I'm opening up a computer gaming center. We have 20 highend gaming computers networked together as well as 2 x-boxes on 36" tvs. I would like to have a couple projectors, for halo tournaments and such, but I'm worried about the lighting.

Do you think that one of these would still be visible in a room with 20 monitors and 2 tvs on?

Also, do you think that with extra fans(noise is not an issue) these could be run for 8 hours a day?

thanks in advance for your input.
Caleb kraft

C4L3B,

Think of it in terms of a movie theater. You want the screen and surrounding area as dark as you can get. That said, I think that a setup like this could work in a dark section of you gaming area. If you have an area without windows and can some how section off the exterior light as much as possible then you can have one hell of a game experience. Some folks on here have run the projector with over 60W of lamp light without any major washout.

Cheers,
Lee

Add to that... use 3 projectors and the option for multiple monitors in XP and you have one HELL of a wide screen game!!!

Umm...10'+10'+10'= WOW! Use 3 angled walls and you've got surround vision!

If you do flight simulations you'd want a disclaimer for people getting sick.

X

woah! i think i'll be making 2 projectors now.

Hey guys, thanks for the input.

before I go any further, lets adress mulit monitor gaming...
It is not as easy as it sounds:
1. you have to have an NVidia video card. Ati does not support monitor spanning.(bummer because I have 20 radeon 9500 pros)

2. you have to adjust the FOV on the game.

3. If you only use 2 monitors, you will have the monitor frame in the center of the pictre (not as much of an issue with projection)

here is a really nice article about it from toms hardware
http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040216/index.html

Now, as far as the lighting goes.
There is no way to section the projector off from the rest of the facility. the only lights that are going to be on will be the monitors and some case lights. It is pretty dark in there. it is dark enough that you would have to strain a little to read a book in the middle of the room.

If these would work, I'd be building several of them.

I use mine in moderate room lighting with great success. My screen is about 9' diagonal. Shadow boxes and the proper screen can make the projection contrast much deeper.

Shadow boxes? I've heard that before in these forums, is that a reference to the black screen borders?

No it actually a black box that you build around the screen that extends toward the viewer. This helps reject off axis light that pollutes the screen.

Cool Brain, Thanks.

Caleb, err, C4L3B, I think a grey screen would help in this situation. Perhaps Brainchild could be a little more specific as to what his experience has taught him about 'proper screen' in this situation?

Brain,

While this is off topicish I am interested in the shadow box. The pic you've put there isn't very deep. I would think it would need to be much deeper than that to be effective? Can you shed a little light (pardon the pun).

Cheers,
Arkay.

Possibly the wrong picture, as from Brain's description a shadow box would be more like an enclosure?

Such as my (badly made) Photoshop pic...

I'd have to say we've stayed on topic somewhat, as the question was can it be used with moderate lighting, the design of the screen is a critical question.

Now, in regards to the second half of the original post, 8 hours a day usage? My initial thought on the matter is, well, yes, of course! No problem, especially with sufficent airflow (and due to the noise not mattering, I'd say go double hi-volume for redundancy.)

I've run mine for 12 hours at a time a couple weekends in a row now. No problems with cooling. (I used a single Arctic fan and brain's original cooling design.)

The hot restrike timeout makes me want to leave it on, since I don't want to have to wait should I change my mind shortly after shutting down...

Hey we have the lamps...run them 'til the cows come home.

Arkay, the deeper the better. Also should be flat black to eat any stray light.

Meeper, you got it.

C4L3B,

Keep us posted on how things work out with your arcade.

Cheers,
Lee

Going back to using 3 projectors. I think we touched on that in one of the posts that there is software that will divide the single image so you can send the proper image to the proper monitor to make a very large image display, or wrap around projection.

Regarding the Shadow Box issue, I'm sorry for being off topic again, but when I was on-topic with this issue, nobody seemed to care. I started a thread about it some time ago, in the screen forum. I got one response saying it is a "girl thing", the other (tony templin) asked what it is, and never bothered to check out my answer. It is interesting to see this topic come to life again here.

And while we're on this issue, Brainchild, what you showed can hardly be thought of as a "shadow box". In order for this to work and improve the ANSI contrast drastically, the depth of the box will need to be at least 2-3 feet. The more the better. Meeper's example is very good, and no, it doesn't necessarily have to be a full box, even though a full one will be better.

This thing can be built with folding sticks and black cloth (so you'll only open the sticks and put the cloth around them when you actually watch the pj), for bare to nothing. This is one of the most powerful tweaks one can do to his projected image, quality wise, and I wonder why this issue gets so little attention in a community of people striving to get more for less.

Sorry jones did not know what you were trying to talk about before in your posts? you showed no examples or anything. Just the words "shadow box", which is also used in a box which contains nic-nac's on display, hence the Girl thing comment.

It prob. was looked at differently, because of a long post you made as usual, and not direct and to the point.

