Table of Contents:

• LCD selection & TOC
• Monitor Strip
• Cooling ideas
• Bulb burn-in
• Light Box

I've been here in the forums for several months now, and I'm finally taking the plunge. I went to CompUSA yesterday and bought one of these:

http://www.compusa.com/products/product_in...&pfp=BROWSE

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The price is $280-$100 (in rebates) for a final cost of $180.

In case that link changes and for searchability's sake, I'll put some of the stats here too.

Norwood Micro 17" Widescreen LCD, Model No: HD17A
Resolution: 1280x768
Response: 16ms
Contrast Ratio: 400:1
Inputs: VGA and DVI

I hooked it up to my computer last night. It looks pretty good. One interesting thing is that it was detected by Windows as a MAG monitor.

One nice feature for building a projector is that it doesn't seem to have antiglare coating! Just a nice clear reflection off the face of the monitor!

I'm hoping to start stripping it this afternoon, so with a little luck, I'll be able to post the results in the compatibility list after that.

Nice monitor for the cost and yes from what i can tell some companies farm out the manufacturing of many parts. Some people bought what they thought were identical monitors only to find out the "guts" were different. Some had FFC problems and some didnt. My Dell e153fp was fine while others reported problems.
I did however mess up the Antiglare removal so i had to get a new one ....Westinghouse 15v5..which i found out has a stuck pixel... :angry: Best advice...TAKE YOUR TIME! Good Luck

I still haven't had a chance to sit down with the LCD and strip it, but I did throw together a basic optics layout based on calculations from FocalCalc and swill01's diagram. I calculated my fresnel-triplet distance based on split optics and a 13' throw.

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If anyone sees any problems or mistakes, please let me know.

I also have a (hopefully) simple question: When measuring the distance from the field fresnel to the triplet, do you measure to the middle of the triplet or one of the ends?

Pretty sure its to the rear lens of the triplet...

Correct me if Im wrong guys.

Cool. Thanks.

I stripped my monitor today, and it went super smoothly!

There is only a row of FFC's along the top edge, and there's no anti-glare coating. I think I mentioned the lack of anti-glare before, but I'm excited about it.

Here are some pictures:


Look at that clear reflection!
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Here are the inputs:
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Here's the back of the panel and the backlight:
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Just a couple more pictures:

The stripped panel:
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A nice, clear reflection from the front of the panel:
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Now I get to plan and wait for the pro lenses to arrive.

does that monitor accept 1280x720 , or does it stretch it to 768 in height?

I'm not certain about that. Before stripping it, I ran it through the DVI input from my computer, which is how I plan on playing DVDs through it, and it ran fine at 1280x768. The computer will do the job of leaving the top and bottom blank.
I also tried hooking it up to my HD cable box through the DVI input. the box was tuned to HD content, it displayed the picture for a few seconds, then went blank. I think it may not be compliant with HD content protection. When tuned to an analog channel, the monitor said that the frequency was out of range.

harmony remote huh? got one of those myself.. i love it. it even controls my air conditioner

You measure to the optical center of the triplet which is undefined but may safely be assumed to be at the geometrical center of the triplet thickness. Allow for some adjustability!

If you don't require keystone correction and do go vertical you should consider an unsplit configuration.

Looking good. Best wishes!

Yeah. It was expensive, but it's worth it, even if just for the fact that it makes it possible for my girlfriend to operate the system.


Great info! Thanks, Durachko. I'm considering an unsplit design. I'll have to figure out what my angles are going to be first.

I guess my next design decision is whether to have a split or unsplit design, and to decide that, I have to figure out whether or not I'll need keystone correction. My first reaction is to just assume I'll need keystone correction ability, just in case I need to move things later, but if I don't need it, maybe I'll just leave it out.

I guess I'll have to research how much of an angle the projector can be at before you need keystone correction.

Look into "lens shift" too. It's another method of fiddling with your projected image. For maximum "portability" I guess you kind of have to go with some keystone ability. It all depends on how you plan to use it and where.

Edit: Wiki link to lens shift.

