Not sure. I got lucky and found this on ebay and only paid less than 20 for it.

Sorry Traynor. I suggest you check some of the popular bulb shops for this. I'm pretty interested in that bulb GadgetSmith suggested thats made by EYE. The bulb enclosure is more streamlined like the Ushio but fatter. Not sure on the arc length though also not sure when these babies will get out on stores too.

http://www.eyelighting.com/ss/EQS-N-52-84-00029.pdf

I would not jump to any conciliation about the CDM v the HQI. The HQI is still new it will warm up a lot in the first 10 hours or so. I would guess that all the green push will go away soon.

The CDM is supposes to be vary stable but I bet it will warm up some too. At 500 watts (that what your power level should be with the 55uf cap) It maybe a little too warm for some taste around 3500k after break-in, but the high CRI and a slight RGB adjustment and it may be fine.

Sim: You now can answer the which lamp is brighter question too. Can you change lamps and keep the arc tube in almost the exact same place?
The smaler arc will be a advantage but the 40mm HQI might make more lumens( edit to earler post the HQI made 36000 lumens but that is the new 36mm arc tube yours is longer and that should mean it will have a higher lumens )

ummm Sim, I want to see how plots work with a pro lens set,,, I cant give you lumens measure as I haven't and wont at this stage, buy a meter, as I dont deem it needed..

boy Sim, I'd have to say its a draw oon colors anyway, the one looks a bit pink with the clouds, but another shot looks much more natural with the added red...but like you I think I prefer it a little bluish as opposed to a little reddish

Hey mikyd, well this is my view on the difference from either bulb. I find the colors brought by the CDM in movies acceptable but when viewing a white screen such as websurfing perhaps I then prefer the blue from the HQI.

Interesting stuff... but, wait... no lux readings !! ... if you can, i'd love to see some lux readings, even if the setups aren't the same, i'd like to see what your getting... mostly i'm interested in the shape of the arc chamber and it's effects. In that side by side comparison, the ceramic arcs are much more narrow, although in this lamp the arc lengths are about the same; but it looks as thought there is much more visible arc with the ceramic.

As far as color temp... Sim, you stated the Osram 6500 ? ... do you mean 5600K ? I know the Osram HQI-TS lamps that I have are rated for 5200-5600K depending on the ballast used. My first lamp was the Ushio (5200K), then went to the EYE BT-28/HOR (4200K). I really missed the blue of the 5200K temp, but got used to it... then I went to the 6500K... boy was that blue ! ... but guess what... after running it a while it doesn't seem so blue anymore... I just enjoy it. So these things are certainly subjective. I think both images look good, but my preference is likely somewhere in the middle (no i'm not trying to be difficult )

It will be interesting to see what the shorter arc on the EYE lamp does for us. I think it will be good. Especially to compare to the ceramic lamp you have now with the 32mm arc.

elken, lux measurements might not be deemed necessary by you, but it would be a benefit to all of us to help better correlate all your graphs and such to a standard that everyone else is using (like vignetting/ROX)... and to quantify your claims that one setup is so much brighter than another... your resistance to lux meters is futile... you will be assimilated !

cheers,
gs

well here is some processing for ya all to chew on

this is Dazzlers setup with pro lens,, nil reflector,, and this is the green portion only AND FULL 4:3

you tell me what the readings say about that,,, and the vignetting value as per say...

now about colour temps,, they are meaningless,,, unless of coure you have a lamp that has giant orange peaks,,, which will throw off colour

what is important is that tthe required red and blue are almost at eqaul intensity levels,, which most lamps dont have,, the greeen is always there, with most lamps,,,, and also depending on which lamp you use, you MUST readjust the greyscale, with a greysacle bar for correct greys,, or else you will have a bluish or redish image,,, I fear a lot of us are not doing these adjsutments at panel level, before doing test pics,,

sorry if I sound terse,ie,,, but it all comes down to correct adjustment before evalutaion,,,

elken: Can you post the picture from which you did that DAZZling plot from into the post with it? Just curious.

ok here it is
Click to view attachment

That is a screenshot of a solid color magenta screen with the color inverted to green from my pgen program.
The black alignment circles for lux measurements are barely visible. But your graph seems to make it look better
than what my eye sees.