In the forums I for one tend to pay more attention to the direct and to the point post instead of the long drawn out repetative versions, also illistrations help alot when trying to explainsomething you are talking about. People have different ways of looking at the same thing, its just human nature.

Joe

The screen I posted is from Draper, it's called the 'shadowbox clarion screen'.

http://www.draperinc.com/screen_pages/sbcl...tion_screen.htm

Joe,
Take a look at that thread again, surprising as it may look, I was straight and to the point.

This is exactly the point why I tend not to be on the succinct side with my posts. Being elaborate and sometimes even saying the same thing using different words, might scare some people off, but it is well worth it because the people who do read it until the end and reply, can be helpful right at their first post. I thought the term "shadow box" was widely known here, this is why I didn't bother to explain it back then, until someone asked. I guess I missed you and some other guys. You see ?.

Brainchild,
I don't care how it is advertized. You and I both know that in order to keep a big enough chunk of stray light from reaching the screen, you'll need a decent depth-of-box to screen-size ratio. What is seen in your pic is nothing but a joke on the client's expense.

Actually Jones the draper box would help somewhat, especially if the screen is mounted on a white wall.

Maybe it will help some with the front wall reflections, but why settle for such a smallish improvement ?.

In a room with white walls, I've seen the difference between a shadow box which is 1 feet deep, in comparison to a shadow box which is 3 feet deep, (this was for ~7 feet wide screen, using a friend's panasonic AE100 projector), and the difference was VERY worth it. The thought of a comparison between a 1 feet deep shadow box, to a 1 inch deep shadow box, simply puts a smile on my face. Maybe there will be somkekind of an improvement, who knows, I haven't tried it, but I can assure you it is going to be less than subtle in comparison to a 3 feet deep shadow box. Probably to the point of why bother, but I won't tell anyone not to at least try it, since it might be better than nothin.

Don't forget with those projectors you are mentioning they give off more ambiant light, meaning the light brightens the room more from the projector and will bounce off the walls, this is what happen with my sony VPL-S900, and it washed out the image somewhat just from the projector itself.

thanks for all your responces.

This has been very helpfull. I will have to get back to you guys when I finish the layout of the store to let you know whether or not I was able to use the shadowbox idea.

I'd remembered asking about shodow boxes, I'd lost track of it though.

http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s...5&hl=shadow+box

For some reason, I never spotted that thread. Must have been during my car hunting weeks, when I was slightly distracted.

I think I might try a smallish shadow box when I make mine, so that I can use the pj for general computer stuff without totally blacking out the room.

Instead of the 'Shadow Box', you could put in 'curtain tracks' and hang flat black curtains from the ceiling @ 90º from the screen and on either side of it - that would block alot of undesired light and would be easy to push out of the way.

Agreed. The only exception, in which a shallow box would be of use, is if there were 'can' lights directly overhead and shining down on the screen.

I originally planned to make a little 'stage' area to put the screen in, complete with closable curtains on the sides, and a valence on the top. The bottom of the stage would have rounded out, been about 14-18 inches tall, and house my sub, center channel, and possibly the left/right channels, although they'd have been too low for best sound.

In a way, I suppose that is the original idea behind the shadow box. NOT to have a screen with curtains sticking out from the wall on sticks, etc.

This design appears to have an awesome shadow box, and the little stage thingy I was talking about.







Whereas this one looks like it needs one with the can lights shining down on it:

Rorshach,
About your idea, but what about the ceiling reflections ?. Even though I said not going with a full box is a possibility, I meant more of what meeper's sketched. What you're proposing is a bit too forgiving for stray light (you'll get them from floor + ceiling). But I still think it is a good idea nevertheless.


Tony,
You got the whole idea wrong. (joe, I'm sorry). I'm assuming you have *no* active light source in the room except the pj, non whatsoever. The room should be pitch black when the pj is off.

When I said that the shadow box blocks stray light from the walls, from hitting the screen, I was under the impression you understand that the *only* origin of that stray light is the screen itself!.

Ideally, the path of light to your eyes should be: light from the pj projection lens, goes directly to the screen, and from there directly to your eyes. No off axis light should be allowed.


In reality, light from the pj hits that huge screen (in our situation, it is alright to neglect and say that this path is taken by all the light photons. If you have light leakage from the pj that's a different story though), but from the screen, the light doesn't just all go directly to your eyes, instead, off axis light from the screen goes to light up every wall of the entire white room. And of course the walls, by being white, do a very poor job at absorbing that light, instead, all those light photons keep jumping and bouncing from wall to wall. You get light pollution inside the room, which, like a boomerang, wash off the image on the screen.

Light pollution actually work in two negative ways:

1) Goes back from the walls to the screen and wash off the image (can you say "much reduced ANSI Contrast ratio" ?).

2) Goes from the walls directly to your eyes, making you aware of your surroundings (can you say "reduced you-are-there experience" ?).