Thanks for the link, Durachko. The info on lens shifting for keystone correction is interesting, and I'm somewhat familiar with the idea from studying large format view cameras, though I've never gotten to use one. It seems like a great way to correct keystone in a fixed installation, but in a portable design, all those movements would just be too complex.

Now I'm planning my cooling system.
My idea is to mout as much of the electronics as possible at the far end of the projector from the lamp, behind the FS mirror and also have the air intakes in that area. Then the air would flow past the FS mirror, between the rear fresnel and LCD, and through the open area between the fresnel and light box. There would be two 120mm exhaust fans: one that pulls air from the open area around the light box, and one that pulls air through the light box and out of the case via a duct. Of course the light box would have a tempered glass panel on the front of it to contain the heat as far from the fresnels and LCD as possible.
That way, all the air from both fans would cool the LCD before getting warmed up by the lamp, and then the light box would be cooled by both internal and external airflow.

This diagram's a little off because you would actually be looking at the end of the lightbox from this side of the box.
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So, as I mentioned over on Arrik's plog, I'm thinking of changing my design so that the FS mirror is after the triplet, so it's something like this:

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The main reason I'm considering it is because lately, vertical folded PJs with pro lenses seem to be having better results with the fold closer to the LCD and farther from the triplet, but that makes for a larger footprint.
I'm hoping that in addition to keeping the footprint small, putting the mirror after the serious optics will give me a clean picture because any errors introduced by the mirror won't be compounded by lenses.

Another possible advantage is that it makes the projector taller, meaning it'll have to tilt less and relieve the need for keystone correction.

Questions? Comments? Bueller? Bueller?

Hey Shaman,

Have you got a fail safe plan? I figure its a bit risky commiting to the build when we're not sure if post triplet folding will yield a focussed image. I'm thinking, maybe u could ask somebody with a straight pro build already up who has got an adjustable setup to try it out for u. Or if even if you could test it urself with some mock-build.

Just a thought, homie.

That's a good point, Arrik.

I do plan on making my light box and fresnel/panel sled using a sort of modular approach, so if things go terribly wrong, I'll at least be able to use some of my parts.

Does anyone with a straight-through Pro lens projector have a FS mirror to experiment with?

Oh, and that lcd kicks butt!! Good specs, no antiglare removal, no fcc issues..... the perfect lcd for pj's. Those guys must have had LL in mind when manufacturing. I thought my Westinghouse was perfect for it, but I had A/G removal, although can easily be done in 2.5 hours.

Is that a price anyone can get on that model? Or do you have some kind of secret coupon rebate printer at home?

It was an advertised special at CompUSA, which I think may be the only place you can buy monitors with the "Norwood Micro" label, but my computer detected it as a "MAG" monitor, so you might watch for a similar one from Mag Innovision.

I see Brain has posted that the pro lenses have arrived! Woo-hoo!

Now I'm getting stoked! I'll actually get to start building something!
...and I'm getting nervous! I'll actually have to start building something!

OK. My pro lens kit was waiting on my doorstep when I got home from work on Friday, so it's time to start swapping the happy, what-if-I-could-do-it-any-way-I-want designs for the practical, how-do-I-get-this-thing-together-so-it-works-well-and-looks-half-decent designs.

Dumb question #1: For a folded vertical projector with the mirror after the triplet, which way do I put the LCD panel?

I think I have the answer for it, but I just want to double check. I think I would set it up just like an overhead projector. If I stand with my back to the screen so the triplet projects over my shoulder, the panel should be right side up and forward to me, just like if I was writing on an OHP.

Yeahhh...Lenses.
You are correct on the lcd orientation. At least in my calculation on folds and the such. Of course I seem to be second guessing myself alot lately.

I'm finally burning in my lamp. I built a test rig:

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Fired it up:

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After 3 minutes, the color was better:

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Here's the arc after 13 minutes:

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You can still see material settled into the bottom of the envelope.

According to my temp gun, the ballast is running about 85ºF.

It's still flickering just a bit, but it should clear up, right?

The flickering should go away. The first time I fired up my new lamp and ballast I let it run for 15 hours. (give of take a couple, can't remember,lol)

that material won't go away it's the salts inside it , even if you rotate it the salts will drop to the bottom side of the envelope.