Click to view attachment

ok to be fair here are the whole sequence of plots

green
red
blue

this shows the vignetting,, if you will and the intensities, or emissions value differences at screen after lamp to thru panel CF filters,,, this is the final result,, and shows what needs adjusting correctly

aka the green needs more value, and the blue,, in panel adjsutments, then they will be in some balance,,, oh of course best to set all the window s settings to default first too.. so gamma and etc etc are at base levels, because one can ended twisted around so much, that life becomes a chore to sort out heheheheh

Click to view attachment

Hey GS, here ya go lumen hunter including you too mikyd

102 108 87
126 153 120
92 119 106

1013/9 = 112.55 average

@3.01sq/meters = 338.77 ...........wait....I think I wet myself.

I'm kinda surprised right now! I brought the lightbox closer based on how the spread looked with the LCD off (by eyeball). Now, things are still kinda loose mainly the distance from lightbox to fresnel has not been properly dialed but I didn't expect this much brightness. I suppose the thinner arc and I guess overdriving the lamp ala Arizonavideo plus precondenser is proving more than I had anticipated.

You now have me confused as to what the Osram is actually in color temp. The advertisement on ebay (where I bought mine) states it is a 6500k. The box it came with states: M86 PY-R 360/D HQI-TS 400 W/D, see pic below. Maybe you might have a better chance googling this Osram then I had.

As far has getting used to the color difference, well, just by seeing the increased lumens above I'm already sold on this bulb despite whether it's pink, red, blue or otherwise.

And Elken I'm with GS on this, I provide as much information to everyone and anyone on anything they're curious about. Just like you I let the pics, graphs AND NUMBERS speak for themselves and let them decide what they expect from their builds. So, aSIMUL8 with us...pleeeezzzzzzzzz

Thats not a graph,, that is image anal.ysis,,

Dazzler simply photographed a green screen,,, the source of green is not a matter from where it came,, I just asked for a green, as with red and blue too

Somewhere's I read that the lamp was a 5200K...but overdriven who really knows.....I plan on trying mine out at 400W and see what I think.

What I was trying to say was your image analysis shows very little variation in the light intensity but what I see in the green image appears
to be about 25% darker in the corners as compared to the center.

Obviously we're not getting the "whole picture" here - eh?

Based on the way the axes are labelled one would be led to believe the Z (vertical) axis is intensity or brightness. Is that the case elken?

The white text makes some sense as it appears in all three plots but at lower levels? Doesn't that seem odd? Perhaps not I suppose. Camera white balance would affect relative color intensity - wouldn't it?

The black circles are only really prevalent in the blue plot.

Awwrrr . . . whadoIknow? Just confusing myself again.

Here's what I get when I take that green screen image above and shut down all but the green layer using FotoSlop. Don't look like it jives with elken's anal...ysis. Of course, I could be introducing some crazy artifacts just by the way I am processing the image file.

Edit: Note I cropped the very edge of the image off.

Click to view attachment

Sorry AV if I missed your post. Well this is what I plan to do. I'll take some readings without the precond and with the lightbox sitting out of the pj and measure both at standard distance. My lightbox is not adjustable to accomodate the same distance to precon seeing the Philips has a fatter bulb. I'll do this without a reflector as well to keep it equal.

Yes we would think that a longer arc might be brighter but I'm guessing it has to do with the arc chamber itself as far as how close it is surrounding the arc and what it's made of. But what do I know, I'm just a backyard experimenter here.

Sim,

You and I bought the same HQI bulbs from the same seller on ebay... P&M Lighting in good old Ferndale Michigan. Anyway, if you look at the back of the bulb box you will notice the date of 1986. Yikes! That means you have an older Osram HQI bulb. Whereas anyone else has the newer styled Osram HQI bulb. The best way to tell the difference is to look at the arc chamber. Yours has a straight chamber, where as the new version, that ArizonaVideo has, has a curved chamber. Therefore that is why your color temp is 6500m and everyone else is finding color temp ratings of 5200 or 5400.