Why do you think Cinema Theaters all over the world went through the efford to paint all the walls black ?.

The shadow box around the screen, absorb off axis light from the screen, turn it into heat, and by that not allow it to lit up the room and wash out the image on the screen. the deeper the shadow box will be, the better. Ideally it should extend until where you sit, like a black light tunnel from the screen to your eyes (not practical of course, unless you use Rorshach's idea of using curtains, and find a way to at least solve the ceiling problem).

(joe, you can look again).

That is true Jones the walls do bounce light around. since most of us well some of us do not really have areas for a theator setup we do the best we can, as far as the projector having light leakage mine does not that i know of, if you look at my present projector in the forums "Aluminum frame projector" you can see i do not have any. and also when i was talking about the projector lighting up the room it was from a commercial projector with a lot of light output, and does not have projector light leakage, it is totally sealed up, so depending on your projector it will itself produce ambiant light in the room. I do not know if you own any projectors or not? i have three commercial projectors a Sony, NEC and also an old GE the sony produced the most light in the room.

joe, no I don't own any pj (I have a rear projection tv). But I do have a few friends with pjs, and light leakage varies from very good to decent. They have mostly newer pjs though.

I know that most of you can't use a dedicated HT room, but there are still some foldable solutions for a shadow box that could be made. I think that the first step is to actually witness the advantage of a shadow box.

Ahh, it was intended to be an intermediate solution to a shadow box, not a replacement. You could always paint the ceiling and floor flat black! It would cut down on interior lights left on at night or window light during daylight operation, of course black out cloth on the windows would work best.

Rorshach,
Maybe there is a solution. You can attach two black curtains, horizontally between the two vertical curtains, one above the screen and one below. This way when you open the two vertical curtains, the two horizontal curtains will open with them, giving you a full scale, folding shadow box.

http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/screen.html

Jones, you have a RPTV? Yuck. How can you live with that nasty lenticular array? Doesn't the image degradation drive you nuts? Don't you feel like you're looking at a tv through a fresnel lens? I could bever stand them.

I think you meant to say "How could a beaver stand them"?

Did you mean this link Joe? Has a shadow box, of sorts.

http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/antireflection.html

Joe,
Those curtains do not extend forward into the room. This is not a shadow box.

Brainchild,
My RPTV is decent. The pic is only 43", so its flaws are not THAT apparent.

Tony and Jones look closely at the center bottom its the same screen you just got the better link than me. yours is after the curtains been added sorry.

just ordered the plans, lenses, lamp, ballast, and bowl. looking forward to getting this working. I'll keep you guys updated.

hopefully my customers will be pleased... lumenlab might even get some advertisement out of it.

C4L3B, welcome aboard. I'm excited to see your results.

to help eliminate wires to your dozen future projectors

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...item=5703895660

do not know if you want to do it wireless [or you might have the hardware already]

I bought from this guy before, seems good to deal with. I had trouble with a refurb adapter [for my pj] and he got me a replacement before HP-Compaq did [and I had not even sent my part back to him yet]

// eidt: I guess this only has RCA and tv-coax, so it probably would be a bad choice unless you used monitors that had tv connectivity, like the Samsung

Thats cool. Might have to pick one of those up.

nope, not going to go wireless, mounting them perminantly in the cielings and need the computer connections(higher rez).
I saw those at radioshack for 100$ might be cool in the home though.

Been lurking for a while, and finally saw a place I could contribute something!

First, I had no idea what the term shadow box meant until I read it here. I saw one in action at Costco, of all places. They were demo-ing an InFocus projector in full warehouse lighting. As expected, the image was washed out and terrible.

Two weeks later, they added a shadow box. Suddenly it was viewable and decent-looking. This was still in full lighting, but the effect of adding a little shadow to the edges and dropping off-axis lighting was significant. And no, it was not a really deep box, just a few inches out.

Conclusion: Shadow boxes work.

Also, I have used the wireless tv system. You can't use it for a dozen systems, because they all use the same public frequency. Some models can be used for a couple of different tv's simultaneously, but they can interfere with each other.

Other things that use the same frequency -- cordless phones, 802.11b Wi-Fi network cards, and microwave ovens. If any of these are used, you see interference on the tv (and hear it on the phone, and see network drop errors on the Wi-Fi.) The microwave doesn't care, it just dumps out interference.

got it finished, and I think it will work great. I wont know for sure untill I get my windows blacked out. I have tested it in my office, with the door open. I have all white walls, and it worked very well, even when it was bright enough to read confertably inthere. I"ll try to post some pictures tomorrow.


P.S. after I get it painted and mounted permenantly, I'm going to post pictures and results to a forum for game center owners.... hope it sends some business your way.

unfortunately most games as far as i know don't support multiple monitors.

Sounds great! Looking forward to the pics!

Awesome.