If possible let it run for quite some time. seems to help the starting of the bulb the next time.

Thanks for the comments, CS.
I let it run for four hours, and the flickering was almost gone by then.
I knew the salts are supposed to be there. I just thought that they would mostly evaporate during operation and then re-condense when shut down.

Just a couple more pictures to finish up...

Arc after 3 hours, 26 minutes:
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4 hours, 3 minutes:
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After shutdown:
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I periodically checked the ballast's temprature, and it got up to about 150ºF and stayed there. I forgot to use standoffs when mounting it to allow for airflow, but I'll do that on the final build.

You might notice that the setting changed between the early and later pictures. I had the bulb in the dining room area, where it was lighting up the living room too. After a couple hours, my eyes started feeling tired, like I'd been out in the sun all day without my sunglasses. It may have been a coincidence or my imagination, but I moved the bulb into the laundry room to finish the burn-in. Luckily, I had it on a long extension cord from the laundry room, so it was easy to move without having to turn it off.

Yep, those bare bulbs will give you eyestrain fer shur! I wore sunglasses to test mine.

Looks like you're making some nice progress. Slow and steady.

Have you decided upon the final format of things yet? Where's the fold, etc.?

Edit: Check this after-triplet fold. You must look at the first two pages. Just thought maybe it might interest you.

I just noticed this morning that DarkMeat found his focusing problem, so that makes me feel good about sticking with a "mirror after the triplet" design. It should make for a good, small footprint, especially with the widescreen panel.

I think my biggest current design challenges are cooling, light box, and focusing mechanism.

quote name='ShamanDave' date='Jun 1 2006, 12:44 PM' post='144563']
I just noticed this morning that DarkMeat found his focusing problem, so that makes me feel good about sticking with a "mirror after the triplet" design. It should make for a good, small footprint, especially with the widescreen panel.

I think my biggest current design challenges are cooling, light box, and focusing mechanism.
[/quote]

Just remember not to overtighten the clips on the fs mirror it will cause tension and a slight double image. I had success with a 10x12" regular 1/8th thickness mirror as well this would give you an even shorter vertical pj just in case you are interested and regular mirror is only a few bucks.
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All depends on style and height. My box was built extra big just in case I upgraded to a 17 later so the size you are looking at is about the same or maybe even a bit smaller.

I think I've found the perfect cooling solution!

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I suppose it might be a little noisy...

All you have to do is set fan on the top of your open box, seal the top edges of the PJ to the fan's circumference and whooosh, that's one cool setup . I thought I was going overkill.

Dave

I just did the scariest part of the build so far. I cut my fresnels down to size. I don't have any pictures to go with it. I just wanted to post about it to reccommend to anyone who's about to take this step that they follow Remdaddy's procedure for cutting fresnels. It worked perfectly. It's still scary when the plastic snaps, and you're not certain that it broke in the right place for just a moment. It worked flawlessly, though. Luckily, I only had to make two cuts on each fresnel because I'm keeping the 406mm dimension the same for the width. I just hope I made my calculations for the fresnel size right. I tried to err on the "too large" size, since I'm going unsplit and the light pyramid is getting smaller as it gets to the LCD.

Yesterday, I built a frame for my fresnels.
Well... I cut and slotted the plywood pieces. They looked pretty good until I tried to drill some holes between the slots for cooling, and it pretty much shredded the wood between the slots when the bit dug in. I made a replacement for the piece I shredded, and now I'm faced with a decision: leave the frame as-is with no air running between the fresnels, or find another way to circulate cooling air between the fresnels.

I'm looking for informed opinions. If I bring in cool outside air from both sides just below the fresnels, do I really need cooling air to run between the fresnels?

I don't think you would need it from both sides but if you are doing and unsplit design cooling the underside of your lowest fesnel should be enough. When placed together they with transfer heat from conduction so cooling one will do the same for the other. I've been able to keep my temps down on my lcd by just having an airflow across the top of it seems to work.

Did you decide to stay with the fs mirror above your triplet? It's going to make it pretty tall but then again you wouldn't have to worry about keystone correction.