The Older HQI Version (Yours)
Click to view attachment

The Newer HQI Version (ArizonaVideo)
Click to view attachment

Cheers!

Fulcrum

Perhaps your right, but I like to see the comparison myself. Does anyone know of the picture that iwataprojector is thinking about?

Fulcrum

Sim,

What did you do? Did you switch the pictures, so that in reality the Osram is the warm looking one?

Fulcrum

Yeah, you got me. The bulbs I use are actually from my triple A batterie maglight and a blueish immitting LED door finder from my keychain. But seriously, if things go well I may have a bulb like AV's to compare. In the meantime, I'm pretty blown by this Philips.

Well, it was a finding nemo picture.......

iwantaprojector

The lux readings as I was thinking of them would need to be taken at the time of the screenshot, so for that particlar post, I don't know. (the graph is only for the green channel and i'm not sure of the lux readings at the time) The 3D waterfall charts you get from your analysis would need to be prepared for the white screen only, and then I could compare the lux readings to the shape of the graph... just to give us an idea of what X% vignetting looks like in your analysis. What I can do, to help me better understand, is produce a white screen photo of my setup with lux readings for a 330 and 220 setup. You can analyze the data and produce some charts of these, then I will know what a white screen looks like for an ~45% vignetting and ~70% vignetting... then when I look at other graphs that you post, they will tell me something about vignetting.

I have to disagree with you. The color temperature of the lamp is still a decent catagorization for lamps, and this has been shown over and over... lower color temp lamps (~4000K) produce warmer colors than the higher temp lamps (~6500K). Even with Sim's latest pics you can see he's gone from a blue to red push even using the CDM lamp. Color temp coupled with the lamps CRI tells us something about the lamps spectrum for these MH lamps, BUT, looking at the spectrum is still the best method for choosing a lamp... and comparing to the LCD CF's should give us a good idea on how it should perform.

Have you adjusted the RGB and/or gamma levels on your LCD (or in the software) prior to taking pics ? I would think that we want everything at "factory default" and make no adjustments to LCD RGB levels (RG&B all 100%), and also no adjustments to software so we can evaluate the lamp. I guess this is why you have the white screen w/ the LCD off ? ... but screenshots are taken with a properly calibrated screen ? At the moment I purposefully don't adjust any settings before taking readings or screenshots. This is to see what the "bare lamp" is able to produce color wise. In the end, yes, we can adjust RGB levels to get the proper grey level as this is what needs to be done for proper tuning, but making these adjustments will also reduce lumen levels, esp. we adjusting the LCD panels RGB levels... the better the lamp is matched to the LCD CF's the less adjustments would be necessary to get the correct grey level. IMHO.

actually, no, you don't sound terse at all, this is a good discussion.

I'll try to get some white screen pics with LCD off with both a 220 and 330 fresnel setup (varying vignetting %'s) then you can post the results from your analysis.

cheers,
gs

OK, did you find the link?

no not yet, I spent like 20 minutes last night scouring the forums...........don't remember who it was.
I'll try again later.

I FOUND IT! It was scubasteves projector. Take a look at his comparison shots of 4000k and 6500k bulbs.....
There should be a thread on different color temperature bulbs as well...Look
the 4000k in this picture looks better too.

http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s...=8051&st=60

Fulcrum, u posted in this thread but don't remember the pic comparison.

Ah yes, I remember that comparison shot now. Good researching there iwantaprojector

LOL , That was back when I first began learning about color temps; I had no way to judge anything (Now I know that the "washed out" look is the preference ). I never received a good answer to my question in the thread, but ArizonaVideo sent me a PM and let me know about the rating.(edit: I don't know what ArizonaVideo's preference is, but he did tell me that "TV white screen in not white but blue around 5200k. Movie film is more white around 5000k.")

Anyway, thanks for the link!

