzle for me to buy this one as well. Good Luck to you.

I'm designing around the assumption that the screen is 12"x9". Just using that to design my frames. I'm not cutting any frames until I get a stripped LCD in my hands.

I haven't had time to read this yet.....

http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7347&hl=

Maybe he lists some dimensions.

Good luck to you as well, killing a $200 LCD is my worst nightmare right now.

a 15" LCD will have almost exactly a viewable area of 12x9"... if you are designing things without LCD in hand i'd say the actual panel dimensions are about 1/8-3/16" larger all the way around, meaning the actual panel will be ~12.25-12.375 wide x 9.25-9.375" tall ... of course measuring your actual panel before cutting anything is the only way to insure you get it right the first time...

gs

I found this on mikado's page (Thanks for posting) Who is using the same panel

http://www.dorkball.net/projector/images/s.../dimensions.JPG

That's funny. I think I messed up on the picture. It seems like the 12.5 and 9.5 should be switched. I will double check to make sure I didn't mess it up in a little while after I am home.

Yep, I did mess it up for sure. I went back and changed the picture that I have at that site. So it is correct now.

No big deal. I figured that you had the numbers switch. Thanks for posting them.

Hey Zohayder.....

I was reading reviews on this LCD and ......

""Doesn't display 16:9 content in correct ratios, January 18, 2006
Reviewer: Boston Buckaroo (Massachusetts) - See all my reviews
I'm disappointed with this TV. The only way to see the entire picture from a 16:9 HD source is in the 4:3 mode, which compresses the 16:9 picture from the sides to fill the 4:3 screen. There is no option for a letterbox picture (so people don't look ridiculously fat or skinny).

I called Magnavox and they confirmed that this is the correct functioning of the television. Not exactly HD, then, is it?""

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000AB2ZD...8&s=electronics

This sucks.

I actually got online to buy this thing when I read that. I got to find a new LCD TV that actually does widescreen.

Anyone know if this review is correct? And of another LCD TV that can do actual 16:9??

DarkMeat reported no problems with this
http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s...ndpost&p=129345

I wonder why they would have the 2 different options if one did not work.

OK thanks for that link. I guess it is ok. I'm just going to go ahead and buy it and try it out for myself.

I'm going to PM DarkMeat and danthemgman about it too.

Good Luck. I should be getting mine in a few days and will be posting the teardown on my PLOG. Keeping my pinkies crossed that all goes well.