The reason I wanted to have air coming in from both sides is that I remember seeing a few PJ's that developed a "bubble" of hot air on the side opposite the cool air intake, but it may be overkill.

I'm still sticking with my "mirror last" design. I'm actually going to place the mirror on the inside of the hinged lid, so I can close it when it's not in use to keep it neat looking and keep dust out. It'll be tall, but the footprint should only be about 15"x20".

I dropped a wad of cash last night at the local Apple Store and got a Core Duo Mac Mini to use as an HTPC. These new Intel based Minis have built in optical audio in and out jacks, so it hooked right up to my receiver and it recognized my 32" JVC Hi-Def TV through the DVI cable and set itself to 720p automatically. It'll run 1080i also. We watched part of The Italian Job on it, and it looked excellent. Now I really have to get to work on the PJ.

No such thing as overkill!
Hope it was the original Italian job???
Cheers P

I am unashamed of enjoying the remake of The Italian Job.
I've never seen the original, though, so I just put it in my Netflix queue.

Anything happening with your 17" PJ since June?

Bob

Ugh... Has it really been that long since I added anything here?

It's been a busy summer. Between work, summer family stuff, vacation, and dance lessons (yes, my girlfriend and have been taking Swing and Lindy Hop lessons, and I highly reccommend them. It's a hell of a lot of fun.), I haven't had a lot of time to build.

I did decide that I was going to spend Labor Day weekend working on the projector, which meant that I ended up having about 5 hours out of the weekend to work on it. I got the light box mostly built, and I have most of the design solidified in my mind.

I'll try to get some pictures of the light box up soon.

Here's my light box.

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The reflector is sitting in a 2 3/4" cutout in the box, and I haven't crafted a hold-down system for it yet. The screws for the mogul base are in a slot for vertical adjustment. There will be a plate sitting on top of the box with a tempered glass window from a halogen shop light in it. The holes in the bottom of the box will line up with holes in the top plate, and threaded rods will go through both, and then up to a piece of MDF, which will also have matching holes for the rods and a cutout matching the window in the box.

I'll post a diagram later.

Seeing everyone getting back to work on their PJs has inspired me, and I've just remembered something that has helped me set a goal for my PJ.

A year or two ago, I came up with a great Halloween idea. My house's front window is good sized and has roughly the right aspect ratio to be a wide screen. I figured if I cover it with butcher paper (or a sheet), I could project onto it from the inside and have it visible from the outside. So while trick-or-treaters are coming on Hallwoween, I want to show Young Frankenstein on the front window.

Of course, when I came up with the idea, I didn't have a projector, and I still don't, so I'll have to finish mine before the end of the month.

Nice box SD.

was the light box somthing you bought pre made, if it was what is it?

The light box is made out of metal from an old computer case, which I cut using tin snips, a jigsaw with a metal cutting blade, and a nibbler. I bent the two end flaps up with an 18" sheet metal brake from harbor freight, but then the flaps were in the way of the brake when I went to bend the other two sides, so I had to do them by hand.

What a GREAT Idea!!
And a way coolness factor.
Even if you don't finish the PJ by then, you need to borrow a projector and do it anyway.

"Honey!!!...look at this!!. The Guy down the street has got Young Frankenstein playing in his window.. we never do anything cool like that"

It would inspire for years to come.

So I didn't get to spend any measurable time on my projector in October, and my idea will have to wait for next Halloween.

I had to spend time on stuff like replacing both front axles and the left front wheel bearing in my Subaru.
That wouldn't be so bad, but it got stolen on Saturday night and hasn't been recovered yet. :angry2:

I think it'll probably be found up a logging road, completely trashed. I just hope I can convince the insurance company how much it was actually worth with all the work I put into it, stereo, etc.

Thats a bummer man! But wait, which subi, the red or the blue. Hope you find it!

Mine's the old Loyale in front. I wish I could afford a WRX wagon like the red one. The red one's not in the background completely by coincidence, though. I'm one of those Subaru fanatics who will park next to another Subaru when given a choice of spots. At least I'm not one of the severe Subaru fanatics who owns several project cars and several parts cars.