Cheers!

Fulcrum

One thing I'm glad to have learned from Sim's plog is that as a bulb ages, its color temperature drops.

Cheers!

Fulcrum

I'm pretty sure I saw that bulb on Ebay, the one you have right now, probably for the best that I forgot to bid on it. Ah, oh well, still got these two guys http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...N%3AIT&rd=1


These Philips Ceramic arc bulbs are crap compared to the EYE 250/400w versions. The EYE's Cera Arcs are usable with the pro reflector, have a 3 times smaller arc then the Philips 400w Cera->44mm->EYE's 15mm 400w Arc.

Philips ED-18->57mm Width Max, EYE's T-15->48mm.

These Philips Ceramics are a whisper in the dark compared to whats coming with the EYEs.

EDIT: 400w EYE bulb unconfirmed arc length. 250w EYE is 15mm.

Interesting Litherish, will you be experimenting with the Philips 250w from ebay?

Also, where did you get the dimensions of the arc for the EYE's Cera 400w, can you post it? I'd appreciate it.

As soon as I get an HPS 250w ballast I'll do some testing and what not, and when the bulbs come in of course, I just won the auction last night.

As to the 400w having a 15mm arc, I meant the 250w has a 15mm arc, I got mixed up its been a while since I looked at everything, I don't know the 400w arc length, but the 250w arc is certain. Confirmed by a sale executive I emailed back in March. The 15mm arc in the 250w EYE bulb is still a lot better then the Philips 250w which is 38mm. 2.5 times better. Here is an email I had confirming it:

Me:
Hello Yoshiyuki,
Thanks for the quick response, I do not need it immediately. Regarding the 250w Ceramic Arc bulb, on the site it lists a 15mm arc, is this the actual arc length?

Them:
Hello Trevor,

Thank you for your message.

Yes. It is actual arc length.
What kind application are you considering to use the lamp?
We would appreciate it if you could let us know where you are located at along with your company name and phone number for our reference.

Thank you.

Yoshiyuki Maeda
Product Marketing Manager / Market Segment Specialist
EYE Lighting International of North America, Inc.
A Subsidiary of Iwasaki Electric Co., Ltd.
www.eyelighting.com
yoshi.maeda@eyelighting.com
Phone # 440-392-3625
Fax # 440-350-7041
--------------------------
After that we e-mailed a few more times and he listed some suppliers near me to contact. I contacted all of them, none had any idea about an EYE Ceramic Arc 250w, or the 400w, they thought I was on crack...

I haven't lost touch with EYE though, their latest prediction is that the 250w/400w versions will be coming out in the 3-4 quarter of 2006. So pretty soon, we should have some amazing light bulbs that shame all the others .

If anyone wants to try some lighting suppliers in your area just go to eyelighting.com and look for them under the How To Buy tab, supposedly the 250w Ceramic version is available. But its not on any internet stores I've seen or any lighting suppliers near me... so good luck!

Just a little added entertainment for now. With Mydiazclan's help I was able to get my son's old xbox to work with the vdigi transcoder I have. Only had Splinter Cell and I guess I'll be stocking up with other swell games for the kiddies to play with when they come around. Once again, thanks Mydiazclan.

Any chance we can get some pics of the actual PJ?

I just stumbled in on this thread so I'm not sure what's going on. I see a double ended lamp with a large looking arc, a 7" lcd, a bunch of precondensors and some bigass looking lenses and whatnot. Where'd you get the big lenses and can get some from somewhere? What are the benefits of using them instead of fresnels?

So, in other words.. whats going on!!? If you don't mind. Other wise, I'll have to watch this thread and maybe come back to reading all 30 pages sometime next year because I never really do anything on my to do list.

So.........thought I'd try my hand at a little hdtv tuning. I scored a used myhd mdp120 tuner card over at ebay complete with it's original remote. The best setting I could get this to work with my 15" panel was at 1360x768p, although I don't understand how since the panel is of course natively 1024x768. Still, I'm not quite satisfied with this resolution on projection. Kinda blotchy at full aspect but it is great to watch tv on such a huge screen (60"x80"). It seems I can also input anything into this by composite and svideo so adding the first gen xbox to my computer was quite interesting at 1080i. Since I'm not paying for any HDef signal over cable right now I don't think I picked up any over the air unless I didn't know about it, also since I don't have a antenae attached to it yet. Guess that will be the next DIY part of this venture.

Anyways, here are some pics......excuse the mess

Hey sim, great plogs/threads and as always great reads..

I have a questions about your philips 400w ceramic. What is your review on that bulb and does it work w/ the pro reflector? Should i get the philips over the ushio s400dd?

Btw, my other option would be the osram but i was not too excited about the 6500k blue factor it was producing in the pics. Did the lamp warm up (less blue/green)?

Thx

Good Eats!
Alton Brown taught me to cook

wow, really bright images. what lamp did you end up using? cheers

Currently it's just the Ushio S400dd with a S51 core ballast. The capacitor is a 55uf from the standard 48uf so it's overdriven. The brightness however is not done alone by an overdriven ballast but other factors such as:

1. The bulb is vertically positioned, meaning standing up rather than laying down. I've doubled my brightness while experimenting with the axis of the bulb while using the precondenser. See here : http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?s...c=9656&st=0 Since the bulb is standing up the length of the arc chamber is twisted 90 degrees so that the sides of the arc illumuninates more towards the left and right sides of the LCD rather than top and bottom of the panel. This provides better coverage of a 15" panel and better vignetting (less corner dimness).

2. My reflector is a large 5" dia soup ladle that has been notched to totally house the arc itself. Meaning the sides of the arc is not exposed and is surrounded by the ladle. Polished of course

3. I'm using a large condenser lens rather close to the bulb. I believe its a 5 inch diameter lens with 6 or 7 inches focal length.

4. I'm using Lumen Lab's standard 317mm focal fresnel for the collimating rear lens. For the collector I'm using a 550mm from 3dlens.com. The triplet is an 18" besseler opaque lens or a buhl.

With a 15" LCD right?

Yes, it's a 15 inch for now. I've obtained a 17 inch over the months in mind for a revamp. Hopefully, I'll acheive the same brightness by redesigning the lightbox as well. It is of course a much larger panel. A much smaller lcd like a 10.6" or smaller would be the most ideal for a much brighter projection.

BTW, I forgot to add that a HighPower Dalite with a 2.8 gain makes a hell of difference but very limited or equivalent to a standard screen when it comes to the viewing cone.

It seems if you have the nipple part of the arc facing the lcd??? Did you have any problems with this? I guess my main question is.... Is it better to have the bulb how you have shown with the skinner part shooting toward the lcd or with the wider part of the arc facing the lcd. If you understand what I am saying. I think if I rotate the bulb 45 degrees this could make the light sorce more of a point or at least smaller? What do you think.

Hmmmm . . . has anyone tried aiming their nipple to get rid of the dogged 575HMI hot spot methinks whilst reading this . . .

hehe, gotta mark this date when this plog was revived from the dead.

sdub, based now on my experience with shifting the 400w's 'nipple' and/or the 'arc chamber support rod' up, down, sideways or around I'd have to say that just having neither of them in the way of the arc itself or the it's reflection is always the best. But of course this isn't the case with most bulbs as I would guess, so, basically your going to have to experiment with the 'nipple' and the 'rod's' position until your satisfied with the projected image. And projected image I mean with the the LCD not in place, just a white screen. I would say this though, and I'll put my reputation on it....and I know Durachko going to chime in on what it's worth ...having the 400w bulb's longer arc is better having positioned 90 degrees in relation to the LCD's length then having both paralleled with each other for better corner coverage.

Took a couple of times reading that to understand what you were saying. Yes I knew you were all about that and I tried to do that but when you have hack job skills in woodworking like me things never seem to work out. I am still fighting with the contoller board mounts.

this give me an idea I might just try to attach my bulb upside down 90 degrees and see what happens with my corner focus